uh....Wesley Crusher didn't write it... but yea...
I never said Wesley Crusher wrote it. I was basically saying that I'm not anti-Wil Wheaton because of Star Trek. My opinion of the column isn't based on a bias toward or away from him. but yea...
Wil Wheaton should do a column about the response to his column.
Okay, I'm appologizing ahead of time because I didn't have time to read this whole thread and if nothing else just count this as one more vote if it was brought up already.
I really like the Wil Save article but I think it belongs in Dragon with the other more 'generic' D&D stuff. After all, most of his argticles aren't about DMing, they are about life as a gamer.
I really like the Wil Save article but I think it belongs in Dragon with the other more 'generic' D&D stuff. After all, most of his argticles aren't about DMing, they are about life as a gamer.
Bull's Eye! Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. You've hit the nail on the head.
Wil Save is DUNGEON's Jar-jar Binks
ASEO out
While I have not changed my thinking that Wil Save should be terminated immediately for reasons I have earlier set out, I find I do not disagree with your post, as I read it, but rather, I agree. It would be great if Wil Save were improved to make a connection that I now don’t feel, but not feeling that connection and holding out no reasonable, IMO, hope for such an improvement, I am forced to remain in the No-Wil-Save column. However, that in no way detracts from my appreciation of your, IMO, outstanding post. Very well written.
Thanks! :-)
In regards to Wil's writing style... Yes, you're right, he's got a very consistent tone through all of his writing. My feeling is that Wil very quickly reached a level where his writing was "good enough" and has never felt a need to really stretch himself. There are times when he writes a lot better, generally when he's passionate about something, and that's convinced me that he's got the potential to be a much better writer than he currently is. If he put his passion for gaming into his writing, Wil Save would be a work of art. I know it can happen, but it's looking less and less likely with each month. He's just not progressing, and it disappoints me. :-( I don't know if it's that he's scared of going the wrong way so he's not willing to push himself, or if he just doesn't realise that he's holding back, or if he maybe just doesn't have the passion he should have for the topics he's writing about.
Another possibility (Erik, I'm looking at you here!) is that Wil's work isn't getting a critical-enough review from the editors. There are a number of good authors out there who depend on a good editor to shine, and Wil's still at a stage where he needs someone who can tell him, "This is OK, but you can do better so I'm not going to accept it." As a writer, it always sucks to be told that, but it's good for you to hear it.
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To light a candle in Wil's Favor,I enjoyed #120 Wil Save. I liked the humor shining through in each sentence, i liked Wils self-mockery and I liked the fusion of Real Life and Game World elements.
I absolutely don't care if his article is not D&D-related. D&D being my favorite game, I also enjoy Steve Jackson's games and I especially like Munchkin, so while this article was not relevant for D&D-only-gamers, it is relevant for gamers in general.
As I have stated some time before, I'm searching for entertainment in the Dungeon Magazine. I find entertainment in the great modules offered in the mag (whether I use them or just read them),in the Campaign Workbook, and I find it in Wils Save.
If you insist that each and every page of the Dungeon has to be D&D related, ok that's your opinion. But that does not make Wil Wheaton a bad writer (I agree he will not win the Nobel Prize in the near future but the same goes for everyone in the games industry) or Wils Column a bad series.
So if you don't like it, just don't read it, there are quite obviously a lot of people who DO enjoy this article, which means that this column has its rightful place in the Dungeon.
yours, Wormy
On a side note, Wil was on the Travel Channel's World Poker Tour Celebrity Home Game last night. I only saw the beginning (it started at midnight EST and I had to work today) but he was on with Levar Burton and the drummer from No Doubt. Hopefully I'll catch a repeat.
He was playing for some group that protected people's privary rights online. Oh, he also used the word "fanboy" which I thought was slightly humorous.
I haven't read Wil's column since the whole "He Hate Me"-Wesley Crusher-bashing-means-I-can't-game-with-Steve Jackson-farce. The fact that he stretched it over two magazine's columns was even more regretable.
In fact I don't even think about the column till I see some post on this thread and I get sucked back in again... It's almost like the last couple of pages don't exist in my magazine, blissfully ignored.
Please, for the love of humanity stop posting on this thread.
So, I'm reading issue 121, and I get to Downer. Only one page left and no Wil Save. but then I flipped the last page over...And there it was. The blatent advertisement for a show on Dragons on Animal Planet. Oh yea, and next to it was the add for Wil Wheaton's Blog. But I decided to look away from the car crash. No doubt that this is the one time Wil actually took the fact that DUNGEON is a D&D magazine to heart. I'm sure that he has finally decided to cater to the D&D audience and grace us with some relevant DMing experience. But I've decided that Wil could be giving out winning Lotto numbers and I would ignore his blather. So I didn't read it, and don't plan to. I did accidentally catch the title. Um.. Wil, DUNGEON is %#$&*ing D&D Dude!
In the event that it once again didn't have anything to do with D&D and once again focuses something else I'll just say..."Man! Catch a clue!" I'm sure that will spark a page about how he played in a celebrity "Clue" tournament where he solved the game because Professor Plumb did it in the Parlor with the frigg'n lead pipe.
Wil Save is DUNGEON's Jar-jar Binks
ASEO out
Well, I wasn't going to post about this month's Wil Save article, in the hopes this thread would die a slow, painful death - but since Aseo bumped it anyway... :)
I enjoyed this month's article. Sure, at first glance it looks like this article is about Magic: the Gathering. At least we have the right company now, huh? And on second glance, it sure appears that the article is once again about his relationship with his step-son.
In my opinion, though, those two glances are only partially correct. Maybe it's because I have kids now, but at least to me this month's article went deeper than M:tG and deeper than his games with his step-son. It's about generations - in particular, it's about gaming generations. It's about how a game can allow two people from different generations and different backgrounds to have something in common - a common focus, a way to hang out and talk and get to know each other better.
Would the article have been better if Wil had used D&D instead of Magic? Probably. But if all you get out of this month's article is, "Wil played M:tG with his step-son. Whoopie!" then you've missed the point of the article - again, at least in my opinion.
For some reason, maybe because I'm left handed or have had moderate head trauma in my youth, I flip through magazines backwards. I start at the back cover, and so I read Wil Save first and Eric's letter last. Over the past few months, this worked well, as I was disappointed in Wil's article and pleased with Eric's. But I like this month's (issue 121). It competed against an excellent Letter from the Editor, but was enjoyable nonetheless.
Why can some people write articles and other's cannot? Take Erik's article about his exploding dog and the adventure he wrote when he was seven years old. Man, that brought a smile to my face and I liked Erik. What is it that Wil is doing wrong that Erik isn't? Is he too cold or is he just trying too hard to connect to his readers? I really cannot connect with Wil at some level when he is talking about his gaming experience, his Steve Jackson references or his trips to Vegas. Maybe Wil just doesn't have the gaming experience that touches base with the rest of us or he is just not talking about it enough. Hey Wil, write about the real stuff, man.
I have read approximately half of Wil's articles but I am led to the conclusion that this column is nothing more than a celebrity attention grab on the part of the editors of Dungeon. Frankly, I feel the whole thing sucks. Big time. Epic-level sucks. It is a badly written train-wreck of an article that should never have seen the light of day. I must seriously contemplate what it was the editors were smoking that day they let Wheaton in the door. Seriously, people. If the article were at least somewhat redeeming, I might see the whole point to it, but it is otherwise bereft of any quality that might keep me tuned in. And the worst thing is that people know it, and yet they let this parade of mediocrity continue unabated.
To list the shortcomings would wear me and the reader out too quickly, so I'll touch on the main points thus far. Simply put, Wil barely cares to address the one subject he is entrusted to write about, but he does, however, seem content to blather on about himself, Wil Wheaton, the phenomenon of modern gaiming. Do I care to read about Wil the man-child? Hell, no. I don't wanna hear the nerd-grows-up-to-be-a-bigger-nerd tale that Wil's been schleping about the circuit for how many years now? Go back to Star Trek, Wil. Leave this game to the big boys. No one gives a crap about your Steve Jackson obsession or how many millionaire gaming buddies you have. Just go away. And pronto. If we wanted a piece of steaming prose, we would go to the wizards boards, or even your blog, but don't subject us to this torment any longer. Go out and get a job that keeps you as far away from Dungeon as possible.
love,
DFA
P.S. You suck.
For the love of God, Mr. Mona, please cancel this thread. How many different ways can how many different people say they hate the column?
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For the love of God, Mr. Mona, please cancel this thread. How many different ways can how many different people say they hate the column?
Better to keep a contained area in which to spew our venom.
Of course there are people that have crossed the boundary of good taste in explaining why they don't like the article. That happens on many random threads. This one is a little more volatile, but it still has merit.
Since I wanted to complain about Wil Save, I have read Wil's Blog at least three times a week. That is sufficient to keep current, because he posts around that number of times. Sometimes I read two blogs at once, but yes, I read it.
Now, I still don't like Wil Save. The difference is that his blog isn't supposed to have a purpose. His Dungeon column should. I'm not sure what purpose he attempts to fill, but I don't think he is succeeding.
Well, DDM, I'm going to have to disagree with you about there being no "purpose" to this month's article. As I said (not too far back, actually), I got a lot from this article. It's an interesting look at how different generations view games, and how one generation can hand the game down to the next.
I absolutely would love to see Wil focus his articles on D&D rather than SJ Games, M:tG, etc. Dungeon is, after all, a mag about D&D. But I think this month's article was the most thought-provoking one Wil has produced so far. It's most certainy a big improvement over his last two, and I hope he continues to show this sort of improvement.
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I agree with Zherog's last two posts and I would like to add another thing, since some people like to compare Erik Mona's editorial with Wil's Save.
When I had bought the new issue, I read first the editorial, then I went to the back of the mag and read Wil's Save - i enjoyed both.
As I said, i agree with Zherog's view of Wil's Save. The fact is, I basically understood Erik Mona's column the same way. Does he write about D&D? Sure he does. But is this really the editorial's topic? I don't think so. The editorial is about Erik's excitement he feels when he prepares his new campaign, it's about the excitement he feels when he shares his gaming experience with his friends. Would it really make a difference if you would replace Greyhawk by another world or D&D by another game system? I think the feelings would stay the same and so would this editorial's value.
The same goes for Wil's Save. Is it important that he prefers to use M:tG as a vehicle for his thoughts instead of D&D? No it isn't and for the same reasons it wasn't in Erik's editorial.
So does Wil's Save has a purpose? Sure it has and basically it has the same purpose than Erik's Editorial has : To share the love both feel for their hobby with their readers who feel the same. If anyone of you thinks that he or she has to make differences, (s)he should be aware, that there aren't so many; instead there are quite some similarities, since both authors are gamers and both feel the same excitement when gaming.
Yours, Wormy
Beyond being in DUNGEON, the big problem I have with Wil Save (and critisem should be confined to the page Wil Save, and not the writer Wil Wheaton) is that it might as well be about baseball. It has no relevance to D&D in particular, and he could have been writing about not wanting to share his catchers mit with his son, or about how the Yankees are his favorite team, or about how when he goes to ball games he gets invited to the delux boxes. You can take any of his pages and replace any game reference with baseball, and you get the same non D&D related dribble that should be posted in POLYHEDRON had that mag not gone belly up. Perhapse the reason POLYHEDRON and AMAZING STORIES and UNDEFEATED have retired, or at least taken a siesta is that they tried to reach to large of a customer base by diluting their content, and not focusing on their basic core audience. Having Wil Save in DUNGEON is like adding a poorly written short story to the Magazine. I say if you want a Bolg go to the Web. If you want a short story read FANTASY, or DRAGON. And what is with making Wil Save an add for Wil's Blog. The first ones didn't do that.
DUNGEON should is and should be for DMs. It should have adventures, DM tips, adventures, maps, adventures, new creatures, adventures, new enemies, adventures, side treks (not to be confused with Star Trek), advent...Hey I think I just hit on something...When the call went out for Side Trek articles, someone abviously misread it as Star Trek and hired Wil!
Mystery Solved. Now print Wil Save in red and beam it to some planet.
DUNGEON is for DMs about DMing. Keep it that way.
Wil Save is DUNGEON's Jar-jar Binks!
ASEO out
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DUNGEON is for DMs about DMing. Keep it that way.
As soon as you tell me, when Erik Mona (or another former editor of the DUNGEON)made this statement and when it was printed as the DUNGEON's one and only guideline.
You know, I have no problem with the fact that you don't like Wil's Save. That's your opinion and I respect that. But I don't think that you're more qualified than I am to decide what should be printed in the DUNGEON's pages. So please don't tell me what I should read and where I should look for the things I enjoy. And I promise not to tell you to stop reading the DUNGEON if you cannot enjoy each and everyone of its pages.
Yours, Wormy
P.S. no offense meant, but you should really accept,that things have not necessarily to be bad, 'cause you don't like them. As long as there are enough people who enjouy Wil's Save the editorial staff is right to print further parts of the series. And reading through last issues Prison Mail (and through this thread) it seems that there are quite some people who really like it.
DUNGEON is for DMs about DMing. Keep it that way.
As soon as you tell me, when Erik Mona (or another former editor of the DUNGEON)made this statement and when it was printed as the DUNGEON's one and only guideline.
You know, I have no problem with the fact that you don't like Wil's Save. That's your opinion and I respect that. But I don't think that you're more qualified than I am to decide what should be printed in the DUNGEON's pages. So please don't tell me what I should read and where I should look for the things I enjoy. And I promise not to tell you to stop reading the DUNGEON if you cannot enjoy each and everyone of its pages.
Yours, WormyP.S. no offense meant, but you should really accept,that things have not necessarily to be bad, 'cause you don't like them. As long as there are enough people who enjouy Wil's Save the editorial staff is right to print further parts of the series. And reading through last issues Prison Mail (and through this thread) it seems that there...
No offence taken.
Truth: DUNGEON is about D&D (there have been the occasional Super Hero, Boot Hill, and Top Secret adventures back when those were TSR products)
Truth: There has never been anything about M:tG, Baseball or a Steve Jackson Game other than as an advertisement in DUNGEON.
Truth: For over 100 issues DUNGEON has contained only Adventures, Side Treks, Maps of Mystery and, Critical Threats. All of which have in game value to a DM.
My contention that DUNGEON is a DM resource comes only from 121 issues that until Wil Save was added, contained 100% content that was of value to DMs. (I'll make minor exceptions for comics which I've discussed on the kill the comic thread. I would like to state that I don't think Wil Save should go just because I don't like it. I like most of the comics, but in the same vein as Wil Save, they don't have DM value and should go. That being said, I have taken things from various comics and worked them into Games. Take Downer's stone boot to replace a missing foot for example.) Take a look at say the first 100 issues of DUNGEON and show me something that a DM could not use. Have I liked all the adventures? No. one in particular "Patchwork", still ticks me off. But I realize that some DM out there could use it. I'd like to know if there has been anything from Wil Save that anyone has been able to use in a game. After 100 issues...100 issues...Something that has no DM in game use is put in the magazine. I think that it is fairly obvious that this is a change in DUNGEON away from the previous 100% DM useable content that May not have been advertised, but was the truth of DUNGEON.
Sure I'm not in a position to say what should or shouldn't be printed in DUNGEON, but ask yourself:
Would you want DUNGEON to start caring random photos of people playing baseball?
What is the difference between that (I'm sure there are plenty of Baseball fans that buy DUNGEON) and running a page written about some game other than D&D?
Are the comments about somebody about playing a random Steve Jackson game any more relevant than comments about Baseball?
Lets say I don't play Magic or and Steve Jackson games. How do the comments of someone who does relate to me?
Now, is there anyone out there who reads DUNGEON that does not and never has played D&D?
I think we can agree that DUNGEON is about D&D.
Wil Save often has not even the slightest D&D reference.
Is it enough to say the author is a "Gamer" (what does that mean anyway...Say I only play D&D.
Is the author of Wil Save more of a "gamer" than me? if so, does that matter?
Take the actual articles in the back of DUNGEON. Campaign Workbook is written by people who actually play D&D. The articles are not about the authors, but about D&D. The articles have values to DMs. I have no beef with these articles.
Based on the history of DUNGEON, and the rest of the current content, Wil Save is obviously an outcast from the norm of the magazine, and that is why I say it should go.
Is there anyone here who actually reads Wil Save now, but wouldn't read Wil Save if it was posted on the Paizo web page instead? So why not post it here. Since it isn't taking the place of anything else that would be in the magazine (like a Map of Mystery or the like) why put such a obviously mis-located page in the magazine? specially when Paizo had so many other magazines that would have been prime locations for Wil Save's stories about the author playing non D&D games that have no value to DMs. But maybe that type of thing is what killed the other magazines in the first place.
Erik has never answered the question: Why DUNGEON?
As for prison mail...I've watched it over the years, and it is often used to project the staff's prospective. Go back and look. For every complaint that is printed "to show that all the letters they get may be printed" in the following issue there are a couple letters attacking the complaints of the previous letter, and lauding the adventure that was complained about. The comments on Wil Save are the same way. While I've told Erik that I don't feel the need to have any of my posts here printed in Prison mail, I think there are ample examples of people with critical views of Wil Save, but yet no prison mail letters form them... take prison mail for what you want. I don't mind in the magazine since it actually deals with the adventures in DUNGEON, and thus D&D. The same goes for the editor's page. This can not be said of Wil Save.
Like Jar-jar, Wil Save seems to be a pet project or friendly favor of someone on the Paizo staff, which like Jar-jar detracts from what could be the perfect product.
I hope I answered your questions. Please let me know if you have any more on this topic, and I'll gladly answer them too.
ASEO out
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What is the difference between that (I'm sure there are plenty of Baseball fans that buy DUNGEON) and running a page written about some game other than D&D?
Are the comments about somebody about playing a random Steve Jackson game any more relevant than comments about Baseball?
Lets say I don't play Magic or and Steve Jackson games. How do the comments of someone who does relate to me?
While Magic and SJG are fantasy games, basketball isn't(i play it myself but i wouldn't want to read about in a Gaming Magazine). So the connection between those games and D&D ismuch closer than between D&D and Basketball.
And since there are people like me who are interested in other fantasy games as well they don't mind reading about other games especially when written in an article about gamers rather than the game.Since it isn't taking the place of anything else that would be in the magazine (like a Map of Mystery or the like) why put such a obviously mis-located page in the magazine?
Since it isn't taking the place of anything else, why to bother about its appearance? And in my opinion it is an obviously good-located page.
Erik has never answered the question: Why DUNGEON?
I would like to hear this answer as well and maybe, we would get a better foundation in our judgement of the staff's decision to put Wil's Save into the mag.
Finally I do agree with you that DUNGEON is about D&D; i even agree that it should concentrate on D&D stuff. But I don't agree that the mag should absolutely be self-limiting in its content.
By the way, I haven't found any use in Downer so far. I don't even like the strips since (in my opinion) it doesn't tell a good story and it's art doesn't meet my taste. Though it is of zero relevance for me, it wouldn't ask anyone to delete it from DUNGEON since I am aware that other readers find it entertaining and some may even find it useful.
Wil's Save does help me to see through another gamers eyes. I admit that it is not relevant if it's Wil Wheaton,Erik Mona or Monte Cook offering this service to me. I would it find exactly as helpful if you or another player would write it. As a DM there is nothing more important as to know what other gamers like. And that's true for players with or without D&D-Background. So at least for me, Wil's Save is absolutely releveant and it may even influence the way I DM since it reminds me what the game is all about : fun,excitement, entertainment. And this insight is exactly what I often missed in the DUNGEON's pages in the first 100 issues
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I wanted to avoid jumping in again immediately, because I would love to see some response to Aseo's questions. I think he really hit the nail on the head. While Dungeon doesn't need to be STRICTLY limited to D&D, it should certainly be the focus. I personally have played in several RPG systems. Most of my friends that play D&D have not.
I purchased a subscription to Dungeon because I want help with my weekly game session. I want adventures, critical threats, and maps that I can drop in my game without hours of work. I think that it would be wrong if subscribers try to change the "basis" of the magazine. Trying to convince the magazine to change "non-core" items doesn't really matter. I encourage you to state your dislike for Downer. Just because some people like it does not mean it needs to be in the magazine.
Now, Dungeon has this to say about itself:
At 100 pages monthly, Dungeon provides an exclusive source for new official Dungeons & Dragons adventures, maps, and other necessary tools for Dungeon Masters, the most-dedicated players in the D&D hobby. Dungeon includes content written specifically to help experienced DMs and new players interested in taking up the reins of Dungeon Mastering. Each issue contains:Three complete adventures by some of the best-known authors in the roleplaying game industry. Each issue presents an adventure appropriate for low-, mid-, and high-level characters. No matter the experience level of your players or their characters, Dungeon's got you covered.
Monthly columns by Monte Cook (author of the Dungeon Master's Guide)
and Wil Wheaton (star of Star Trek: The Next Generation and Stephen King's Stand By Me).
The Campaign Workbook: Invaluable tips and tricks for beginning and experienced DMs.
In addition, Dungeon often includes feature-length plug-and-play campaign locales geared for immediate insertion into any D&D campaign, articles approved for play in Living Greyhawk (the world's largest D&D campaign), articles presenting new official monsters, and poster maps of exciting high-adventure locales perfect for your campaign.
If you ever watched Sesame Street, you might remember a game called "Which of these things isn't the right thing? Which of these things doesn't belong?"
I think it is kind of silly when people who support Wil Save argue that the PRIMARY purpose of this magazine should be entertainment. It shouldn't be. If it were entertaining, I wouldn't subscribe. It should be useful. Now, obviously not EVERYTHING can be immediately useful to everybody. Still, if it tries to be useful, I can live with it. I don't think Wil Save is trying to help DMs. It might be trying to entertain. It might be trying to "reflect" on our hobby, and provide insight into the kind of people we are. But it doesn't. Dungeon is a magazine for Dungeons and Dragons. I don't play Magic: the Gathering. I'm also not using D&D as a way to connect with step-kids. While his experiences may be meaningful, they are not geared toward "helping DMs".
You know what I would like to see instead? I would like to see a column from a Player's point-of-view describing the things that DMs do wrong. Every DM has bad habits that annoy or drive away some players. Or at least, every DM goes through a phase. Having a player describe what "DMs do wrong" might allow me to recognize myself without becoming "defensive" if my players bring it up.
I really think Monte Cook (iirc) has covered that a little, at least theoretically when dealing with "DM vs. Players".
As Wil Save stands now, it doesn't relate to D&D, so perhaps it should not be in any Paizo magazine. More importantly, it does not help DMs, so it does not belong in Dungeon. Aseo is correct that it would "fit" better in Dragon. Dragon is a magazine for "D&D enthusiasts". While Wil has not talked about D&D very much, it might be better there - particularly if in the future he can refocus on the game which is the magazines' namesakes.
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So what you're basically saying is that I'm reading the DUNGEON for the wrong reasons ;)
In fact, while I don't deny its overall usefulness, I don't find much in DUNGEON which is useful for ME(!);
- the adventures? I don't need them, it's easier for me to make my own as to adapt them to my campaign (with the exception of the Adventure Path, which I liked to much to ignore it)
- Dungeoncraft? Monte Cook has not written anything so far I didn't know before ( or have learned anywhere else)
- the Campaign Workbook? Ok, here you get a whole bunch of Ideas for interesting NSCs, Items and location, but those things I can find in the DRAGON as well.
- Downer? I stated my dislike before.
- Wil's Save? I won't insist on its usefulness, since i basically don't read it for this reason.
So if it isn't cause of its usefulness, why do I buy and read the DUNGEON? Answer: cause its entertaining. The Adventures are well composed and even if I don't use them I really like to read them. I read Monte Cook's Dungeoncraft column basically for the same reason - it entertains me. I give the Campaign Workbook articles a brief overwiev, and if I see something interesting, I enjoy to read it (and sometimes I use it in my own campaign.
And why I read and like Wil's Save, I have explained more than one time.
What is really useful to me are Background articles (Tomb Raiders,Mesopotamian Mythos, the petit Tarrasque,to give some example). Ironically enough, I do find those pearls in the oh-so-fluffy DRAGON Magazine.
So while I admit, that this page could be filled with more D&D-related stuff, and therefore could increase its "usefulness" for other readers, its lack of direct D&D-relevance is for me no reason to complain about. I would complain if it wasn't entertaining and to me, it is.
To say it once more, I can see and accept your point, that anything in the Magazine should be D&D-related, and if it were, I had no reason to complain either, as long as it is entertaining. But I won't agree, that this column is badly written, just because some people don't like it (and that's an often used argument against Wil's Save).
And since I find it to be well written,interesting and entertaining, I will gladly read more of this column, and if I cannot use it in my campaign, I don't care.
Yours, Wormy
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So what you're basically saying is that I'm reading the DUNGEON for the wrong reasons ;)
I kind of expected that. In short, yes. However, as I'm sure you know, it is more complicated than that. In any form of publication, there is some kind of "theme". If you read the newspaper, you are going to find information on current events. That is the "theme". If you read "Entertainment Weekly" you're going to find out information about celebrities. That is the "theme".
Now, there is nothing wrong with being entertained by those magazines. However, their "purpose" is not to entertain so much as to educate. Entertainment is a legitimate by-product. Likewise, I am entertained by Dungeon. However, I can get entertainment by checking out a book at the library or turning on the TV, neither of which costs me money. If Paizo wanted to publish "Brett's Magazine" in which every article were dedicated to entertaining me, I doubt I would complain. However, I don't expect them to consider my interests when putting their magazine together. I like anime, and I like 19th century literature. If they put more than 2 pages of either in the magazine, I would stop subscribing. If I wanted a magazine on anime, I would get a magazine on anime.
You're lucky to find parts of the magazine entertaining, but I don't think you can make a legitimate argument that entertaining its readers should be the purpose of Dungeon. But, if you would like to - be my guest.
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Even in a newspaper, you will normally find some pages, which serve the reader's entertainment rather than his education. Does this lower the newspaper's value? No it doesn't, as long as those pages aren't used to replace something which fulfils the newspaper's overall purpose.
Does Wil's Save replaces anything "useful"? The official answer is : No! So does it lower the Mags overall value? No!
Instead it gives us some additional entertainment (for those who can enjoy it).
D&D and DUNGEON have something in common: they are entertaining. If D&D wasn't entertaining, I wouldn't play it. And if DUNGEON wasn't entertaining, I wouldn't read it.
So, in my opinion, entertainment is what it's all about, and it is exactly as useful as it is entertaining. I can see no wrong in this view and if you prefer to emphasize the Mags necessity to be useful, it doesn't disprove my position.
But I think I'm repeating myself and so I will leave the arena (at least until next month, when this discussion will begin anew ;) )
Yours, Wormy
A thought... I've been reading through the last two pages of posts, and I have this to say about Wil Save: It should be supported by all of us.
Let me explain why . . .
Dungeon Magazine cannot be for purists only. If that were the case, the magazine would die with us. One of the primary goals of a business should be the expansion of it's market. A good way to help expand that market is to have a celebrity fluff piece, like Wil Weaton's column.
Whether he seriously tries to relate to the D&D gamer, or he just phones it in for 5 minutes every month, really isn't the issue. Personally, I don't care for it, and I don't even read it anymore. But I still think it serves the greater good, because it may get others interested in the game i.e. buying the magazine.
Without the desire to increase it's overall readership, Dungeon magazine cannot survive indefinitely. It needs money to function as much as any other 'zine, and I think a column for a man who gained his celebrity outside the "D&D field" is a great way to make that happen.
For those of us who like to keep reading all the good parts of this mag, we need to tolerate an article like Wil save once in a while. It's not for a serious gamer, but for the one on the fence who just needs an invitation.
I know this debate has gotten pretty heated. . . I hope I didn't offend anyone.
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Just a few more observations until next month...
1) The staff has mentioned a "bumped-for-space monster". They have also mentioned that it is difficult to include things like epic adventures considering the limited number of pages available. The argument that Wil Save is "just one page" doesn't mean it isn't having a negative effect on the magazine. There are plenty of other uses that 1 page could be applied toward. Wil Save may not be preventing other "regular features", but it reduces the amount of space the staff can utilize for their product. Even if most months they don't have to give up something because of Wil Save, the possibility exists that they might - and the certainty that they occassionally choose not to accept a submission because of length. I'm not certain that three additional pages (Downer & Wil save) would completely eliminate that problem, but it might help to alleviate it.
2) Wil Wheaton considers himself an actor. He has a number of acting credits. He will be in an episode of CSI that airs on March 10th. That is his only movie/TV credit in something like three years, if I recall correctly. Unless you happen to live in the Pasadena area and have been going to ACME Theater, you might find it hard to consider Wil an "actor". He "supports his family" by writing. He has had two books published in the last year. I never heard of those books until I started reading his BLOG regularly. The name Wil Wheaton doesn't mean much to people younger than 18. Most of them still know him as "the one kid on Star Trek". Expanding the audience may be a legitimate necessity, but Wil Wheaton does not have the "popularity" to broaden the appeal the way someone like Vin Diesel might. If Vin Diesel were writing this, I would still oppose the column, but I would admit that it has "celebrity interest".
3) Wil still does not talk about playing D&D specifically. I have not heard him talk about gaming in his blog. I don't think he has a regular D&D group. I know he is busy, and it is possible that he'd like to play, but just can't. His insights are irrelevant if he DOESN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME. It's killing me that he can't include a legitimate gaming reference in his columns. His "+1 Wand of Winning" still makes me angry.... I don't mind if he is secretly laughing at all of us GEEKS. I just don't like him pretending to be one also. I mean, maybe he is a geek too, but it isn't a D&D playing Geek. That's like throwing HAM radio operators in with us. I wouldn't want a column by one of them just because they know what it is like to be picked on in Junior High.
I have returned (posted a few times a while back in Wil's defense) and much to my chagrin, I have switched camps. Wil Save was okay the first few columns, an annoyance the next few, and flat out irrelevent now. Wil rarely bothers to make a reference to D&D at all. And, as many have pointed out, THIS IS A D&D MAGAZINE.
Please. Even if you don't put anything in its place, remove Wil from my Magazine. I do like how you've put an ad on the back of it occasionally. That way, I can cut it out.
The thing that bothers me the most about the growing trend of Wil Save is Wil is writing about himself, not D&D. Would I care to hear about the anecdotes of Elizabeth Taylor and her life story between the covers of Dungeon? No. Then why am I doing this for Wil? Is Wil getting so cocky that he thinks we, the readers, are more interested about HIM rather than what he is saying. I ain't.
Wil has got to get on track here and talk about something D&D related. I did not think he had the credentials to write in this magazine from the first, now he is just proving it.
Well, you are right. Wil doesn't talk about D&D much, and his articles seem to try to evoke a general tone of "gamer-dom", which I can't say is very sucessful. I don't relate to it much, and as I said before, I don't bother to read it. However, I still think he's a great way to drum up new readers. Putting his name on the front of the magazine is still a good idea, and I can get behind that. The only difference between Vin and Wil is that Wil is probably a better writer (and he's willing to do it for cheap since his acting career is so limited).
I liken Wil to the role that Liv Tyler played in Lord of the Rings. I hated that she was there, but at the same time, her presence was beneficial to the movie. Slapping her stupid picture on the poster, and adding a bunch of irrelevant stuff that wasn't in the books, probably DID help those movies make a more substantial profit. Since the movies were such a risk to the studio, the outstanding sucess will allow other filmmakers with a fantasy/science fiction vision to make pictures that I'd like to see.
If we want to talk about space, let's talk about the full page advetisements. I just grabbed a recent issue and counted 22.5 full pages of ads. That's okay, and makes alot of sense. But 7 of those were for past issues of Dungeon and Dragon and for the Paizo website. If you wanna save some pages, advertize the website in small blurbs all throughout, and remove the 3 2-page spreads that show the covers of past issues (Dungeon mag, Dragon mag, and the Adventure Path). With the internet, you don't need to waste the space, especially with the Dungeon mag. audience. By rehashing the website, you could be more effective and add 6 whole pages for cool, juicy stuff. Or, use 3 for outside ads and 3 for gaming stuff, which is still more profitable for all. . .
And as for Wil Save, I still see the relevance. Adding more gamers to my world is a good thing, so I can't begrudge it at all.
I liken Wil to the role that Liv Tyler played in Lord of the Rings. I hated that she was there, but at the same time, her presence was beneficial to the movie. Slapping her stupid picture on the poster, and adding a bunch of irrelevant stuff that wasn't in the books, probably DID help those movies make a more substantial profit.
Hey, we all might have had our doubts before the movies came out, but I thought she was excellent! And most of the material *was* in the books, even if it was in the appendix. : )
If we want to talk about space, let's talk about the full page advetisements. I just grabbed a recent issue and counted 22.5 full pages of ads. That's okay, and makes alot of sense.
Indeed, ads are why we all have a magazine to read!
But 7 of those were for past issues of Dungeon and Dragon and for the Paizo website.
Keen observation. To be clear, we *added* 8 pages to the magazine to make room for the paizo ads. In other words, the paizo ads do not take the place of content.
best regards,
rob
Ah. . . thanks for the news about adding the pages, Rob. Open mouth, insert foot. I hope I didn't sound too negative about the ads. I was just trying to gain a little perspective on the 1-page only "Wil Save." You guys put out a helluva good product every single month, and I'm happy that it's here.
As for Liv Tyler, I stand by my psuedo-angry opinion of her and her expanded role in my beloved Tolkein story. . . LOL. It'll take time to exercise the proper demons and let go of my uninhibited rage. Anyone know a therapist?
Oh yeah, to keep this posting relevant to the discussion... um, save "Wil Save!"
Interesting discussion on the possible reason for Wil Save being that DUNGEON needs a celebrity name to increase sales.
1. Erik, is this true?
It would seem more likely that Wil needed another outlet to pump his "Author" image.
Either way, I'd bet that Wil has been contracted for a annual period, so like it or not it will be around at least until the initial contracted period is complete.
2. Erik, what is the duration of the current Wil Save contract?
As for the need for DUNGEON to branch out beyond D&D to increase its reader base, isn't that what POLYHEDRON (which was cancelled) and UNDEFEATED (which has basically been cancelled) were about?
It seems that DUNGEON has done well as a D&D magazine and should stay that way.
Which leaves back at THE QUESTION:
3. Erik, Why is Wil Save in DUNGEON?
ASEO out
One of these things is not like the other...One of these things doesn't belong...
Anyone catch Wil on CSI last night? Pretty small role but let's hope it will lead to bigger stuff so he doesn't have time to write.
Hey AESO -
Those are some interesting questions, but I wouldn't think of it as "Wil Wheaton is here to increase sales." Think of it as "Wil Wheaton is here to expand the market and get more people involved in Role-Playing games."
In my experience, there are many people out there who don't play, but may have had it in their mind to try it out for years.
Seriously, there's probably a guy in your neighborhood who has all 7 seasons of Next Gen on DVD, and loves Fantasy Fiction, but just hasn't hit on D&D or role-playing games at all. This guy could turn out to be a great player in YOUR game, if he only knew how much fun it was....
Reading Wil Save, and then flipping through the exotic, action-based pictures, various NPC mugshots, and excellent cartography would stir the blood in the nongaming "gamer" inside of us all.
And let's face it, that person flipping though the mag won't even BUY it. . . he'll just put it back on the shelf. What he MIGHT do however, is head to the Games section of the bookstore and pick up the Player's Handbook.
That's a sucess story in my book, and I think it's a good thing.
Hey AESO -
Those are some interesting questions, but I wouldn't think of it as "Wil Wheaton is here to increase sales." Think of it as "Wil Wheaton is here to expand the market and get more people involved in Role-Playing games."
In my experience, there are many people out there who don't play, but may have had it in their mind to try it out for years.
Seriously, there's probably a guy in your neighborhood who has all 7 seasons of Next Gen on DVD, and loves Fantasy Fiction, but just hasn't hit on D&D or role-playing games at all. This guy could turn out to be a great player in YOUR game, if he only knew how much fun it was....
Reading Wil Save, and then flipping through the exotic, action-based pictures, various NPC mugshots, and excellent cartography would stir the blood in the nongaming "gamer" inside of us all.
And let's face it, that person flipping though the mag won't even BUY it. . . he'll just put it back on the shelf. What he MIGHT do however, is head to the Games section of the...
I just don't see it. "Hey Wil Wheaton plays role playing games. I think I'll try it."
And if it does happen, it will lead the new player to various Steve Jackson games, and not D&D.
Also, if the person has all the ST;tNG on DVD, they are actually probably not a Wil Wheaton fan, because of the poor writing for the character he played in that show.
If they are a Wil Wheaton fan, then they probably read his Blog, (which Wil Save has turned into an advertisement for. At least the truth in that has been revealed.) In which case they can learn about his love of Steve Jackson Games from there.
If the purpose were to expand the market through celebrity authors, then I would think that they would vary the authors to reach a wider reader base, and ensure that the authors pumped the attributes of the company's game and not the competitors.
It is like Coke advertising for Pepsi and then saying well at least new people are drinking cola.
I expect everything in DUNGEON to be D&D related. It is a D&D magazine. I don't want hints on how to build a M:tG Deck or ideas about Car Wars vehicle designs. I want D&D from what has been and should remain a D&D magazine.
Wil Save is like putting naked dudes in PLAYBOY. It's not just evil, it's just plain wrong!
ASEO out
Nice try though WerePlatypus
Things were beginning to get a little heated so I backed off, hoping this thing would die a natural death, but apparently it has not. I commend ASEO for his tenacity and for most posters for sticking to the topic. Let's all get this straight. The criticism here is about Wil Save, not Wil Wheaton, and the topic is about its propriety in Dungeon magazine.
Lest I forget:
Taricus: I have stopped it, and I'm glad some of my points were heard and taken to heart. While I do not consider myself anyone's bodyguard, I find it offensive and degrading to a poster for that poster to write pointless vitriol about a person he's never even met. To a significant extent, asking people not to talk about something they know nothing about is as much a favor to that person as to anyone else.
I do not recall singling anyone out for insults as I try not to insult anyone. I reply specifically to people because I believe that what those people are saying is important. If you happen to voice a concern that I do not think is important, rest assured that I will not waste a second of my time thinking about it after I've read it. I try to take out the mental garbage as well as my own physical ones.
This thread is not for making fun of Wil Wheaton nor for making fun of the President and neither is appropriate. In any case, I feel that insulting people for jokes is lowly, crude, and degrading, and I try my best to lessen the presence of this evil in any way I can.
Re: Gary Gygax. He's a terrible writer. He's a good dungeon crafter, but that's about it. You'll never find his name anywhere on the best seller list on any city and his work reads like a train wreck. You need a modicum of knowledge of the mechanics to make sense of where he's leading and even then he puts it across terribly. I cannot tell whether he's a great storyteller or not, but in the written medium, at least, he's really bad. I never liked Greyhawk very much and a great deal of this is because I could never stomach to read Gygax's work for almost any length of time.
When he writes articles, I cannot and do not empathize with him and his terrible grasp of essay writing flow leaves much to be desired. Ultimately, the stories he does tell ARE very interesting and that alone gives his work value, because his other skills in writing are practically nonexistent. This is the most compelling reason why Gygax will never be able to write prose with any amount of ability.
About Wil: You know what? We don't know if Wil is a good talker. We've probably never heard him speak, and I'm not sure he's too well known as a public speaker or as an excellent conversationalist. What we do know is that his WRITING draws you in and keeps you reading until the end. This is intentional and is the effect of an amalgam of various writing techniques. Whatever else you can say about Wil Save, it's definitely well written and you even agree with me. In contrast, you have to be very interested in what Gygax has to say just to get through any paragraph he writes, much less drag your mind through the morass of his articles.
EVERYONE:
Now, I don't believe that Wil Save is about only D&D or that it appeals to only gamers, but what Wil writes about is relevant to gamers and by extension to many DMs out there. About the worst that can be said about his articles is that they do tend to be a bit abstract and many layered, so apparently, a lot of people simply can't understand the point.
As ASEO puts it:
"So what?"
I find a great deal of applicability to Wil's articles and a great deal of what he writes is about a gamer's life - how things in our games mirror what we experience in life and how gamers relate to it. I guess the sad thing is that Wil apparently has to hamfistedly hit us over the head with what he's trying to say just so we get it. Must be all those years with Gygax.
Let's look at the latest article. You know what? Wil could very easily have made the game D&D. It's an article, it doesn't have to necessarily be real. I mean, who's going to expend money and time to investigate, right? He could very easily have translated his Magic Experience into a D&D slanted account and it would all have stayed the same. Why Magic?
I don't really know. I didn't write the article.
To me, it says that Gamers and passing the game onto the younger generation is a universal experience, not something that only occurs with D&D. Magic is interesting in that its both a popular and mainstream hobby AND fantasy related, and that puts it into a unique position to bridge the gap between D&D and baseball. Baseball players ALSO experience the passing of the torch, and I suppose part of the message of the article is this universality of experience.
It's particularly important to DMs because that's how the game is passed on: typically, DMs take new young players into the fold and the game grows. Perhaps part of the message is that this is happening with Magic and perhaps not as much with D&D. It certainly made me think about how many players I've recently "made," and how many of those were young people. If we can't pass the torch, the flame will die with us. As DMs, the task of passing on the game rests largely with us.
But it's more than that. The applicability of many points in the article is immense and this is true of many articles, even the supposedly lame Vegas card game one.
His articles are about the humanity of DMing and how it affects us in our daily life. He's an actual gamer with varied interests (good writers usually do) so I find it difficult to imagine that he can write about something we don't resonate with. Perhaps the problem is that he resonates TOO well, such that we don't think twice about the things he says. The Wand straw, for example. Doesn't anyone else do this? Does anyone else actually consider that this ISN'T something everyone in the world does? For a nongamer, what Wil did is something completely opaque and bizarre, and for him to do this in a casino... ...well, for me, it makes me think about the distance between gamers and nongamers and why nongamers think fantasy gamers are "weird." The point about it being a casino is that gamblers do this all the time - just not with the fantastic overtones, and few people think they're off their rocker for that. For gambling millions on a roll, yes, but not for kissing the dice for good luck.
Why?
I find lots of articles in Esquire and GQ that are written worse than Wil Save and we could do much worse than Wil Wheaton. Much, much worse.
So it's tangentially related to D&D? Actually, I think it's centrally related to what DMs should be thinking about, but Downer's a much better target for that accusation if you want. Really, what is Downer in the damned magazine for? Is it about D&D? NO!! No more than slews of other fantasy comics out there, and it contributes a lot less to the repertoire of a DM than Les Miserables. For me, Downer contains 1% of the relevant content that Wil Save does, and I could do without it, thank you very much. And that content is mainly nominal lip service to the game on a comic that is very much worthy of the recycling bin.
About Wil: You know what? We don't know if Wil is a good talker. We've probably never heard him speak, and I'm not sure he's too well known as a public speaker or as an excellent conversationalist. What we do know is that his WRITING draws you in and keeps you reading until the end. This is intentional and is the effect of an amalgam of various writing techniques. Whatever else you can say about Wil Save, it's definitely well written and you even agree with me. In contrast, you have to be very interested in what Gygax has to say just to get through any paragraph he writes, much less drag your mind through the morass of his articles.
I find lots of articles in Esquire and GQ that are written worse than Wil Save and we could do much worse than Wil Wheaton. Much, much worse.
Actually I find that Wil Save is horribly written. It misses the target audience of the D&D, and only D&D, magazine it is published in. It is rambling and has no central theme other than that the author is somewhat famous and plays games which might as well be baseball for all their relevance, or lack there of, to the DUNGEON. Is it better than Gyxag? Maybe the two could someday be compared if the author of Wil Save actually wrote something of a D&D nature that could be compared against something that Gygax wrote. Still you seem to be saying that he is at least better than someone who you deem horrible. Not much of an endorsement there. The only things you compare Wil Save to are things you think suck.
Going for "The lesser of two evils?"
EVERYONE:Now, I don't believe that Wil Save is about only D&D...
Dooh, cat's puking again... be right back.
Sorry bout that, I'm back.
I don't believe Wil Save is ever about D&D.
So it's tangentially related to D&D?
Yeah, not so much. You evidently have a great love for Wil
Save. But even you seem unconvinced that it has any connection to say, me. And you are correct. I play D&D. I buy DUNGEON because for over 10 years it has been a D&D magazine. I don't need an existential look into the want to be nerd life of a B actor turned writer who likes playing Hack
Master or some other non D&D game. Making a D&D esk reference won't win anyone my loyalty. Writing an adventure that gets published in DUNGEON, that will. Giving me something that I can use. You bet. But not shairing your dice with your own kids... Whining because your munched out character bites it at first level...dronning on about SJ Games in a D&D magazine...Complaining about being too famous to enjoy things other than playing poker in vegas with millionaires... Way of target.
Actually, I think it's centrally related to what DMs should be thinking about, but Downer's a much better target for that accusation if you want. Really, what is Downer in the damned magazine for? Is it about D&D? NO!! No more than slews of other fantasy comics out there, and it contributes a lot less to the repertoire of a DM than Les Miserables. For me, Downer contains 1% of the relevant content that Wil Save does, and I could do without it, thank you very much. And that content is mainly nominal lip service to the game on a comic that is very much worthy of the recycling bin.
Interesting tactic. Divert the obvious non applicability of Wil Save against Downer. Which I agree could go, even though I like it. Downer is, however, nothing but D&D. Flip through the Monster Manual and the players are all there. The jokes are D&D. The plot is D&D. I'll admit, Downer is no Wil Save. Thank gawd.
I'll gladly drop from this thread if someone will answer my 3 questions honestly.
ASEO
Out
Oh, and since we are obviously stuck with Wil Save for an undisclosed period of time, Would it be to much to ask that it be printed on the back of an add so that when I use it to clean up the cat spew I don't lose a page of, say, Downer.
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Let's all get this straight. The criticism here is about Wil Save, not Wil Wheaton, and the topic is about its propriety in Dungeon magazine.
Generally, I agree with your statement. However, the author of the article is at least tangentially connected with the column. Whether one enjoys Wil Save or not, the question of whether he is the most appropriate author is certainly legitimate. I don't think we need Wil Save regardless of the author. I do think that an author with recognized standing in the gaming community would be a better choice. There are plenty of "famous" gamers known for their writing ability. Some of them write fantasy fiction (Tracy Weis, Margaret Hickman, or R. A. Salvatore come to mind). Others are more involved in game design (Monte Cook) or comics (Rich Burlew [sp?] or Tony Moseley). Well, I'm not so sure about Tony's writing ability, but the others are all rock solid. In any case, I can like Wil Wheaton and still believe he is a poor choice for this column.
I do not recall singling anyone out for insults as I try not to insult anyone...This thread is not for making fun of Wil Wheaton nor for making fun of the President and neither is appropriate. In any case, I feel that insulting people for jokes is lowly, crude, and degrading, and I try my best to lessen the presence of this evil in any way I can...Re: Gary Gygax. He's a terrible writer. He's a good dungeon crafter, but that's about it. You'll never find his name anywhere on the best seller list on any city and his work reads like a train wreck. You need a modicum of knowledge of the mechanics to make sense of where he's leading and even then he puts it across terribly. I cannot tell whether he's a great storyteller or not, but in the written medium, at least, he's really bad. I never liked Greyhawk very much and a great deal of this is because I could never stomach to read Gygax's work for almost any length of time.
When he writes articles, I cannot and do not empathize with him and his terrible grasp of essay writing flow leaves much to be desired. Ultimately, the stories he does tell ARE very interesting and that alone gives his work value, because his other skills in writing are practically nonexistent. This is the most compelling reason why Gygax will never be able to write prose with any amount of ability.
The difference between an insult and an opinion is the statement "I believe", or "I feel". You have insulted Gary Gygax. You might feel this is "different", but I don't. Now, I don't think that insulting people is necessarily bad. You're trying to make a comparison about facts you believe are obvious. I think that Wil Wheaton's article in Dungeon is not nearly as good as his blog. I've been reading that regularly. I don't feel annoyed when I read his blog. I do feel annoyed when I read his article in Dungeon.
About Wil: You know what? We don't know if Wil is a good talker. We've probably never heard him speak, and I'm not sure he's too well known as a public speaker or as an excellent conversationalist.
I know he was hired to do a talk for Apple recently. It was discussed in his blog. Maybe he is a good speaker. That has nothing to do with his ability to write a column for Dungeon.
What we do know is that his WRITING draws you in and keeps you reading until the end. This is intentional and is the effect of an amalgam of various writing techniques. Whatever else you can say about Wil Save, it's definitely well written and you even agree with me.
I don't know that it draws me in. I would suggest using the word "one" instead of you. Generally, it is more correct. The reader is allowed to determine what is true for themselves. The word "you" takes that choice away. I often find it insulting when I'm told what I think, what I feel, or what is obvious.
Now, I don't believe that Wil Save is about only D&D or that it appeals to only gamers, but what Wil writes about is relevant to gamers and by extension to many DMs out there.
So what? Every gamer I know eats food. That makes food relevant to gamers. The inclusion of a recipe at the back of Dungeon would also not sit well with me. If I want a recipe, I'll look in a cook book. I want adventures and DM tools in Dungeon. That's why I subscribe. I read Will's blog to get that little dose of "humanity" that he "displays" in his writing.
About the worst that can be said about his articles is that they do tend to be a bit abstract and many layered, so apparently, a lot of people simply can't understand the point.
At this point it sounds like you're telling me that I don't understand Wil Save, and therefore I'm stuid. I do understand it. I'm not interested. I don't think it fits in with the rest of the content of the magazine. There are as many reasons people game as there are ways people game. I don't have step-children. Even if I did, his "experiences" are not presented in a way to instruct me on the best way to go about it. If it did, I would have to consider it a useful tool for DMs, and therefore appropriate. He is relating a story. The point is to tell us about something that happened. If you draw parallels to your own life, that's fine. It doesn't mean that I have to care. It doesn't mean what he's saying is relevant. It doesn't mean that it is something all gamers should take to heart. There are a lot of things it doesn't mean.
I find a great deal of applicability to Wil's articles and a great deal of what he writes is about a gamer's life - how things in our games mirror what we experience in life and how gamers relate to it. I guess the sad thing is that Wil apparently has to hamfistedly hit us over the head with what he's trying to say just so we get it. Must be all those years with Gygax.
When you say you find applicability, do you mean he describes situations in which you find yourself? Or do you mean he provides instructions to help you deal with things in your game? Because I don't feel any of the former. I also don't feel any of the latter. If it did, I wouldn't mind the inclusion.
Let's look at the latest article. You know what? Wil could very easily have made the game D&D.
I agree. I'd go one step further. He should have made it about D&D. Look at the front cover of your magazine. 100% Official Dungeons & Dragons content. Now, I didn't look to see if it said that, but my Dragon does. Magic the Gathering is not D&D. Even if every player of D&D has played magic at some point in the past; even if it is something every gamer can relate to; even then it has nothing to do with Dungeons & Dragons. I want D&D content. His page does not provide any. I want it replaced with something that does. Would that be so bad in a magazine for D&D?
Really, what is Downer in the damned magazine for? Is it about D&D? NO!! No more than slews of other fantasy comics out there, and it contributes a lot less to the repertoire of a DM than Les Miserables. For me, Downer contains 1% of the relevant content that Wil Save does, and I could do without it, thank you very much. And that content is mainly nominal lip service to the game on a comic that is very much worthy of the recycling bin.
I don't like Downer either. I wouldn't be so foolish as to claim that it is unrelated to D&D. It depicts characters in the game having adventures and using equipment in the game. It isn't for me, but it is D&D related. Wil Save isn't. It's just there.
What I find interesting is the fact that Wheaton refuses to address any of the criticism thus directed at his column. In this, he is fairly unique, since everything gaming figure I know has, from time to time, stepped up to the plate to take on his or her detractors. And it makes you wonder if Wil's silence isn't some form of tacit agreement with the criticism, especially since this is supposed to be his big debut and he has chosen to remain aloof and above the fray of those people he claims to support and game among.
Even in his everyman garb, Wil is still seperated from the gaming community. Even when he's trying to be one of the guys, he's the farthest thing from it. No matter how many posts are devoted to his column, for good or for bad, Wil chooses to hide behind his blog as if nothing's wrong. What a world to live in. D&D seems closer to reality than that.
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First time I've posted here, but I have to ask this. What are the three questions Aseo1 is looking to have answered? The first post seemed to ask Why is Wil Save here and how is it relevant to Dungeon? No offense, but I've lost track of what questions are being asked anymore.
This thread has kicked back left, right, up, down and everywhere in between. The question yourself and others are asking now seems to be "Why is Wil Save still here since we've been railing against it for so long?"
Personally, I like it. It's diversionary from the core of the magazine, just like comics are diversionary from Newsweek, Time, your local newspaper, whatever. For that matter, why does Dungeon include an editorial at all? Why does it have advertisements? It's a magazine, with a core of DM's looking for adventures.
It's the opinion of one person as to what has a utilitarian use in a product. I personally don't find much use for a lot of articles in Dungeon, Dragon, the Economist, Barron's, or a whole host...
My questions, in no particular order of relevance are
1) How many more issues does Wil Wheaton have a contract through?
2) Why was Wil Wheaton chosen originally?
3) Why does the column continue when the subject matter might connect to D&D peripherally if at all.
There might be a few more, but those are my biggies.
What I find interesting is the fact that Wheaton refuses to address any of the criticism thus directed at his column. In this, he is fairly unique, since everything gaming figure I know has, from time to time, stepped up to the plate to take on his or her detractors. And it makes you wonder if Wil's silence isn't some form of tacit agreement with the criticism, especially since this is supposed to be his big debut and he has chosen to remain aloof and above the fray of those people he claims to support and game among.
Even in his everyman garb, Wil is still seperated from the gaming community. Even when he's trying to be one of the guys, he's the farthest thing from it. No matter how many posts are devoted to his column, for good or for bad, Wil chooses to hide behind his blog as if nothing's wrong. What a world to live in. D&D seems closer to reality than that.
Wow. Easy on the hot sauce there, buddy!