I like this one. I might want to give those teamwork feats a second look.
Wow, thats terrifying, and I've used a master summoner as a BBEG before, but that is just awesomely cringe worthy.
My Pcs are going up against that soon. I wanted to make a team that grew in power exponentially when another member was added to the combat.
The only thing I hate about it is you have to be an orc to do it. I don't like it that so many of the best Barbarian feats are only for orcs and half-orcs.
Maybe I'm missing something but all this is doing is giving them a +1 to hit, damage & Fort Saves and an extra hit point when they rage.
Doesn't seem that OP to me.
+2 hit/dmg Fort and hp/HD
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Derp, fat fingered that 1 instead of a 2 and the OP was referring to level 1 orcs so not that big a deal.
At best 2-hding great axes they'll hit for 3 more damage a round but will still drop from a single solid hit from any martial class.
A level 1 orc barbarian with this feat (and it active) would have a total strength of 27 and a constitution of 22. Without power attack (which they could not *also* have), they still would deal ~2d4 + 12 damage with a falchion. The *minimum* damage would instantly take out nearly all level 1 characters, and that's at a +9 to attack (which is about a 75% hit chance against your average level 1). The average damage would take out your average raging barbarian (who would have 16 HP).
This means that *each swing* has about a 70-75% chance to take out a level 1 character, and the orc itself would have 18HP. This means they'd survive the average damage from their own technique (much less that of normal 1st level characters), though they'd be easily hit at an AC of around 13. Too bad 19 damage doesn't take them down. Due to orc ferocity, you have to take them to -22 to stop them. That means they effectively have about 40HP.
A pair of these would likely be a TPK for most parties, despite the encounter being (theoretically) a mere CR2.
EDIT: Actually, my money would still be on the orcs until the party hit at least 3rd level.
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At best 2-hding great axes they'll hit for 3 more damage a round but will still drop from a single solid hit from any martial class.Elite stats, so let's assume 16 Str and 14 Con.
Vanilla orc Barb 1: +4 for d12+4 damage, 9 hp
Raging orc Barb 1: +7 for d12+7 damage, 11 hp
with this feat: +9 for d12+10 damage, 13 hpI gotta say: if these guys get initiative, rage, and charge, then they're probably going to hit. And more than one hits, or one crits, then any nonmartial character below 5th level or so is going down hard.
Doug M.
How about we just pull the entry straight from the bestiary instead, if you cherry pick every aspect then, yeah you get what you pay for.
(since he has class levels instead of NPC class levels and there are at least 2 of them he's a CR 1.5 to CR 2)
Vanilla Orc Barb 1: +3 D12+4, 6 HP's
Raging Orc Barb 1: +5 D12+7 damage, 8 HP's
With this feat: +7 D12+10 Damage, 10 HP's
Yes, it CAN drop any PC into the negatives with an average roll same as any martial PC can drop him with an average roll.
That's why his challenge rating is flagged at CHALLENGING for for a 1st level party and should really be thrown at a 2nd level party instead.
Doing 4 of them as you have written is beyond an epic challenge and is considered a CR 5 challenge for a 1st level party (IE suicide/killer DM territory).
I still fail to see the problem with this feat.
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At best 2-hding great axes they'll hit for 3 more damage a round but will still drop from a single solid hit from any martial class.Elite stats, so let's assume 16 Str and 14 Con.
Vanilla orc Barb 1: +4 for d12+4 damage, 9 hp
Raging orc Barb 1: +7 for d12+7 damage, 11 hp
with this feat: +9 for d12+10 damage, 13 hpI gotta say: if these guys get initiative, rage, and charge, then they're probably going to hit. And more than one hits, or one crits, then any nonmartial character below 5th level or so is going down hard.
Doug M.
How about we just pull the entry straight from the bestiary instead, if you cherry pick every aspect then, yeah you get what you pay for.
(since he has class levels instead of NPC class levels and there are at least 2 of them he's a CR 1.5 to CR 2)
Vanilla Orc Barb 1: +3 D12+4, 6 HP's
Raging Orc Barb 1: +5 D12+7 damage, 8 HP's
With this feat: +7 D12+10 Damage, 10 HP's
Yes, it CAN drop any PC into the negatives with an average roll same as any martial PC can drop him with an average roll.
That's why his challenge rating is flagged at CHALLENGING for for a 1st level party and should really be thrown at a 2nd level party instead.
Doing 4 of them as you have written is beyond an epic challenge and is considered a CR 5 challenge for a 1st level party (IE suicide/killer DM territory).I still fail to see the problem with this feat.
Exactly how do you mean "cherry pick examples"? It is a feat explicitly designed to be usable by exactly two races: Half-orc and orc. It's in the pre-requisite.
All you have to do is up the orc to the elite stat array and a PC level (which are supposed to be linked) and you have a character that can't be knocked out until you deal almost about 38 damage, with average damage of +16 with +7 to-hit (without the feat). Upping an NPC class level into a PC class level is an extremely standard way of upping the difficulty of an encounter.
Most of the problem is in the Orc itself (between the +4 str mod and their Ferocity trait), though the feat is potentially problematic as well. Really, the Orc should get a +1 to CR if level 3 or less because of their ferocity trait.
(For the argument about initiative needs and such, keep in mind that the orcs only get one attack, so they can simply move then prepare an action to attack when their partner gets adjacent/flanking. Not that they're necessarily smart enough to do that.)
I love it when bad guys win. Just more intensive for that all orc campaign I've been pitching.
I wasn't saying it was broken, I just love adding some strategy to my bad guys and this is better than outflank.
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I wasn't saying it was broken, I just love adding some strategy to my bad guys and this is better than outflank.
Hey, don't be dissin' the outflank. You only need one "will it blend" event to make it totally worth it :P
(When I say "will it blend", I mean an event where one character crits, the outflank AoO crits, and the outflank AoO from *that* crits. Not as unlikely as you might think, given good BAB characters and 15-20 crit weapons. If you hit on a 2 on your first attack, which is easy with outflank as a full BAB guy, it's about a 2.2% chance on your first swing, lower on the lower BAB swings.)
(When I say "will it blend", I mean an event where one character crits, the outflank AoO crits, and the outflank AoO from *that* crits. Not as unlikely as you might think, given good BAB characters and 15-20 crit weapons. If you hit on a 2 on your first attack, which is easy with outflank as a full BAB guy, it's about a 2.2% chance on your first swing, lower on the lower BAB swings.)
If you are hitting on a 2, then an AoO is probably overkill.
Half Orc Barbarian / Cavalier
Order of the sword cavalier
Take the rage power "Ferocious Mount"
Now I convey the "Amplified rage" to my mount using the "tactician" ability. My mount can rage using the "ferocious mount" ability.
At level 8 cavalier/ 2 barbarian, when I charge my mount has 26 strength with amplified rage and I add his new and improved strength onto my charge attack damage because of the order of the sword's 8th level ability.
He's the highest single-attack damage character I ever came up with...Enjoy
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(When I say "will it blend", I mean an event where one character crits, the outflank AoO crits, and the outflank AoO from *that* crits. Not as unlikely as you might think, given good BAB characters and 15-20 crit weapons. If you hit on a 2 on your first attack, which is easy with outflank as a full BAB guy, it's about a 2.2% chance on your first swing, lower on the lower BAB swings.)If you are hitting on a 2, then an AoO is probably overkill.
At high levels the full BAB characters are just *expected* to hit on a 2 with their first attack.
To wit, level 20 fighter versus Tarrasque:
Tarrasque AC: 40
Fighter to-hit (power attack + outflank, +5 weapon): +39 (20 BAB + 10 Str + 5 Weapon + 4 Weapon Training + 2 Weapon Focus/Greater + 4 Outflank - 6 power attack)
Result: Fighter hits on a 2 for his first attack, on a 6 for their second, on a 11 for their third and on a 16 for their last. Since AoOs are always at full BAB, they would also hit on a 2.
And this doesn't even bring in other potential buffs, like having the right Bane, having Haste or Aid or other similar to-hit boosts going, having favored enemy from an allied ranger who chose to bond with companions, a bard's music, etc.
Even with just "Haste + Bardic Music", the to-hit for the fighter goes up by 5 (to +44), meaning they hit on a 2 for their first 3 attacks (2 at full BAB, 1 at -5).
All of the above makes Outflank more and more deadly as you get higher in level, because those AoOs are becoming more and more likely to hit, and you get more chances to start that chain (who cares if you started the outflank AoO chain with the -15 attack, the AoOs will continue at full anyway). The only thing that curbs this is immunity to flanking and it being harder to get into flanking without funny tricks.
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The Amplified Rage teamwork feat:
Prerequisites: Half-orc or orc, rage class feature.
Benefit: Whenever you are raging and adjacent to a raging ally who also has this feat or flanking the same opponent as a raging ally with this feat, your morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by +4. This feat does not stack with itself (you only gain this bonus from one qualifying ally, regardless of how many are adjacent to you).
Good grief. Has anyone actually used this?
If you have a group of, say, four orc barbarians of level N, then they'd collectively be CR N+3. But if you give them all this feat... well, they'd be CR N+4, right? At least. Four 1st level orc barbarians, if they win initiative, could be a serious threat to a party of third or fourth level characters.
(Let's not even think about how this could interact with Leadership. Yikes.)
Again, has anyone used this?
Doug M.
2 PCs in our Serpent's Skull campaign are actually built around this feat : twin half-orc "diplomats" (= Barb/Fighter) with Amplified Rage, Power Attack and Cleave (we just made it to level 4).
Narok and Natok do ungodly amounts of damage in melee with their Earthbreakers. And though they have to wait for each other before attacking, the benefit far outweighs the disadvantage for the moment.
In later levels, they will use the feat Warleader's Rage (also from Orcs of Golarion) to get around the positioning constraints of Amplified Rage.
Concerning the lowest Initiative constraint, our DM has authorized a 3PP teamwork feat allowing those who have it to act at the highest initiative among them. Since we have an Inquisitor/Rogue with an insane bonus to Init, this will not be a problem for much longer.
Also they plan to build a small tribe of Orcs thanks to the Leadership feat !!!
BTW, we also have a Bard (Savage Skald) in the group, as well as an Arcane Sorcerer focusing on debuff and a Cleric specialised in protection against debuffs, poisons, conditions ... Sadly, the half-orc Paladin's player is not often available to play, but I believe that we have the basis for a rather strong party.
An additional benefit of having twin PCs is that when one of the 2 players involved cannot attend, the other can very easily take his place and manage both twins along the lines of "Narok smash, Natok smash".
This feat is SOO MUCH FUN!! We play a 4 person party through serpent's skull. My group cheesed it tho by splashing 1 barbarian and then taking extra rage, and berserker of society. Half Orcs are so powerful. Toothy is one of the best racial traits in the game and darkvision and endurance we're very helpful for this campaign setting.
We are
main tank Barb 1/ warlord 3/ bard 1/ fighter 2
off tank barb 1/ rogue 3/ fighter 3
caster wilder 7 with the rage surge bond. I also took power channel as bonus feat. Plays like a psionic magus. Vigor is insane with amplified rage combo.
and halfling artificer for utility items and healing
falchion is overpowered. and so is this feat. Note one of the hilarious things about this feat is when you are no longer adjacent and lose a bucket of hp. You've really gotta be a team player in those situations!
The falchion does about the same amount of damage as a greatsword.
Derp, fat fingered that 1 instead of a 2 and the OP was referring to level 1 orcs so not that big a deal.
At best 2-hding great axes they'll hit for 3 more damage a round but will still drop from a single solid hit from any martial class.A level 1 orc barbarian with this feat (and it active) would have a total strength of 27 and a constitution of 22. Without power attack (which they could not *also* have), they still would deal ~2d4 + 12 damage with a falchion. The *minimum* damage would instantly take out nearly all level 1 characters, and that's at a +9 to attack (which is about a 75% hit chance against your average level 1). The average damage would take out your average raging barbarian (who would have 16 HP).
This means that *each swing* has about a 70-75% chance to take out a level 1 character, and the orc itself would have 18HP. This means they'd survive the average damage from their own technique (much less that of normal 1st level characters), though they'd be easily hit at an AC of around 13. Too bad 19 damage doesn't take them down. Due to orc ferocity, you have to take them to -22 to stop them. That means they effectively have about 40HP.
A pair of these would likely be a TPK for most parties, despite the encounter being (theoretically) a mere CR2.
EDIT: Actually, my money would still be on the orcs until the party hit at least 3rd level.
Actually, a lvl 1 npc with a heroic class would be cr 1/2 so the two orc barbarians above together would only be cr 1. RE DIC U LOUS.
Of Course non essential npcs only get average hp so they should also likely have only 10 hp in rage, still better than standard cr 1/3 orcs at 6 hp, and putting out more damage yes.As far as using the teamwork feat wait til at least level 3 sounds good, power attack first or it won't be as terrifying!