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Hi folks:
You may or may not have noticed that recent Maps of Mystery have been connectable to one another to form one long map. This trend continues through a series of five maps, starting with the Woodland Shrine in issue 142, and "ending" with a Drow Outpost in 146. After that I decided to switch gears and revisit the "Forsaken Rift" (issue 136) to explore another location identified on that map, but I left the option open to continue the current series of linked maps if readers are interested in going deeper.
So...my question to you is: Do you want to see more Maps of Mystery that connect to previous installments, or do you prefer maps that have no relationship with anything else?
It goes without saying, in my opinion, that a good Map of Mystery should stand on its own and feel complete and useful by itself, so I don't expect you'll ever see Maps of Mystery that *require* other maps. But I do enjoy building relationships between different maps and I'm curious if the readership of Dungeon finds that useful, or cumbersome?
What kind of maps are most useful or interesting to you folks?
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I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say that Christopher West maps are what we want.
As long as they are yours Mr. West, I am thrilled to have them.
Now that your tookus is full of sunshine....I have always had a soft spot for towns and surrounding environs. They always are welcome. I loved the one that had several small towns in a glacial rift.
I will take whatever you make and be happy with it. They all inspire creativity and evoke a sense of curiosity.
So...as long as they have "by: Christopher West" along the bottom of them, I am happy.
FH (a little fan-boyish)
Your maps are awesome. I did start that "Maps of Mystery Kick Ass" thread a while back.
I've noticed that the maps are connected and that's certainly cool, but they don't need to be, necessarily. I think a good mix of dungeon, city, wildernis, weird location in a rotation is great. I've used many maps of mystery, but I've never connected them. They are designed to plug gaps or fill in details when the PCs go left, so connectivity is not something I need.
Since they're plug and play anyway, the connectivity doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
However, if for the sake of connecting them to a theme, you're finding yourself forced down a certain road of what kind of map to draw, I would prefer unconnected maps.
If you offered a map of the floor of a taxicab, I'd have my players drawing up cockroach PCs the next day so we could set an adventure there. Whatever you're inspired to create, I'll be inspired to play.
Beyond that, I prefer entirely new places as often as possible. Life is short. I want to go to as many thrilling, exotic places as I can!
Thanks for all the inspiration!
So...my question to you is: Do you want to see more Maps of Mystery that connect to previous installments, or do you prefer maps that have no relationship with anything else?
I like the connected maps. It gives me more options, rather than less, to expand the size of an area of exploration, and doesn't hurt anything.
Can I make a request? When you're done with this series, could you get Paizo to bundle the linked maps into a single, standalone PDF?
Thanks,
--Eric
I like the connectivity. It inspires me to think more about what comes next. Also, since the Maps of Mystery are so popular (because they're so darn cool) let me pipe up and ask for a two page spread now and then.
I have no opinion on the connected or not issue, but I would like to see some maps that a little more on the generic-side of things.: a map you can use on the spur of the moment for something.
Woodland Shrine is a good example of this. If the PCs are traveling through a forest and get a wandering monster, this is a great map to pull out for the battle.
Anceint Fortress works pretty well also. Toss a couple of monsters in there and you're good to go.
Forgotten Tombs doesn't have much use to me. That map really needs an adventure to go with it and I get Dungeon because I don't have time to put together my own adventures. It's a nice map, just not much utility for me.
Other ideas in this line: A small lakeside beach where the PCs make camp, a block of a fantasy town, a small village, a noble's home, a bridge over a chasm/river, a city gate, a hermit's cottage.
I'd love to see a series of 2-5 wilderness battlemaps for random encounters.
I am a big fan of your style of map-making. Keep it up!
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Both!
The connected maps are great, and will almost certainly provide the lanscape for a custom campaign sometime in the future.
But to echo the previous poster, maps that serve for generic side encounters are also wonderfully helpful. In short, I think you should go with whatever inspires you most at the time. They're always going to come out best anyway. Continue with the connected map thing when that seems right, and hit us with some left-field stuff when it suits your fancy.
Just keep 'em coming. No more Dungeon issues without a map of mystery!!!!
I like both kinds, because I can build a plot around multiple maps, and when I need a quick segue or side trek, the stand-alones are good too.
I will agree with Mr. Boyd up there and say "Please-and-thank-you, pretty-please-Paizo, put the 'multiples' into a PDF."
I put in my vote for alternating between serial maps and stand-alone maps.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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If you offered a map of the floor of a taxicab, I'd have my players drawing up cockroach PCs the next day so we could set an adventure there. Whatever you're inspired to create, I'll be inspired to play.
Agreed.
I think that even your connected maps stand on their own well enough that I feel like I'm getting something new. I particularly love the rift maps; when I first got that map I was inspired to write up a mini-campaign using it. Great stuff.
I recently purchased a bunch of Dungeon back issues and was supremely disappointed when not all of them contained a Map of Mystery.
But to your original question I like the linked series of maps.
I think you're absolutely fabulous Mr. West. I'm really happy that you are returning to the Forsaken Rift because its going to become a big part of my ice age campaign when the PCs reach about 15th-level or so (they are all currently at 11th-level).
Personally, I would like to hear your own vision of the Forsaken Rift. For instance, how it was formed and how the Drakebourn Sanctum came into existence. As for what maps of the Forsaken Rift I would like to see, I would love to see Dragonport, Kharadad, and Traevantahl done. Of course, I would appreciate everything you did.
Another thing I would like to see is for some of those big writers for Paizo (Nick Logue, Richard Pett, Greg V, Tito, and the like)have a go at writing adventures based on some of your brilliant maps. It would be just great!
I sound like such a suck!
By the way, I second Eric's notion. A PDF (or perhaps even printed) collection of your maps would be fan-tas-tic!
And if we haven't had too much AP already: A map of mystery that was generic but has some use in the Savage Tide would be great: A jungle setting, an Olman village, the Farshore docks area, a fort, a lagoon with waterfall.
All of those are maps we somewhat need for Savage Tide but that aren't in the mags. And they are flexible enough to have other uses.
How many more maps do you need before you publish that glorious, coffee-table sized, hard-cover book Northwest by West - The Complete Collection of Maps of Mystery?
I could write the introduction. "Christopher and I have a spiritual kinship tracing back many, many years. He makes astonishing maps. I get lost astonishingly easily. He visualizes imaginary worlds with such profound clarity that they seem altogether real and immediately familiar. I too have trouble separating the real from the imaginary." And so on.
Hi,
I noticed the maps were connected (picked up my Dungeon 145 at the local store yesterday).
I enjoy this part of Dungeon magazine very much and use mostly the Underdark maps to develop "random" encounters. I can't remember the exact reference but I remember using one with stone slabs across a triple-arm underdark river forming a whirlpool and a steep trail following a waterfall overlooked by a stone balcony my players never dare to explore :)) just before they entered Bhal Hamatung'n in SCAP. It did great for this otherwise brilliant adventure.
I also used one for a red dragon lair (with lava pools). I plan to use the mausoleum with a circular catacomb/temple in the middle for a city adventure I'm currently writing (sorry just can't remember the reference). This latter is also kind of connected as there is a path leading to a tavern cellar and another one to the city sewers.
To sum up : 1) your maps are useful and visually great 2) keep building connections as they ignite imagination (at least mine)if you use them and can easely be dropped if you don't.
It seems that not only the MOMs are connected, one of them is also connected to a non-MOM map from dungeon magazine. The Temple of Vecna map from the Core beliefs: Vecna article directly connects to the Ancien catacombs MOM. Was this the only one that did this?
I like the connected maps but in general I'd like to see as many different places as possible, from the top of the iceberg to the midst of the jungles (I'd LOVE to see an elephant graveyard by the way). Since these are hard to connect I'd like to vote for more variety instead of connected maps.
These are connected?!? Hah I missed it! I always simply found it inspiring to have a cavern with 'this way to drow outpost'. You never know when some magazine editor will create a whole series of adventures, spanning the course of a year, from character levels 1-20+, with lots of extra goodies like prestige classes, ecologies, planar allies and the like included, because when he was a kid some cartographer wrote 'this way to the lair of Dragotha, the undead dragon.' Talk about inspiration! Kudos!
I find the MoM from 145 particularly inspiring, BTW. Awesomeness.
Those are connected? I didn't even notice. My vote is for maps that are NOT CONNECTED. Why? Because it allows for more variety. If you have one map in a fiery zone chances are you won't make a connecting map to a frigid zone (unless it's some wacky Gygaxian dungeon). Dicsonnected maps allow for more variety, and the loose ends, as someone mentioned, are often great sources of inspiration!
Great work, btw.
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Great that you ask this here, Mr. West!!!
I don't care if they are connected, as long as they keep to be such quality maps! Your maps inspired me a couple of times, to come up with a fine little adventure fitted to one of your maps. I once started a thread where I asked what other people have "done" with MoM, but somwhow not that much response had been there...
Anyway, I have one question (and I feel like doing blasphemy here!): Would it be possible, to make some maps, especially if you have dungeons or buildings, with a somewhat lighter/brighter surrounding? Black seems always a bit too oppressive when I look at a map. Variations of brown are easier to look at and the maps normally look great as well!
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to critizice you, it's just an observation I've made...
Keep up the great work!!!!!!
Oh, and you once said something about a poster-sized MoM! Would be great to have such a thing as a free map in an issue of Dungeon!
Whoa, easy there, Fake Healer. That's a bit over the top for this board.
I do have a small issue with the MoM in 145....WHY THE F*CK IS THERE A GOD-D@MNED CARTOON GRAIL IN THE FRIGGIN CORNER! THAT IS A REALLY SCREWED UP THING TO DO TO AN OTHERWISE GREAT MAP! KEEP THE STUPID PROMOTIONAL CRAP OUT OF THE FRIGGIN' ARTWORK! DAMMIT!!!
FH
Gosh, read the rest of the magazine. There's a grail-related promotion in it. Go figure. And take a pill, dude..
Christopher,
I like the connection between some maps, although it is not necessary that you always do a series to make me happy. The maps are an inspiration to creating my own adventures, and I've even used one or two as replacements for maps assigned to published adventures. Instead of running a massive dungeon crawl on a one-page map, spreading the encounters over two or three maps is sometimes more satisfying (provides good stopping points, rest areas, etc.).
If you do some more above ground settlements or fortifications, some Asian or Middle Eastern flavor might be good. If you do a series influenced by the layout of a medieval city, Constantinople, Kiev, or Palermo all have cosmopolitan backgrounds that make them stand out compared to other large European urban centers.
Regardless of what your next projects are, thanks for all the great maps! I look forward to the next Map of Mystery.
~Paul
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I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say that Christopher West maps are what we want.
I think you've summed it up pretty well.
Connected or not doesn't matter to me. The only gripe I have with the connected maps is that I get very impatient waiting to see the other maps in the sequence!
I would, however be very happy to see a city map again.
Keep up the awesome work, Chris!
A three-issue "map arc" is cool. I think more than that might be a little much. I prefer variety, personally, but definitely see the advantages to connected maps.
So...my question to you is: Do you want to see more Maps of Mystery that connect to previous installments, or do you prefer maps that have no relationship with anything else?
Ironically, it was just a few days ago when I realized that these maps are all linked. Just for kicks, I got out my magazines and put them together -- pretty darn cool! So, you know my opinion. And I think the maps do well on their own without the other maps.
Other things I'd find interesting:
- Related maps of different scales. For example, an outdoor map (like the Woodland Shrine) encompassing twice or three times the amount of space as an indoor space (like the Forgotten Tomb).
- An overall map (large scale), followed by maps of individual areas (small scale) within the large map. The individual maps wouldn't have to detail the entire overall map, just the interesting features of it.
- Related maps that are separated by distance. I could easily envision more distance between the Woodland Shrine and the Ancient Fortress and between the Forgotten Tomb and the Deep Grotto. (That's a lot of good stuff to pack into less than a thousand feet!)
- A map of a city block or neighborhood.
Thanks, Christopher, for all the wonderful maps!
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I really like the connected maps, its been really cool fitting them together in context - and to me it adds to the "mystery" to find out where they connect (although often its quite obvious) - I certainly didnt pick up the Dragon temple of Vecna connection though.
Of course the connected maps always stand alone too, which is cool.
If you like doing city maps, I'd be interested in seeing those - maybe even some "connected" city blocks or districts?
Or towns - like Deepwatch was really cool.
Your maps are fanatastic Chris. They are easy to slot into a game and inspire an adventure idea.
I would love to see more Castle Maps. A map similiar to the Ravenloft original adventure would be terrific including different floors, surrounding areas (village/town included), undergound cyrpts etc.
Unusual locations on different planes would also be excellent or a Sunken City awash with potential adventure.
Keep up the great work Chris
Delvesdeep
You might ask the Paizo folks to set up a survey table so folks can vote for lots of connected maps, frequent connected maps, occasional connected maps, or no connected maps? Or something like that. Of course, folks' concrete explanations here far exceed the value of numbers, IMHO.
okay, i'll bite.
first off, you seem to be reading my mind, mr. west. Every time i have DM writer's block (and many of you know what i'm talking about) all i need to do is flip through a few of my old back issues of dungeon and WA LAH! there it is, a map that is perfect for my next adventure. it doesn't matter if the characters are out in the desert and there's nothing around. what, those old tomb ruins from issue X? sure, perfect! the slaver's stronghold ruled by a pirate king? oh, i remember, there was a walled town in a jungle map not long ago, i'll use that.
inspiration, sir. that's what you give us. i'm sure many of you have read about various adventures i've used with your maps. the icicle tower was a masterpiece, the pirate caves doubly so, and one can go on for hours with all the ideas for the latest set of interconnected goodness.
now, what i want is a tutorial on how you do these wonderful maps. that would be great for all of us digital mappers here. ashenvale, would you agree?
"It seems that not only the MOMs are connected, one of them is also connected to a non-MOM map from dungeon magazine. The Temple of Vecna map from the Core beliefs: Vecna article directly connects to the Ancient catacombs MOM. Was this the only one that did this?"
thanks for the idea. i'm working on something maybe all of you can help me with. more to follow, but i am using both of these maps for a special project. just to show what can be done with CW's maps.
Mm...Christopher West mapmaking tutorial...*drools*
okay, so i took 3 maps and threw out a few ideas on paper about a bad guy and some ideas looking at the maps.
the adventure name is "In the Hands of Shadow" for PCs level 10-13.
here's the stats for the BBEG i have made up, just a normal human with a strong connection to the negative elemental plane. he's the cult leader for a cult of vecna named "the Shadowhands". lately, priests of cuthbert have been missing. little do they know that the Shadowhands have been using the crypts underneath the very temple of Cuthbert to cary out thier vile rituals to death in the name of Vecna the Undying.
The cult has some help from other higher ups in the church. the tavernmaster Kalvan Rundeyo, is a fighter 3/cleric of vecna 5, and is the second in charge of the cult.
a noble, Danton Crystavich ARI 4, is a fine upstanding citizen on the surface and wishes to run for town mayor one day. he is actually in thrall to this cult after they learned about an affiar with a "woman of the night" who later died accidentally during a scuffle between her and Danton. this information would not do him well should it get out. it would ruin his marriage and his social standing in the community, so he allows the cult the use of his basements and crypts. in return they keep information about him out of the public eye and are in the works to increase his odds of winning the upcoming elections. this would serve the temple well to have a noble in thier command.
Here's the basic rundown for the BBEG, Livor Theldusci.
Livor Theldusci—high priest of Vecna, cleric 3/necromancer 3/mystic theurge 7
Hp: 5d8+8d4 (48 hp)
Human, elite
St 8
Dx 13
Cn 10
In 16
Ws 15
Cha 13
Saves:
F: 6 3 9
R: 4 1 3 8
W: 11 2 3 16
Feats
Spell focus necromancy
Greater spell focus necromancy
Fell drain*
Fell animate*
Tomb tainted soul*
Bracers of armor +2
Amulet of natural armor +2
Cloak of resistance +3
Attacks: +6/+1
Dagger (mwk cold iron +1, cold, unholy) Vecna’s Icicle 34304 gp
Total attack bonus: +5/+0, dmg 1d4+1d6/ or 1d4+3d6 against good
110,000-
85304=
24,696 in other gear
Spells:
Wizard S/D: 4/6/6/5/4/3 This includes the specialist necromancy spells/ day
Cleric S/D: 6/6/6/4/4/3 This includes domain spells
Skills: Know Arcana +16, Religion +15, Nobles +7, planar +8, diplomacy +11, concentration +18, Decipher script +12, heal +5, sense motive +9, spellcraft +18
* These are from the book Libris Mortis
here's the maps i used. i updated the guildport map with the encounter locations as on the maps for the temple and the catacombs.
anyone else have any ideas, go ahead an post em, maybe we can make this a community adventure. just for kicks.
obviously these maps are christopher west's. i am only using them just for a demonstration here as to what can be done with his great designs.
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f127/terrainmonkey/?action=view&curre nt=vecnatomb.jpg
if the above link doesn't work, get rid of the space between the V and E in vecnatomb.jpg
not letting me edit. if the above link doesn't work, take out the space between the v and e in vecnatomb.jpg.
hope that helps.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Those are connected? I didn't even notice. My vote is for maps that are NOT CONNECTED. Why? Because it allows for more variety. If you have one map in a fiery zone chances are you won't make a connecting map to a frigid zone (unless it's some wacky Gygaxian dungeon). Dicsonnected maps allow for more variety, and the loose ends, as someone mentioned, are often great sources of inspiration!
Great work, btw.
Huh? If you didn't even notice they were connected, doesn't that suggest that there is variety even in connected maps?
I guess that's my take - to the extent the various maps have been connected, it has been a loose connection and very easy to overlook, which means that each map continues to stand on its own.
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I think the idea of sets of related maps (3-10 per set) is a
good idea and allows a dm to plan out a series of encounters
or the flexibility to choose one or two out of the set.
What would be cool would be a pdf of all the maps collected
and printable.
Even better would be the ability to scale and print the maps
for tabletop use with minis. At the least it would save time
drawing them by hand on a battle map.
Tom Carpenter
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Even better would be the ability to scale and print the maps
for tabletop use with minis. At the least it would save time
drawing them by hand on a battle map.Tom Carpenter
1. Open the online supplements up in Adobe.
2. Navigate to the map.3. Zoom in until the map starts to look pixelated (blocky). If you downloaded the high res version, you'll need to scroll in to 400% or higher.
4. Use the select tool (looks like a camera), and rubber-band the map. It will auto-copy the image to the clipboard.
5. Open your favorite jpeg-editor utility and paste it in.
From here, you should be able to cut out and resize 8 x 10 sections of the image for printing.
I've done this for every adventure I've run since the PDFs started coming out and it works great!
Connected. Stand alone. As long as they continue the superb quality they have been (I've used 3 so far as the basis of adventures and have plans for at least 3 more.) I love them in either format.
I do have a small issue with the MoM in 145....WHY THE F*CK IS THERE A GOD-D@MNED CARTOON GRAIL IN THE FRIGGIN CORNER! THAT IS A REALLY SCREWED UP THING TO DO TO AN OTHERWISE GREAT MAP! KEEP THE STUPID PROMOTIONAL CRAP OUT OF THE FRIGGIN' ARTWORK! DAMMIT!!!
FH
Stop swearing. You look like a fool.
I do have a small issue with the MoM in 145....WHY THE F*CK IS THERE A GOD-D@MNED CARTOON GRAIL IN THE FRIGGIN CORNER! THAT IS A REALLY SCREWED UP THING TO DO TO AN OTHERWISE GREAT MAP! KEEP THE STUPID PROMOTIONAL CRAP OUT OF THE FRIGGIN' ARTWORK! DAMMIT!!!
FH
I didn't even notice it until you said something. Doesn't rub me one way or the other... it's just coincidental ripples in the water.
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After that I decided to switch gears and revisit the "Forsaken Rift" (issue 136) to explore another location identified on that map, but I left the option open to continue the current series of linked maps if readers are interested in going deeper.
... cut...
What kind of maps are most useful or interesting to you folks?
I am currently building my next campaign along the linked maps of the "Forsaken Rift" theme. I like linked maps a lot, they seem to spark a lot more adventure/scenario/encounter ideas than the stand-alone ones.
Some generic but themed cities/settlements (mountain town, viking village, etc) would be nice for future projects. ;)
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First off- as everyone else has said, I love your maps. They're one of the things I look for first in each issue. I really enjoy the "connected map" format you're using right now- I think it opens up a lot of opportunities to come up with ideas. I don't think using the connected format detracts from their use by themselves- as long as you're doing individual, "unique" (i.e. not connected) maps every once in a while, I think everyone will be happy.
Huh? If you didn't even notice they were connected, doesn't that suggest that there is variety even in connected maps?
The limiting factor would be on Mr. West's end, not mine. If he drew a map of Cavern A and wanted it to be connected to a second Cavern B then he wouldn't draw a map of a sylvan glade or mountain fortress. That's what would reduce the variety.
now, what i want is a tutorial on how you do these wonderful maps. that would be great for all of us digital mappers here. ashenvale, would you agree?
I think any insights from Mr. West would be priceless! But I don't think there are many shortcuts here for the rest of us. Mr. West's artistry makes his maps unique, not the particular Photoshop techniques he uses to create that work. The world is full of technically proficient Photoshop users; they're as common as short-order cooks. But there's only one Christopher West.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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What I would love to see in the MOM's are chase scenes. Rooftops, Docksides (like Mad God's Key), a Construction site, a series of bridges and stairs following along & crisscrossing over a canal. Anywhere a dynamic combat encounter can take place with Balance, Climb, Jump, and Swim checks, Bull Rush possibilities, squeezing, crawling, the WORKS!!!
And I've always thought your sig using the West of the compass rose was kick ass!