I too think a new D&D cartoon would be an interesting way to introduce a new wave of players, but I just shuddered thinking how annoying Lidda's voice would be.
Lidda voiced by Maggie Blue O'Hara (Bulma from Dragonball)
Tordek voiced by Chris Sabat (every gruff-voiced character ever)Jozan voiced by Sean Schemmel (every not-gruff good guy character ever, including Goku and Cyclops)
Mialee voiced by Rachel Lillis, so she'd have a great voice but almost never actually speak
Devis (the half-elven bard) voiced by Cam Clarke (Leonardo in the old Ninja Turtles, Liquid Snake, Link in the Zelda cartoon)
Half of the rest of the characters you will recognise the voice from, but won't for the life of you be able to place it
And they would probably set it in Eberron, no matter whether or not the tone was fitting for a cartoon...
I agree. The problem with 3.5 is that the core system works very very well. A change for the sake of a change isn't really justifiable.
Sorry to disagree, but this isn't true.
In Hasbro's world, the only justification is money -- they can't sell me another PH 3.5, but I might buy a PH 4/e.
Regards,
Jack
....license Greyhawk to Paizo so Erik can go apes&&# with it.....
Amen! We should start a letter drive.
Two words: Market fragmentation is no more palatable to them if a subsidiary (Paizo) causes it than if they do it themselves.
OK, more like 20 :)
Jack
And in a twist of bad luck, my friend with the Greyhawk Gazetteer is in another country. Oh well, I have his Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil!
The Gazetteer is sold out at this site, too. Maybe a PDF edition would be a good idea?
Let me start by saying I LOVED reading this thread. It's every argument that I've had with my friends about the game over the past 10+ years, some of whom swore off of D&D forever after WOTC took over and others who got back into it only once it was out of TSR's hands. Although this is a message board, I'm not going to go on and on with my opinion of these two companies save to say that they are just that- companies - and have made(or in WOTC's case, will continue to make) bad decisions due to the simple fact that nobody is perfect(some even moreso than others) and the world is an unfair place(GAAP).
That said, I've always wondered why third parties didn't take more of an interest in these disaffected titles. If Dungeon(or Paizo) can become Greyhawk's new home(And more power to them for it!), why can't Polyhedron be ressurected and adopt Spelljammer(I LOVED the new stuff in that old issue of Dungeon almost as much as I loved the old stuff revamped for 3.5 in that recent Dragon issue), Dark Sun(although I think the guys at the athas.org site have more or less taken care of that), Dragonlance or Planescape? Moreover, what of Mystara? I've always wanted more information on that setting...maybe my google-fu is weak(or more likely, I haven't looked it up for a while), but I haven't been able to find much information on that old chestnut...
Fairness and perfection aside, it falls primarily to the fans to right wrongs and keep the home fires burning. We have a lot more power than ever before- use it!
Have you tried these, Freehold DM?
http://spelljammer.org/
http://www.planewalker.com/index.php
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/
http://pandius.com/index.html
Most are from WotC site, Pandius is the Known World (Mystara) site.
Dragonlance is still alive BTW, Sovereign Press, I believe
I'm seriously considering forming the Greyhawk Liberation Front - any takers? :-D
What are the Organizational Objectives?
Are we fighting for a message board of our own?
Official WotC products for our "homeland"?
The abandonment of projects in support of lesser realms?
Anyone brave enough to take on a GLF statement of objectives?
Have you tried these, Freehold DM?
http://spelljammer.org/
http://www.planewalker.com/index.php
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/
http://pandius.com/index.htmlMost are from WotC site, Pandius is the Known World (Mystara) site.
Dragonlance is still alive BTW, Sovereign Press, I believe
Ooh! Thank you, Darkwolf. I'll be checking these anon. Are there any fans of these settings on these boards or have they all retreated to their pocket dimensions(fan sites)? I still think they deserve to be in print more often than once a year in Dragon.
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I too think a new D&D cartoon would be an interesting way to introduce a new wave of players, but I just shuddered thinking how annoying Lidda's voice would be.Lidda voiced by Maggie Blue O'Hara (Bulma from Dragonball)
Tordek voiced by Chris Sabat (every gruff-voiced character ever)
Jozan voiced by Sean Schemmel (every not-gruff good guy character ever, including Goku and Cyclops)
Mialee voiced by Rachel Lillis, so she'd have a great voice but almost never actually speak
Devis (the half-elven bard) voiced by Cam Clarke (Leonardo in the old Ninja Turtles, Liquid Snake, Link in the Zelda cartoon)
Half of the rest of the characters you will recognise the voice from, but won't for the life of you be able to place itAnd they would probably set it in Eberron, no matter whether or not the tone was fitting for a cartoon...
Too much anime influence. I wouldn't watch an anime-style D&D cartoon. D&D should be dark and gritty, not 8' long swords and 13 year olds slaying demons. IMO
FH
I'm seriously considering forming the Greyhawk Liberation Front - any takers? :-DAny enterprise you start, I'm in. With a leader who delivers like Lilithid does we sha'nt be bested.
Your eternal servant,
FH
I agree completely. I'm in!
I'm seriously considering forming the Greyhawk Liberation Front - any takers? :-D
Men, we are on the verge of a new era! An era of good versus evil! An era of excitement and adventure! We, the simpletons of the Paizo messageboards, declare war on the moronic empire that wish to burn our lands, enslave our children and teach stupid pet tricks to our animals! We, the residents and adventurers of the Realm of Greyhawk swear to defend our nation from oppression! We are the KNIGHTS OF ILLILITHID'S LOST LAND (or K.I.L.L. for short).
Here's our new motto...
"I'm with The Lilith!"
(Or, how about just a fan-based website which would include printable Greyhawk maps, adventures and local history?)
Ultradan
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I'm seriously considering forming the Greyhawk Liberation Front - any takers? :-DMen, we are on the verge of a new era! An era of good versus evil! An era of excitement and adventure! We, the simpletons of the Paizo messageboards, declare war on the moronic empire that wish to burn our lands, enslave our children and teach stupid pet tricks to our animals! We, the residents and adventurers of the Realm of Greyhawk swear to defend our nation from oppression! We are the KNIGHTS OF ILLILITHID'S LOST LAND (or K.I.L.L. for short).
Here's our new motto...
"I'm with The Lilith!"
(Or, how about just a fan-based website which would include printable Greyhawk maps, adventures and local history?)
Ultradan
Wow, that last line sounded reasonable.....aren't we supposed to be an unruly, unreasoning mob? I like the idea but please limit your thinking to "mob-like chaos" .
Viva la Greyhawk! Viva la Lilithid!! Long live the new Queen of Greyhawk!!!
FH
Have you looked to Darksun stuff done by the peoples at Athas.org? They've done quality products to convert their beloved setting to 3.x. They've released a campaign source book focusing on what makes Darksun unique (races, class, feats, setting info) also they didn't fear using their own version of races, class, feat if they think it suit better the setting (i.e.: the half-giant, they produce their own race instead of using the one in XPHB, still you can choose which one to use...) they also produce a monstrous manual, a prestige class collection, regional sourcebook etc... If the greyhawk communauty is willing to set asside their differents regarding edition, author preference ... then we could produce our own products and distribute them free online. Articles on Canonfire and within Oerth journals are already a good base to start on.
Too much anime influence. I wouldn't watch an anime-style D&D cartoon. D&D should be dark and gritty, not 8' long swords and 13 year olds slaying demons. IMO
FH
Hmm, I find that to be a rather limiting train of thought. The core idea of role-playing is to be as fantastical as you want it to be (D&D in particular even if the combat rules play out more like chess now a days). I realize that it's your opinion and I'm not trying to jump on anyone but.... For example: I have no problem running a blood, sweat and tears campaign, but neither would I have any problem running "Age of Worms" in the Toon system if at that moment it suited myself and my players to do so. After all life can get a little dull when all you eat is vanilla. So let's hear it for the 13-year-old with the 8-foot longsword who gets a nose bleed anytime he's cured by the party's pretty cleric. We all want to be the grim defender of justice or some such, but every now and then it's good to turn that on it's head. Most of us were thirteen once ourselves.
GGG
I'm seriously considering forming the Greyhawk Liberation Front - any takers? :-D
I am so in!!
Jack
Wow - I'm late arriving on THIS bandwagon...
*Running to catch up*
Looks like you've gathered your own fan club, Lilith, oh web-goddess and keeper of our character stats...
*Feeling quite like her Court Wizard... or would I be one of the early encounters in her Illithid lair?*
M
Because more people will come if you tell them we have punch and pie.I'm seriously considering forming the Greyhawk Liberation Front - any takers? :-DWill there be punch and pie?
I'm in, if only for the chance to serve Lilith while eating punch and pie.
Don't worry, I'll bring the punch and pie...and cookies, even! (I have a pin that says "Come over to the Dark Side. We have cookies." ;-) )
Or coffee, if that's your thing. I make a great pot of coffee.
You all are aware of the Greyhawk Message Boards over at WOTC website I hope and also there is already a few Greyhawk sites on the web.
The best IMO is http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/
They have several maps and fanbased materials galore for your enjoyment. They regularly host competitions to create original greyhawk materials and expand the world.
Don't worry, I'll bring the punch and pie...and cookies, even! (I have a pin that says "Come over to the Dark Side. We have cookies." ;-) )
Or coffee, if that's your thing. I make a great pot of coffee.
Did you mean Cookies or Wookies?
Ultradan
Did you mean Cookies or Wookies?
Nope, cookies - 'cause they're scarier than a growling wookie.
Come on, what's scarier - a grandma with glowing red eyes with a plateful of cookies or a wookie? :-D
Will have to check out the Canonfire site - it looks pretty cool.
Somebody is still playing 1st edition, God Bless 'Em....I got $60 for my Judges Guild Dark Tower module!!
Wow, if they started back in the 70s their 1E bard must be what, 4th level by now?
Heh heh heh.
Member #14 reporting for duty! It's all about the GH.
*plots plans plots*
Mwah hah hah...
In fact, that's the majority. Most RPG players don't buy sourcebooks or, necessarily, new editions: the total RPG market is still well under a tenth of the number of players.
In fact, 90% of b~!*+#+@ stats are made up on the spot...
Not to be mean there, but where are you getting your 'majority' from? I don't know anyone, personally, who plays D&D and doesn't play with the current edition rules and buy at least a few of the nice new shiny books.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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In fact, that's the majority. Most RPG players don't buy sourcebooks or, necessarily, new editions: the total RPG market is still well under a tenth of the number of players.In fact, 90% of bulls*%@ stats are made up on the spot...
Not to be mean there, but where are you getting your 'majority' from? I don't know anyone, personally, who plays D&D and doesn't play with the current edition rules and buy at least a few of the nice new shiny books.
While generally I agree that most stats are made up on the spot, I also remember some data from early in the 3e product line that suggested that the population of people who play D&D is significantly larger than the population that purchase products. There is also data that DM's purchase 5 times as much in product than do non-DM's. Here's a link to an old (and quite possibly outdated) discussion of the data:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20010323a
Too much anime influence. I wouldn't watch an anime-style D&D cartoon. D&D should be dark and gritty, not 8' long swords and 13 year olds slaying demons. IMOI too think a new D&D cartoon would be an interesting way to introduce a new wave of players, but I just shuddered thinking how annoying Lidda's voice would be.And they would probably set it in Eberron, no matter whether or not the tone was fitting for a cartoon...
From what I understand, either the Blume brothers or Lorraine Williams pulled the plug on the D&D Entertainment group, for reasons as bogus as you would expect. The cartoon had reasonable ratings and was trending up. It was also moving away from the kitsch and corniness of the first two seasons into straighter adventure territory, as evidenced by the characters they introduced at the end of the series. The idea was that there was going to be a spin off that would attract the teen audience. Unfortunately, when the new T$R regime sought to eradicate all ties to Gygax, the movie deal fell apart and the cartoon show's fate was sealed. This remains one of the great "what if's?" in gaming history.
Any cartoon show produced today would have to be anime or mimic anime. It's sad, but the producers and executives who make these decisions are monolithically convinced that only an anime style cartoon can succeed in today's market. Film and TV people are notoriously risk-averse and conformist in their thinking, so it's unlikely this conventional wisdom will falter until anime and manga sales begin to go down, which may not happen anytime soon, although I fervently, passionately hope it does as I am developing an intese dislike of the style and the legions of annoying brats it leaves in its wake; including some who are old enough to know how awful most of it is.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Thanks Devilfish - I had always assumed that the cartoon went under because it...well...mostly sucked. ;-) My pet peeve was always Presto. Spellcasting characters are so rarely done well - they're either stupidly powerful or just stupid. What were the new characters introduced near the series end?
As for the all modern cartoons being anime-style, I think that's only half the story. The other half is the more WB style as in Justice League, The Batman, or even cartoons like the new He-Man. I could be wrong though - I don't actually watch much cartoons.
Come on, what's scarier - a grandma with glowing red eyes with a plateful of cookies or a wookie? :-D
Grandmas don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that.
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For the love of god, please let Paizo get full control of Greyhawk!! *Another member willing to commit any crimes necessary to further Lilith's cause
I am trying my hardest to run the Age of Worms in Greyhawk and it has been a task to find all the background information for the surrounding regions in the Adventure Path. It would be incredibly helpful to have an official Greyhawk sourcebook just like the FR and Eberron campaign setting hardcovers. I used to play a lot in the 80's and my group is loving the fact that the campaign is in the same setting that all of our previous dungeon crawls were based in all those years ago. I must say that I am also enjoying 3.5 more and more with each session. As an old DM who has been away for awhile, this is my favorite D&D system ever. We just need the Paizo crew to start producing a full line of Greyhawk products!
P.S.
The difference in attitudes between Paizo and WOTC is unbelievable. Paizo just has that "by the players, for the players" vibe that can't be imitated by any marketing strategy. Praise Lilith and the cause!
Ha, I hit "Random Page" at Wikipedia about ten times, and got the entry on Diamond Lake in Greyhawk, just after someone was talking about how Age of Worms and Greyhawk was making its way onto Wikipedia. What are the odds?
Happiness is laminating the GH maps from Dungeon #117-121 and being allowed to hang them up in the den because my wife is also a gamer!
They look great--colorful, detailed and huge when all four are put together. Slow demise of GH? Not in my house!
Happiness is laminating the GH maps from Dungeon #118-121 and being allowed to hang them up in the den because my wife is also a gamer!
I'd love to do the same, but I missed #120-#123 from my shop not stocking them, so I'm missing half of Greyhawk. Now I'll have to buy back issues if I want the maps. (I subscribed after #124 to get the adventure path, but by then it was too late for the maps...)
How do you get them laminated? Separately, or with a really huge laminating machine somewhere? Do they have shops that laminate things?
More than 2 million people play RPGs monthly, while sales in the tens of thousands are good for RPG books.
That's because we're all cheapskates, and the core books provide so much, with our imaginations providing a lot of the rest. The Player's Handbook has hundreds of spells. The Dungeon Master's Guide contains the combined DMing knowledge of thirty years and the best magic items from 2nd edition and all the magic item splatbooks. The Monster Manual has all the best monsters from mythology as well as the old AD&D splatbooks. There's so much packed into three books that with a little imagination and a good DM you can play for years and still not need to buy new books.
I think we also have the condition of lending books to other people in your group. In our group of perhaps five players, it was rare for more than one player to buy the same book. The DM would buy Manual of the Planes, read it cover to cover, and then lend it to a different player each week to read between weekly game sessions. Essentially, Wizards was not selling us one book per player, but one book per gaming group.
Many players are young and can't afford the books, or do not play seriously enough to buy new books. DMs, meanwhile, are often serious players and will buy many books. Another reason DMs will buy many books is that they often host the game in their own home, and it's quite convenient for him to hold the books the group uses, but unfair for him to do that if they're not his books.
Perhaps what WotC needs to do is to take a leaf from anime sales and give away free gimmicks. Give away different miniatures with the book, encouraging players to own their own copy just to get the exclusive miniature or extra-special set of dice that come with it. You'd borrow another man's book, but your dice are your own... and you do want these solid brass dice, right? This keychain shaped like a cog from Mechanus to go along with your copy of Constructs and Machines? This exclusive miniature of a fighter who looks just like you probably imagine your character does, while your friend's copy of the book gave him a sorcerer just like his? (Just don't shink wrap it, because nobody likes it when they can't browse an expensive book before buying, which is why PDFs sell best as cheap small items. An easy-peel sticker or loosely attached paper band is best.)