Starfinder Second Edition Playtest Rulebook

I'll have to see if my LGS has this in stock to support local.

Yeah, might be worth asking your FLGS if they can order a copy through for you.

Loooool! Honestly, given the number of former players who will continue with the first edition I don't believe that the second edition will last all this time. Since this edition is a too inspired by D&D4 (which didn't last long), D&D5 (while being less good, offering a different alternative like PRPG1 rather than doing something identical was better) and the Forgotten Chronicles (but less well), there is no reason for it to last long. The second edition is the PAIZO's D&D4.

Putting aside whether or not PF2 and SF2 are factually good or bad, the idea that Paizo is going to abandon SF2 after its release in 2025 in anything significantly less than 8 years is shockingly unrealistic. The idea that they would then switch gears to go back to SF1 is arguably even more unrealistic. Among the many factors at play is that the people working at Paizo don't seem to be interested in going backward, and it would take a massive organizational change that could sink the company to make it even remotely possible for them to do an about-face like you're imagining.

If you so strongly believe that SF1 and PF1 are so superior, and there's a massive up-welling of support for them in the playerbase that isn't being catered to, then I sincerely encourage you to try to capitalize on that hole in the market. Time is the enemy to older editions, and the longer you wait the more unrealistic your hope for a return to the glory days of PF1 or SF1 is.

To be absolutely clear, I think you're falling into the classical cognitive bias wherein you believe your experience is more universal than it is, and there is not a big market for more SF1, but what do I know?

Even if there is a market for more SF1, it's licensed under the OGL, which for very valid reasons, Paizo has indicated they wish to move away from.

Ah yes, the OGL situation. Much like a nuclear waste spill, it's just a gift that keeps on giving. We probably did not have that much longer of SF1e's lifespan but I do have to wonder how much longer SF1e would have lasted without WotC pulling the single most anti-consumer move I think any TTRPG publisher has ever managed.

Ah yes, the OGL situation. Much like a nuclear waste spill, it's just a gift that keeps on giving. We probably did not have that much longer of SF1e's lifespan but I do have to wonder how much longer SF1e would have lasted without WotC pulling the single most anti-consumer move I think any TTRPG publisher has ever managed.

Maybe like 3 more years? Long enough to playtest and start to run a system that would soft playtest pf3e ideas? Things as they are now, pf3e will playtest early sf3 concepts (provided it's not a 4-5 year edition from them having the two change in the same step)

The OGL and SF2 shift halted the breaks on what seemed like at least 3 major SF1 books in various stages of development, so it was still going at, all things considered, a steady pace (even if allegedly some SF2 work was already also being done on the side).

I'm surprised that Paizo has not updated the release date.

I'm surprised that Paizo has not updated the release date.

It is still "1 Aug 2024", as mentioned under "Product Availability" under the description. The approximate date under the price is the approximate date when shipping will start for the preorders. (Yeah, it's not clear, but that's how it have been for almost decades now... I expect the "new site" to have it displayed differently)

And shipping will start next week, which is "mid-july".

In the sub thread, the shipping is only delayed a day or two due to updates to how the subscription works, so the current dates for subs are:

•Authorization (Order Spawning) Date: 7/12/2024
•Begin Shipping Estimate: 7/15/2024
•End Shipping Estimate: 7/26/2024
•Street Date for Paizo Products: 8/1/2024

So looks like the street date is still the same!

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs4mcmx?New-Physical-Product-Releases-For-July-2 024

I'm a sub but haven't seen my Authorization order populate. Anyone else seeing them?

I'm a sub but haven't seen my Authorization order populate. Anyone else seeing them?

Authorization was pushed to start today because of a last minute big change to the Starfinder subs (Adventures and APs have been merged into a single sub, as the lines between them have been blurred a lot), so it will probably come later today, or tommorrow at the latest.

Will subscribers be getting the playtest PDF when their orders ship?

Wait, did the PDF thing disappear for anyone else, or is that just me?

Wait, did the PDF thing disappear for anyone else, or is that just me?

No. It's not just you.

It's part of the authorization process.

Will subscribers be getting the playtest PDF when their orders ship?

No.

Starfinder Roleplaying Game PDF: The upcoming Starfinder Second Edition Playtest book does not come with a PDF. This means when your order is ready to be shipped out, you will not be receiving a PDF. This is because the PDF will be released for free on our website on August 1st! This is to ensure that the Playtest starts at the same time for everyone!

I cancelled my subscription for this month (timing issues mostly) but I think that's pretty lame we were only told a few minutes ago PDFs weren't going out early with physical copies. I'm sure that's part of the reason some people wanted it

That's how they handled the P2 playtest.

But as always with subs, never sub with the assumption you'll get the pdf early, it's a nice bonus when it happens, but it's not a guarantee.

Waaait, this is part of the subscription? Got email about order pending

Well, crap, I can't afford 70 dollar purchase this week :'D Crap crap crap

Waaait, this is part of the subscription? Got email about order pending

Well, crap, I can't afford 70 dollar purchase this week :'D Crap crap crap

QUICK! Contact CS!

And remember, contact them via the portal rather than via e-mail. (I've always received nigh-immediate responses through the portal.)

And remember, contact them via the portal rather than via e-mail. (I've always received nigh-immediate responses through the portal.)

Didn't the portal just say to use the email for canceling subscriptions?

Well either way they did answer with email so matter is solved x'D But yeah, I wanna send thank you email due to my panicking, but that would probably reopen ticket accidentally

John Mangrum wrote:

And remember, contact them via the portal rather than via e-mail. (I've always received nigh-immediate responses through the portal.)

Didn't the portal just say to use the email for canceling subscriptions?

Well either way they did answer with email so matter is solved x'D But yeah, I wanna send thank you email due to my panicking, but that would probably reopen ticket accidentally

I used the portal (a while ago, but still) to tell CS I didn't want the playtest hardcopy, but that I didn't know if I could just suspend my subscription for July or if I'd need to cancel it (and then renew it again afterward). The CS person got back to me right away and canceled the playtest book from my July subscriptions, basically just crossing it off my list of this month's orders.

(Since then, on the Paizo site, the playtest book then displayed as "You purchased this," which had me slightly nervous, but when this month's subscription order processed, all was as it should be.)

I'm so confused how you're writing this 5 years on from the release of Pathfinder 2e and the massive success its been.

Massive success? Just that ? We probably don't live on the same planet. From my window I see that PRPG2 sells much less well in stores than D&D 5. Which itself sold less well than PRPG1 in the past. The players and GMs I know who tried the adventure with PRPG2 came back to PRPG1 or switched to D&D 5. I'm already amazed that this system managed to last five years when I see the reviews in magazines and on the internet. Even video games based on PRPG2 rules are very, very far from having the notoriety of a Kingmaker or a Wrath of Rigtheous.

And that makes sense. Before with PRPG1 we had numbers on an adventurers sheet that we added to a d20 and it was quick and simple. Certainly the character sheet could take a long time to establish, but then any beginner could play. With PRPG2 we have words instead of numbers like "Untrained", "Trained", "Expert": we must then ask ourselves, depending on the level of the character, the class, its characteristics, what number this corresponds to before even rolling the dice 20. Too long, too pompous, not flexible enough.

As for classes... what can I say... Take the alchemist for example. Even at D&D5 they understood that an alchemist was not only a chemist but also a steampunk inventor (just look at Leonardo da Vinci and many others). In PRPG2 this class is strangely divided into two: the Alchemist and the Inventor. And where did the alchemist spells go in PRPG2? For example, you want to play a Tinkerer (alchemist) of PRPG1 with the rules of PRPG2, you must already multiclass twice: with an archetype of Inventor and another of Wizard (to recover spells and the possibility of summoning mechanical creatures). Since you have to wait until you have taken two class feats in a selected class before multiclassing again, which are only obtained every two levels (not forgetting the dedication feat), you will not be able to play your character until 'at level 14?!!!

Seriously, is this that you want for Starfinder?

To be absolutely clear, I think you're falling into the classical cognitive bias where you believe your experience is more universal than it is, and there is not a big market for more SF1, but what do I know?

No, at the beginning I believed, as soon as PRPG2 was released and played in playtest, that my experience and that of my group was only a reaction of old players not supporting change. But five years later I talked so much at RPG conventions, read so much on the subject, listened to so many videos on reviews, talked so much with salespeople in specialized stores, that I realized that this opinion was very spread worldwide (at least in Eurasia, the rest I don't know, but I suppose yes). Even on this forum I see that some people don't like the PRPG2 system.

Putting aside whether or not PF2 and SF2 are factually good or bad, the idea that Paizo is going to abandon SF2 after its release in 2025 in anything significantly less than 8 years is shockingly unrealistic. The idea that they would then switch gears to go back to SF1 is arguably even more unrealistic. Among the many factors at play is that the people working at Paizo don't seem to be interested in going backward, and it would take a massive organizational change that could sink the company to make it even remotely possible for them to do an about- face like you're imagining.

There is logic in what you say. I can't contradict you on that. And I understand the threat that WOTC/Hasbro poses to all things OGL. But without talking about PRPG1 or PRPG2, let's just focus on Starfinder 1E (which is still alive, Starfinder 2E is not here yet). That's what I meant :

Starfinder 1E's rules system managed to achieve the perfect balance between the simulationist side of old-school role-playing and the quick, intuitive learning side of recent games. It is the holy grail so sought after by role-players, game masters and role-playing game creators. With these rules PAIZO has something huge.

Much like the Savage Worlds System, the Starfinder 1E system could be adapted in many ways, just by changing the classes and a few details.

We could imagine a Medieval-Fantasy version of Starfinder (which many of us expected for Pathfinder 2E).
We can imagine a version to play in a contemporary fantasy universe (with vampires, aliens and superheroes).
We can easily imagine a version to play in a Cyberpunk universe (Shadowfinder?).
Or even a version that would take place at the beginning of the twentieth century with Lovecraft's monsters.
Or why not a version that takes place far in the future of an interplanetary universe permanently at war (Warhammer 40,000).
And all these versions would be compatible with each other, but also with Pathfinder 1E and the old resources of 3.5. Pure genius.

The Starfinder 1E rules even escape the OGL threat of WOTC/HASBRO.
Since the rules of Starfinder 1E are far enough away not to be threatened, while still being close enough to Pathfinder 1E and 3.5 for possible compatibility.

There was still so much to do and develop based on the Starfinder 1E rules system.
With Starfinder 1E's globally acclaimed rules system, PAIZO held the goose that laid the golden eggs.

Not to mention a large number of fans who are impatiently awaiting a Starfinder 1E video game on the same model as Kingmaker or Wrath of the Righteous (but which would not take up 150 GB of space like a certain Baldur's Gate 3).

And surprise PAIZO throws the goose that lays the golden eggs in the trash for a very criticized system of rules which is very, very far from being unanimous ?! Even if I understand and see that there are still diehard fans (but this was also the case for D&D 4).

There are decisions that should not be made under the influence of alcohol, fear or precipitation.

Loooooooooool

Not adressing all of that but, “PF1 outsold DND5” is a fantasy with no basis XD

Not outselling the absolute best selling system in the market is not a failure you seem to think it is.

Loooooooooool

Not adressing all of that but, “PF1 outsold DND5” is a fantasy with no basis XD

Not outselling the absolute best selling system in the market is not a failure you seem to think it is.

Hah! Yeah, I'm thinking about running through a bullet point list of things that are just categorically wrong.

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I'm so confused how you're writing this 5 years on from the release of Pathfinder 2e and the massive success its been.

Massive success? Just that ? We probably don't live on the same planet. From my window I see that PRPG2 sells much less well in stores than D&D 5. Which itself sold less well than PRPG1 in the past. The players and GMs I know who tried the adventure with PRPG2 came back to PRPG1 or switched to D&D 5. I'm already amazed that this system managed to last five years when I see the reviews in magazines and on the internet. Even video games based on PRPG2 rules are very, very far from having the notoriety of a Kingmaker or a Wrath of Rigtheous.

And that makes sense. Before with PRPG1 we had numbers on an adventurers sheet that we added to a d20 and it was quick and simple. Certainly the character sheet could take a long time to establish, but then any beginner could play. With PRPG2 we have words instead of numbers like "Untrained", "Trained", "Expert": we must then ask ourselves, depending on the level of the character, the class, its characteristics, what number this corresponds to before even rolling the dice 20. Too long, too pompous, not flexible enough.

As for classes... what can I say... Take the alchemist for example. Even at D&D5 they understood that an alchemist was not only a chemist but also a steampunk inventor (just look at Leonardo da Vinci and many others). In PRPG2 this class is strangely divided into two: the Alchemist and the Inventor. And where did the alchemist spells go in PRPG2? For example, you want to play a Tinkerer (alchemist) of PRPG1 with the rules of PRPG2, you must already multiclass twice: with an archetype of Inventor and another of Wizard (to recover spells and the possibility of summoning mechanical creatures). Since you have to wait until you have taken two class feats in a selected class before multiclassing again, which are only obtained every two levels (not forgetting the dedication feat), you will not be able to play your...

We can pull numbers straight out of our backside all day if you want (PF1 outsold 5e? It was proven that even it outselling 4e was an urban myth) but the facts remain the following: Some people (I assume like yourself) still like 1e, Pathfinder or Starfinder. Some people (like me) find it scary, outdated, and obtuse, and prefer the feel of 2e which is in my opinion simultaneously streamlined and expressive. For better or for worse and due to forces outside their control, Paizo is pulling the plug on Starfinder 1e, arguably long before its time, in favor of making a new edition. People of the former group are rightfully upset, and people of the latter group are really excited to finally get to play Starfinder. I am really excited to play Starfinder. Besides, it's not like your system is going anywhere, the old books will probably remain up as long as Paizo stays afloat and (especially if you're right that 1e is actually more popular) I can't imagine the third-party scene just suddenly evaporating even with the OGL scare.

Stuff

I really didn't expect you to come back and I'm not really interesting in a protracted online argument but I figured I'd point out a few places where you're just strictly wrong for the sake of posterity.

First the things we agree on:
-WotC/Hasbro are a negative influence on TTRPGs
-You must be living on a different planet than the rest of us.

Points where you're wrong:
-Saying PF1e outperformed D&D blatantly disregards everything that happened after... 2014 or so when 5e released and D&D got a huge cultural resurgence thanks to Stranger Things and the success of Critical Role. It had been competing against 4e which was massively (and somewhat unfairly) maligned.
-D&D 5e has a truly massive market share, an army of influencers, and probably a century's worth of actual play shows at this point. Not dethroning 5e is not a sign of failure.
-Do you think PF2e character sheets don't have a place to write your total bonus or something?
-Your understanding of medieval alchemy is hilariously lacking. Da Vinci might have dabbled in alchemy but there is a reason we call him a 'Renaissance Man', dude was specifically a polymath. It's like claiming all physicians should be engineers because da Vinci worked in both fields. Medieval alchemists mostly spent their time futzing with half-understood chemical reactions, a bit of astronomy, a bit of demonology, and some highly questionable mathematics in pursuit of various elixirs and other miraculous substances. Mostly they just gave themselves massive mercury poisoning.
-5e doesn't really have an alchemist class, they have a subclass for artificer which does not at all scratch the same itch PF1e or PF2e's alchemists do. It's indicative of WotC's complete inability to come up with interesting new mechanics.
-Your idea of what an alchemist should be is not objectively the 'right' one.
-Anecdotal evidence is not ironclad.
-Starfinder 1e was not immune to the OGL crisis. Drow had to be carefully cordoned off from their remaining releases after it, for instance. Additionally the timeline on the release of SF2e was moved up directly in response to it.

I loved the game but Starfinder 1e had some serious problems. Pretending otherwise is profoundly silly. It was always less popular than even PF1e and was very clearly a testing ground for PF2e concepts. Tighter control on bonuses, the archetype system, the changing role of casters, changing combat actions, item levels. Pathfinder 2e is so clearly your hypothetical 'Starfinder but medieval' but you can't see it because Paizo iterated on what they were doing as opposed to scrubbing off a bit of the sci-fi and repackaging it to cater specifically to your ideal.

Now that Paizo has a tested, robust, and popular ruleset and they're able to more directly threaten WotC's market share after WotC's repeated debacles, they're doing what you said you want... just with a better system.

Like I said earlier, I'm not going to argue this with you. You're just wrong on a lot of fundamental points. Frankly, I'm not even decided on whether you're a troll or not and the truth may be strictly academic. Whether you're here to pick fights out of sincere fandom or just to stir up trouble really doesn't matter. I'm just going to request that you please move on.

I for one love Starfinder, no matter which edition it is on.

I thought people were posting about the info they'd gotten from the book possibly going out to subscribers, and instead, all I find is discourse.

Boo

Sorry about that.

I got my shipping notice this morning and have perused the Starfinder adventure A Cosmic Birthday enough to have discovered the origin of Zon-Shelyn and a few other cool new tidbits of lore. Very cool! I must say I like the origin:

I got my shipping notice this morning and have perused the Starfinder adventure A Cosmic Birthday enough to have discovered the origin of Zon-Shelyn and a few other cool new tidbits of lore. Very cool! I must say I like the origin:

** spoiler omitted **

A Starfinder Society mission came out recently that occurs during the direct aftermath of that.

I got my shipping notice this morning and have perused the Starfinder adventure A Cosmic Birthday enough to have discovered the origin of Zon-Shelyn and a few other cool new tidbits of lore. Very cool! I must say I like the origin:

** spoiler omitted **

OMG. That is so cool.