I have a player who made a very interesting paladin/fighter.
His feats are as follows...
Combat Expertese
Shield Specialization
Sheild Ward
Sacred Sheild
improved sheild bash
Endurance
Steadfast determenation
Sheild sling
Need less to say hes a little tough to take down.
anyone else have players like that?
My character in my wife's game is a dragonborn paladin, (although the race has little to do with the AC) and I'm doing much the same. Combat expertise, shield spec, heavy armor optimization, exotic heavy armor, greater heavy optimization, armor specialization. It took a while to exceed the fully buffed for melee cleric in the group, but I can beat him.
But here's the deal, a character with a defense like this wins wars through attrition. I can last forever, but I need to because my damage output is minimal comparitively.
I think "Alright I got my second fighter level! hmm I hear someone calling to my soul...could it be hieroneous?" is a pretty common way to deal with paladin multiclassing.
The non-standard feats are from both complete warrior and the PHB 2. To get past the multiclass rule, there couls have been fighter levels first, then paladin. Or, you could use knightly training feat from Ebberon, or the Devoted_____ feats from complete adventurer. Problems like high AC are easy to bypass if you put something like the true strike enchantment on the enemy weapons and the make that weapon something the PC's either won't want or something they can't use. Other alternatives is to have the 6th level gnoll barbarian sunder the shield with his adamantine greataxe. "Shield go boom!" ;)
Mmmm....paladins.
Tastes great, less filling!
Are the non-standard feats from Complete Warrior?
Player's Handbook II.
Shield Specialization - Increases your shield bonus
Sheild Ward - Allow you to use your shield in more circumstances (touch, bull rush, etc.). Pretty much the most poweful feat in this build. Dwarven Defenders become sick with this (example)
Sacred Sheild - Hm... not a feat from Player's Handbook II... I can't locate this.
Steadfast determenation - Con instead of Wisdom on Will... not sure why this is such a great thing for a paladin.
Sheild sling - Er... Captain America.
Sorry not sacred sheild. its divine sheild its in the complete warrior. The player stopped leveling in paladin at 6th to become a fighter. He is now taking levels in Exorsist of the silver flame. he made his sheild his signature weapon. sigh
W8..what are the pre requiremenets for 'ward shield'?
"Needless to say he's a little tough to take down. Anyone else have players like that?"
I welcome player challenges, as a DM, I don't delight in taking down my players, but I do play my villains to the hilt. Said paladin/fighter can still be victim to a true striked and empowered scorching rays, and a true striked enervation always does the trick to make them easier to pounce on later.
In my opinion, evil socerers, wizards and clerics can't wait to deliver these holy icons a good smacking and my players know that they will be rewarded for their valiant efforts, but may be waylaid by nefarious and sneaky tactics. Traps are always another way to teach these uber-characters a good lesson.
The characters in my gaming group average around 15th level and are currently undertaking the challenge "The Mud Sorcerer's Tomb" from Dungeon #138. For the most part, I am running the adventure as written, the group is looking for a specific magical item that has been hinted as being part of the buried treasure. These are seasoned characters, we've been playing for nearly 15 years and many times I find to challenge them I need to be inventive to say the least.
I was totally delighted by the havoc the Naga in the adventure caused them. This sneaky snake, grappled nearly the entire group in an Evard's Black Tentacles, separted party characters with a well placed Wall of Force and turned three grappled foes into stone. It looked like curtains for awhile, but the tide turned in their favor. However, this clever serpent sure gave them a run for thier gold.
Good Gaming, Be Crafty!
"Needless to say he's a little tough to take down. Anyone else have players like that?"
Definitely - its like an AC arms race in my campaign. Worse offender goes to one of the main fighters in the party.
Lizard Folk Fighter 3rd
+5 natural armour bonus = AC +5 (Natural Armour Bonus)
+2 Heavy Steel Shield = AC +4 (Shield Bonus)
+1 Mithral Full Plate = AC +9 (Armour Bonus)
+4 Dexterity = AC +4 (Dexterity Bonus)
+2 Ring of Protection +2 = AC +2 (Deflection Bonus)
Combat Expertise = AC +1-+5 (Dodge Bonus)
AC = 34-39 The player is looking for ways to get that up as well. He wanders around muttering 'heavy armour optimization feats and gloves of dexterity'.
So for my monsters to be able to have a chance to hit him on a 19 they need at least +20 to hit and he is only 8th level. Its something of a conundrum as I can't just routinely use monsters with +25 to hit (there are few of these around at CRs 8-12 in any case). Nonetheless I am reacting and to survive the rest of the players are definitely looking at ways to up their AC. When all their enemies have weapon focus style feats and strength enhancements they have no real choice when I need to try and make my meat monsters able to hit an AC approaching 40.
It is odd as I have been waiting for this to work itself out under the impression that eventually AC simply can't keep pace with the attack bonus but now I'm not so sure that this will ever happen. To have a good chance of hitting this player (50%) I need +29 to hit. To be any kind of a threat +24 is required. Not many +24 to hit CR 8-12 monsters. Though of course I can always play to the characters weak points. Touch AC is not comparable, Many spells don't bother with ACs etc. but sigh - I do so love my big nasties like Trolls and Giants and these guys just play to this characters strengths.
Interestingly if I play back at them with high AC monsters they can't hit them either. They faced a Death Knight fighter 7th in my last session with an AC of 29 and the combat went on for something like 6 rounds even when they mobbed him. They just could not hit an AC of 29 with any kind of consistency - though they managed to kill it when the Half Giant Psionic Warrior enlarged and started tripping it every round.
Your Lizard fold armor monger has something wrong, his Max Dex in Mithril Full Plate is +3, so only 3 of his 4 dex bonus counts towards AC (which also means his future gloves of dex won't help him with AC).
His big weakness is his Touch AC, only 15-20, so hit him up with some range touch spells, Scorching Ray hurts a lot. Also, Spectral Hand to hit with Shocking Graps and Vampiric Touch, etc.
Also, if the creature can't hit him, it may decide to grapple him and take AC out of the equation. Touch attack to start grapple (with AoO). Then it only must win a grapple check to damage the lizardfolk.
I have similar trouble with 4th level (gestalt) githzerai monk (multiclass monkey; scout/druid/monk) AC 25 (26 with Skirmish from Scout):
DEX +7 (dex)
WIS +4 (monk)
Inertial Armor +4 (inertial mage armor)
Skirmish +1 (dodge bonus if moved 10' or more)
AC 25-26
Touch 21-22
Flat-foot 25-26 (Uncanny Dodge)
His animal companion, however, is easy to hit.
Good gaming,
-c
"Needless to say he's a little tough to take down. Anyone else have players like that?"Definitely - its like an AC arms race in my campaign. Worse offender goes to one of the main fighters in the party.
Lizard Folk Fighter 3rd
+5 natural armour bonus = AC +5 (Natural Armour Bonus)
+2 Heavy Steel Shield = AC +4 (Shield Bonus)
+1 Mithral Full Plate = AC +9 (Armour Bonus)
+4 Dexterity = AC +4 (Dexterity Bonus)
+2 Ring of Protection +2 = AC +2 (Deflection Bonus)
Combat Expertise = AC +1-+5 (Dodge Bonus)AC = 34-39 The player is looking for ways to get that up as well. He wanders around muttering 'heavy armour optimization feats and gloves of dexterity'.
So for my monsters to be able to have a chance to hit him on a 19 they need at least +20 to hit and he is only 8th level. Its something of a conundrum as I can't just routinely use monsters with +25 to hit (there are few of these around at CRs 8-12 in any case). Nonetheless I am reacting and to survive the rest of the players are definitely looking at ways to up their AC. When all their enemies have weapon focus style feats and strength enhancements they have no real choice when I need to try and make my meat monsters able to hit an AC approaching 40.
It is odd as I have been waiting for this to work itself out under the impression that eventually AC simply can't keep pace with the attack bonus but now I'm not so sure that this will ever happen. To have a good chance of hitting this player (50%) I need +29 to hit. To be any kind of a threat +24 is required. Not many +24 to hit CR 8-12 monsters. Though of course I can always play to the characters weak points. Touch AC is not comparable, Many spells don't bother with ACs etc. but sigh - I do so love my big nasties like Trolls and Giants and these guys just play to this characters strengths.
Interestingly if I play back at them with high AC monsters they can't hit them either. They faced a Death Knight fighter 7th in my last session with an AC of 29...
The multiclassing and race selections on some of these is, well strange, there are limitations on certain classes, and alignments, etc.
Of course its up to any given DM/game to rule so it works for the table but those restrictions are in the RAW for a reason.
And there are xp penalties for multiclassing as well - of course my games tend to be more story based - which is different from a lot of games.