Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Purity

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Purity
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Greatest Good!

You don’t have to be a holy warrior to be a true hero. Join in the fight against evil and be a paragon of righteousness as a character of any class with Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Purity. Arm yourself with a host of new options specifically designed for good-aligned characters—like new fighting techniques striking the balance between capture and execution, life-fostering magic, rules for the redemption of evil characters, and morally challenging alignment-changing alchemy. With new insights into what it means to play good-aligned hardliners and how to get paid for being a good guy, deal with evil companions, redeem villains, and handle all those goblin babies, this book will change the way you think about playing honorable characters. Also, learn more about some of the greatest do-gooders and virtuous organizations on Golarion—with a focus on nonreligious groups, since the fight between good and evil doesn’t have to unfold entirely in the arena of faith. Join the ranks of the just with Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Purity! Inside this book, you’ll find:

  • Detailed discussion on what it means to play a character of each of the three good alignments, including ideas for character generation and specific challenges of these alignments.
  • A look into good-aligned races, good-aligned homelands, and good-aligned organizations for your character, as well as some of the challenges of being good and what happens when good characters come from bad places.
  • A method for redeeming evil characters who your adventuring party encounters during the campaign.
  • New good-based feats, magical weapons and gear, rage powers, rogue talents, subdomains, and more!

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-511-2

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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Shallow Treatment, with a Handful of Good Options

3/5

Champions of Purity is a sort of sequel to the earlier [/i]Faiths of Purity[/i]. Whereas the previous book was primarily about the gods and their devotees (clerics and paladins), Champions of Purity has a broader theme: characters of good alignment generally. Since PCs of any class can be on the side of good, a book designed for those characters makes sense. But although there are certainly some useful class options here and there, the book as a whole adopts the scattergun approach of throwing a lot of stuff out there and seeing what sticks. Written mostly by a crop of freelancers, the book is a loose collection of shallow two-page entries on vaguely-related topics. It doesn't really have much in the way of depth, but that seems to be the norm for many of the books in the Player Companion line.

Still, to give credit where it's due, we have to admire the great cover of Seelah cutting through a horde of monsters. The inside front cover is a table of good-aligned deities in Golarion that includes the usual suspects from the Core Rulebook along with some that are lesser-known, including several from the Asian-themed Dragon Empires. The inside back cover does an odd thing and introduces a new feat, "Summon Good Monster," that allows good-aligned spellcasters to substitute a good-aligned creature from the accompanying table in place of what the spell would normally allow, and to give them Diehard to boot. Not too shabby!

The book proper starts with a two-page introduction, "Why Be Good?", that talks about some more specific motivations for PCs, like freedom, honor, justice, mercy, order, and more. It then goes on to give some suggestions as to where characters with those goals might hail from geographically.

Next, each of the three good alignments (Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Chaotic Good) are discussed in a separate two-page entry which is divided into Philosophies (Lawful Good PCs might be seen as Crusaders or Guardians, for example, while Neutral Good PCs might be seen as Mediators or Redeemers), Advantages & Challenges (in terms of role-playing), Opportunities & Allies (ways those PCs might fit into Golarion specifically), and finally Traits (three new ones each). One of the criticisms I have of the book is that its treatment of alignment issues only barely skims the surface: there's no mention, for example, of how hard it is to play a truly good character when the lowest common denominator is lazy players with a "kill things and take their stuff" mentality. Characters of good alignment face hard decisions and restrictions that other alignments don't, and this can create problems for groups. These are some of the issues that would be worth discussing.

The remaining two-page sections consist of the following:

"Paragons of Virtue" has a line or two on good-aligned races (Aasimars, Catfolk, Elves, and Samsarans), good-aligned organisations (like knightly orders), and good-aligned homelands (like Andoran), but it's a very cursory treatment and of very little use to those familiar with Golarion. Four new traits are included.

"Good Characters in Bad Situations" raises the classic "what do you do with goblin babies" quandary and then suggests (in a sentence or two each) some "bad places" that good characters could come from. Again, the book has identified an interesting issue but has a shallow and wishy-washy treatment of it. Don't look for any deep insights into alignment and RPGs here. (I do love the artwork of the samurai with the goblin babies!)

"Heavenly Virtues" presents one new feat called "Virtuous Creed" that has different effects depending on which specific virtue the PC identifies with (such as humility, courage, freedom, etc.). In a way, it's like six feats in one, which is interesting, but the different virtues have very different power levels in a mechanical sense.

"Redemption" presents a rules sub-system for tracking an evil creature's progress towards becoming good, along with a variety of penances they can do to help atone. I'm skeptical of these little sub-systems that I know will never be referenced again or expanded upon. This one looks a bit rough, but I guess it does add some content and perhaps guidance to a GM dealing with the issue. I wouldn't follow it too strictly, however.

"Divine Influence" introduces seven new clerical subdomains: Cooperation, Dragon, Imagination, Judgment, Redemption, Revelation, and Revelry. Each subdomain replaces the domain spells and granted power of a specific Core Rulebook domain. It looks like there are some good options.

"Fighting the Good Fight" is a miscellany: a new barbarian rage power (Celestial Totem), two new inquisitor inquisitions (Final Rest and Recovery), six new feats (including one very useful one to keep you from accidentally killing enemies outright and a silly one that adds a single point of damage when you hit with a good-aligned weapon), and a sidebar on subduing and binding opponents (no new rules, but it's useful to have the material all in one place).

"Grace and Guile" has a handful of new alchemist discoveries, a couple of bardic masterpieces, and three new rogue talents. The book really is trying to have something for everyone! The alchemist discoveries seem reasonable, one of the bardic masterpieces seems crazily overpowered (blinding and deafening, or even stunning, all evil creatures that hear the performance and fail a save), and I really like the rogue talent Sacrifice Self that allows a rogue to ignore the effects of their evasion ability to help shield an ally from harm.

"Sublime Spellcraft" has a couple of new summoner evolutions (I wouldn't touch summoners with a ten-foot-pole, so I have no opinion of these), three new witch patrons (which are apparently just bland lists of replacement spells), a few new hexes, and two new wizard arcane discoveries. I mostly liked what I saw here.

"Spells of the Just" includes ten new spells, most of which are for both divine and arcane spellcasters. I really liked the little story in the sidebar about how these spells came to be known, and I wish there were more attempts like this to explain the appearance of new spells and magic items.

"Tools for Good" introduces several new magic items. Although damned expensive, I really liked the Devil's Key (allowing you to follow an outsider to its home plane to kill it for good) and the Equalizer Shield (creating an antimagic field to stymie those pesky spellcasters!).

I think books like this have little enduring value because there's hardly any interesting setting lore or discussion, and readers will just cherry-pick a new spell or class option from an online database. Buy this one if you need to for PFS, but otherwise you can safely give it a pass.


Some interesting parts, but mostly uninspiring

3/5

I liked the first half, which explored the different ways to support the cause of Good, but I thought it lacked depth and I would have welcomed more discussion and examples of gameplay or stories in the campaign world for context. e.g. the illustration of Valeros in the Neutral Good section helped me understand what the writers were trying to convey. I found the second half less interesting, but those who enjoy technical details may find it useful.

My main gripe is that I expected a focus on Champions and the stuff that champions do, but I felt like I was reading the guide for Men-at-Arms or Sergeants for Purity.


Useful for many classes, but not necessarily all good characters

4/5

Champions of Purity will be useful for some good characters, and I think this depends less on the character’s class and more on the character concept. If you are creating a character that is built around his or her goodness – call it good with a capital “G” – I think there’s a fair amount of useful material here, no matter what class your character is. If not, you will probably pass over most of the character options for ones in other sources that provide more mechanical benefit or highlight other aspects of the character’s personality, talents, and backstory. There’s also a fair amount of space devoted to collecting information found in other sourcebooks (e.g., good-aligned deities, races, organizations, homelands, nonlethal weapons, spells with the good descriptor).

I am giving it 4 stars because if you are picking this up specifically to help you build characters which are "actively" rather than "passively" good, I think it works well.

See my full review at my blog Delver's Diary here.


Worth every penny

4/5

Champions of Purity is a good quality product with large collection of rules options for most classes along with a range of role playing advice for anyone interested in a playing a Good character.

Champions of Purity starts with an examination of good, trying to answer the general question of “Why to be good?” and then focusing in each of the three alignments individually. It provides generalized motivations for any sort of good character along with locations where characters with each motivation might originate. This provides a nice connection to Golarion in a book that is relatively light on setting details. The different alignment focuses provide examples of different types of philosophies that characters of a given alignment may fall into, along with some of the pros and cons of playing each good alignment. Golarion specific information about opportunities and allies that each alignment may be involved with round out the sections. The only concerns I have with these sections are the listing of the different philosophies, and with the included traits. I worry that players reading these, especially if they’re new players, may see the philosophy suggestions as more rigid limitations rather than just possible ways for characters of each alignment to be portrayed. The traits in each section are listed as complementing a given alignment, but having them listed in a section devoted to that alignment gives the impression that they’re only for that alignment.

The next section is entitled Paragons of Virtue and covers a range of setting information to make a completely Good character, what race to play, organizations to be a part of, and where to be from. Generally this is presented well though I was surprised that none of the good churches were mentioned under the good aligned organizations. The inclusion of countries in Tian Xia as potential character origins was nice, as Tian Xia is often underrepresented in most products. There’s also a list of potential Prestige Classes for good characters, which I appreciated because it’s often hard for players to know about what classes are out there, as they show up in a variety of products. One minor complaint I did have here was that in one of this sections traits they mention an empyreal lord; it seems like there should have been an explanation somewhere of what an empyreal lord is, as players may not know this.

This is followed by Good Characters in Bad Situations, which examines moral quandaries that good players may find themselves in, and shows how different good characters may react to the same situation in different ways. This is quite well done as it covers situations that may come up during gameplay, though a greater list of actual evil acts would have been nice. The list of how good characters fit within “evil” nations is nice, but all the different lists of where good characters come from makes me think that perhaps they all should have been together. It also seems like it could have been a good place to cover how good characters deal with worshiping neutral (or even evil) deities.

The center spread in Champions of Purity is devoted to Heavenly Virtues, creeds for players to live by that provide benefits when the associated feat is taken. All of the benefits seem to be reasonably balanced, but the creeds will require some DM work to keep track of, as breaking a creed means the character loses the benefit of the feat. Some creeds may not be appropriate in all campaigns as the situations they reference may not be present, making them impossible to violate. The art on these two pages is great, with a stained glass style that really works with the virtue theme. On the topic of virtues, I’m starting to feel like Virtue is becoming a bit of an overloaded term, now it may be because I’m running Rise of the Runelords where they come up a bit, but perhaps a different term should have been used.

Redemption is covered next, with a rules framework for an evil character to be turned from the dark side. It seems like a good system to me, though it will require a large amount of DM tracking; a lot of that could probably be avoided by combining it with in game story events. It does include rules for one or more characters helping a character seeking redemption, but I feel that some examination of how a PC could help an NPC seek redemption in a more role playing sense would have been good (and potentially more frequently useful).

The remaining sections of the book are a collection of character options, firstly separated up into Divine, Combat, Skilled, and Arcane characters, and then followed by new spells and items. The divine portion provides details of all the good deities which complements the inside front cover where all the deity’s Domains, Favored Weapons and the like are listed. A number of new subdomains are presented, with Cooperation and Redemption having the most interesting powers. For combat focused characters there are new rage powers and inquisitions, as well as a handful of new feats. There’s also a sidebar on taking enemies alive, going over the rules and options relating to subdual attacks and binding opponents. Some coverage of how to bind someone during a grapple and maybe a feat to go along with it would have been good fit here. For skill based characters there are new alchemical discoveries, masterpieces, and rogue talents, to go with a sidebar on character types for less straight forward good characters. The most interesting new options here are a couple of discoveries that can forcibly change the alignment of the imbiber. Included in the descriptions are the moralistic questions that arise from forcing an alignment change on someone. In the Sublime Spellcasting section arcane casters are the focus, with summoners getting new evolutions, witches getting new patrons and hexes, and wizards getting new arcane discoveries. The mechanics of the Celestial Appearance evolution are interesting, where it’s one 3-point evolution with an increasing point cost if you want to do more with it, so it can be up to a 7-point evolution if you so desire. Based on its name and effect I can see a devil/demon/etc. version showing up somewhere along the line.

In Spells of the Just there are 10 new spells, all with the good type, and a sidebar detailing a scroll that contains them all. I particularly like the Angelic Aspect chain of spells, and Burst of Radiance. For magic items there are a couple of new weapon special abilities and then 9 new magic items (which are said to be wondrous items, when only 2 of them are wondrous items). Surprisingly most of the items are new magic weapons or armor, with only 2 being not combat related. The neatest one is probably the Mantle of the Protector, a way to share some of a character’s armor bonuses. My only concern with all this new rule content is that a lot of it makes players very good at killing Evil things, which may make it on the high end of the power scale in campaigns with few neutral opponents. For instance I can see this material having a big draw in the upcoming Wrath of the Righteous AP.

The art in Champions of Purity is top notch, with good portraits of most of the iconics and a few others; I especially like the ones of Feiya and Kyra. The cover is also very good; however the two other larger pieces in the product are not really to my liking. On the topic of graphic design the font used on the cover and as the section headers is truly awful, I understand that its look probably matches the content of the book is some fashion but this is a situation where function is more important than form.

Champions of Purity is a great product which adds to the quality of the Player Companion line. There’s lots of interesting material here both for those looking for roleplaying ideas and suggestions and those looking for new mechanical tools to play with. A similar book for the neutral alignments would be good, as I find it harder to player neutral characters than good, though it may be hard to find as much neutral specific rules material as there’s fewer obvious things to build off of and because the core rules are written in a rather neutrally aligned way already.


4/5

I agree with almost everything that the previous poster mentioned (except the 3E material). There are areas I wish they had gone more in depth or expanded upon a topic, but over all, a very good book. Unlike many of the other player's guide books, this one does seem to offer options for basically everyone, rather than focus on a handfull of classes. The amount of mechanics in this book is great, and shows that it doesn't detract from the fluff material. Not too much of it is terribly etting specific, either.

The art is pretty good, particularly the cover and the center fold, while most of the other art is generally just various iconics is some sort of pose, but not really relvant to the topics.

The magic items are ok, not great. Nothing really jumps out, with a lot of it at the higher GP end.

The spells mostly look nice. I'm not really sure, (yes I know that Alchemists are their new baby and all) that the Alchemist's materail either needed to be in this book or was really thought out that well. Even at 12th+ level, a single save that can rob some clases of all class features (and can argueably require an Atonement even if it's a temp thing) probably needs to be errata'd a lot or out.

I'm very happy that Roles where not included in this book. Don't care for them. The Virtues look good, though I wish there there where more, or perhaps some of them would be switched out. I'm sad to see that they require a Feat to utilize, as I'm not sure most of them really are worth a Feat, and what's worse the main classes that the flavor really fits are generally the ones that are totally Feat-starved. About the same power level as the Knightly Traits in Knights of the Inner Sea, except in general even more situational, that I'm not really sure they are really worth a Trait. Other than that, they are great and look interesting.

All in all, a great and fun book. I would love to see more books like this, both in the amount of material presented as well as focusing on Good, heroic characters and play. I'd definetly buy a Champions of Purity 2 and 3, or a similar book that is not setting specific, but along the same lines.


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Ajaxis wrote:
Kajehase wrote:
Andru Watkins wrote:
Is that Iomedae on the cover?
It's Iomedae, for some reason disguising herself as a fourteen-year old.
Clean living.

And brussels sprouts, no doubt.


Wonder what they call Brussels sprouts on Golarion?


I'm so stoked to be reading all these comments! FYI, I got lucky enough to work on a teensy tiny part of this book, and I am SOOO listening to what you guys are saying. So uh. Keep it up. Please?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Kajehase wrote:
Wonder what they call Brussels sprouts on Golarion?

Wee tiny cabbages. Behbeh cabbages.


Yes and yes. I'll pitch in my moolah to hopefully get the Balanced and Corrupted Champions to be made! Maybe I'll finally buckle in and subscribe to this....Any idea of what the monthly cost is for the subscription? I know it depends on the month and what's published I'm just talking ballpark here.

Contributor

Pendin Fust wrote:
Yes and yes. I'll pitch in my moolah to hopefully get the Balanced and Corrupted Champions to be made! Maybe I'll finally buckle in and subscribe to this....Any idea of what the monthly cost is for the subscription? I know it depends on the month and what's published I'm just talking ballpark here.

It's cover price + shipping (as seen here). Add an existing product to your shopping cart to get an idea of what shipping would be like.


Ah gotcha, Thanks Liz! Bimonthly...now I know how much :)

Liberty's Edge

Pendin Fust wrote:
Ah gotcha, Thanks Liz! Bimonthly...now I know how much :)

Actually they are aiming for monthly. Recently they have hit some snags that have pushed back most of October's and November's subscriptions to December and January where we are scheduled to get a double hit of gaming goodness. After that it will hopefully even out as they have, IIRC, taken on more staff to help keep this from happening in the future.

Silver Crusade

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

hugs monitor

Thank you, Paizo. Thank you.

Pfffh! You and I talked about this at Gen Con. You know this one's for you. ;)

All of my <3's. :D

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:


Keep an eye out later in the year for our book on Crusaders, which will be all about the religious agendas of a variety of Golarion's deities and how to play faithful characters of all classes.

Man, the hits just keep coming! I'm assuming this is scheduled to come out with Wrath of the Righteous...sounds like that AP is getting a LOT of support down the line.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:

I would like to request an expansion of the Summon Monster list to include more Good aligned creatures. There are 7 such creatures on the list, 3 of which are in Summon Monster IX.

I want my Angel Summoner.

I'm having a bit of a paw in this too. Angel summoning you say? I might have a couple of things for ya... *saintly grin*.

Grand Lodge Contributor

I've got a small talon in this too. I mean an avoral's talon, obviously. An avoral's talon dipped in celestial squid ink, scratching messages from the divine onto parchment soaked in the joyful tears of martyred paladins*

*Final product description may differ.

Dark Archive

Mikaze wrote:
Man, the hits just keep coming! I'm assuming this is scheduled to come out with Wrath of the Righteous...sounds like that AP is getting a LOT of support down the line.

As a gamer who's wanted a Mendevian Crusades/Worldwound adventure path ever since, well, forever, I'm absolutely ecstatic by the adventure path and the insane amount of support material it gets. Even if we won't see a lot of celestials in the adventure path itself, I reckon that Chronicle of the Righteous will see a lot of use when I run Wrath of the Righteous. The fact that we'll be seeing a ton of player-oriented support as well (Champions of Purity, Demon Hunter's Handbook, etc.) makes me a very excited GM.

Contributor

Another member of the writing team here. I'm listening, as well, though I have less of the crunchy bits on the book.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

ChristinaStiles wrote:

Another member of the writing team here. I'm listening, as well, though I have less of the crunchy bits on the book.

Hey Congrats on this! Welcome to the Golem Factory!


Welcome to the Golem Factory, we've got fun and games?


ChristinaStiles wrote:

Another member of the writing team here. I'm listening, as well, though I have less of the crunchy bits on the book.

In other words - you've got the most important bits of it. :)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Pendin Fust wrote:
Ah gotcha, Thanks Liz! Bimonthly...now I know how much :)

That subscription description was a bit out of date—it's a monthly book now.

Contributor

Mazlith wrote:
What do you do with all those goblin babies?

I'd be interested in hearing what folks have done in-campaign with those goblin babies. :)

Contributor

Jim Groves wrote:
ChristinaStiles wrote:

Another member of the writing team here. I'm listening, as well, though I have less of the crunchy bits on the book.

Hey Congrats on this! Welcome to the Golem Factory!

Shh! Don't let them know there's a misfit kobold in the golem factory. No telling what'll those golems will do to me! :)

Contributor

Kajehase wrote:
ChristinaStiles wrote:

Another member of the writing team here. I'm listening, as well, though I have less of the crunchy bits on the book.

In other words - you've got the most important bits of it. :)

Lol! Yeah, yeah that's the ticket. :)

I've looked over the main crunchy bits the outline requested, and those sound way interesting. I look forward to seeing how they turn out, myself!

Silver Crusade

ChristinaStiles wrote:
Mazlith wrote:
What do you do with all those goblin babies?
I'd be interested in hearing what folks have done in-campaign with those goblin babies. :)

Tried to tend to them. Even willing to retire my good aligned character If that's what it would take to see them cared for.

And all of that instantly derailed by other party members immediately starting to slaughter them with the excuses: "they're evil!" or "this is the merciful thing to do!".

That's just one of the reasons I've been starved for a book like this for years.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
ChristinaStiles wrote:
Mazlith wrote:
What do you do with all those goblin babies?
I'd be interested in hearing what folks have done in-campaign with those goblin babies. :)

As a GM I had an NPC Slaughter them and use the XP to Level up.

Contributor

Mikaze wrote:

Tried to tend to them. Even willing to retire my good aligned character If that's what it would take to see them cared for.

I like it! What was your character's name, and mind if I utilize it somewhere/somehow?

Quote:


That's just one of the reasons I've been starved for a book like this for years.

I like that Paizo puts out products aimed at varying playing styles. Just the other night, in fact, I was looking over Rule of Fear and saw Wes' note about putting aside the miniatures and battlemat for the good of the story, just utilizing description and perhaps a whiteboard to ensure the PCs' focus remains on the story and the horror rather than what a PC's abilities and round-by-round battle actions could be. That's the way I grew up playing 1e, so I totally get that style. Of course, it's a playing style that won't suit all Pathfinder fans, but some will find value in trying it. I'm glad to see Wes and Paizo suggest it, detailing why it can be useful.

So, for you and Wes, I'm gonna champion saving baby goblins. :)

Contributor

Stratagemini wrote:
As a GM I had an NPC Slaughter them and use the XP to Level up.

Oy!!!

Meanie. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Stratagemini wrote:
ChristinaStiles wrote:
Mazlith wrote:
What do you do with all those goblin babies?
I'd be interested in hearing what folks have done in-campaign with those goblin babies. :)
As a GM I had an NPC Slaughter them and use the XP to Level up.

Wait,

Goblin Babies are worth XP?!?!

3...

2..

1.

>Mind Blown<

Contributor

Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:


I'd be interested in hearing what folks have done in-campaign with those goblin babies. :)
As a GM I had an NPC Slaughter them and use the XP to Level up.

Wait,

Goblin Babies are worth XP?!?!

3...

2..

1.

>Mind Blown<

Yeah, I was kinda thinking that too. :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It wasn't a lot of XP. But it was enough to Level up. I ran them as first level Goblin Commoners with the Young Template, since in Goblins of Golarion they're described as basically self sufficient. So you'd get more XP drowning a sackful of Kittens. Which is another thing that probably wouldn't appropriate for characters in this book.

That said, the way that Goblins are described in Goblins of Golarion heavily implies an innate vicious propensity to the babies. You'd be very hard pressed to raise them to be good. They might not be innately evil, but you can't exactly leave them alone and let them flee.


I hope we will get a new Sorcerer Bloodline in this one, could use another celestial type(Azata, Agathion, etc.) bloodline or at least a bloodline with good themed abilities that has no ties to celestials or religion.


What's more important, stopping the evil Lich or spending years trying to nurture Goblin babies to good-alignment? Or atleast not-evil?

What happens when, despite your characters best efforts, a goblin baby does turn irreparably evil? Do you slay this creature you've spent so much time caring for?

This is going to be a fun book.

Dark Archive

Stratagemini wrote:
So you'd get more XP drowning a sackful of Kittens.

How much is a sackful of kittens? Would this be cost-effective, particularly if you could resell (or reuse) the sack?

The suffocation rules are kinda wonky. Assuming a Con score of 9, a kitten could take 20 rounds or more to actually die from this. Would dropping the sack from a 20 ft. height be better, from a time-management standpoint, allowing you to get more XP/hour?

Leveling is serious business, y'all!

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Cheapy wrote:

What's more important, stopping the evil Lich or spending years trying to nurture Goblin babies to good-alignment? Or atleast not-evil?

What happens when, despite your characters best efforts, a goblin baby does turn irreparably evil? Do you slay this creature you've spent so much time caring for?

This is going to be a fun book.

Well, as a result of nurturing it, it should probably have some class levels, and with all the Roleplay XP your GM might have given you for raising the thing, and all the XP from your tortured quest to put down the monster you unwittingly created, well maybe you'll get enough XP to level up high enough to kill the Lich. Or Better Yet! Maybe the Goblin will become the Lich's Apprentice! And you can kill him as the Big Boss' Right Hand Man. COmplete with a dramatic tear-filled death scene where the goblin finally admits that he did it all because he thought you never loved him, and he wanted your approval, with a heart touching reunion as the baby is redeemed at his moment of death.

That has to be worth Tons of XP.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Set wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:
So you'd get more XP drowning a sackful of Kittens.

How much is a sackful of kittens? Would this be cost-effective, particularly if you could resell (or reuse) the sack?

The suffocation rules are kinda wonky. Assuming a Con score of 9, a kitten could take 20 rounds or more to actually die from this. Would dropping the sack from a 20 ft. height be better, from a time-management standpoint, allowing you to get more XP/hour?

Leveling is serious business, y'all!

Interesting Question! Lets run through this.

A basic house cat in Pathfinder is a Tiny creature with a challenge rating of 1/4th. Hitting it with a Young template moves the CR down a step to CR 1/6th. a single character defeating a CR 1/6th enemy gains 65 XP, I'm going to assume that this kitten drowning isn't a group event because A. that would be horrible. and B. if you're drowning kittens for XP you're very unlikely to want to share the XP.

Now how much is a Kitten? The Aventurer's Armory puts a Cat at 3cp. Since Cats are usually bought while kittens we'll keep that price. A Sack is both 1sp and Reusable, presuming you have something to tie to it so you can retrieve it after you drown the kittens. It holds 1 cubic foot of space. Now a Fine creature (like a kitten) occupies a space of 1/2 a cubic foot. So You should be able to fit 4 Kittens in a sack.

Assuming 20 rounds to drown a sack of four kittens that's 2 minutes, 1sp and 2cp for 260xp. Or 130xp every minute for 6cp. Excluding start up expenses like the initial sack. and Time spent buying or catching the kittens. that's a bit more than a CR 1/2 enemy every 2 minutes.

It would take 73 minutes and 85 seconds to gain 9600 xp, or about a CR 10 Enemy. And would cost 433 cp. Or Roughly 4 Gold pieces, 4 Silver, and 3 Copper. However, it would also require approximately 295 kittens, give or take a third of a kitten.

So You'd be slightly higher than Level 4 on a medium advancement track in slightly more than an hour.

It would probably be Effort prohibitive.


Acquiring kittens is a problem that generally solves itself if you get a small seed number and just wait.

Silver Crusade

ChristinaStiles wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

Tried to tend to them. Even willing to retire my good aligned character If that's what it would take to see them cared for.

I like it! What was your character's name, and mind if I utilize it somewhere/somehow?

! Wow, I wouldn't mind at all. Extremely honored actually! :D Stallius Shierre was the last one that happened with. He was another character that was meant to be redemptive but never got to do any real redeeming.

Quote:

I like that Paizo puts out products aimed at varying playing styles. Just the other night, in fact, I was looking over Rule of Fear and saw Wes' note about putting aside the miniatures and battlemat for the good of the story, just utilizing description and perhaps a whiteboard to ensure the PCs' focus remains on the story and the horror rather than what a PC's abilities and round-by-round battle actions could be. That's the way I grew up playing 1e, so I totally get that style. Of course, it's a playing style that won't suit all Pathfinder fans, but some will find value in trying it. I'm glad to see Wes and Paizo suggest it, detailing why it can be useful.

So, for you and Wes, I'm gonna champion saving baby goblins. :)

The more I hear about what's going into this book(both the details and the philosophy), the more it feels like finally "coming home". Really eager to see what you guys do. :)

Silver Crusade

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Cheapy wrote:
What's more important, stopping the evil Lich or spending years trying to nurture Goblin babies to good-alignment? Or atleast not-evil?

First I'd be searching for a reliable organization that could take care of them, like say a church of any good deity deserving of the alignment. If for some reason no such organization or support network can be found, I retire my character and bring in a new one to join the fight.

It's not an either-or between Save The World and Don't Murder Babies. When faced with two horrifically evil choices, Good either finds or makes a third option. Good doesn't take the convenient way out.

Quote:

What happens when, despite your characters best efforts, a goblin baby does turn irreparably evil? Do you slay this creature you've spent so much time caring for?

I find a new GM that doesn't stick to the Always Chaotic Evil trope as gospel, one in whose game I could actually enjoy playing a genuine good character.


Pssh. It's not a proper discussion of Good without hypothetical situations that would never appear in reality.

Silver Crusade

Ravenmantle wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Man, the hits just keep coming! I'm assuming this is scheduled to come out with Wrath of the Righteous...sounds like that AP is getting a LOT of support down the line.
As a gamer who's wanted a Mendevian Crusades/Worldwound adventure path ever since, well, forever, I'm absolutely ecstatic by the adventure path and the insane amount of support material it gets. Even if we won't see a lot of celestials in the adventure path itself, I reckon that Chronicle of the Righteous will see a lot of use when I run Wrath of the Righteous. The fact that we'll be seeing a ton of player-oriented support as well (Champions of Purity, Demon Hunter's Handbook, etc.) makes me a very excited GM.

Demon Hunter's Handbook coming? Missed this. Where's the reference?

Silver Crusade

Shaun Hocking wrote:
celestial squid

Also want!

squid/octopus/etc. agathion is fine too!

Silver Crusade

Winter_Born wrote:


Demon Hunter's Handbook coming? Missed this. Where's the reference?

EDIT: oh Goodman Games release.

Paizo's coming out with their own next year too for the Wrath of the Righteous AP!

Silver Crusade

Mikaze wrote:
Winter_Born wrote:


Demon Hunter's Handbook coming? Missed this. Where's the reference?

EDIT: oh Goodman Games release.

Paizo's coming out with their own next year too for the Wrath of the Righteous AP!

Awesome, thank you!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
Shaun Hocking wrote:
celestial squid

Also want!

squid/octopus/etc. agathion is fine too!

Somebody managed to miss Shattered Star 1 bestiary, likely due to being to busy crusading ;-)


Mikaze wrote:
Winter_Born wrote:


Demon Hunter's Handbook coming? Missed this. Where's the reference?

EDIT: oh Goodman Games release.

Paizo's coming out with their own next year too for the Wrath of the Righteous AP!

Followed by Fists & Feathers (player companion) - the authoritative guide on tengu monks. You heard it here first folks!

Silver Crusade

Gorbacz wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Shaun Hocking wrote:
celestial squid

Also want!

squid/octopus/etc. agathion is fine too!

Somebody managed to miss Shattered Star 1 bestiary, likely due to being to busy crusading ;-)

Nope, already familiar with that one. It's based on the bishop fish which is not a real cephalopod.

Also, not a real fish.[/huntergathers]

But any new weird/exotic/aquatic/etc. celestials are welcome, whatever their shape.

Dark Archive

Mikaze wrote:
But any new weird/exotic/aquatic/etc. celestials are welcome, whatever their shape.

Whales and dolphins, especially, have 'good' reputations and would make for interesting celestials (a la the cetaceal).

Fuzzy friendly very lawful bee celestials that produce honey that acts like Keoghtum's Ointment (whatever that's called now a days...) would also be kinda neat.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Moosathel.


Moosathel?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Moosathel. *nods sagely*

Dark Archive

Will the moosathel have a flying squirellon as a familiar / companion?

Scarab Sages

Set wrote:

Will the moosathel have a flying squirellon as a familiar / companion?

That would be.... awesome.

How much xp are moosathel and squirellon worth? (I ask in a devious faux-Russian accent)


Kill moose and squirel;)

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