I want a lower magic adventure path which starts off as street-level encounters and moves onto a mecenary or military campaign with lots of tactical battles, seeing the players as soldiers or army lads, featuring objectives like capturing the enemy, stealing plans and seek and destroy missions.
I want all this to allow the players to win medals, earn ranks and order troops around.
The last few adventures would lead to a war, or invasion. BIG battles!
get cracking dungeon-boys, make it so!
Frankly, I'd like to see if they could get Keith Baker to do an Eberron Adventure Path. I think that would be totally awesome.. instead of having "how to convert to Eberron" sections work in the other direction. I'd like to see what ol' boy would do with it.
I want a lower magic adventure path which starts off as street-level encounters and moves onto a mecenary or military campaign with lots of tactical battles, seeing the players as soldiers or army lads, featuring objectives like capturing the enemy, stealing plans and seek and destroy missions.
I want all this to allow the players to win medals, earn ranks and order troops around.
The last few adventures would lead to a war, or invasion. BIG battles!
get cracking dungeon-boys, make it so!
Mmm...strikes me as to pigeon holed. Only a minority of D&D players would probably want to do the whole military thing.
Iggwilv was just mentioned on another thread. Now there's a dame that deserves to have a whole AP devoted to her.
I want a lower magic adventure path which starts off as street-level encounters and moves onto a mecenary or military campaign with lots of tactical battles, seeing the players as soldiers or army lads, featuring objectives like capturing the enemy, stealing plans and seek and destroy missions.
I want all this to allow the players to win medals, earn ranks and order troops around.
The last few adventures would lead to a war, or invasion. BIG battles!
get cracking dungeon-boys, make it so!
Mmm...strikes me as to pigeon holed. Only a minority of D&D players would probably want to do the whole military thing.
Maybe as a three part arc with a cool backdrop. That might be cool. Yeah, that'd be real cool. Really cool. R-E-A-L-L-Y C-O-O-L. :-)
If someone submitted a proposal like that, maybe the boys at Dungeon would dig it. ;-)
I want a lower magic adventure path which starts off as street-level encounters and moves onto a mecenary or military campaign with lots of tactical battles, seeing the players as soldiers or army lads, featuring objectives like capturing the enemy, stealing plans and seek and destroy missions.
I want all this to allow the players to win medals, earn ranks and order troops around.
The last few adventures would lead to a war, or invasion. BIG battles!
get cracking dungeon-boys, make it so!
Mmm...strikes me as to pigeon holed. Only a minority of D&D players would probably want to do the whole military thing.
Maybe as a three part arc with a cool backdrop. That might be cool. Yeah, that'd be real cool. Really cool. R-E-A-L-L-Y C-O-O-L. :-)
If someone submitted a proposal like that, maybe the boys at Dungeon would dig it. ;-)
Did you have anybody in mind, Nicolas?
;)
GGG
Maybe as a three part arc with a cool backdrop. That might be cool. Yeah, that'd be real cool. Really cool. R-E-A-L-L-Y C-O-O-L. :-)
If someone submitted a proposal like that, maybe the boys at Dungeon would dig it. ;-)
Did you have anybody in mind, Nicolas?
;)
GGG
Let's just say when I read this post, it reminded me of a little something I submitted last month.
::Nick crosses fingers, and smiles hopefully at the Dungeon Submission Meeting Gods::
While I agree that campaign base completely around military action and large scale battles might not appeal to as wide an audience as might be desirable. I must agree that a low magic anventure path would be great. Not so low magic as to not be fantasy, but just a little more..........gritty.
Tam
Great idea! - somewhere gritty, low magic, somewhere maybe very alchemical, polluted, realistic - somewhere the bad guys have the upper hand, where evil and decay stalks every street corner. Hmm, if only we had somewhere like that to set an adventure path around...
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Great idea! - somewhere gritty, low magic, somewhere maybe very alchemical, polluted, realistic - somewhere the bad guys have the upper hand, where evil and decay stalks every street corner. Hmm, if only we had somewhere like that to set an adventure path around...
And why not an adventure path around Rauxes in the former great kingdom : you have evil "pollution" everywhere, you need mostly strength, protection and faith there.
Why not an AP that combines both your views, military and evil decay, around the archbaronny of Ratik. Most of the people around there are fighters, rangers or barbarians, you have the menace of the bone march, the north province, and that city (can't remember the name) ruled by a mad necromancer who has turned most of his citizens in zombies.
Both strength, cunning, faith and weapons are needed in the duchy of Tenh, where trolls vs zealots of pholtus vs tenhas resistants vs forces of Iuz vs evil barbarians from the north may make a nice battleground. With the question : who is your worst enemy (depending on what side you are...).
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Great idea! - somewhere gritty, low magic, somewhere maybe very alchemical, polluted, realistic - somewhere the bad guys have the upper hand, where evil and decay stalks every street corner. Hmm, if only we had somewhere like that to set an adventure path around...
I forgot about the rovers of the barren : harassed by Iuz troups, few, scattered, unorganized, weak compared to Iuz's forces, they are the perfect example of a people using very faw magic, and for the PC's background, you could forbid creating a cleric, wizard, paladin, monk (battle dancer, savant, expert, noble, swashbuckler, ninja, samurai, shujenga, warmage, dread necromancer, jester, hexblade, spellthief, warlock...) and limit every group to : no more than one sorcerer or shaman or bard, no more than one rogue, and a PC's choice limited to druid, ranger, barbarian, fighter, scout. Lots of warfare, places of mystery, unknown and ancient magic, lots of wilderness adventures, skirmishes, dangers, few magic, but magic could be quite unique and potent with drawbacks.
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and for the PC's background, you could forbid creating a cleric, wizard, paladin, monk (battle dancer, savant, expert, noble, swashbuckler, ninja, samurai, shujenga, warmage, dread necromancer, jester, hexblade, spellthief, warlock...) and limit every group to : no more than one sorcerer or shaman or bard, no more than one rogue, and a PC's choice limited to druid, ranger, barbarian, fighter, scout. Lots of warfare, places of mystery, unknown and ancient magic, lots of wilderness adventures, skirmishes, dangers, few magic, but magic could be quite unique and potent with drawbacks.While I can see limiting PC choices for specific campaigns, I'd prefer not to see an adventure path that was really as strict as that - or even one in which the DM ought to be strict.
While I'd like to see low-magic, there are a lot of ways to create that feel without strictly limiting classes. Generally, one of the best ways to do it is simply altering the spell lists. So, a campaign that suggested removing flashy spells like "fireball" and raising the level of other spells (say, make "finger of death" seventh level) would work better for me personally. Though, I'm not sure how they'd make that plain between issues, and it would be difficult to reprint it each issue....
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Great idea! - somewhere gritty, low magic, somewhere maybe very alchemical, polluted, realistic - somewhere the bad guys have the upper hand, where evil and decay stalks every street corner. Hmm, if only we had somewhere like that to set an adventure path around...
Don't worry Richard, I alone among these people understood your clever joke ;)
The Styes would make a perfect backdrop for an AP, as Richard suggested, but he's probably talking about his latest backdrop, which I have not read yet, as I'm hoping to play in the AoW someday.
I think a lot of the gritty seaside locations in Dungeon could be revisited in an ocean-going AP. While I don't have Stormwrack, I understand it's a pretty good book, and an oceanborne AP would be a lot of fun.
The military afficionados (I'm one of them, but I don't think a military AP would sell) could be given some fixes in the form of naval battles. There could be some extraplanar and underwater stuff as well.
Arch-enemy for the AP? How about some extremely organized and highly motivated Sahuagin cities seeking to devastate the mainland?
The Styes would make a perfect backdrop for an AP, as Richard suggested, but he's probably talking about his latest backdrop, which I have not read yet, as I'm hoping to play in the AoW someday.
I think a lot of the gritty seaside locations in Dungeon could be revisited in an ocean-going AP. While I don't have Stormwrack, I understand it's a pretty good book, and an oceanborne AP would be a lot of fun.
The military afficionados (I'm one of them, but I don't think a military AP would sell) could be given some fixes in the form of naval battles. There could be some extraplanar and underwater stuff as well.
Arch-enemy for the AP? How about some extremely organized and highly motivated Sahuagin cities seeking to devastate the mainland?
Spooky, worryingly spooky!
If I stumbled on to something, it's purely accidental. If something like that is in the works or under consideration---well, that would just be awesome!
If I stumbled on to something, it's purely accidental. If something like that is in the works or under consideration---well, that would just be awesome!
Not exactly, I just had a similar idea a little while ago and after discussion made it into a submission which is presently with James and Co, with lots of sahaugin, stormy coasts and evil machionations over a few adventures.
Hopefully it'll make it in....I'm a sucker for coastal and ocean adventures, ever since the ocean journey from Mystara to the Isle of Dread in the first AD&D campaign I played in 25 years ago.
mind flayers
not just a few--a whole city of them
later modules would take you astral, maybe there would be some githyanki involved too
Mmm...hasn't this been done before - ir maybe it was Aboliths.
I want the next AP to be like a crossover of campaign worlds like what if Eberron invades Greyhawk. The warforged against the Empire of Iuz does have a nice ring to it.
I kind of think that its improbable that Eric will stray quite that far from Greyhawk Cannon.
The Styes would make a perfect backdrop for an AP, (...) I think a lot of the gritty seaside locations in Dungeon could be revisited in an ocean-going AP. (...) Arch-enemy for the AP? How about some extremely organized and highly motivated Sahuagin cities seeking to devastate the mainland?
I'd buy that. Make it three copies of each related Dragon and Dungeon magazine! ;-)
I dream of running an underwater/sea campaign, but don't have the time anymore to prepare my own modules, so I really rely on Dungeon. It would be wonderful to have a whole sea-based AP and the creepy touch you are suggesting would be very sweet.
Bocklin
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HOW ABOUT:
A seafaring AP ending with being shipwrecked on a mysterious island where the pc's are subjected to even more mysteries and dangling plot threads that never get tied up, only branch into more, the DM constantly opens up new paths for the players to take but they never get anywhere...
PEOPLE WILL LAP IT UP!!!! ;)
But where will they find the dynamite to blow up the science teacher? ;)
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Not exactly, I just had a similar idea a little while ago and after discussion made it into a submission which is presently with James and Co, with lots of sahaugin, stormy coasts and evil machionations over a few adventures.
I hope it comes to pass, Richard. I am currently working on a campaign for some friends that is set in Port Toli and in the (extreme) far end of it, it includes a Sahaugin invasion.
What's the best part of killing a Siege Crab? Feeding your army for the rest of the week! It's like Red Lobster is supplying the iron rations!
Actually, an Underdark campaign would be totally cool, if niche.
What would be cool would be an adventure path that uses ordinary monsters from the Monster Manual that are not cross-bread with dragons, or have five classes (Ftr6/Sor5/Rog3/Ass3/Mnk1).
Something classical, simple, yet with a clever twist. Promote those poor monsters that never get to be used.
Something gritty would be cool.
Ultradan
I like Bill Lumberg's idea. There would have to be a heck of a lot of backdrop development and the campaign would be much more open ended than previous AP's have been, but it sounds like it might be very enjoyable.
Not exactly, I just had a similar idea a little while ago and after discussion made it into a submission which is presently with James and Co, with lots of sahaugin, stormy coasts and evil machionations over a few adventures.I hope it comes to pass, Richard. I am currently working on a campaign for some friends that is set in Port Toli and in the (extreme) far end of it, it includes a Sahaugin invasion.
What's the best part of killing a Siege Crab? Feeding your army for the rest of the week! It's like Red Lobster is supplying the iron rations!
Fried Gas-Spore all round - yummy yummy! I once did an adventure predominently about marrows, but I can't recall what it was about apart from that, other than there were lots of kobolds, farmers and animating statues in it.
What I would like would be low magic, gritty (in agreement with many of you), and perhaps even character-driven as opposed to event-driven story.
But if I were Paizo, I would make only minor modifications in general but ensure that the playtesting of the campaign happens far in advance of the Adventure Path.
One more thing (this falls into the I want, and not Paizo should do area): I admitingly do not get Dragon. I know, I know, naughty DM. But Dragon is for the Players, and Dungeon is for the DMs, right? I have a player who tells me Manzorian has a couple of pools that do cool things when you drink from them. My response: No he doesn't. I would just like for priveledged information to not make it into Dragon...
Decisions are being made as we speak. Many of you are going to get exactly what you're asking for (at least in parts of it), and many of you won't, but all I can say is that I've never been this excited about the direction Dungeon will be taking in my Whole. Damn. Life.
But you'll just have to wait and see what I mean. Mwahahahahaha!
-James
Creative Director
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In-house playtesting of Adventure Path 3 won't happen. We don't have the time or resources; simple as that. We do encourage our authors to playtest the adventures though, and in many cases they do so.
As for the still-nameless AP3 (although I've got a name I'm calling it now that may or may not become its real name), it won't be low-magic. It'll be the same level of magic as the first two, it'll build off the first two, and it'll be about as long as the first two.
Big Jim Jacobs and I really need to stop posting right on top of each other. Somebody's going to get confused.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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What would be cool would be an adventure path that uses ordinary monsters from the Monster Manual that are not cross-bread with dragons, or have five classes (Ftr6/Sor5/Rog3/Ass3/Mnk1).
Something classical, simple, yet with a clever twist. Promote those poor monsters that never get to be used.
That's pretty much what we were shooting for with Age of Worms...
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I would like to see something that centers around PCs starting as street-urchins who seek entry into a local thieves' guild. They would have to form a gang of their own or join an existing one and later hope to attract the attention of guild recruiters.
Early low-level adventures would be to prove their mettle to the gang/guild. Then they could be sent on undesirable missions for the guild until they have become trusted members. The later adventures could include a war with a rival guild or other organizations.
I think of it as "The Godfather" or "Scarface" set in Greyhawk, Dyvers etc...
You don't have to. That's about exactly the plot of the first act of "Saga of Old City," Gary Gygax's first Gord the Rogue novel.
You know what would be cool? Printing a new Gord story in Dragon.
--Erik
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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One more thing (this falls into the I want, and not Paizo should do area): I admitingly do not get Dragon. I know, I know, naughty DM. But Dragon is for the Players, and Dungeon is for the DMs, right?
Wrong. Dungeon is for DMs, and Dragon is for Dungeons & Dragons enthusiasts. Seriously. I don't know where the idea that Dragon is for players only came from, but it certainly wasn't from me and it certainly isn't reflected in the content of the magazine (which can at times be too focused on DM concerns).
Just saying.
I have a player who tells me Manzorian has a couple of pools that do cool things when you drink from them. My response: No he doesn't. I would just like for priveledged information to not make it into Dragon...
That was a regrettable failure in our ability to juggle both magazines, and will not be repeated during the Age of Worms or any other similar "crossover" event. Sorry about springing the pool on you.
Decisions are being made as we speak. Many of you are going to get exactly what you're asking for (at least in parts of it), and many of you won't, but all I can say is that I've never been this excited about the direction Dungeon will be taking in my Whole. Damn. Life.
But you'll just have to wait and see what I mean. Mwahahahahaha!
-James
Tease!
As for the still-nameless AP3 (although I've got a name I'm calling it now that may or may not become its real name), it won't be low-magic. It'll be the same level of magic as the first two, it'll build off the first two, and it'll be about as long as the first two.
Shameless tease!
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Decisions are being made as we speak. Many of you are going to get exactly what you're asking for (at least in parts of it), and many of you won't, but all I can say is that I've never been this excited about the direction Dungeon will be taking in my Whole. Damn. Life.
But you'll just have to wait and see what I mean. Mwahahahahaha!
-James
Are there giants?
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I want the next AP to be like a crossover of campaign worlds like what if Eberron invades Greyhawk. The warforged against the Empire of Iuz does have a nice ring to it.
Okay i was asking too much. Heres what i really do want:
1. No more red dragons or any kind.2. No more psuedo-godlings and their strange cults wasting entire centuries on the godlings' release.
3. More interaction with Npcs, the SCAP worked because the relationships between them and the pcs were strong and positive. The AOWAP doesn't because Diamond Lake was made into such a Hellhole,that the pcs will find hard to come back or even care if the town was attacked by Ilthane("A black dragon is attacking Diamond Lake and destroyed Allustan's tower?" "Does the dragon need our help or should we give it a medal?")
4.No more templates and prestige classes(the smoking eye,the wormhunter)the ones from the complete series(arcane,warrior etc.)was enough.
Some of the things I'd like to see:
1. "Themed" Bad Guys. SC has demons, AoW has undead. That made it easy to have a set bad guy to work against, and the ability to work a character concept (favored enemy, PrC, etc.) and I like it. I've secretly been wanting kobold-infested high-level adventures (a la Dragon Mountain), where the "piddly" kobolds are actually the high-rollers instead of demon princes or lesser deities.
2. Opposition from the "good guys." It's often fairly simple to overcome opposition from the CE clerics of an evil god... you kill them and take their stuff. But what if a band of LG Paladins of multiple faiths are banded against the party (not necessarily through leathal means)? Assuming the players aren't evil, this opens up a whole new can of (can I say it?) worms.
3. Alternate story arcs. This would be interesting, but I'm not sure how well accepted it would be. Basically what I'm suggesting is, after the first two or three adventures, the party can go one of two ways, both of which would ultimately lead up to the next arc. This would mean that for three months, the AP will have two adventures instead of one, which is where the problem lies, because the Paizo staff has already said the the AP takes up a lot of space for the magazine. But I think it would be really neat if, instead of going to the second arc (such as the Free City in the AoW) they instead follow up on Ilthane and track him down in his lair, after which they meet up with Manzorian and continue on the main path.
4. Use information from the supplemental books. The APs already do (Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, etc.), but I'd like to see use of Stormwrack, Frostburn, or Sandstorm.
5. Use information from Dragon. This might make some people unhappy, if they need to purchase an older Dragon, but I think it would have been cool to have the Fame points from Dragon #303 in The Champion's Belt written into the adventure. Or have a group of lupins appear, or using any number of new rules/creatures/etc. that are from Dragon.
Plus, to follow up on point 5, several people asked what Dragon issues would be helpful in the APs, so I think using information directly from past issues may actually be appealing, especially to us subscribers that have many years worth of Dragon, just wanting to be used!
Hmmmm. What do I want to see from the next AP. That's easy:
DIRECTNESS AND LESS BEATING AROUND THE FRICKIN' BUSH.
I know the idea of an AP is to take characters from level 1 to 20. Whoo hoo. Big deal.
I'm an adult with a full time job and all that crap. I'd rather see a short AP that is intense, fun, and detailed rather than these AP's that drag the players on wild goose chases and by the middle of the AP finally get down to doing whatever the AP is really about.
With the current AP's especially Age of Worms I tend to have to do this: "Well all this is cool but I know we're only going to play about 1 or twice a month this year for about 4-6 hours each time, so what fat do I have to trim in order to make the story fun, make sense, but still move along so we can actually finish a story for once...." And I know I'm not the only one.
In other words: we are DMs. We can devise sidetreks and extra little adventures to gain the characters XP. We don't need the AP to drag us through the mud of "well they need to gain XP to do this next thing so they have to fight 50 kobolds in a temple completely unrelated to the actual theme of the AP."
...
4. Use information from the supplemental books. The APs already do (Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, etc.), but I'd like to see use of Stormwrack, Frostburn, or Sandstorm.5. Use information from Dragon. This might make some people unhappy, if they need to purchase an older Dragon, but I think it would have been cool to have the Fame points from Dragon #303 in The Champion's Belt written into the adventure. Or have a group of lupins appear, or using any number of new rules/creatures/etc. that are from Dragon.
...
I've got to disagree. Isolated scenarios can use non-Core material with some impunity, but AP3 will be 30% of Dungeon for a year.
It needs to be accessible to everyone, whether or not they've bought various supplements. Including such info in a scenario would be fine, but strong-arming people into buying lots of $30+ books will lose customers (including me).
IMHO :)
Jack
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MONSTERS!
I'd like to see as many of the "iconic" monsters as possible. They don't necessarily need to be adversaries of the PCs, but it sure would be fun to see kobolds, medusa, griffons, hill giants, and the like. New favorites like the chuul would be excellent, too. We've got some of the classic critters in the 'Age of Worms', but it'd be nice to see even more in the future.
ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES!
Too few campaigns make good use of the rules for environmental hazards presented in the DMG. Let's have some scenarios that pit the heroes against the frozen elements, others that find them navigating treacherous mountain paths, and yet another set at sea or another area where drowning is a very real danger. In general, let's get the action outside of the towns and cities and out to places where only the brave or foolish tread.
COMPANIONS AND COMPETITION!
I like the inclusion of the "Free City Adventurers"/Cyric's Band in the current adventure path, but they really don't seem to have reached the 'long-term allies or adversaries' status that was intended when things got rolling. Let's see some other bands of good guys, bad guys, or best of all, in-the-middle guys with whom the PCs can either partner or compete.
CAMPAIGN-SETTING-LITE!
The sidebars and conversion notes are much appreciated. However, quite a bit of text is dedicated to anchoring the Adventure Paths in the world of Greyhawk. I'd rather that tne next AP be written with less specific content rooting the action in any one setting, and the inclusion of Greyhawk notes along with Eberron and Realms notes.
THOROUGH PLAYTESTING!
It's already been said above that it's not going to happen in-house. Please, please take every measure possible to make sure that those who do so outside the office have some guidelines from which to work, and a way for playtesters to submit thoughts and concerns directly to your office for use in final edits. My hunch is that they'd be reluctant to air everything out with a DM if said DM is also their friend and the author of the adventure....
I love the 'Age of Worms' and look forward to the time that I have enough fun money stashed away to buy the 'Shackled City' hardcover. So, in sum, let's have more of the same D&D fun in the next Adventure Path that we've got in the current offerings.
I'd like to see an AP that's 'non-linear.' Meaning that instead of taking the characters from 1-20, maybe you take them from 1-5, then 9-11, then 14-18, etc. That gives the DM some control on where to fold in his/her own adventures and/or other Dungeon goodness. I know it's possible to mix and match with the current AP philosophy, but just makes it easier to 'break the path' and then pick it back up in later levels if there isn't a set adventure for every step in the path. Additionally, you could tie adventures tangentially to such an AP. For instance, when the AP leaves off at level 5, you could suggest other Dungeon or published adventures to fill the gap...thus driving up those back-issue sales... :)