DrGames:
I consider virtually every point you raise a plus and a reason to like the series a great deal :)
It is certainly a matter of taste.
The extreme popularity of the new Dark Knight movie bolsters the point that the Fire and Ice writing style is a "currently successful in the marketplace" approach.
Again, I don't think that George is a bad guy, and he is a gifted, gifted author. I just really dislike this series for the reasons that I already mentioned.
Unfortunately for the fans, I also agree that this is likely to end up in the same situation as the Wheel of Time series.
By the by, I think that I could write the last section of the last book now just in case George passes on before finishing ...
"Arya, cast the Sword of Light into the howling void, seal the passage, and let the world heal."
The Outsider spoke, the words coming out in frosty wisps, "no Love. Break the Sword and seal the fate of this world. I will give you back the sight that was taken away from you by man."
For a moment she turned her sightless eyes back towards the Men of the Black and their leader, Jon Snow, and then with one swift movement she drew up her knee, cracking the Sword in half.
A wretched cry of despair rose from the ragged remnants of mankind's defenders who had watched the events in horror.
"All men must die" Arya said, smiling and holding out her arms toward the Outsider.
"Yes, but I will take my time with all of you and savor your suffering for a long, long while" the Outsider spoke.
The horde of the Outsider spilled forward overwhelming the feeble attempts of the men to hold the darkness back for their will had broken with the Sword of Light.
"What about my sight?" Arya asked.
"Oh yes" the Outsider answered and waved his hand absently restoring her vision. "I want you to enjoy watching what you have wrought. As the reward for your service to me, your torture shall last the longest. You shall be the last to die."
HEREIN ENDS THE TALE OF FIRE AND ICE
In service,
Rich
Go to The Original Dr. Games site.
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He's a talented man who writes a mean fantasy series. I even play the card game which is actually pretty solid as CCG's go. It just went noncollectable praise the reaper. Even the board game rocks.
The books for Ice and Fire are also incredible as far as fantasy stories go. Deep and involving, though I kind of sense a theme for what happens to my favorite characters. -.-;
DrGames: I enjoyed Fire and Ice alot, but I very much agree with your opinion on it and applaud you for expressing it as it is against current popularity.
Thats also the exact same way I saw 'Dark Knight'. Once again I thought it was a good movie, just not GREAT for me.
I also believe that "shades of grey" is actually overdone these days. Eight years or so ago it might have been fair to say all or most fantasy had the big good/evil divide. I haven't seen a really good fantasy with a strong positive ending in awhile...
Thanks DrGames.
I have been slogging through this series over the past few months as a warm up for the eventual release of A Dance with Dragons. I personally have fallen in love with the series all over again.
Now don't get me wrong, I love a well-written 'good vs. evil' scenario same as the next fantasy fan. But his writing leaps off the page at you. The level of detail that he brings to his world makes the DM in me weep. His characters are flawed, ALL of them. There is no truly evil person in the books, just as there is no truly good. Just today I was reading the passage where Daenerys is reading a book of stories about Westeros while occupying the final Ghiscari city she conquers (in A Storm of Swords):
The fat leather-bound volume was full of songs and stories from the Seven Kingdoms. Children's stories, if truth be told; too simple and fanciful to be real history. All the heroes were tall and handsome, and you could tell the traitors by their shifty eyes. Yet she loved them all the same.
Real history isn't pretty, and sometimes it is hard to figure out the good or evil in a situation. Vlad Tepesh is a folk hero in Transylvania to this day. Cortes was considered a Renaissance paladin by his contemporaries. While I enjoy the defeat of a villian that is clear cut, sometimes the real villains hide behind a pretty face, like the closest thing the novel has to a real villian(ess): Cersei Lannister.
We love the right to win, but sometimes it is challenging and rewarding to read a series with no clear-cut hero or villian.
my 2 CP
Just an update for the GRRM fans out there. I got an alert from Amazon.com that A Dance with Dragons is going to be available Oct. 27th 2009. I know the date has been put off several times, but I am hopeful the next installment is finally lurching towards print.
Stop teasing me. I think Martin is a performance artist involved in some sort of sadistic rite. :)
Just an update for the GRRM fans out there. I got an alert from Amazon.com that A Dance with Dragons is going to be available Oct. 27th 2009. I know the date has been put off several times, but I am hopeful the next installment is finally lurching towards print.Did you check Martin's webpage?
Long ago he promised that the release date for Dance will be posted there first. I didn't see it when I just checked his page. I'm not sure where Amazon gets their info (probably from hopeful literary agents) but you shouldn't depend on their release dates for Dance.
I'm not particularly pinning my hopes on Amazon, more I am hoping that any kind of release date is better than no release date. I will be an optimist and hope that by next Fall the book will be in my sweaty little monkey paws.
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"A Song of Ice and Fire" is some of the best fantasy fiction I have ever read.
A friend of mine suggested this series and initially I resisted. I am glad that I came back and gave it a second chance. This is probably one of the best fantasy series I have ever read.
Does anyone know when A Dance with Dragons is coming out?
Director of Brand Strategy
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I'm afraid I have little hope that the series will be finished in his lifetime, between the number of books he's adding and the number of years those books are starting to take.
Not to mention the other projects he's got going on, like Wild Cards and overseeing the film adaptations for HBO (I believe). If he wants to get it done, he needs to focus. I live in the next town over from him. I should go stand outside his window offering encouragement.
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I'm afraid I have little hope that the series will be finished in his lifetime, between the number of books he's adding and the number of years those books are starting to take.
Argh! Don't say that, you'll jinx it! I committed to eleven of Robert Jordan's books and he left his series unfinished.
I hope Mr. Martin doesn't do the same.
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I'm afraid I have little hope that the series will be finished in his lifetime, between the number of books he's adding and the number of years those books are starting to take.Not to mention the other projects he's got going on, like Wild Cards and overseeing the film adaptations for HBO (I believe). If he wants to get it done, he needs to focus. I live in the next town over from him. I should go stand outside his window offering encouragement.
He shouldn't be allowed out of his house and involved with other projects until he finishes those damn novels. May be you could tie him to his computer and keep him tapping away at his word processor?!
He shouldn't be allowed out of his house and involved with other projects until he finishes those damn novels. May be you could tie him to his computer and keep him tapping away at his word processor?!
He actually posted a blog about how much he's been harrased by fans who are angry about the book's delays. He felt very down thanks to the constant barrage of negativity with folks wanting the book and mad that he is working on other projects.
He has since written in his blog that he is working hard on the book, but like all art it isn't a 9-5 linear thing. While he feels bad about the delays, he's not going to put out a slap-dash cookie cutter book to please impatient fans. That solution would please no one.
While he feels bad about the delays, he's not going to put out a slap-dash cookie cutter book to please impatient fans. That solution would please no one.
Thank God. King had some great ideas for the end of the Dark Tower series (Thunderclap and the Breakers? How cool is that?!) but think of how much better the last 2-3 books could have been if he'd actually taken his time (and taken himself out of them)!
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While he feels bad about the delays, he's not going to put out a slap-dash cookie cutter book to please impatient fans. That solution would please no one.Thank God. King had some great ideas for the end of the Dark Tower series (Thunderclap and the Breakers? How cool is that?!) but think of how much better the last 2-3 books could have been if he'd actually taken his time (and taken himself out of them)!
True. I think the whole accident and almost dying kind of motivated King to wrap the series up. I believe he said something along the lines of wanting to finish the Dark Tower series and that the accident was a major factor in him finally completing the last three books.
True. I think the whole accident and almost dying kind of motivated King to wrap the series up. I believe he said something along the lines of wanting to finish the Dark Tower series and that the accident was a major factor in him finally completing the last three books.While he feels bad about the delays, he's not going to put out a slap-dash cookie cutter book to please impatient fans. That solution would please no one.Thank God. King had some great ideas for the end of the Dark Tower series (Thunderclap and the Breakers? How cool is that?!) but think of how much better the last 2-3 books could have been if he'd actually taken his time (and taken himself out of them)!
Yep, he said he didn't want to leave the series undone and that the car accident kinda put his mortality in focus. Unfortunately, in hurrying to complete it, he seems to have sacrificed a certain richness to the story. I find the last few books somewhat hurried in feeling. I almost feel as if he just wanted to wrap it up to avoid 'pulling a Jordan'.
Although you can't put a timetable on GRRM's new book, he has intimated in his LJ blog that if all goes well the new one should be ready by Fall. Note, as long as everything goes well.
This could become an industry phrase... If you don't finish a series, you're "pulling a Jordan". Still keen for WoT Book 12, though its not quite the same knowing that Jordan missed out completing his series right through to the end.
Chubs me lad, Many Authors have to paraphrase Monty Python "ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked thebucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN Ex Author!!" Before finishing their series of books.
Such as Frank Herbert, Douglas Adams, Charles Dickens,
have a look here AuthorExistenceFailure
Pulling a Jordan...yeah. I hate it when people pull a Jordan ( = die of cancer.)
Pulling a Jordan...yeah. I hate it when people pull a Jordan ( = die of cancer.)
I didn't mean to trivialize his death O leafy one. Just saying that King was horrified at the prospect of dying without his Magnum Opus finished. So much so that I feel his last few Dark Tower books felt a bit forced.
Jordan's fans were obviously saddened by his passing, and his uncompleted series is now placed with that of other authors taken unexpectedly, like the 8th Dwarf mentioned.
Series fans can get very het up about these things, so much so that GRRM felt the need to set the record straight about how he felt about the email and forum abuse he was receiveing in his blog.
Patrick Rothfuss is feeling a similar pressure as his blog has recently stated with a very funny series of cartoons...>LINK<
Maybe my bad memory...not a big deal, just got my leaves a little ruffled. Honestly, Patrick, I didn't even remember who said it.
Heh, if the fans of GRRM kill him by adding to his stress, they'd get what they deserve.
Edit: Yoda's right. I think what stuck with me was references to his chemotherapy, which for me always conjure up one thing.
This could become an industry phrase... If you don't finish a series, you're "pulling a Jordan". Still keen for WoT Book 12, though its not quite the same knowing that Jordan missed out completing his series right through to the end.
Strange. When the Wheel of Time was first released, I started with the first book, didn't get far. Lost my interest due to "fantasy overload" (I had read one fantasy book after another for many many years and was simply done reading fantasy at that point). I decided to come back to the series when 1)I wasn't burnt out on the genre, and 2) It was completed. I reaffirmed the commitment to read it once it was finished many times over the years.
Sadly, Jordan passed. I've yet to read any of the books. Perhaps when the final book of the series is complete I'll buy copies of them, and give them a read.
Although you can't put a timetable on GRRM's new book, he has intimated in his LJ blog that if all goes well the new one should be ready by Fall. Note, as long as everything goes well.
Unfortunately he also said that about this time last year. I'm sure it'll come out eventually but I won't believe it until I walk into the bookstore and see it on the shelves. Then another 5 year wait for the next one.
Always good to see discussion of GRRM around the interwebs :)
Yup, Bantam and Amazon seem to be getting into some pretty heavy speculating, constantly sticking up speculative release dates and grinning in hope that GRRM will be able to manage it. But as others have said, we will hear on his blog and on his news page when he finishes and not before and not elsewhere. To get this book out in 2009 he needs to finish by the end of June/start of July at the latest, so we should know in the next two months if he's managed it. It's going to be close, and we may end up with the Clash of Kings situation again, where the UK version comes out at the end of the year and the US one comes out at the start of the next.
Hedge Knight fans will be pleased to hear the third Dunk 'n' Egg novella, THE MYSTERY KNIGHT, is finished and will appear in a new anthology called WARRIORS, which will be released in March 2010 and feature new stories from Robin Hobb, Tad Williams and a few others as well as GRRM.
As for the HBO TV series, there's been a lot of news on this recently. The pilot starts filming in October at the Paint Hall Studios in Belfast, Northern Ireland. HBO are casting right now and announcements are expected on that side of things in a few weeks. The pilot script leaked out and was praised by all, since it is very close to the first 80-90 pages of the novel. There's some new scenes (all approved by GRRM, who is serving as producer), mostly giving a better new entrance for Tyrion (he is at Chataya's in King's Landing indulging in his favourite pasttime when Jaime bursts in to tell him they're going to Winterfell). Daenerys' storyline is included (some thought it would be cut). The first line is, "We should start back," and the last line is, "The things I do for love." HBO are probably thinking that there is no way anyone will not tune in for episode two after seeing that :)
The schedule for the TV series is that the pilot will be filmed in October-November and HBO will make a decision on whether to go to series or not in early 2010. Assuming they give the go-ahead, filming will recommence in spring/summer 2010. The earliest the show will air is likely to be early 2011, although late 2010 is not entirely impossible. It depends on how soon they can recommence shooting once the commission is going.
Peter Dinklage cast as Tyrion Lannister in HBO's adaption of A GAME OF THRONES:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i30b29365238b365 2e08e2efdc7f0af62
He was almost everyone's #1 choice from the get-go, so this is very welcome news indeed :-)
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Peter Dinklage cast as Tyrion Lannister in HBO's adaption of A GAME OF THRONES
I hadn't heard about the pilot before this. Thanks folks, this is wonderful news! I can generally count on HBO to put out good quality stuff, and they're really the only ones that could do the series justice. Trying to cram it into a movie (even a mega-movie like LotR) would not do all the sub-plots justice. I'm very curious to see who else they bring on board for this project. I know that this is a "Book" thread, so I'll end this here. *jumping up and down with joy*
And there's now going to be an official computer game as well. Likely to be a few years before we see it. That's in addition to the Total War mod that is now in a playable state.
All in all, a good time to be a SoIaF fan.
And there's now going to be an official computer game as well. Likely to be a few years before we see it. That's in addition to the Total War mod that is now in a playable state.
All in all, a good time to be a SoIaF fan.
The Total War mod is up? Oh man, I've got to get it. You just made my day!!!!!
Also, I just picked up the new tabletop RPG and gave it a readthrough- it's a great game, very reminiscent of old school d6 Star Wars. I haven't played it yet, but I always had fun with Star Wars, so I think I'll enjoy this one too.
Yeah, I need to pick up the new RPG as well. The GoO system was solid (I'm going to borrow the shield and diplomacy/faction rules and possibly weld them to 3.5 for my next D&D game) but the new rules, by all accounts, fit the setting much better.
DrGames: I enjoyed Fire and Ice alot, but I very much agree with your opinion on it and applaud you for expressing it as it is against current popularity.
Thats also the exact same way I saw 'Dark Knight'. Once again I thought it was a good movie, just not GREAT for me.
I also believe that "shades of grey" is actually overdone these days. Eight years or so ago it might have been fair to say all or most fantasy had the big good/evil divide. I haven't seen a really good fantasy with a strong positive ending in awhile...
Thanks DrGames.
Thank you Dan!
I just checked. The new book has not come out yet, right?
In service,
Rich
www.drgames.org
A DANCE WITH DRAGONS will be released on 12 July 2011. That's the final release date for both the UK and USA.
Excellent, if very late, news :-)
A DANCE WITH DRAGONS will be released on 12 July 2011. That's the final release date for both the UK and USA.
Excellent, if very late, news :-)
Putting in for that day off work.
Putting in for that day off work.
Will that be enough? The book is colossal, and looks like it might come in longer than A STORM OF SWORDS.
I'm waiting until I've seen word from George saying that the book is actually done before I get excited. Once he posts that then I'll start celebrating.
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Putting in for that day off work.Will that be enough? The book is colossal, and looks like it might come in longer than A STORM OF SWORDS.
Decisions, decisions...the publication date is five days before my wedding. I don't think I want to try to finish the whole thing before the wedding, and I don't know if my future bride is going to want me to lug it along on the honeymoon, so it might have to wait until we return.
Decisions, decisions...the publication date is five days before my wedding. I don't think I want to try to finish the whole thing before the wedding, and I don't know if my future bride is going to want me to lug it along on the honeymoon, so it might have to wait until we return.Putting in for that day off work.Will that be enough? The book is colossal, and looks like it might come in longer than A STORM OF SWORDS.
You know what you have to do, Pulp.
Pastor: Do you, Pulp, take this woman to be your lawfu- What are you doing?
Pulp(flipping pages): I'm with you Arya. I mean, Pastor. Keep going.
Decisions, decisions...the publication date is five days before my wedding. I don't think I want to try to finish the whole thing before the wedding, and I don't know if my future bride is going to want me to lug it along on the honeymoon, so it might have to wait until we return.
Remember not to invite any troubadours or cackling old 90-year-old men!
And remember it's, "I do," not, "Just so."
Also, it's "To have and to hold, 'til death do us part," not, "Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death."
:-)
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Remember not to invite any troubadours or cackling old 90-year-old men!And remember it's, "I do," not, "Just so."
Also, it's "To have and to hold, 'til death do us part," not, "Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death."
:-)
But if I don't invite the troubadour, who's going to play "The Rains of Castamere?" That's kind of integral to my plan...
I'm waiting until I've seen word from George saying that the book is actually done before I get excited. Once he posts that then I'll start celebrating.
I too will reserve my *squees* of joy until I have the book physically in hand, but this is a good sign, right from GRRM: LINK
And the TV series starts 17 April... looking like a good Summer for the coming Winter! :)
I've been waiting so long that I had forgotten who GRRM was.
I must confess I stopped going to GRRM's blog because he hadn't been giving any updates..
now to give a July date...well,thrilled of course but nervous about what would happen if it gets delayed again..
The current situation today is the GRRM is revising and putting the finishing touches to the final chapter. He has zero new material to write from scratch.
In addition both the UK and US publishers have already copy-edited and typeset everything else. They've also finished the new maps and appendices and the new covers(as you can see from the links) are done and ready to go. The UK publishers have even said they've already ordered a monumental ton of paper to print the thing with.
A STORM OF SWORDS was turned around in three months, so they've given themselves an extra month just in case any unexpected problems arise, but this is happening. And Bantam have dropped a metric ton of cash on the marketing campaign for ADWD, featuring the release date prominently. If they screw it up, it'll be expensive to fix it.
But if I don't invite the troubadour, who's going to play "The Rains of Castamere?" That's kind of integral to my plan...
Remember not to invite any troubadours or cackling old 90-year-old men!And remember it's, "I do," not, "Just so."
Also, it's "To have and to hold, 'til death do us part," not, "Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death."
:-)
If you are going to do that, put it up online. I gotta watch that.