Evaluate my build - Brawler / Monk Grapple Master


Advice

Grand Lodge

I've been wanting to make use of the Wilding feat from Ultimate Wilderness to make an anime style Catgirl ever since I saw it...so there is one wasted feat in this build that is purely for fluff to allow the character to have cat ears and a tail...

Similarly, ever since I found the Constructed Pugilist, I've been wanting to make a character with a prosthetic arm that can fire a grappling hook...

These 2 sounded like an interesting pairing, so here we are.

That said, let me know what you think of this build.

(This build is 100% PFS legal, 20pt buy, all materials approved on the PFS Additional Resources page)

Ultimate Catgirl Beast Wrestler:

Class: Brawler 2 (Constructed Pugilist/Strangler) / Monk 10 (Tetori)
Race: Human (Shoanti)
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Faction: Grand Lodge

Str: 10
Dex: 18
Con: 15
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

Alternate Racial Traits: Giant Ancestry

Traits: Giant Ambivalence, Ogre Harried

Favored Class Bonus: Monk - HP

Items:

+1 Ghost Touch, Adamantine Constructed Limb 11060gp
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 8000gp
Ring of Protection +2 8000gp
Cloak of Resistance +3 9000gp
Boots of the Earth 5000gp
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4 16000gp
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +4 16000gp
Armbands of the Brawler 500gp
Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver (Grapple) 4000gp
Monk's Robes 13000gp

Total GP = 90,560gp

1. Brawler 1 - Constructed Limb Modification: Grapnel Arm
Feat: Wilding
Bonus Feat: Agile Maneuvers

2. Monk 1 - Bonus Feat: Improved Grapple

3. Brawler 2 - Feat: Dirty Fighting
Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse

4. Monk 2 - +1 Dex
Bonus Feat: Stunning Pin

5. Monk 3 - Feat: Deadly Grappler

6. Monk 4

7. Monk 5 - Feat: Weapon Focus: Grapple

8. Monk 6 - +1 Dex
Bonus Feat: Greater Grapple

9. Monk 7 - Feat: Rapid Grappler

10. Monk 8

11. Monk 9 - Feat: Toughness

12. Monk 10 +1 Con
Bonus Feat: Pinning Knockout

Build Notes:

Gets a +1 CMB/CMD -vs- larger opponents
attacks count as magical, cold iron, silver, adamantine, and Lawful
+28 to grapple, +38 to break a grapple, +43 to maintain a grapple
+30' of fast movement
2d6+1 unarmed damage on punches
3d6+1 damage on grapples with an extra 2d6 precision damage on grapples.
Can grapple someone at 40' with a successful ranged touch attack at +17 to hit
Does not lose dex while grappled, can still make AoOs while grappled
Can spend Ki to suppress Freedom of Movement
28 AC, 26 Touch, 21 Flat (+4 more if someone can boop her with a wand of Mage Armor)

Grand Lodge

Why Wilding? It seems like a bit of a weird feat for your build and nothing seems to base around that feat. Personally I'd just swap it out for Power Attack or something.


Not exactly a catgirl - 'Humans with ogre or troll ancestry end up having hulking builds and asymmetrical features.'

Ogre harried - is that ogre avoidance or giant harried?

Grand Lodge

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Syries wrote:
Why Wilding? It seems like a bit of a weird feat for your build and nothing seems to base around that feat. Personally I'd just swap it out for Power Attack or something.

Did you read anything I typed before the build? Wilding is there for flavor. Plus, what is Power Attack going to do for a Dex based build that focuses on Grapple?

avr wrote:

Not exactly a catgirl - 'Humans with ogre or troll ancestry end up having hulking builds and asymmetrical features.'

Ogre harried - is that ogre avoidance or giant harried?

Ogre Avoidance, mistyped that one.

Yea, guess the giant ancetry thing doesn't really fit...I'll change that to something else


Personally, that's not the way I would use Grappling to inflict Damage. I would use Grab and/or Hamatula Strike, and I would use a natural attack build, say a Tengu with Claws, a level in White Haired Witch for a Hair Attack, and a Helm of the Mammoth Lord for a Gore Attack. That's 5 Attacks/round.

The White Hair gets a Free Grapple with every hit. You wear Armor Spikes, which inflict 1d6 Damage with every successful Grapple Attack.

You take the Hamatula Strike Feat, which gives you a free grapple with every hit from a Piercing Weapon, like your Bite and Gore attacks, too.

Take like versatile weapon so your Claws do Piercing Damage, and they get the Hamatula Strike goodness, too.

You take most of your levels in Warpriest, so you apply Sacred Weapon Damage to your Natural Attacks and your Armor Spikes, so now you have a character that gets like 10 attacks/round, and does some respectable base damage.

A different spin on this would be to combine Natural Attacks with Sneak Attack Damage instead plus some way of locking in your Sneak Attack Damage such as dipping 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype then carrying around an Eversmoking Bottle.

Another way to maximize Sneak Attack Damage would be with Sap Adept Feats and Knockout Artist. Those will more than double your Sneak Attack Damge, but only for Bludgeoning, Nonlethal Damage. Between the 3 Feats, you will Double your Sneak Attack Damage Dice and do +2 Damage/Die. There are 2 problems with this: 1 is that you can only use this to inflict nonlethal Damage, but since you are taking Pinning Knockout, you were doing nonlethal Damage anyway. The other problem is that this works only on Flatfooted opponents: simply denying them their Dex Mods isn't enough. You can make your opponents Flat Footed with a combination of Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses.

The problem with my first suggestion is that it is for a build that uses Grappling to inflict lots of Damage, but it really doesn't look like Grappling when in Combat. Perhaps my last idea would be helpful if you really want to be some kind of strangler.

When you have your opponents Pinned, they are denied their Dex Mods to AC, and that means you can do Sneak Attack Damage. If you are making 3 Grapple Checks/round with Rapid Grappler, you would work in levels in things that do Sneak Attack Damage like a Snakebite Striker Brawler and Ninja. Take Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Dip a level in Cavalier and/or 3 levels in Paladin with the Holy Tactician Archetype for the Tactician Class Ability, and take Coordinated Maneuvers (+2 CMB) and/or Precise Strike for and extra 1d6 SAD. Since you are using Pinning Knockout, you are already doing Nonlethal Damage, and your Sneak Attack Damage will be nonlethal, too. That means your Sneak Attack Damage will also be doubled.

This should actually stack with Sap Master + Knockout Artist + Shatter Defenses and Cornugon Smash. Pinning Knockout doubles the nonlethal Damage. Sap Master doubles the Damage Dice! I think this will lead to some obscene damage. A high Feat tax, but probably worth it.

Grand Lodge

Scott, those are all great suggestions, for completely different builds. I have even used a few of those on characters I already have.

The million natural attacks per round builds are fun on paper, but really bog down a game when every time your turn in combat comes around you spend 5 minutes rolling dice while the other players fall asleep.

I've done the sap master rogue route already, I do love playing rogues...totally not what I am looking for in this character though.

I was going more for a love child of Steve Irwin and the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling, in an anime style catgirl body.

The Tetori archetype gets some 100% unique abilities, like the ability to shut down teleportation and shapeshifting on the target of their grapples. I am not aware of any other grappling focused archetypes that can shut someone down and keep them that way quite the way a Tetori can.

As for damage, I think I'll be doing ok with 15d6 damage per round to things once I get my hands on them with rapid grappler. 3d6 crushing damage + 2d6 sneak attack per grapple check 3x a round.


Slyme wrote:

Scott, those are all great suggestions, for completely different builds. I have even used a few of those on characters I already have.

The million natural attacks per round builds are fun on paper, but really bog down a game when every time your turn in combat comes around you spend 5 minutes rolling dice while the other players fall asleep.

I've done the sap master rogue route already, I do love playing rogues...totally not what I am looking for in this character though.

I was going more for a love child of Steve Irwin and the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling, in an anime style catgirl body.

The Tetori archetype gets some 100% unique abilities, like the ability to shut down teleportation and shapeshifting on the target of their grapples. I am not aware of any other grappling focused archetypes that can shut someone down and keep them that way quite the way a Tetori can.

As for damage, I think I'll be doing ok with 15d6 damage per round to things once I get my hands on them with rapid grappler. 3d6 crushing damage + 2d6 sneak attack per grapple check 3x a round.

So, you don't want to do the catch-and-release Grapple for damage, that's cool. It is fair to say that multiple attacks might bog down the table.

As for the other suggestions, one of them you are already following: applying Sneak Attack Damage to your Grapple Damage via Pin and Pinning Knockout. I was emphasizing Sneak Attack Damage more than you, maybe.

For Curnugon Smash and Shatter Defenses + Sap Master and Knockout Artist, that's something to consider. You'll be keeping the Damage though Pinning flavor. And the Damage will Stack with the Pinning Knockout Damage, going from double to triple at least, but I suspect will actually result in quadruple damage for reasons I listed. It's expensive, though. We're talking 6 Feats, so it's very understandable if you don't want to take it.

But it's not inappropriate for your build.

Grand Lodge

The sneak attack damage on this particular build is a class feature from the Strangler Brawler called Strangle. Unfortunately the ability does not qualify me for the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, or I might have taken that to boost my damage by another 1d6.

Cornugon Smash and the related feats to make it work would require a complete rework from the ground up for this character, probably switching to Str instead of Dex...and necessitating moving away from Tetori, since it would completely tank the AC on the character. I already have a Bloodrager who pulls some devastating shenanigans via cornugon smash, and I don't like recycling the same gimmick on multiple characters.

I do appreciate the ideas though :)

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