i liked that the other AP where up to lvl 20... how come this one will only be until lvl 15?
just wondering...
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I think it has to with the fact, that the first RotR-AP is planned to introduce the players into Varisia's Material Plane, so there is no CR2x-Demonlord needed. It has been said that the level requirements will vary from one AP to the next so I'd guess that those higher level regions will be covered in later APs
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Somewhere around here it was said that the adventure paths would be as long as they need to be in order to complete the "mission." 15 is all Rise of the Runelords takes.
If you are considering only 6 books per path, 12-18 is probably all you can get without sacraficing thoroughness (which Paizo would never do).
I'm actually very happy about this. In my personal experience games (and especially NPCs) get harder to control once you get over level 12, and we tend to get a lot of the same creatures in the higher level, creatures that don't necessarily excite me all that much. For me AP could even be limited to level 12, but 15 will do nicely. Nothing prevents you from adding a couple more if you want to take your players to 20 or beyond.
I wholeheartedly applaud the choice to make an interesting, deep fifteen level path instead of a twenty level grind with so many ways to break the plot that a short story would be a better medium.
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I think it's pretty cool that you can finish the adventure path and still have 5 levels of progression to play with to tie up loose ends, let the players find their own direction in the world, explore places they may have missed, etc. Rhetrospectively, the idea of maxing out at level 20 the day you kill the Big Bad Evil Guy of the game, and then having no where else to go, seems kind of limiting.
I feel that the game really breaks down when you get into epic levels, but if you finish your great heroic campaign at level 15 and want to enjoy your fame and status while still adventuring and seeing new lands before retiring, your DM has plenty of flexibility to keep challenging you.
I've only reached the upper levels recently, as we're finishing up the Age of Worms, but I'm utterly unenchanted with anything 15+. The AP has turned into a rather boring slog at this point. I mean, characters are so powerful at that level, they had to throw Dragotha at them, and Dragotha is so nasty, they had to give the PCs the fragments of you know who in order for them to have a chance against Dragotha (which means when my players face off against him in our next session, Dragotha will go down like a six round chump).
Most of my players' PCs become NPCs between 15th and 20th level, assuming they live that long. By that time, everyone's ready for something new. As a player, I enjoy the mid-level range the best. You're powerful enough not to die because someone sneezes on you, but low-enough level that your character sheet doesn't get in the way.
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Well it's possible they may make paths of varying levels in the future. Maybe one will be from 6-20, or 2-18. Who knows?
That's 5 levels to put in player-specific plot arcs that won't throw off the progression of the rest of the AP. Plus, you don't need to be 20th level to have become a famous world-altering figure, especially in a new world where there are presumably not a ton of famous known NPCs running around. Additionally, it does give your players more of a feeling that they can keep going, rather than having "beaten the game" and immediately ditching for a new one.
Kudos, Paizo!
Well it's possible they may make paths of varying levels in the future. Maybe one will be from 6-20, or 2-18. Who knows?
Or even a 1-8 [skip ahead to] 15-20. The players get to spend levels 8-15 thinking they'd defeated the baddy and going about their business only to find out that he's back and worse than they thought.
Just for the sake of argument.
A response from one of the Paizo staff to a query from one of the posters on the ENWorld message boards:
Originally Posted by James Jacobs
"We've heard a lot from fans of the previous Adventure Paths that things kind of get to be too much in the last few adventures. So Rise of the Runelords is sort of an experiment as far as that goes. We're certainly leaving a lot open for sequels or expansions, although the 1st-15th level arc we have for this Adventure Path is complete and self-contained. It won't feel like it's missing much.
But as for adventure paths that go from 1st to 20th level? Pathfinder will CERTAINLY feature adventures that cover that range sooner or later"
Followed by:
Originally Posted by James Jacobs
"Pathfider's first Adventure Path goes from level 1 to level 15 or 16. That's just one Adventure Path; we'll be doing a new one every six months, and it'll run from whatever level range the campaign's story requires. Some might even start at levels higher than 1st. Some might end at level 10. Some might go epic. I'm aware that high-level adventures are quite popular in some circles, and I have no intention of abandoning them, but the fact remains that low and mid level adventures are the most popular ranges to play the game at. That's the main reason Runelords is stopping at level 15.
That said... it also sets up all manner of possible sequels. The possibility of a "Rise of the Runelords II" adventure path is certainly out there!"
I have to agree with the whole 'ending at 15th level' thing; room to grow is never a bad idea. A buddy of mine finished running 'Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil' last winter - a two year undertaking that put us through numerous side quests on the way and set things up for a massive war between Furyundoy & allies and Iuz. When we finished the module we were 16th level. We took a break to play some Spycraft, but are coming back to the campaign in three weeks to begin our final story arc (and from all our DM has said, it looks like it will be a blast). If we had been 19th or 20th level at the end of the module, I think he would have been too intimidated by the Epic rules to even try running the last story arc.
I'm not bashing the previous APs which run until 20th level. I'm currently hosting an Age of Worms game that, barring external circumstances, will successfully reach its conclusion some day, and I'm playing in Savage Tide, which has been a blast so far. But stopping at 15th level instead of 20th is not a bad idea, especially if it stops naturally.
Well, I'll be honest with you guys. Pathfinder is larger, heavier, and has more stuff in it. Don't think for a minute that if the last adventure starts at level 15, that if you're all pure dungeon crawlers that you won't be close to level 20 by the end of it.
Creative Director
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Well, I'll be honest with you guys. Pathfinder is larger, heavier, and has more stuff in it. Don't think for a minute that if the last adventure starts at level 15, that if you're all pure dungeon crawlers that you won't be close to level 20 by the end of it.
Also... stopping at 15th level doesn't mean you're getting less material. I did the math elsewhere, but it basically breaks down like this:
Dungeon Adventure Path + Support material in Dragon = about 450 pages
Pathfinder Adventure Path = about 575 pages
And don't forget, you'll be getting a Pathfinder adventure path twice as fast (as in over the course of half a year rather than a year).
I'm happy with the idea of ending at 15th level instead of 20. The adventure should end when it feels complete.
Anyhow, it's nice to have some flexibility, and since were getting an AP every 6 months instead of every 15, being able to get through them quicker if we get excited about the next one could be cool.
I'm happy with the idea of ending at 15th level instead of 20.
Ditto. And if I can keep the fact that it ends at level 15 from my players, they will actually be Surprised when the BBEG shows up, instead of realizing it's inevitable. Boss fights at level 20 telegraph themselves.
I like the fact that the path will wind up around 15th level. As much as I'm digging running AoW, my party is level 12 and it's really slowing down. there's a variety of factors, but one of them is just the part that, in order to run higher level adventures, the group has to be more on the ball about the rules than a lower level group.
Ending aorund level 15 will prevent the psychotic headaches I forsee in my future when it comes to dealing with nasty spells like Time Stop.
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Ending aorund level 15 will prevent the psychotic headaches I forsee in my future when it comes to dealing with nasty spells like Time Stop.Time stop is not complicated nor too dangerous. It just gives the caster more time to buff himself and that's it :)
Surronding your enemy with earth or air elementals isn't exactly a buff. I don't think it's too unreasonable though.
Now that teleport without error remains within your character's light cone until level 11,170 or so, my main complaint about the 7th-9th level spells is that prismatic sphere doesn't block teleportation, according to WOTC customer support.
Now that teleport without error remains within your character's light cone until level 11,170 or so,
Huh?
Anyway, I like mid-combat Time Stops. Buff, cast Heal, summon some mooks, all while moving around the battlefield. Great part of doing it with Villians is that short of high spellcraft checks, the PCs only see a dimension door effect, as the bad gy flits across the battlefield.