Is there anyone else running or planning to run AoW in the forgotten Realms? I just picked up the July Dungeon and I'll be starting it in two weeks. I'm putting together the DDM mini's and altering Smenks note to Necro boy to reflect Daggerfall and Waterdeep for a handout if / when the PC party gets a hold of the note.
I'd be interested in working with any other DM that's going to run this in FR...
I am also planning to convert the AoW to a Fortotten Realms adventure. I realize, however, that the way Erik Boyd has suggested to covert it means this task is much more complicated than expected. This isn't as simple as changing Diamond Lake to Daggerford and altering the names of deities, if you want to keep in touch with the spirit and history of the Realms.
For starters, Daggerford is an established village with a long history of its own. It isn't a dead-end mining town; it is an important stop-over along the Trade Way. So changing the PCs' reason for being there and/or reason for adventuring is necessary. I may still take Diamond Lake and drop it in some random place as-is, because there is a certain air of desperation in trying to claw your way out of a miserable existence. We'll see.
Second, I'm going for huge historical significance to the adventure path, which means I'm trying to fit the elemental peoples and their whole story of defeating the Queen of Chaos into some period in the region's history. Lost Empires of Faerun has a good "generally specific" timeline you can play with to accomplish this.
That's about as far as I've gotten. I have some time before I actually have to start the path, so I'm eagerly awaiting any more hints or conversion suggestions in future installments.
I'll be happy to share whatever it is I have with respect to converting the adventure.
So placing Diamond Lake somewhere close to Daggerford sounds like a better idea. I don't know a lot about the FR history (yet) so is Waterdeep still a good idea to replace the Free City?
Waterdeep is THE city in FR. You don't even have to follow the "directions" given for Diamond Lake from the Free City. Just put it near a big city anywhere on the map and I think you'll be able to adapt any storyline that runs from or through the big city.
I'm partial to the FR and the extensive history and background that's been created. I'm gonna try to make it work in Daggerford, but it will be much different than originally written for Greyhawk
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As I don't want to mess up Daggerford, I have decided to make Diamond Lake Daggerford's darker cousin to the east.
I have placed Diamond Lake midway between Daggerford and Secomber, on the edge of the Laughing Hollow (which is probably where I will put the Whispering Cairn once I get around to running the adventure).
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I'm surprised that Diamond Lake was not set in a remote location of the Silver Marches - these are still somewhat untamed lands where I could see a town like Diamond Lake residing. You could have Silverymoon as the large city, or even Waterdeep still since it's not a huge distance from the Silver Marches to Waterdeep with a lot of area in between to insert encounters/side quests. I haven't yet decided where I will be running AoW, but if I decide on FR I will probably be placing in the Silver Marches.
I was also considering setting Diamond Lake, as is, up the Delimbyir.
I am a bit reluctant with toppling the current leader of Daggerford and bring in so many change to the city (not to mention the name juggling that the substition of one city for another entails).
I was simply thinking of having "Diamond Lake" be exactly as it is (no name change for locales or people), but situate it a bit higher on the Delimbyir, maybe at a distance of a one day trip from Daggerford, closer to the Forlorn Hills.
Free City would still be Waterdeep and I would stick to Eric's conversion notes for the other places of the AP as well. It would just leave the real Daggerford kind of "in the way", between my Diamond Lake and Waterdeep.
I wonder if this will fit with the next instalments...
Also, I wonder if it would be alright to replace the church of St Cuthbert with Ilmater instead of Lathander? It fits better the whole martyr-thing. I am not sure why Eric did so (i.e. consistency with Daggerford or theological reason). Is there some kind of cosmological secret of the overarching plot that require us to bring in Lathander in the picture? I wonder.
Bocklin
Also, I wonder if it would be alright to replace the church of St Cuthbert with Ilmater instead of Lathander? It fits better the whole martyr-thing. I am not sure why Eric did so (i.e. consistency with Daggerford or theological reason). Is there some kind of cosmological secret of the overarching plot that require us to bring in Lathander in the picture? I wonder.
In another thread James Jacobs recommended using Ilmater instead of St Cuthbert for this very reason. Since I believe he is privy to the overall plot I would feel comfortable making this change.
As for not changing Diamond Lake, I am very much with you. I don't think I want to loose the great feel of this town. Additionally it is a lot less work as has been mentioned.
I would be leary about placing it in the Silver Marches however as we don't know what is needed in the free city. If it needs to be a port town on the ocean that could be an issue (I have no idea if Greyhawk is or not), but I for one would suggest waiting until more are out before running this campaign even though the first adventure is an amazing start.
Sean Mahoney
I would almost argue that a LN deity that has a lot of LG followers is much closer to Helm than any other deity that has been bandied about.
I think where the FR adventure path conversion is going might change who exactly the villains are by the end of the story, as I gleaned from the conversion of the Triad in the web enhancement. It may be that the adventure locales and the monsters end up being the same, but he overall villains and plot are altered to be more Realmsian.
I have noticed that a lot of people are leary of using Daggerford due to changing the established city. My own take on this is that A) you can run the adventure path in an "alternate" Realms that is not your normal campaign world or B) you can make sure that the ruler of Daggerford is not actually dead, just thought to be dead, under the protection of the Lords of Waterdeep, and he can come back after the AP is over. Other than that, it would be fairly simple to get rid of the emporium after the AP, perhaps tying some of the other corruption in town to it and doing a "Scouring of the Shire" epiloge to the AP to get Daggerford back to specs.
I would almost argue that a LN deity that has a lot of LG followers is much closer to Helm than any other deity that has been bandied about.
I think where the FR adventure path conversion is going might change who exactly the villains are by the end of the story, as I gleaned from the conversion of the Triad in the web enhancement. It may be that the adventure locales and the monsters end up being the same, but he overall villains and plot are altered to be more Realmsian.
Actually, in the end I chose to use Helm over Ilmater (but not for the reason you mentioned). I think that the deity choice made by Eric L Boyd in his conversion notes was led by his care of not fudging too much with Daggerford (and to stick with the existing temples), so I hope that there are no plot-need for Lathander (Sean's post seem to indicate that it is fine).
I have noticed that a lot of people are leary of using Daggerford due to changing the established city. My own take on this is that A) you can run the adventure path in an "alternate" Realms that is not your normal campaign world or B) you can make sure that the ruler of Daggerford is not actually dead, just thought to be dead, under the protection of the Lords of Waterdeep, and he can come back after the AP is over. Other than that, it would be fairly simple to get rid of the emporium after the AP, perhaps tying some of the other corruption in town to it and doing a "Scouring of the Shire" epiloge to the AP to get Daggerford back to specs.
Why not, but it is still too much work for me: playing with the names, changing the town, etc. (I already got a full time job ;-)) So I put Diamond Lake along the Delimbyir, half way between Daggerford and Secomber. Since the road there goes straight to Waterdeep (i.e. not through Daggerford)I will simply leave Daggerford out of the picture.
Regarding the mean cult behind it seems from Eric's notes that Jergal is the one pulling the strings (makes sense regarding is special tie to Bahaal, Myrkul and Bane). But of course, we might end up discovering that Shar is the real danger. Who knows?? ;-)
Bocklin
I was also considering setting Diamond Lake, as is, up the Delimbyir.
I am a bit reluctant with toppling the current leader of Daggerford and bring in so many change to the city (not to mention the name juggling that the substition of one city for another entails).
I was simply thinking of having "Diamond Lake" be exactly as it is (no name change for locales or people), but situate it a bit higher on the Delimbyir, maybe at a distance of a one day trip from Daggerford, closer to the Forlorn Hills.
Free City would still be Waterdeep and I would stick to Eric's conversion notes for the other places of the AP as well. It would just leave the real Daggerford kind of "in the way", between my Diamond Lake and Waterdeep.
I wonder if this will fit with the next instalments...
I see no reason this won't work. FWIW, I considered doing the same thing in my conversion notes. I decided that it was more helpful if I showed how to convert Daggerford and left it up to the DM to decide whether to add a new town rather than advocate adding a new town and leave using Daggerford up to the DM.
Also, I wonder if it would be alright to replace the church of St Cuthbert with Ilmater instead of Lathander? It fits better the whole martyr-thing. I am not sure why Eric did so (i.e. consistency with Daggerford or theological reason). Is there some kind of cosmological secret of the overarching plot that require us to bring in Lathander in the picture? I wonder.
I picked Lathander because that was the other major temple in Daggerford (i.e. consistency with Daggerford, not theological). As I mention in the notes, I'd probably pick Helm as the best theological fit if I just added Diamond Lake as a new town up the river from Daggerford. Ilmater is an interesting idea as well, which I had not really considered.
In general, I've seen the outline for the whole plot, but not the specific adventures (they're not done yet), so I could end up making the wrong guess. That said, I see nothing in the notes that indicates the choice of Lathander/Helm/Ilmater to replace St. Cuthbert has any tie to the overall plot or future adventures.
--Eric
I would be leary about placing it in the Silver Marches however as we don't know what is needed in the free city. If it needs to be a port town on the ocean that could be an issue (I have no idea if Greyhawk is or not), but I for one would suggest waiting until more are out before running this campaign even though the first adventure is an amazing start.Sean Mahoney
I believe the city will need connections with the Underdark, so Silverymoon or Sundabar would be fine. The harder point of conversion: The Free City needs some sort of a gladiatorial arena. It's somewhat of a stretch, but I'll be using the Field of Triumph in Waterdeep for the latter conversion. I think this would be a reasonably major add-on to Silverymoon or Sundabar. There may be other requirements I'm not thinking of at the moment.
Also, the second Vampires of Waterdeep adventure I'm hoping can be easily repositioned as a lead-in adventure to the AP adventure published in the same issue (although there will be problems with the targetted level). FWIW.
--Eric
Regarding the mean cult behind it seems from Eric's notes that Jergal is the one pulling the strings ...
In the Realms variant, I intend that the Ebon Triad are a true threat in that the creation of the Overgod is a possible outcome. (In the generic version, they are fools and/or being fooled.) This should have little impact on the adventures (at least until the end, possibly), but it might impact how you present them.
--Eric
Second, I'm going for huge historical significance to the adventure path, which means I'm trying to fit the elemental peoples and their whole story of defeating the Queen of Chaos into some period in the region's history. Lost Empires of Faerun has a good "generally specific" timeline you can play with to accomplish this.
I sent some more to Erik which will hopefully make it into an updated #124 supplement. The jist of it is that the wind dukes were djinni lords of the Calim Empire. Note that as Erik notes in #124, the Rod of Seven Parts (Shattered Scepter of Calim) and the history of the Wind Dukes is not a major focus of the AP.
I believe the city will need connections with the Underdark, so Silverymoon or Sundabar would be fine. The harder point of conversion: The Free City needs some sort of a gladiatorial arena. It's somewhat of a stretch, but I'll be using the Field of Triumph in Waterdeep for the latter conversion. I think this would be a reasonably major add-on to Silverymoon or Sundabar. There may be other requirements I'm not thinking of at the moment. (...)
--Eric
Although it might be really super tough for lower-level characters, Skullport might be a cool alternative to a portion of Waterdeep needed for the gladiatorial arena. It'd also keep the players on their toes, be an interesting intro to the Underdark, and keep the scare factor pretty high. The players could even run into a few evil triad-cultists (maybe some low-level minor acolyte-type villains?) that could be wandering around doing menial chores for their superiors in such an evil sub-city. Then you could have the best parts of both Waterdeep and the pit of ultra-villany that is Skullport. Heh!
In the Realms variant, I intend that the Ebon Triad are a true threat in that the creation of the Overgod is a possible outcome. (In the generic version, they are fools and/or being fooled.) This should have little impact on the adventures (at least until the end, possibly), but it might impact how you present them.
--Eric
I love this... because even if the players prevent the rising of an evil Overgod, it might be a way for Bhaal to make a return in weakened form. Maybe a component of the triad's Overgod ceremony could be the recovery of Bhaal's remaining essence from the Boareskyr Bridge... one of the evil cultists makes a trip to that site and magically gathers the god-essence there (with perhaps a side effect of purifying the waters, making the evil cultist look like a local hero!), and then the Triad has a fragment of Bhaal... so many variants and things that could be done... great fun! Just an idea, though. -John
Hi Eric!
Thanks a lot for your replies and for the tips. It is really useful.
I look forward to reading your next conversion notes. It is really good that you are taking so much of your time to provide us with such excellent support. Thanks!
Bocklin
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I think this would also tie in to the past Adventure Arc from 2e Dungeons (late #60's to early #70's) that dealt with Myrkul's remaining essence & the Mere of Dead Men. I plan to re-vamp these to 3.5e and use them as filler adventures that will advance the plotline of combining the three deities.
Just wondering how it works now that Bane is once again alive? My view is that Bane's minions are the most active of the Triad, though the other sects are growing with converts of Cyric (Bhaal's former portfolios) & Kelemvor (Myrkul's former portfolios).
Anyone else have any thoughts?
I think this would also tie in to the past Adventure Arc from 2e Dungeons (late #60's to early #70's) that dealt with Myrkul's remaining essence & the Mere of Dead Men. I plan to re-vamp these to 3.5e and use them as filler adventures that will advance the plotline of combining the three deities.
Y'know, now that you mention it, I think Eric Boyd wrote one of those "Mere of Dead Men" modules involving part of Myrkul's essence. Didn't Myrkul's avatar explode over the Mere of Dead Men, leaching into the waters or something? Hmm... gunky Mere water with Myrkul's essence... Bhaal in the Boareskyr... did Bane actually fall into the harbor of Tantras after biting it? I can't remember, exactly, but it seems like there's a water theme here!
Food for thought... is the revived Bane really *the* original Bane, or did Iyachtu Xvim usurp the portfolio and start masquerading as his father? If the real essence of Bane is trapped in a mucky part of Tantras's harbor, then these cultists might be planning a unification ceremony involving lots of water. Which would be an interesting counterpart to the Wind Dukes (Efreet).
Im after a bit of info on BANE, BHAAL, and MYRKUL. I dont have my books to hand and was wondering if people can give me a heads up. I know they were slain during the times of troubles and the ebon triad are trying to merge the three gods into big uber god.
Where do the cultist's get there spells from if these gods are dead, has anyone taken their place. Bit confused and i know i should know this. All i can drag up from my memory is Cyric took over Bane's portfolio. Any info would be great.
SC
Im after a bit of info on BANE, BHAAL, and MYRKUL.
Here's some information on Myrkul and Bhaal.
Myrkul:
http://www.davidcwood.com/adnd/campaign/evil/myrkul.php
http://www.phantasia.dk/wrathweb/roleplay/ad&dweb/gods/gods0009.htm
Bhaal:
http://www.davidcwood.com/adnd/campaign/evil/bhaal.php
http://www.answers.com/topic/bhaal
Note that this might not correspond exactly to the information in Lost Empires of Faerûn.
Thanks lash that helps, im still confused in that the clerics that worship the dead three, how do they get their spells granted to them?? Do i give them domains from the dead three or how do i work it??
Thanks lash that helps, im still confused in that the clerics that worship the dead three, how do they get their spells granted to them?? Do i give them domains from the dead three or how do i work it??
In Lost Empires of Faerun, we introduced the mechanic of a new feat, "Servant of the Fallen". It gives a minor bennie (+1 luck bonus, IIRC) and allows you to get spells from a dead god. It also gives you the domains and favored weapon of the dead deity.
In my conversion notes for AP#2, I will be suggesting which feat to drop from the clerics of Bhaal and Myrkul and replace with Servant of the Fallen, and how to change their domains and spell selection to match their new patron. Mechanics-wise, this is the only real change, IIRC.
--Eric
Hi Eric,
One more question: in LEoF, there is a Feat that represents some kind of pact between the character and Jergal (I don't remember the name, but it gives an edge against undead, something like a bonus to resist negative levels).
I am afraid that one of my players has taken a liking in the Feat and might soon ask to take it. Without giving out too much of the plot, would you allow it? Maybe it would be better (principle of precaution) to simply disallow it for the time being and see which direction things will be taking?
Any tip would be welcome! Thanks in advance.
Bocklin
In Lost Empires of Faerun, we introduced the mechanic of a new feat, "Servant of the Fallen". It gives a minor bennie (+1 luck bonus, IIRC) and allows you to get spells from a dead god. It also gives you the domains and favored weapon of the dead deity.In my conversion notes for AP#2, I will be suggesting which feat to drop from the clerics of Bhaal and Myrkul and replace with Servant of the Fallen, and how to change their domains and spell selection to match their new patron. Mechanics-wise, this is the only real change, IIRC.
--Eric
:) Mr Boyd as always you appear on your white charger and save the day. It may be a cloudy wet day in London but you bring a ray of sunshine. (is that enough of a grovel)
Thank you, that is exactly what i was after Eric. Cheers, buy your self a pint on me
Regarding "Jergal's Pact":
I am afraid that one of my players has taken a liking in the Feat and might soon ask to take it. Without giving out too much of the plot, would you allow it? Maybe it would be better (principle of precaution) to simply disallow it for the time being and see which direction things will be taking?Any tip would be welcome! Thanks in advance.
Ooh, this is an intriguing twist.
Taking this pact now should throw your player into an ethical quandary down the line. To me it sounds like a great source of future role-playing in the "crisis in faith" sense. I'd allow it, unless your player is not one to handle such a situation well.
Note, however, the role-playing potential stems from the role-playing implications implied by the feat's names. The granted powers are irrelevant.
--Eric
Thanks, Eric. That is exactly what I was "afraid" of... ;-)
I think I am just too curious to see how that one player handles the situation and will allow it (if he is still interested by the time he reaches his third level).
Thanks again for your prompt reply and availability.
Bocklin
Regarding "Jergal's Pact":
Ooh, this is an intriguing twist.
Taking this pact now should throw your player into an ethical quandary down the line. To me it sounds like a great source of future role-playing in the "crisis in faith" sense. I'd allow it, unless your player is not one to handle such a situation well.
--Eric
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Just a thought here - what if Cyric were used in place of Bane in the AP? Even though he's not dead, I'm sure he lost some power with the return of Bane. Plus Cyric has always been very power hungry. I could see him hatching a plot to have those still faithful to him attempt to bring together the power of the two dead gods and give it to him to create the Overgod.
Just a thought here - what if Cyric were used in place of Bane in the AP? Even though he's not dead, I'm sure he lost some power with the return of Bane. Plus Cyric has always been very power hungry. I could see him hatching a plot to have those still faithful to him attempt to bring together the power of the two dead gods and give it to him to create the Overgod.
For a hint as to why I chose Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, look at the "Knucklebones" myth in Faiths & Avatars (2e). Jergal sure seems to be behaving oddly ...
Or check a short version here (it is an excerpt from one of the books you can find within the computer game "Baldur's Gate"; it is about the myth Eric is referring to):
http://www.sorcerers.net/Worlds/FR/8.php
I hope this is a legitimate source and does not constitute an infraction to copyright.
Bocklin
For a hint as to why I chose Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, look at the "Knucklebones" myth in Faiths & Avatars (2e). Jergal sure seems to be behaving oddly ...
Hi Eric,
One more question: in LEoF, there is a Feat that represents some kind of pact between the character and Jergal (I don't remember the name, but it gives an edge against undead, something like a bonus to resist negative levels).
I am afraid that one of my players has taken a liking in the Feat and might soon ask to take it. Without giving out too much of the plot, would you allow it? Maybe it would be better (principle of precaution) to simply disallow it for the time being and see which direction things will be taking?
Resurrecting an old thread ...
In my conversion notes for #130, you'll note I was inspired by your question last summer. Now there's a real twist if a PC has taken the Jergal's Pact feat ...
--Eric