Ultimate Herbalism
For people who like chaos magic, but don't like randomly killing their party.
Why does this book exist?
Classical chaos magic design is weird. It usually uses the exact same spell list as a wizard or sorcerer, but, for some reason, the world can explode when the chaos mage so much as sneezes. To me, wanting to be the chaos mage, the tabletop equivalent of "that guy", always seemed selfish; moreover, the designs that made "chaos magic" possible seemed a little lazy, for they were almost always something draped over something else that already existed. Nobody wanted to make a dedicated chaos splatbook.
Ultimate Herbalism nips both problems in the bud, introducing a druidic chaos magic system that has been built from the ground up with fun, non-party-killing play in mind.
The Flavor
Herbalists, gourmends, and naturalists are champions of the natural world selected by Mother Nature Herself. In this way, they represent a spontaneous acquisition of power, much like a sorcerer, and not a slowly-learned acquisition of power, like a druid or wizard. Nature's reasons for choosing a particular champion vary widely from individual to individual, but given the variety She maintains in the biosphere to ensure life goes on after a major disaster, this almost-schizophrenic selection process really shouldn't be a surprise.
The Process
1: Each morning, pick random herbs from a selection based on your current biome.
2: Each evening, store leftover herbs overnight day in preservation vessels.
3: When you have enough, plant your favorite herbs in cultivation pots so you always have them.
4: Learn and collect the ingredients for recipes, which give you huge, awesome effects that reward you for being a compulsive gatherer.
Modular Customization
Generous Kickstarter backers have piled on the bonus content in Ultimate Herbalism to make sure the experience any player wants is there with a little twiddling.
A: Give up either the ability to store or the ability to plant in exchange for the ability to collect rocks. Rocks act like detonating AoE herbs, but don't spoil. (Geologist archetype - has its own spellbook)
B: Give up recipes in exchange for the ability to collect bugs. Feed bugs to activate them again and again multiple times per day, giving you a spammable ability if the core system is too random. (Entomologist archetype - has its own spellbook)
C: Force your first herb collection roll of the day to be made in a special high-chaos biome, increasing the chaos for a taste of variety nobody else can have! (Mycologist archetype - has its own spellbook)
D: All of the above - Special care has been made to allow archetypes to stack, utterly transforming the base class with their cumulative effects. Who's up for an entomologist/geologist/mycologist?
Product Features
• 3 base classes, the master chef gourmend, the classic herbalist, and a martial specialist with a pet venus fly trap - the naturalist.
• 3 naturalist archetypes: creationist, mycologist, and sporekeeper
• 9 herbalist archetypes: aromatologist, compounder, entomologist, flowerchild, gardener, geologist, mycologist, poisoner, and zen cultivator.
• 9 biomes sharing a 22-page herb log
• 27 recipes
• 9 microcosms, each with four unique herbs that modify core biome tables
• Over 50 tables. Institutionalized chaos loves tables.
• Over 80 watercolor paintings by my mother, Vera Crouch
Product Availability
Fulfilled immediately.
Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at
store@paizo.com.
This massive first part of the Strange Magic II-project clocks in at 162 pages, 1 page front cover, 1 page ToC, 1 page editorial, 1 page SRD, leaving us with a ridiculous 158 pages of content, so let's take a look!
However, before we do, please be aware that I acted as editor for this project. I was not involved in the creation of the crunch for it, though. Still, as such, I will refrain from rating this book and try to curtail my enthusiasm for it. The system itself is based on Bradley Crouch's second base-class, the Herbalist, which I reviewed back in the day, long before this was even remotely close to an *idea*, much less a finished book. However, this book is, essentially, more than a colossal revision and expansion - a simple look at the page-count will tell you that.
So, first thing you need to know is that the system sports three base classes, the gourmend, the naturalist and the herbalist.
Chassis-wise, they far as follows: The Gourmend gets 1/2 BAB-progression, good Ref- and Will-saves, d6 HD and proficiency with simple weapons and shields, excluding tower shields. The class is subject to arcane spell failure regarding the use of preservation pots etc. when using armor etc. without proficiency. The class gets 4 + Int skills per level.
The herbalist's chasses nets d8 HD, 2 + Int skills per level, proficiency with simple weapons and scythe and light armor and shields, applying arcane spell failure as spoilage chance when using non-proficient armors etc. The herby gets 3/4 BAB-progression and good Fort- as well as Will-saves.
The naturalist gets 3/4 BAB-progression, good Fort- and Will-saves, d8 HD, 2 + Int skills per level and proficiency with simple weapons and martial weapons sans metal as well as light and medium armor proficiency and with non-metallic shields. As before, the class suffers from non-proficiency issues of spoilage for the respective items when dealing with non-proficient armor etc.
Now, all three classes have in common that they employ earthenware jars: Naturalists begin with one such jar and increase that to up to 4 over the levels; the gourmend also begins with one jar and increases this to 6. The herbalist begins with 1 such jar and also increases this to a maximum of 6. Earthenware jars are distinguished in two different categories - cultivation pots and preservation vessels. The naturalist has to choose which one he'll get, respectively, while the herbalist and gourmend track them separately. Plants with the herb descriptor collected can be placed in a cultivation pot - thereafter, the pot yields such a herb on the following morning regardless of environment. Preservation vessels can prevent the spoilage of herbalism plants and products (output from recipes) and each such vessel can contain up to 4 points worth of material, but each vessel can only contain one product.
Basically, the cultivation pots allow you to carry herbs from environments to other places and retain them, while preservation vessels provide a means for preparing one-use stuff and other options...storing up on limited use material, basically.
Before we go into the respective classes, it should be noted that this system is, to a significant degree, druidic chaos-magic: Basically, you roll find herbs each day and consult the table(s) for the biome you're currently in - this roll then determines the plants you get to choose for that day. The classes increase the number of find herbs rolls the respective classes - the higher the level, the more rolls. The classes can all get up to 10 such rolls. The total point value of the respective plants in each entry of the tables for the biomes is the same, mind you: Naturalists roll on tables that provide a value of 6 points worth of plants, whereas gourmends and herbalists roll on tables worth 10 points of plants per entry.
If that sounds complicated, rest assured it most definitely is not - you roll and there you go. Plants generally range in point values from 1 - 4, just fyi - 4-point plants tend to be special plants with powerful effects, whereas the lesser point values represent more common (or more broadly applicable) plants. The presence of jars allow a well-travelled herbalism user to customize his herbs, as he gains various plants from diverse biomes, allowing for a LOT of combos and providing a reason to travel and adventure right there written into the chassis of the system.
There is one more thing to bear in mind - some plants are asterisk'd in the respective table - the reason for this lies in the fact that some archetypes modify the find herbs roll and the base engine, which can eliminate these choices...but more on that later. As you may have noted above, cultivation pots can usually only cultivate plants with the herb descriptor. There is a reason for this limitation in the soft balancing of the class and system, but there are other descriptors like fruit or fungi - with the right feat, these can also be cultivated, providing an even further increased amount of customization options between herbalism users.
Before we get to the plants themselves, it should be noted that all of the three classes get favored class options for the core races as well as aasimar, drow, hobgoblin, kobold, orc, puddling and tiefling - the Interjection Games array of FCOs, basically. So what distinguishes the three classes? Well, the gourmend begins with a culinary background and culinary pool equal to class level + Wisdom modifier. This pool replenishes itself after resting and is primarily used in the preparatory phase of the adventuring day. 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter yield a talent from the selection of the class and the class employs recipes - it begins play with one known and adds another one each class level - these are written down in the recipe book and require a skill-check to pull off; the results of such a recipe spoil over night unless preserved in some way. Furthermore, the class, starting at 2nd level, constructs a familiar out of foodstuff. A fox of sausages? A gingerbread scorpion? All possible. This whole custom familiar-building ties into aforementioned culinary skillsets. These basically can be pictured as orders or the like, but provide more options and imho a bigger impact on playing. Why? Well bakers can create terrain control doughballs that can be further upgraded with talents...and combine such doughballs into gingerbread cookie golems!
Candymakers can create weaponized candy and a vast array of magical truffles! Cheesemakers get a similarly impressive array of diverse cheese types, while specialists of meat can harvest meat and prepare it for buffs...and they know their knives...Finally, preservation brewers can brew certain plants and thus carry more of them around...though the process isn't as simple as it first sounds. These basic culinary skillsets also btw. influence greatly the customization options available via aforementioned talents: New cheese-types, permanent candy weapons, quicker cheese-ripening, gingerbread golems with limited skills and feats...there is a lot of cool customization here...including socketing truffles on ranged candy ammunition. Yes, this may sound ridiculous...it kinda is...but you'll stop laughing when the insane guy starts kicking your butt with candy canes...
The herbalist gets a similar, yet completely different set-up: The class also gets a pool (1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier) and recipes at 1st 2nd and every 2 levels thereafter. As the prime herbalism users, they also get some anti-poison/poison-use-themed abilities and are defined more by their plants and cultivation choices - which can be enhanced via aforementioned pool. The chassis here, in short, is easier to grasp, simple, really.
So, what's the defining trait of the naturalist? Plant companion. These guys carry a huge terracotta pot around with them, and inside is a deadly, carnivorous plant. Like an oversized, mean-spirited pitcher-plant. Or, perhaps more easy to picture, a rabid venus man-trap. This once was an archetype, conceptually, and I complained back then that this should be a full-blown class, with plant-familiar customization. Guess what we got? Bingo! Want your plant to have grabbing roots to spider climb you around? What about jets of acid? Or sickening halitosis? Or a pouch that can transform plants into other plants? Or the option to have your companion produce some plants? To attune to microcosms (basically biome subtypes)...or perhaps you'd like to philosophize with the plant? No problem, it can get Knowledge skills! This is basically the herbalism pet-class par excellence and it really is rewarding to customize the plant with the myriad of options available.
Speaking of options - there are archetypes. A lot of them. One for the naturalist trades the plant and jars for spellcasting. A herbalist archetype specializes on poisons. Zen cultivators use ki (multiclass, baby!) and carry around miniature zen-gardens. Flowerchild herby get a modified familiar, while compounders can use herbalism poisons as cures (!!), which can really help versus unfair arrays of ability-damage spewing foes. Armotalologists can make incense of plants, changing how the base engine of the class works...and speaking of which: Gardeners learn to use their green thumb pool to use special earths that can be employed to modify plants. All of these are impressive per se, but three stand out: The Entomologist, the Mycologist and the Geologist.
In any other books, these guys would be their own classes. In fact, they basically are: While using the common engine, they all have their very own and utterly unique lists of effects: The entomologist catches magical insects (which eat herbs, just btw.); mycologists get a vast array of cool fungi and exclusive tricks...and geologists gain rocks. You know, for the people that are so misanthropic, they even hate plants. ;) Kidding aside, the geologist rocks are also basically their own set of unique effects. While we're at the subject of fungi - there is a fungus variant for the naturalist as well...and an archetype that gets a hive-like amalgamation of fungal material, which can generate a wholly deadly an unique array of spore-based pain.
And yes, the feat-chapter provides MOAR customization for these complex options...and archetypes can be combined, to a degree, with sidebars explaining the multiclassing process and the like
While the respective biomes and lists of them are provided for your convenience, it is amazing to note that the respective plants come with an extremely concisely-presented explanation of how they work - so even if you're not the rules-savviest of players, this should not provide a big hindrance. Plants can provide a metric Ton of different effects - from bomb-like explosions to healing to oil-like applications, going through them all would frankly bloat this text beyond belief. Suffice to say, in the tradition of Interjection Games, you will not find lame "copies xyz"-arrays: There is a ton of material here that does things other systems and options can't do...or does it at least differently, lending a unique identity to the classes and how they play.
Now, I know, this sounds kinda cool, but there may be issue with differentiation in some campaigns. What if, e.g., you travel from a horrid battlefield in the desert to a place in the same desert where horrible things from outer space crashed - are you stuck with the same biomes? Nope. This is where microcosms come in. When in an appropriate environment that would qualify, you can roll on the table and replace the asterisk'd plants with a roll on the microcosm's respective table - and these are not lazy reconfigurations of the regular plant-life, mind you: We actually get thoroughly unique plants! 9 microcosms are provided and since the rules for making your own biomes and microcosms are so simple, creativity is basically the limit. Not that you'd need to anytime soon - with the vast amount of herbs, 9 base biomes, the supplemental engines and the recipes, you can play for years without this becoming stale.
Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are top-notch - or at least I hope so. Layout adheres to a nice two-column standard with a white back ground and nice, green and unobtrusive vines on the sides. The interior artworks are beautiful water colors and original b/w-character artworks, which lend in combination a rather nostalgic and warm-hearted touch to the file. The pdf comes with extensive, nested bookmarks, making navigation simple and convenient.
Suffice to say, I liked the original herbalist and this one-ups the whole thing; no, it escalates it. You see, one issue with chaos-magic and such systems always lies with the chance of being stuck with useless options - and in all the playtesting I had with this engine, I *NEVER* encountered that scenario. The pots-engine allows for a degree of control, but not without rewarding expenditure, not without compromising the chaotic nature that is ingrained in the engine. I consider this a really remarkable and well-made system that has a metric ton of playing mileage to offer. I know that I can't imagine not using this in my game.
But then, while I do not consider myself biased (ask me about stuff I personally wrote that imho isn't up to par and I'll gladly answer), one could consider me biased here due to my involvement with the creation of this book. That being said, there are a bunch of 5-star-reviews for this book out there and if you get this book based on my recommendation and don't like it, contact me. I am positive that, if the concept even remotely intrigues you, you'll love this for its balanced, versatile and well-crafted array of options.
First class, the Gourmend. Poor attack bonus, proficiency with simple weapons and no armor, so these guys aren't meant to be front line combatants without help. If they wear armor they suffer the arcane spell failure chance as a chance of their preservation vessels spoiling overnight.
Stuff they can do includes building a familiar out of foodstuffs. So a lot of options here, from gummy monkey to a cat made out of bacon.
Gourmends choose two cooking methods to specialize in ala sorcerer bloodlines. Bakers can throw dough balls and make gingerbread golems for example. Candy makers can make weapons.
1 minor issue there seems to be a mistake in the chart, in that +4 impact or keen weapon don't have a level requirement listed. I
assume level 20 though, from context.
This class has plenty of flavor (pun intended), but they might be too over the top for some games, and the meat specialization seems to encourage combat a bit more than is healthy for someone who has the combat skills of a wizard. But since I haven't playtested it, my fears might be unfounded.
A mistake at the end, it says that the Gourmend lose class features if they gain a prohibited alignment, since Gourmends have no prohibited alignments that's superflous.
Next up is the Herbalist. Like the gourmend they have options for capstone, which I like. One of them makes their plants sapient enough that they'll stuff themselves in someone's mouth to give them their benefit, or druid spells.
Lots of archetypes here. Like the Compounder who heals through poison or Entomologists, who have a capstone that turns them into the amazing bugman.
Naturalists- Weird weapon proficiencies, they are proficient with weapons with no metal in them. If that means that weapons normally made out of metal that aren't in this instance are kosher is unclear. So the base of this class is having your very own plant companion, naming it Audrey 2 is optional.
Breaks the standard of having multiple possible capstones, at 20th level when killed the plant companion turns the character into a plant zombie. Creationist archetype gains druidic spells in return for a less awesome plant companion and the ability to store their herbs. The mycologist archetype is for those who would rather sic a man eating mushroom on their opponents. Another fungus based option is the Sporekeeper whose companion shoots spores instead of biting.
It provides rules for multiple climates to pick your herbs from and optional rules for microcosms such as evil, aberrant, or arcane, and rules to make your own, which is quite useful.
The material is fun and interesting, and I can see people wanting even more, despite how much material is included here.
I normally don't talk about my job, but when I do...
DISCLAIMER: This review is based on a free PDF provided by the author and the publisher, which in no way had an influence on the final score.
Ultimate Herbalism for both Pathfinder and D&D5e is the first part of Interjection Games third Kickstarter project, Strange Magic 2. It is the complete overhaul of another, older project, called simply The Herbalist, and even if you have it (like I do), you get a much more improved version of the herbalism magic system. Unlike many class books or tomes, Interjection Games creates most of their new classes from scratch and, while some systems are inspired in others (antipodism in shadow magic, aether magic in the 3.5 warlock etc.), most are brand new. Interjection games are perfect for people who are bored of the same Vancian magic and spell lists, the same 3.5 sub-systems. This review tackles the Pathfinder version.
What’s inside?
158 pages of content (for 15 bucks!), which include:
-The herbalism magic system, which is used by the three new base classes. Basically, each day the herbalism-user rolls on a terrain-dependent table (called a Biome) to see what herbs he finds, each herb being a kind of “spell”. To reduce the randomness and let players continue use of their favorite herbs, they get an ability called earthenware jars, which let them cultivate herbs or preserve them and other plant products. These herbs are different depending on the Biome, which gives the herbalist unrivaled variety. No matter where you are, each roll gives you access to 10 points worth of herbs (6 in the case of naturalists), with plants having a point value of 1, 2 or 4, which also determine their power. There are no high level abilities here, since all effects increase with the level of the user. The herbs can also be used to prepare recipes and other plant products, depending on certain class or archetype abilities.
-The Gourmend base class, a flavorful (hehe) class who specializes on using the herbs found to prepare recipes. They are the least combat able of the classes, but get many weird abilities related to food. They get a culinary pool to power some of their abilities. While this is the only class that doesn’t get archetypes, a sidebar mentions how you can adapt herbalist archetypes for the gourmend; however, they are not really needed, since at first level you get to choose a kind of specialization, culinary skillsets: Baking, Candymaking, Cheesemaking, MEAT! and Brewing. Apart from recipes and skillsets, gourmends get culinary talents, with some restricted to certain skillsets. Finally, they get Culinary Bond, which nets them a familiar made of food.
-The Herbalist base class, the original that started it all. An herbalist is a bit better at combat than a gourmand and can also learn some recipes, but they also get the compress ability that mixes herbs in a single usage. They get a green thumb pool to power some class abilities. They also get 9 archetypes, designed for taking more than one.
Aromatologists exchange the ability to make compresses to create incense blocks, which basically give personal effects at range.
Compounders are healers, who can use poisons to heal ability damage they would otherwise inflict with a chance for failure, and placebo sugar pills that give the eater an extra save against ongoing poison or disease effects, both as a replacement for the compress ability.
Entomologists are bug collectors. Bugs are similar to herbs in that they can be found and are terrain-dependent, but need to be fed to be preserved; some bugs have special dietary considerations, and some get more powerful when fed certain herbs. Bugs have a special ability usable once per day, but can be preserved indefinitely. Entomologists loose recipes in exchange for bugs.
Flowerchildren give a lot (earthenware jars, recipes and focused foraging) to gain the companionship of a special familiar. This familiar works a bit different from a wizard’s, growing a specific biome’s plants on its back, for example.
Gardener are the meta-herbalists. They lose a couple of preservation vessels during their career and the potent poison ability to get the green thumb ability to give infuse the soil of their earthenware jars with a so-called “rare earth”, specific meta-effects that enhance plants.
Geologists rock hard! (hehe). In exchange either preservation vessels or cultivation pots for the ability to collect special kinds of rocks which, unlike herbs or bugs, don’t spoil until used, with a hard limit on the number of in possession. Rocks come in three varieties, sharing 3 biomes where they can be found. They are basically triggered area-of-effect mines.
Mycologists exchange their first find herbs roll of the day for a special roll in a unique biome, the fungal forest. They can also exchange none or all recipes gained for special combinatory formulae that, like gardener’s rare earth, modify the effect of herbs.
Poisoners can’t make compresses. Instead, they learn to combine poisonous plants into increasingly deadly cocktails that are applied to weapons. A short but powerful evil archetype.
Zen Cultivators are, you guessed right, monkish herbalists. They replace their green thumb pool with a special ki pool they fill while meditating with the help of a miniature zen garden. This ki pool can be spent on a few abilities and any other class or feat that depends on ki. They also gain some bonus feats.
-The Naturalist base class. They have the least powerful herbalism abilities, but make up for it with a giant carnivorous plant! They get bonus feats and their plant gets access to many talents. They can even get the plant time for a short time! They also have access to three archetypes.
Creationists don’t get earthenware jars (!) and their plant companions don’t get talents, all in exchange for some druidic spellcasting (0 to 4th level). Overall the weakest archetype in the whole book.
Mycologists not only share the name of an herbalist’s archetype, they have their own mini-fungus forest table. Their plant companions can in fact be a man-eating mushroom, which loses access to some talents while gaining some exclusive ones. This archetype doesn’t replace anything, so you can com-vine (hehe) it with the others.
Sporekeepers apparently lose their plant companion, I say apparently because apart from the introductory “facts”, it is not mentioned anywhere else in the text. Instead, they get fungal swarms that are planted in terracotta pots. They can be worn in the back or left on the ground, active or inactive. They get many talents that makes this ability very different from plant companions.
-Feats: All of this section include your typical feats that enhance your class abilities, including very niche feat available only to specific archetypes. The only one that doesn’t follow this theme is the Verdant Protector feat, which inherited the unique, almost-extinct plants available to an archetype of the old herbalist.
-Herbs: after almost 30 pages of tables (9 biomes for the herbalist/gourmand, 9 for the naturalist, and 9 plant summary tables), we get to the meat (hehe) of the herbal magic system. Herbs are formatted with name, followed by the type in parenthesis (be them herbs, fungus or fruit), with some fruits having a descriptor in brackets (similar to spells). They are followed by the biome(s) they are found in, their point value (1, 2 or 4), Duration of the effect, and which recipes can they be used for, if any.
-Recipes: these again have an easy to grasp format, with the craft DC being the most important here. Some of this are the most powerful effects an herbalist can create! A poison that damages all ability scores, the ability to shot spines that do more damage than a kineticist blast, a wine that gives you an alchemical bonus to any ability score, things like that. These are balanced not only by its ingredients, but by their craft DC.
-Microcosms: Not content with 9 (10 really) biomes, this is an optional ruleset that include special mini-biomes each with new, exotic plants! These include aberrant, anger, arcane, evil, good, graveyard, irradiated, legend and sylvan. Imagine your character visits a jungle where there is an ancient temple of a demon prince. Simple slap the “evil” microcosm to the jungle biome and you are covered.
Of Note: The herbalism magic system is advertised as druidic chaos magic, and it shows. Instead of rolling every single time you cast a spell to see if butterflies appear instead of fire, or that your strength spell drains the fighter’s instead of making him stronger, the chaos here happens at the beginning of the day, leaving it to the ability of the player to do with what Mother Nature (and his luck) offers.
If the original system wasn’t enough, Ultimate Herbalism includes food magic, bugs, rocks, soil, fungus… so many new things it can make your head spin! It may be hard to believe but, it is very difficult to point at something that is better when everything is top quality. In no particular order, my favorite are the gourmand, the gardener and the entomologist which, when put on top of the herbalism magic system, bring a lot of variety to the game table.
Anything wrong?: While the book by no means looks bad, it features little art and to be frank, I don’t mind the little art in the book, it’s the repetition of it. However, when the author can pump layer upon layer of awesomeness not only in his rulesets, but in the flavorful descriptions, art becomes secondary. The class and archetype art, while B&W only and a bit on the simple side, goes well with the tone of the author’s writing: Serious with a dash of cheesy and a sprinkle of humor. I also didn’t particularly like the organization, I would have preferred all “spellbooks” at the end instead of in the archetype entries. Also, a section on how to include a new magic system would have been nice, as well as a section on how herbalism interacts with traditional magic.
What cool things did this inspire?: Where do I start? I want a fat she-ratfolk gourmand, cheese maker extraordinaire, from the village of Ash (get it? I AM FROM ASH). An oread geologists who is looking for the philosopher’s stone. A dromite entomologist who wants to create a new race of insect folk. A goran naturalist infected by spores, using both fungi-flavored archetypes. I could go on forever!
Do I recommend it?: If you are tired of casting magic missile, flame blade or cure light wounds, and are up to the challenge of learning a whole new magic system, do yourself a favor and get this book. It is also a blast for people like me who used to collect bugs! I kowtow to the author and offer five flaming blossom stars!
By the way, anyone who is interested at peeking more about the herbs, please go to Drivethrurpg and download the free expansion for the original class (it's awesomely named Welcome to the Jungle). It will give you a taste (hehe) of what to expect from herbalism magic ;)
Trivia: I teach at an agronomy university where you can major in soil, insects, plants or products. I was planning to open a role playing workshop, so I think my students will surely enjoy it more with this book!
Disclaimer: I backed the Kickstarter for Strange Magic 2, and received a copy of this as part of that.
Ultimate Herbalism is, at the time of this writing, the latest of many new systems introduced by Interjection Games... and it's quite different from most such things. But then, different is fun. At its heart, Herbalism is a fundamentally chaotic system where you roll to collect plants from your local region, then use them raw or process them with your recipes to provide various effects. If you like knowing exactly what you're going to have every day, this is not the system for you, although the cultivation pots that Herbalism classes have allow you to make things a little more predictable.
This book includes three new classes (one focused on cooking, one on plants, and one on carnivorous plant companions), plus archetypes, feat support, a wide variety of herbs, and even some sheets that can be used to record how much of your (many) resources you have.
All told, this is a very solid product. It's not something for every game, but if the concept appeals to you, know that your purchase will be getting you an expertly-written, highly flavorful system.
I had absolutely no interest in buying a book about plant magic, and with that description above I really really really wish I had the cash.
Out of curiosity, and this question is to anyone, I noticed the herbalist got the lion's share of archetypes, would adapting some of them to say the naturalist pose much of a difficulty?
I had absolutely no interest in buying a book about plant magic, and with that description above I really really really wish I had the cash.
Out of curiosity, and this question is to anyone, I noticed the herbalist got the lion's share of archetypes, would adapting some of them to say the naturalist pose much of a difficulty?
If you are looking to adapt Herbalist archetypes into Gourmend or Naturalist archetypes, some archetypes will be easier to adapt than others. All three classes in this book use a somewhat similar magic system, so adapting content intended for one class for use with another one isn't out of the question. You'd have to work at it, though.
IMO, though, herbalism magic classes have enough depth on their own to be mechanically interesting without needing archetypes.
Herbalist Archetypes are broadly usable with the Gourmend (which is almost an archetype of the Herbalist to begin with, but has different BAB and so was kind of split off - although while it can be done, balance can't be guaranteed quite as well as normal. There's actually a sidebar about this). The Naturalist still has three archetypes of its own, though, which is a very respectable amount.
Have fun playing entomologist/geologist/mycologists/whatever without me, sounds like this book has some options that are a real blast. Pun intentional. :)
Have fun playing entomologist/geologist/mycologists/whatever without me, sounds like this book has some options that are a real blast. Pun intentional. :)
Hello, hello! I'll make you a deal. Free copy for a review once you've digested the content. Let me know!
Oh my, I know my next purchase. Too bad I purchased the original herbalist already.
Even so, you'll find huge gobs of that content have been polished and perfected. Normally, I offer a loyalty discount on new versions, but this (and probably the tinker when I finally decide to tackle that monster) are going to be the two exceptions given they were my first and have the most issues.
Have fun playing entomologist/geologist/mycologists/whatever without me, sounds like this book has some options that are a real blast. Pun intentional. :)
Hello, hello! I'll make you a deal. Free copy for a review once you've digested the content. Let me know!
Dibs on the offer if you would allow me. I also purchased the original.
So no discount if we have previously purchased The Herbalist Base Class? It would lessen the impact on my wallet if you would be kind enough to give some sort of discount as price point for the new tome is a bit high (at least high enough for me that it discourages me purchasing the book).
*Rubs chin* Well, if it helps, what you're looking at here is a 162-page product, acting as a full system complete with player aids to make it easier to play at the table. I never got the original - so I can't comment on the differences - but I think the price is pretty good for what you're getting.
*Rubs chin* Well, if it helps, what you're looking at here is a 162-page product, acting as a full system complete with player aids to make it easier to play at the table. I never got the original - so I can't comment on the differences - but I think the price is pretty good for what you're getting.
I would certainly agree with that statement. However, it's a little different when you have already purchased the "parent" product. Having to purchase a product when approximately 1/4 (maybe more/less?) of it is something you've already read through is a little bit discouraging.:p
I object pretty strongly to the dissing of chaos magic. It's based on an irrational fear of randomness and a fallacious social theory rather than a fair-minded reading of the rules (certainly if the 2nd Edition Wild Mage is your benchmark), to say nothing of how they're turned into a dogmatic judgment of others just because you don't understand the appeal.
"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."
- Oscar Wilde
I object pretty strongly to the dissing of chaos magic. It's based on an irrational fear of randomness and a fallacious social theory rather than a fair-minded reading of the rules (certainly if the 2nd Edition Wild Mage is your benchmark), to say nothing of how they're turned into a dogmatic judgment of others just because you don't understand the appeal.
"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."
- Oscar Wilde
Any concept developed poorly deserves dissing, and most chaos mages are, honestly, really, really bad.
I hope to be the exception. Please, open up :)
As for an irrational fear of randomness, no, not at all. Randomness has its place, and I embrace it when it won't pull down a design. Where it does pull down a design, however, is in storytelling games and competitive games. You shouldn't have the ability to accidentally kill a character somebody else has put dozens of hours into, and you shouldn't be able to win a tournament by a coin flip. As these are the sorts of games that I find myself gravitated to design, it is true that I take RNG and tote it around like it's some great evil.
...But the thing is, in the microcosm of my work, it really kinda is.
So no discount if we have previously purchased The Herbalist Base Class? It would lessen the impact on my wallet if you would be kind enough to give some sort of discount as price point for the new tome is a bit high (at least high enough for me that it discourages me purchasing the book).
Cheers
Volf
That's correct, Volf. Even (especially!) the old content has been massaged really, really heavily, to the point that many abilities were totally rewritten to reflect better language. You'll find this in acidbite lichen, all of the poisons, and all of the brewables. In addition to the classic content, I've also added another four spell lists worth of content, and two more classes besides. To date, this is my magnum opus of modularity, and the price does reflect that.
Thanks, lads! Sorry it took so long. I'm a forgetful goof. Also, Paizo technically never got back to me about free copies through this site :P
I won't be purchasing this for a while due to a sudden loss of income. However, if there are free copies to be had for the purpose of reviews please consider me. I would be more than happy to read and write a review for the product.
While the amount of content is staggering, I would have liked it to interact more with existing rules. Can you sunder earthenware jars? can you steal the plants? You can't use them but neither would the herbalist, right? can you counter effects? how does herbalism magic interact with druidic, if at all? I mean, can spells modify rolls? help with the preservation? what about that cleric spell that made anything edible again, would it worl with recipes? You can't make scrolls or wands, is there a way to recreate a one-use item? I recommend a new item creation feat that infuses seeds in such a way that they grow immediatly, do their thing, and wither.
While the amount of content is staggering, I would have liked it to interact more with existing rules. Can you sunder earthenware jars? can you steal the plants? You can't use them but neither would the herbalist, right? can you counter effects? how does herbalism magic interact with druidic, if at all? I mean, can spells modify rolls? help with the preservation? what about that cleric spell that made anything edible again, would it worl with recipes? You can't make scrolls or wands, is there a way to recreate a one-use item? I recommend a new item creation feat that infuses seeds in such a way that they grow immediatly, do their thing, and wither.
Aye, I'm totally guilty of that. The less I interact with the rules, the more futureproof my insanity is. Generally speaking, though, as weight can be an issue, your jars and your potted plants have no mass simply because they'd get to be absolutely ridiculous in any game that keeps tracks. If, for a survival game, it matters, it's an easy thing to rule 0 in. Most people simply don't need it.
If a plant or plant product becomes useless by spoilage, the blessing of nature leaves it. Ergo, any attempt to cheat the system by reversing spoilage by magical means will produce a perfectly-edible thing that no longer has supernatural qualities.
As for item creation, I can come up with something, though I'm a year late on Strange Magic Items because I can't think of 10 pages of composition content, so maybe I should hold my tongue and retract the belief that I can figure it out.
Finally, let's talk about spell interaction. Herbalism plants are supernatural, which makes a damage-based herbalist the single best caster in the party when it comes to dropping things with spell resistance; however, this does mean that all sorts of feats, spells, and equipment that modify spells is locked to the herbalist. Those spells that modify delivery rolls or have less restrictions, like the retroactive bonuses a bard can deliver, will work with herbalism plants, but a price must be paid to be able to ignore an entire layer of defenses.
Taking inspiration on the gnomes favored class bonus for gourmends, What sounds better as a favored class bonus for ratfolk?:
Each 3 levels the gourmend learns 1 cheese varietal and can make it for normal culinary point cost + 1 (available only for gourmend without the cheesemaking specialty)
Extra whey cheese units: 1/4 levels
1/3 of a culinary point, but only to make cheese
Taking inspiration on the gnomes favored class bonus for gourmends, What sounds better as a favored class bonus for ratfolk?:
Each 3 levels the gourmend learns 1 cheese varietal and can make it for normal culinary point cost + 1 (available only for gourmend without the cheesemaking specialty)
Extra whey cheese units: 1/4 levels
1/3 of a culinary point, but only to make cheese
Any thoughts?
It'd be safer to give them a neutered whey cheese that pops daily, but the theme is nice!
wow! yeah that's fair! On the topic of the items, you eant to fill 10 pages of magic items for composition magic alone?
Yes, and I did that for ethermagic and truenaming already. Ethermagic got a new style of staff and a dozen+ pre-made variants, plus some other stuff, and truename magic got, among other things, a pair of gloves with a dozen or so variants that you can combine into one superitem. Scratch that, the gloves were also ethermagic.
...But I did make a truenaming magic item book! If I can get the third done, I was going to do a quick paperback.
idea for either a string of gourmend culinary talents or a archetype: "the Be-yeast" animal companion made out of one of the foodstuffs you can make a familar out of, would probebly forgo 1 of the 2 slots you can pick a culinary skillset for and maybe half the culinary talents?
i can picture the absurdity
normal man:"Krieger is that a giant mantis made out of meat?"
Krieger:"yes"
normal man:"why is it all dark-colored"
Krieger:"its because its made out of leech meat!"
idea for either a string of gourmend culinary talents or a archetype: "the Be-yeast" animal companion made out of one of the foodstuffs you can make a familar out of, would probebly forgo 1 of the 2 slots you can pick a culinary skillset for and maybe half the culinary talents?
i can picture the absurdity
normal man:"Krieger is that a giant mantis made out of meat?"
Krieger:"yes"
normal man:"why is it all dark-colored"
Krieger:"its because its made out of leech meat!"
Yeah, that's a pretty awesome idea. It's a damn shame you weren't around when I was asking up and down for ideas, but, then again, the gourmend wasn't supposed to have archetypes because of its super modular design. I can still see a feat chain that terminates with upgrading the familiar to an animal companion, though it'd be hard to get right because an animal companion isn't strictly better.
idea for either a string of gourmend culinary talents or a archetype: "the Be-yeast" animal companion made out of one of the foodstuffs you can make a familar out of, would probebly forgo 1 of the 2 slots you can pick a culinary skillset for and maybe half the culinary talents?
i can picture the absurdity
normal man:"Krieger is that a giant mantis made out of meat?"
Krieger:"yes"
normal man:"why is it all dark-colored"
Krieger:"its because its made out of leech meat!"
Yeah, that's a pretty awesome idea. It's a damn shame you weren't around when I was asking up and down for ideas, but, then again, the gourmend wasn't supposed to have archetypes because of its super modular design. I can still see a feat chain that terminates with upgrading the familiar to an animal companion, though it'd be hard to get right because an animal companion isn't strictly better.
oh my brain is a "Library of Alexandria" of crazy and/or cool things!
and perhaps maybe heres a few other ways to go about it
1.talent that allows expenditure of doughballs, cheeses, meats, or truffles to add a large amount of mass to the familiar, growing it to a larger size and adding more bulk
2.a grab a animal from the bestiary whos HD = some calculation and your produce-buddy is that (when you level you can pick a new one)
3.make it be a drake companion (so i can be a intelligent lama and i can have my meat dragon!)
4.it kinda be like the Tinker's alpha, a base setup and can add to it a small selection of new goodies, could have a summoner-type dealy where you select the kind of body type and just go from there