Does anyone in their game system actually use psionics on a regular basis (including psionic combat)? We play 2nd ED and psionic combat by the book is horrible at best, and I've read through 3ED (not 3.5) and it didn't look any better. In the end I ended up completely rewriting psionic combat pretty much from scratch with a whole lot of house rules, but it's still as slow as watching golf on T.V. I'm curious how other DMs have delt with this problem.
I never used psionics in 2nd ed, but there have been psionics in all of the 3.0 and 3.5 campaigns I've been in.
In 3.0, I ran a halfling psion (nomad) from 1st to 24th level. During that time we "updated" the psionics rules to use rules by Bruce Cordell from the books he wrote for Malhavoc Press.
We tried to use psionic combat in unique situations, but mostly we found it really hard to accept psionic combat as an effective encounter tool. The rules from Mindscapes are completely different, and can add different "psionic flavor" if you have enough psionic encounters in your campaign.
Psionic combat got a lot of negative feedback from the core psionic fans, and it was removed from the Expanded Psionic Handbook completely. The psionic combat modes were changed into psionic powers instead, which works just fine.
One of my players just started taking levels of psion, and I plan on including rules from Mindscapes as well.
I've seen some valid comments about psioncs over-powering the normal magic rules, but having played a psion through epic levels next to a wizard through epic levels, I didn't feel that psionics was more powerful or detremental to game balance.
One of the things that does make psionics more powerful at higher levels is the power point system. It allows a psion to manifest more high level powers than a wizard, due to his spell slot limitation.
One of the rules that makes psionics less powerful at any level is the lack of automatic-scaling powers. For example, a magic missile for a 10th level wizard is still just one 1st level spell slot, but it does increased damage. A psion using a 1st level power must add power points to augment the power. All in all, I found that I was spending power points fairly quickly, which kept my psion in check with the party wizard and cleric.
But, yeah... I love psionics. I'll continue to use them in every game I run.
ME! but, its a very very very very very very rare trait in my world.
Does anyone in their game system actually use psionics on a regular basis (including psionic combat)? We play 2nd ED and psionic combat by the book is horrible at best, and I've read through 3ED (not 3.5) and it didn't look any better. In the end I ended up completely rewriting psionic combat pretty much from scratch with a whole lot of house rules, but it's still as slow as watching golf on T.V. I'm curious how other DMs have delt with this problem.
3.5 eliminates psionic combat altogether, and yes, I use the Expanded Psionics Handbook (3.5 psionics). If you're worried about psionics in 2e and 3e, you should definitely check out the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Even most die-hard psionic fans prefer 3.5 psionics as well as the removal of psionic combat. Most, if not all, of the psionic combat modes were transformed into psionic powers.
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We use psionics to good effect in my Eberron game. So far we've had only one character who's picked up a psionic class as their primary class and he's playing a soulknife. If you have access to the Expanded psionics handbook, the soulknife is definitely the easiest to incorporate of the psionic classes. But psionics definitely works better without the attack and defense modes. I tried using them in 2nd ed, but they just bogged things down and the only psionics that were regularly used were the powers
Yup. Last character was a Kalashtar Psion(egoist). Poor guy got TPKd. Stupid age of worms.
Now that I'm the DM, I actually use psionics extensively. My pcs just don't know it yet.
Dabbled with it in 1st edition--the stuff in the old PH, but it kind of sucked and haven't used it since. Don't plan on using it either...the game is complex enough as it is.
You've gotta love 1st edition.
Roll d%.
Did you roll double zeros?
Yes? Then you're profoundly better than everyone else.
Love it. Use it all the time: 3.5ed that is, I don't mess with that psi-combat stuff. Probably about a quarter of all my own PCs and about a third of my campaign material uses psionics.
You've gotta love 1st edition.
Roll d%.
Did you roll double zeros?
Yes? Then you're profoundly better than everyone else.
LOL....I liked the "open-ended" D100 rolling system from Rolemaster/Spacemaster, though....they had the BEST critical tables....darn it, did I go off topic again??? Psionics..me no like.
I LOOOVVVEEE Psionics! I ran an extremely successful campaign a while back, but the concept was really fun - all the PCs were psionic, but they were the only ones they knew of with these weird mind powers...fun! Later on they encountered other psionically powered characters and monsters. Also my campaign had a real Eastern feel to it. A samurai soulknife, A magistrate psion (telepath) and a half-giant demon hunter psychic warrior rounded out the cast. We had some good times.
I let people use it, but I prefer if its all or nothing - the whole party or no one is psionic. The reason being that I agree: Psionics are pretty powerful.
Psionics is almost always out-of-whack with the way everything and everyone else operates in most campaign worlds -- to me it's just a jarring anomaly, making suspension of disbelief harder.
Or it's power-gaming out the wazoo.
The places/campaigns it fits in are few and far between.
Jack
That actually does sound like it was a good time, Nicolas...maybe I'm just willing to invest the time and effort to learn the system....and Lord knows, my players fingers bleed profusely every time they have to crack open a rule book and actually READ something.....
That actually does sound like it was a good time, Nicolas...maybe I'm just willing to invest the time and effort to learn the system....and Lord knows, my players fingers bleed profusely every time they have to crack open a rule book and actually READ something.....
Ha! It's true! My players are a good mix of "I-KNOW-ALL-THE-RULES" and "What do I roll?" ;-)
I personally think Psionics works real nice with Far East campaigns. Very Matrixesque.
I love the new psionics. I think it's a great system. I'm just helping a player create a kalashtar psion (shaper) for my age of worms campaign. Of course I loaned him the book...
rooster
Beware: The Age of worms eats kalashtar psions.
Have the XPH, with The Psychic's Handbook coming in the mail. So far, two PCs have played psionic characters in my Eberron campaign; one a soulknife, the other a psion. Thinking about the psion, I think I should check his stats, because he can manifest about 20 powers a day that deal over 100 damage each. (BTW, party is all 18th level. They came up all the way from 1st, with only a few character changes. :)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
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I would use psionics, but alas *sighs heavily* I am without a gaming group. Oh woe is me.
Seriously though, although I've never had the chance to actually use 3.5 in an actual game, it seems that both the magic and the psionic systems are fairly well designed. As far as magic goes, the biggest imnprovement for me was the proper alignment of divine and arcane magic to be more similar. No more figuring out what level a converted a spell would be when converted from one to another. As for Psionics, since they pratically revamped the entire system I'm not as familiar with it as I'd like to be, but it seems OK. Of course, thouse of you with actual 3.5 gaming experience feel free to verbally assault me for my presumption.
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I hate psionics. I never allow my players to use it, I think the system is profoundly overpowered.
I don't think the Psionic-System is overpowered. I also think that it is one of the game systems from 3rd edition that has been created very carefully. I guess that most of the prejudice towards psionics remains from the terrible 2nd edition treatment of the theme.
The revision of the 3rd edition rules was a good move and ensured, that there's nearly no overpowered aspect within the system.Sure, it feels really different than standard D&D, but both systems work together nicely.
I always encourage my players to take on psionic characters, because they're adding flavour and a mystic feel to the campaign.
Does anyone in their game system actually use psionics on a regular basis (including psionic combat)? We play 2nd ED and psionic combat by the book is horrible at best, and I've read through 3ED (not 3.5) and it didn't look any better. In the end I ended up completely rewriting psionic combat pretty much from scratch with a whole lot of house rules, but it's still as slow as watching golf on T.V. I'm curious how other DMs have delt with this problem.
yes i use psionics, in our current AOW campaign I play one half of a Elan Psion Twin pair. Both Kineticists with the Astral Construct power and boosted construcy/Extend power feats.
These ladies put 2 mean fighter types in action and then pummel the Baddies with multiple damage powers
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I definitely us psionics and encourage it. Unfortunately, most players avoid the class, reason being, every other DM/GM i know doesnt allow it. Where as i, allow everything d20--within reason. H-E-double toothpicks, I only allow specialists wizards in all my campaigns and psions with <very> unusual backgrounds. In my campaigns, psionics is rare and virtually unheard of with the human race(most races-in fact.) So either your a scion from a race that is known for psionics or your a wizard/sorcerer class(lots of meditating and controlling ones mind training)and somehow unlocked the potential. Therefore, a psion was a wizard first for a while before unlocking a gift he didnt know he had. Player rolls the dice every level and his chances--per level--get better to become "self-aware." I am a strong believer that if you dont have proper mind training you'll never know you had the potential, for the mind is a muscle and can be developed just like the body. Yes i know the mind isnt really a muscle but the point is still valid. You dont use it, you lose it! My 2 cents.
Thoth-Amon the Atlantian Mindflayerian
Check out the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Don't let the horrible quagmire of 2e psi combat deter you. I'm tempted to throw away arcane and divine magic and run a homebrew world with psionics and incarnum.
I'm tempted to throw away arcane and divine magic and run a homebrew world with psionics and incarnum.
Wooooo! Mo' power to ya! :)
(But seriously, this is a really good idea!)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
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Check out the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Don't let the horrible quagmire of 2e psi combat deter you. I'm tempted to throw away arcane and divine magic and run a homebrew world with psionics and incarnum.
Agreed. Been thinking of doing the same thing. Go for it!!!
Thoth-Amon the Atlantian Mindflayerian
No.
Not a big fan of he concept.
Magic is more than enough to try to get my hands around.
To my thinking psionics is science fiction while magic is for fantasy, they fill the same role in the game, I don't need want two separate sets of mechanics to manage.
Check out the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Don't let the horrible quagmire of 2e psi combat deter you. I'm tempted to throw away arcane and divine magic and run a homebrew world with psionics and incarnum.
Go for it; it would be a Big contrast to "traditional" spellcasting...
Personally, I've never used psionics and doubt I ever will...but the Incarnum+Psionics angle appears to be a good alternate magic system - I just wouldn't dare to mix the two in the same game.
M
Personally, I don't use Psionics in my campaigns; too much additional bookkeeping, and it doesn't bring enough to the game to justify it.
As a player, I've seen it become almost overpowering. For instance, compare Brain Lock and Hold Person. Brain Lock gets one saving throw, and has a duration of Concentration + 1 round. Hold Person gets one saving throw per round, and has a duration of one round per level. Both are second level.
Once the psion gained this power, most fights turned into a delaying action until the bad guy failed his save.
Telas
I think for a player to want to play a psionic character they must have the expanded psionisist handbook. I know that a lot of players stop their collection of D&D books with the PHB and maybe one or two of the complete books. This lack of awareness of the psionic option is part of the problem. I myself have just begun reading through the new book (still feeling burned by the quick change from the first version and another now usless book in my collection...)
Anyway. I like the psionic characters and would welcome any of my players to play one. Part of the problem though may be a general lack of psionic items in published adventures...I would add a few items into ones I ran.
ASEO out
Does anyone in their game system actually use psionics on a regular basis (including psionic combat)?
What most people have said about the 3.5 EPH is true: it made everything so much better. In my homebrew world, psionics were actually more common than arcane magic users in the northern areas, and rarer the further south one went - and the PCs had a fun time learning why. They started in the southern areas, and slowly went north, so at first it was a gentle influx of a bit of psionics here and there, until finally, they were the ones that seemed strange to the arcane-light psionics-heavy folk up north. I also had a sort of "rule of two" magic-and-psionics-not-quite-interchangeable thing going on (ie: if you had spell resistance 20, you had power resistance 18, detection spells aimed at magic took two extra rounds to start detecting psionics, etc etc) to make them slightly different, yet not overwhelmingly so. It was a lot of fun, and a character who began as a vaguely dumb but sweet fighter ended up breaking even as a 10/10 Fighter/Psion (Clairsentient).
In the Shackled City Adventure Path, no one chose a EPH character (and I was a tad relieved, as it would have involved playing with the adventures quite a bit to put some psionic flavour into it, and, quite frankly, I didn't want to - the whole point for me of SCAP was to enjoy being the DM without that huge level of work and time to create a great adventure - it was already a great adventure and written for me).
For Age of Worms? Who knows?
...To my thinking psionics is science fiction while magic is for fantasy...
I agree.
As I've said before, it's a jarring anomaly in most campaigns. Part of good roleplaying is fitting into the campaign world -- how often do cowboys with six-shooters really contribute to the flavor of a swords-and-sorcery world?
There's a place for them, but those are rare.
Just two more cents.
Jack
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I see alot of 'Oh, no, it's different!' in my area, too. Sad, really. For me, gaming is about trying different things and powers.
I use Psionics extensively, and it is a major portion of the powers in my world. Characters must take psionics into account as much as they take magic and faith. They don't automatically have all the answers, and they are forced to take risks that might not work out for them.
Sure, it's a little extra work, but that's my job.
Personally, I don't use Psionics in my campaigns; too much additional bookkeeping, and it doesn't bring enough to the game to justify it.
As a player, I've seen it become almost overpowering. For instance, compare Brain Lock and Hold Person. Brain Lock gets one saving throw, and has a duration of Concentration + 1 round. Hold Person gets one saving throw per round, and has a duration of one round per level. Both are second level.
Once the psion gained this power, most fights turned into a delaying action until the bad guy failed his save.
Telas
Brain Lock just dazes the victem while Hold Person Paralyzes them. The difference is that a held person has a dex of 0 and is vulnerable to a coup de grace attack (essentially a near autokill) a dazed person has their full AC and can't be coup de graced. Pretty dependent on the situation as to which is better.
Me Psionics no like.
I think psionics are fun to play. They add a good mix to the game.
I'm running the City of the Spider Queen module and have started using psionics with the appropriate underdark races (illithids, aboleth, etc.). I think it gives a different feel to those races; makes them more alien. Of course a lot of the psionic powers just replicate spell effects so my players don't necessarily know the difference. But I do so it's all good!
I don't allow psionics in campaigns I DM. I played psionic characters wayyyyyyy back in the early days, and thought even then it was more trouble than it was worth. Now that there are no PC psionics in the PH, that's good enough for me. Psionic abilities, like the mind flayer's mind blast, get replaced with magical equivalents.
My two cents worth (even though it's probably not worth even that much ;)
I'm tempted to throw away arcane and divine magic and run a homebrew world with psionics and incarnum.Wooooo! Mo' power to ya! :)
(But seriously, this is a really good idea!)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
My own homebrew d20 Dungeons and Dragons setting is built around Psionics as the first and natural supernatural power available in the setting. Magic and Arcane / Priestly magic comes in later in the history books and is often considered "unnatural" or "evil".
In my campaign psionics is not described as "psionics" so much as persons perception of what psionics might be. In one culture a psionic character might be a gifted priest, blessed by the saints with the ability to perform miracles while in another culture it might be viewed as a form of witchcraft...people in my setting get burned at the stake for "witchcraft" wielding the same psionics that the uneducated followers of the "holy orders" believe are the blessings of the saints.
