I would imagine that Cardinal Thorn or Tiadora would help arrange the devil-duel that you need to pass in order to earn the prestige class.
What Hellknight order would fit the campaign best? Order of the Gate?
There's one invented just for this campaign. It's the Order of the Brand. Read it all here.
That said...
** spoiler omitted **
Ah. Does the Order of the Brand have it's own unique disciplines?
The Order of the Brand was just something I came up with while chatting on this board. Being as the various Hellknight orders are within Paizo's IP, I must leave it to you to flesh out.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
From what I understand about IP (which is admitedly not that much) the mechanical aspects are fine to play with. It is the name and any images that are IP. So, you can create an order of knights that looks Hellknight, smells Hellknight, but uses a different name and artwork.
- Gauss
They have to use a different backgroud too. You can have an order of knights that are asmodean, lawful harsh and devil-worshipping. But you cant have them using the same recruiting methods, same hierarchy, etc.
The easiest method is to take one of the officials and reskin it
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The PCs finally finished Thorn's Test.
While the party discussed what they should do, the ninja headed off on his own and dropped caltrops behind him. Entering the draugr room by himself, he discovered eight coffins. Walking back out of the room, he yells out to everyone that there were coffins inside, then left once more.
Opening the first one, the ninja took out his short sword and stabbed it into the chest of what he thought was just a mere zombie (no Knowledges other than local). To his amazement, he short sword didn't even penetrate the skin of the creature. Woken up, the draugr attacked.
The others slowly realized that the ninja was gone and discovered the caltrops blocking off the entrance. Someone thought they had heard someone yelling in their direction about coffins, but didn't really register it because they were too busy planning things.
The slaver easily jumped over the caltrops and made her way into the room, with her bow. Seeing that there were eight enemies, she randomly chose one that wasn't already encountered (she doesn't have Precise Shot) and fired. She too realized quite quickly how useless piercing weapons were and dropped the bow on the ground, quickly pulling out her longsword for next time.
The rest of the party slowly made their way to the secret entrance, so as to not hurt themselves while moving through the caltrops. The cleric was there first, and managed to command one of the draugr. Using it, he had it attacks its friends.
Within in a few rounds, the slaver was dropped by the draug's greataxe, but thankfully never got killed off due to the cleric continually healing her when she was in trouble.
The pyro wizard was pissed when he realized that the draugr were resistant to fire. He only had a dagger and fire magic memorized. He gave the slaver some cover so they couldn't completely kill her off, but wasn't the least bit happy about having to do that and not be of much use in the battle. The oracle couldn't do much either because she had mostly mind-affecting spells.
With Power Attack and Cleave, as well as a greatsword, the anti-paladin eventually managed to take out all of the draugr.
Moving to the different doors that led to the shrieker's room, they decided to purposely set it off, making everyone who heard it think that they had messed up, and had woken up the draugr that way. Once the alarm was raised, they destroyed the fungus with a fire jet and fire bolt.
Heading back to the draugr room, they took the key off the wall and entered Sir Balin's room. Having heard the alarm, he was readied for whoever had made their way to him, whether friend or foe.
Everyone immediately froze when they realized who they were witnessing. With the exception of the slaver who was currently disguised as an elf, everyone else in the party hadn't activated their circlet. They couldn't be bothered to, and honestly saw no point.
Initiative was rolled and the anti-paladin with smite good went first. However, as mentioned, Sir Balin was readied and struck the anti-paladin as he made the charge. Both did critical damage to each other. The anti-paladin was bleeding profusely, but so was Sir Balin.
Racing into the room, the other fired spell after spell, while the ninja and slaver flanked the knight, and stabbed him in the organs and spine.
The knight would not relent, but another dose of the anti-paladin's smite good managed to take him out.
As Sir Balin was losing consciousness, the pyro wizard told Balin that "it was the corruption of the prison the set us free, as well as our not inconsiderable skill. On top of our escape, and combine that with Timeon's conversion, your failure is now complete."
They slew Balin, disrobed him, performed a sacrificial ritual on the body, dedicated it to Asmodeus, then turned what was left of the body to ash with a flaming sphere. Taking the holy symbol, the anti-paladin uses it to keep her hair up in a ponytail.
The party goes back to where they left Timeon, and tell him to come with them. He agrees.
Exiting the test, they decide to fool around with Jarvis, the accountant, and make him believe that they're still working on the exam, and that they desperately need his help. When he asks what they need, they ask for polish for the new bobble in the dragon's hair. Realizing he's being made fun of, and that they may have actually completed the exam in a few hours, he heads into the basement for a few minutes. A little bit later, he comes out seething. The dragon had destroyed the door that led into the mithral cobra room. It was literally splinters. He told them that it'd come out of their pocket later, so help him. The party ignored him and left to go see Thorn.
He is pleased with the destruction of the night and the corruption of the squire. When Timeon asks what he's referring to, Thorn bluffs that the party had destroyed Sir Balin and got revenge on the knight on behalf of the squire (due to their disguise ploy from the last session that eventually broke Timeon's soul).
Because of how the players themselves were acting about their characters, and making them extremely cocky, I secretly had the PCs get their egos tested. The wizard failed, hard. While they did win, he didn't believe he actually needed the party. That he was enough to take out everything. That he could solo everything. Considering the blunder that was the fire resistant draugr, Thorn chastised him for his performance, and told him that he would not accept personal gains over what was supposed to be a team player scenario. The wizard hung his head in shame, and promised to work on that. The others, minus the anti-paladin who got an "incomplete" because she honestly didn't care if the whole party lived or died, managed to get a bare passing mark with regards to their own egos. However, Thorn explained that he expected better in the future. That their "pissing contests" would endanger everything. And this time, if they were caught and taken back to Branderscar, he would not assist them. The party rescinded.
Taking the amulet, he goes into the speech that's in the adventure, and gives it back to the dragon.
Satisfied, he tells the party to rest up because they were going to be trained himself and Tiadora soon. When they were ready, they'd be heading off to complete their first real mission. Guarding a sea convoy that's heading North.
Total in-game time for the exam was seven hours. Four of which was torturing and breaking Timeon into becoming their slave.
Just wondering if there are ways of intergrating followers of other evil deities? Say a barbarian who follows a god of slaughter who gets rather upset at the thought of having to toe Asmodeus's line?
Andrea: there are several followers of that kind in the books. Like wraiths who follow a cult of death and decay from a Pale Horsemen and whatnot.
However
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Just wondering if there are ways of intergrating followers of other evil deities? Say a barbarian who follows a god of slaughter who gets rather upset at the thought of having to toe Asmodeus's line?
I've got that with my group right now. One of the players has a man hating female PC. She therefore dislikes Asmodeus who is essentially the epitome of misogyny. So, she worships someone else. Namely, Doloras, the second whore queen and Lady of Pain. Since she's underneath Asmodeus when it comes to pecking order, anyone who worships her, also worships Asmodeus. Basically, you work for the boss who has a boss above them. The player is content with that.
So, basically how you have to look at it this: Is the deity friends with Asmodeus? Yes? Then it's fine. Does the deity work under Asmodeus? Yes? Then it's fine. Is the deity a rival of Asmodeus? Yes? Then we're in a bit of trouble and have to convince the PC that they're playing on the wrong team.
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My players flew through a fair number of scenarios tonight. One thing that I caught though, and I can't believe I didn't when I was revising the NPC, was the triton oracle is an OUTSIDER. That means d10 HD. Same with the other tritons. So why do they all have d8? That'll have to be added to the errata as well.
Outsiders only have d10 in their racial hit die. The rest of the die (class die) are like the class. A half-fiend human wizard has d6 HD, not d10. The triton oracle has the right HD for his 4th level oracle class, but he lacks the 3 racial HD for being triton. He should have 7 HD, 3 of them d10, and 4 of them d8. But depending on the party, that might be a quite hard challenge.
The tale of our little Knot is now up to date. We've just started the 4th Act (and levelled up to 4th) and so far it's been a blast.
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Outsiders only have d10 in their racial hit die. The rest of the die (class die) are like the class. A half-fiend human wizard has d6 HD, not d10. The triton oracle has the right HD for his 4th level oracle class, but he lacks the 3 racial HD for being triton. He should have 7 HD, 3 of them d10, and 4 of them d8. But depending on the party, that might be a quite hard challenge.
I know. I updated it and put it up on here a little while back. I just hadn't caught the part of the d8 outsider HD being wrong. As well, the OTHER four tritons are also just outsiders, and they too have 3d8 instead 3d10. Hence why my post said "they".
Outsiders only have d10 in their racial hit die. The rest of the die (class die) are like the class. A half-fiend human wizard has d6 HD, not d10. The triton oracle has the right HD for his 4th level oracle class, but he lacks the 3 racial HD for being triton. He should have 7 HD, 3 of them d10, and 4 of them d8. But depending on the party, that might be a quite hard challenge.I know. I updated it and put it up on here a little while back. I just hadn't caught the part of the d8 outsider HD being wrong. As well, the OTHER four tritons are also just outsiders, and they too have 3d8 instead 3d10. Hence why my post said "they".
I don't know if there was a errata somewhere and we have different versions of the PDF, but the Tritons in my book are d10
Copy paste:
Triton Warriors (4) C R 2
XP 600 each (2400 XP total)
NG Medium outsider (native, water)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +7
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 10, flat-footed 14 (+4 natural)
hp 19 (3d10+3)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +4
OFFENSE
Speed 5 ft., swim 40 ft.
Melee masterwork trident +5 (1d8+1)
Ranged heavy crossbow +4 (1d10+1/19–20)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +7)
1/day—summon nature’s ally II (Small water elemental or 1d3
dolphins only)
STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 11
Base Atk +3; CMB +4; CMD 14
Feats Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack
Skills Craft (any one) +7, Diplomacy +6, Perception +7, Ride +6,
Sense Motive +7, Stealth +6, Survival +7, Swim +9
Languages Aquan, Common
Combat Gear masterwork trident, heavy crossbow, 10 bolts
Just wondering if there are ways of intergrating followers of other evil deities? Say a barbarian who follows a god of slaughter who gets rather upset at the thought of having to toe Asmodeus's line?
Andrea, what I'm doing is setting it out very clearly that players have to make a character who can say yes to Thorn's proposal. I don't care why, but they have to say yes, and I give them enough information to structure a character around that including the fact that they are going to be working, essentially, for Asmodeus. What one of my players intends to do, and I think it's brilliant, is his character is actually going to worship one of the archdukes rather than Asmodeus himself. This way, he's still lawful evil, its subservient to the system Asmodeus has built, and he has a reason to go along for the "ride", but it gives him substantially more breadth in terms of selecting a greater being that matches the vision of his character.
Bought and read through Book #1 and I like it, but I do believe it stumbles in an important area.
The land of Talingarde is presented more as 'Lawful Stupid Good' (Such as Miko the paladin in Order of the Stick') with torture rooms, 'imprisonment for naughty thoughts' and such. While I am exaggerating some, I think this makes it easier for players to get into guilt-free slaying and desecrating of the Crapacchrince land of Talingarde instead of thinking, 'Whoa, we are going to have to be utter bastards to do this.' Was this intentional so people can get into the roles easier?
Bought and read through Book #1 and I like it, but I do believe it stumbles in an important area.
The land of Talingarde is presented more as 'Lawful Stupid Good' (Such as Miko the paladin in Order of the Stick') with torture rooms, 'imprisonment for naughty thoughts' and such. While I am exaggerating some, I think this makes it easier for players to get into guilt-free slaying and desecrating of the Crapacchrince land of Talingarde instead of thinking, 'Whoa, we are going to have to be utter bastards to do this.' Was this intentional so people can get into the roles easier?
Through the books you'll learn that the Land of Talingarde is one thing, and House Darius (the ruling goverment) is a different thing.
While Markarian, the Mitran church, and and House Darius are bassically the archtypical good guys, not everybody in the world is like that. You'll find a couple evil noble lords (some of them you can add as allies), you'll find neighbourhoods with rampant crime, a Red Quarter with Brothels in one of the most important cities, people running illegal pit-fighting bets, and some guys who are blatantly corrupt (the Sargeant of Brandescar Prison, for example).
The Inquisition is also quite harsh. If you notice, most crimes in the starting crime traits are punished with death. Other members of the Mitran faith are much more benevolent. The order of St Macharius, for example, which is much much more "good" than "lawful", is a different kind. And
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Was very nearly a party wipe last night after the ninja decided "Hmm, I haven't killed anything for a while (game time) and my blade's thirsty for blood. Let's go to the camp fire full of guys that I believe I can take on by myself." Yeah, he got pummeled pretty hard because I got really lucky with the rolls, and he didn't. The rest of the party got there and were swarmed by the rest of the crew.
I had it so that after the bugbears, the PCs went north to talk to the Ice Troll King, and they had to perform a service. All they had to do was infiltrate a long abandoned wizard's tower, and tell him what was inside, and if possible, dispel the ward that kept the enemies of dwarves out (giants, orcs, goblinoids). The rogue went in, saw Savage North people, tried to slay them. That failed. Hard.
They created so much noise that the entire tribe heard. And after deciding on playing Stupid Evil, instead of fleeing from 20 barbarians, of which eight alone had taken out the ninja and the cleric, they were going to stick around and fight instead. For doing that, I very much wanted to teach them a lesson and get have them get wiped out.
I stepped in and let them know that they couldn't win this as they were. Twice. Because even after giving them the chance to leave, they still went "We got this." So I brought in the shaman and two rangers, a saber-tooth cat, and a wolf animal companion. Surprisingly enough, they still weren't concerned. Even tried to intimidate the entire tribe. Obviously didn't work. "I produce fire in my hands. They're stupid barbarians. They should be running." "That's nice. So does the shaman (druid). They're not scared."
Eventually they took the hint and ran. They'll try again next week.
They didn't even bat an eye when it came to the Yutak tribe. They were nice, and did trading. Even set up an alliance with them. These guys? Oh, I haven't murdered anything in a while. I'm practically foaming at the mouth. I need to kill and mutilate. Isn't that bordering on chaotic? Answer: "Who cares? I'm a ninja. I don't worship anything and my alignment doesn't matter for my class so you can't penalize me." Sure I can. The cleric can choose to never heal you if you're too chaotic to his lawful.
I'm finding that while running this campaign, those who are neutral in the party, are actually being borderline chaotic, and it's getting kind of scary. Especially when they say that they like the campaign, their character, and don't want to quit.
Actually the cleric (assuming he is a barristan cleric archetype from book V ) can only heal you if you are faithful to his god, AFAIR. :)
Nice leasson there. They are lucky that thy didn't wipe. A few deaths would be nice, especially in your campaign as they have 3 "free insert coin" from that extra lives feat you give them. Losing one for being stubborn is a great way to learn ;)
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Actually the cleric (assuming he is a barristan cleric archetype from book V ) can only heal you if you are faithful to his god, AFAIR. :)
Nice leasson there. They are lucky that thy didn't wipe. A few deaths would be nice, especially in your campaign as they have 3 "free insert coin" from that extra lives feat you give them. Losing one for being stubborn is a great way to learn ;)
Yeah, that's the cleric that they've got in the party, but the ninja's never worried about that until now because he's never gotten hit, let alone knocked down.
I honestly did want to cost them their one life just to make sure things stuck in their head. Hopefully next time they'll have learned. If not, then I will take away one of their lives.
Well, then with the Unholy Barrister, there IS a penalty for being Chaotic Stupid. If you are a "hey, I don't care for anything" ninja, since only those swearing loyalty to Asmodeus are healed by the Unholy Barrister ability. Everyone else takes damage, unless they are undead.
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Feels to me like you should have just killed the ninja, set an example :D
Especially because he did act like an a$$+#$* saying things like "I don't care you can't punish me"
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Feels to me like you should have just killed the ninja, set an example :D
Especially because he did act like an a$##$+& saying things like "I don't care you can't punish me"
He'd have been alright with it in the end. He's got another 10 characters cooked up for the campaign. A couple of players are like that. They have "options" available to them. They aren't really all that attached to their characters. Then you have the couple that actually are.
He's said to me a few times now in every campaign that he's been a player for, and not even all in my campaigns.
@gustavo iglesias -- I didn't read that in the description.
@gustavo iglesias -- I didn't read that in the description.
Well, now you have a convincing argument to point to your disruptive player :).
If he wanna be healed by the cleric channelling, he'll need to swear loyalty to Asmodeus, and stop being a Chaotic Stupid.|
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@gustavo iglesias -- I didn't read that in the description.Well, now you have a convincing argument to point to your disruptive player :).
If he wanna be healed by the cleric channelling, he'll need to swear loyalty to Asmodeus, and stop being a Chaotic Stupid.
That might be, but even if he does swear loyalty, he'll still act CS, and just say that I'm splitting hairs.
Book One is back in stock! Also, all old backorders should be in the process of being fulfilled! Thanks for everyone's patience and thanks for supporting "Way of the Wicked".
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
The land of Talingarde is presented more as 'Lawful Stupid Good'...
I'm likely dating myself a bit here, but I had that initial impression, too, so I've put a slightly darker spin on "Lawful Good" by drawing on the Kingpriest and First Cataclysm from the DragonLance campaign setting. Uber-Lawful Good to the point of where it becomes a reflection of Evil. "We are so good, anything that doesn't agree with us is probably evil, and therefore must be imprisoned or killed." I've plopped the campaign into Golarion/Inner Sea, but said that more than geography, the island is separated from the mainland by isolationism and xenophobia. The only foreign ships allowed to dock are Andoran, and even they are viewed with suspicion. That kind of an environment also gives room for those who are not true believes (and not even really good) to thrive, because they dress up their goals and accumulation of power in the trappings of doing right.
So, it's still "good", but it's filled with a self-righteousness and pride that comes from a lack of introspection and room for competing ideology.
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For anyone who's ran the game, or planning on running the game, especially Gary, have you come across a player like this yet? Especially around the contract spot with Thorn, and getting the players to sign it.
This happened while talking to a some players at one of our gaming days, and promoting Fire Mountain Games, Way of the Wicked, and the upcoming Throne of Night.
His immediate reaction was to scoff and laugh at the notion, and say that that's exactly why he hated APs. You got railroaded, and the authors are too dumb to leave enough room for outside thinking or proper roleplay. He said "NE can walk away from that easily. Even if Asmodeus himself threatened your life, yeah it'd be up for forfeit, but you can still walk away from it all the while flipping everyone the bird and completely derailing the campaign." Then he brought up that he loved to play lawful characters because they take over the campaign completely. "I'm LN 90% of the time because that way I can write the contracts as I please." When I mentioned that the contract was pre-written he said he'd ask for a copy of it, look it over, and re-write it to HIS conditions. If he's not getting what he wants out of the deal, which is what contracts are all about, then he wasn't signing a thing." When I brought up that he would "allowed" to leave, but there was a chance that he'd be killed for knowing too much information, or else the militia would get him and execute him for breaking out of prison. "So, for me THINKING you're going to PUNISH me? That's just poor GMing, and I wouldn't want to play in a game like that. If I was in charge of running the game, I'd REWARD my players for not just accepting a dumbass railroading adventure. I'd demand to meet with either Asmodeus himself, or even just see a devil who represents him. Give him the contract, tell him to come back after he's either met the conditions of what I want, OR comes up with a counter offer that we can haggle on. Until then, nothing gets signed. If he wants my soul bad enough, he'll have to earn it. Otherwise, I get killed off and someone else gets it, but NOT Asmodeus." This was definitely not an adventure for him. He wasn't even sure if he could handle GMing it because it'd be too linear and railroadish.
The guy in question has an actual law degree, and majored in contract writing skills.
I actually had to walk away from the guy in the end. He was just one of those people I couldn't handle.
He sounds...extra special. I do know a group that cannot handle railroading at all, and will deliberately try and derail the campaign. Some people are like that. But Way of the Wicked does cover what happens if characters refuse to sign. Sure, it's rather terminal, but it's there. There's an alternative to just about everything, from what I've been told by my wife, and enough options that we still don't feel like it's railroading.
It's not punishing a player to kill them over a bad decision. Especially since that decision is key to making the campaign function. He's basically saying, 'I want my fun, and it's not fair if you don't let me have it exactly how I want. If that destroys a game or sticks others in awkward positions, well, that's them.'
For anyone who's ran the game, or planning on running the game, especially Gary, have you come across a player like this yet? Especially around the contract spot with Thorn, and getting the players to sign it.
This happened while talking to a some players at one of our gaming days, and promoting Fire Mountain Games, Way of the Wicked, and the upcoming Throne of Night.
** spoiler omitted **...
I would have at least listen to his additions to the contract. Maybe Thorn would set up a new contract - as long as he gets what he wants (an obedient knot who must do his biding).
The biggest failure is that the contracts aren´t magical. The PC may be bound by them, but the players are not really. Even if they break it there are no direct penalties. There were magic contracts in 2nd Edition / 3.0 / 3.5. Gary should have made the contract clearer (what exactly are the PC forbidden to to). And it should have DIRECT reprisals if the players don´t adhere to the contract. Say a pc does the ultimate stupid thing and murders another pc. So maybe a rift opens and he gets dragged to hell. If a player steals from the others he gains every day he doesn´t repay the stolen money an amount of damage or a geas - like effect (the spell). Yeah Soul to hell to be tortured in afterlife will not work with every player!
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I wonder how he plays any adventure. Anything with a plot necessarily involves some degree of railroading. More fundamentally, if he thinks evil characters must necessarily plot to kill one another because they're evil, he'd seem to have a small imagination. Evil =/= stupid. Even evil people have friends, lovers, allies.
Meh. I've told my whole group, straight out, they will be presented with a choice about working together to overthrow this regime and work for Asmodeus. The characters' reasons can be whatever the players want, but fundamentally the characters need to say "yes". I don't care why, but the character needs to say "yes".
I don't think that's terribly different than, say, Jade Regent where you need a character who can say "yes" to crossing the crown of the world to install a princess on the Jade Throne, or Skull and Shackles where your characters need to say "yes" to a life of piracy, or any other AP. There are fundamental, baseline conceits that form the premise of any adventure. If he has such a profound objection to it, I wonder how he plays any campaign with a plot.
The biggest failure is that the contracts aren´t magical. The PC may be bound by them, but the players are not really. Even if they break it there are no direct penalties.
Why not make one? Okay, it's not just your soul after you die... it's a permanent geas-like effect. If a character faces the prospect of a -12 to every stat, the player will come into line rather quickly. Or something more subtle... each day, they incur an additional -1 to each d20 roll as they begin to notice the shadows moving and whispering around them, tittering about an eternity of damnation and torture, of which this is just a taste. Give the player an opportunity to correct the breach before out-and-out killing the character.
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The biggest failure is that the contracts aren´t magical. The PC may be bound by them, but the players are not really. Even if they break it there are no direct penalties. There were magic contracts in 2nd Edition / 3.0 / 3.5. Gary should have made the contract clearer (what exactly are the PC forbidden to to). And it should have DIRECT reprisals if the players don´t adhere to the contract. Say a pc does the ultimate stupid thing and murders another pc. So maybe a rift opens and he gets dragged to hell. If a player steals from the others he gains every day he doesn´t repay the stolen money an amount of damage or a geas - like effect (the spell). Yeah Soul to hell to be tortured in afterlife will not work with every player!
I actually revised mine so that it is a magical contract. Even made it so that there was ridiculously small print for the fine print. If they ever do anything bad to the members of the group, all of their items, which were given to them (including a handy haversack), will immediately disappear. After which, they have atone for what they did to get their stuff back. However, they are given three strikes before a torturer devil appears and says "No more atoning. It's time for a harsher punishment."
Does this guy normally play magic users? Because if he doesn't then I would have the contracts rewritten to his specifications...and then have magical fine print that only appears after he signs it. Being a jerk works both ways you know.
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Does this guy normally play magic users? Because if he doesn't then I would have the contracts rewritten to his specifications...and then have magical fine print that only appears after he signs it. Being a jerk works both ways you know.
He's almost always a wizard. If he's not allowed to, he'll settle for sorcerer.
Hmm...have it put into another language?
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The biggest failure is that the contracts aren´t magical. The PC may be bound by them, but the players are not really. Even if they break it there are no direct penalties. There were magic contracts in 2nd Edition / 3.0 / 3.5. Gary should have made the contract clearer (what exactly are the PC forbidden to to). And it should have DIRECT reprisals if the players don´t adhere to the contract. Say a pc does the ultimate stupid thing and murders another pc. So maybe a rift opens and he gets dragged to hell. If a player steals from the others he gains every day he doesn´t repay the stolen money an amount of damage or a geas - like effect (the spell). Yeah Soul to hell to be tortured in afterlife will not work with every player!
there's a magical item which solves that:
Pact Partchment. In my game, we use that as the contract.About Kevin Video player: the only solution is to tell that player not to play. He obviously don't like APs, so there's no point to make him play something he doesn't like, and make everybody else experience disgusting. When my mates go to play Basketball, I play with them. When they go to play rugby, I don't go, because I don't like the game. Simple as that.
That said, I'd like to point one thing. That HE, as a person, know more than YOU, as a person, about contracts, doesn't mean his 2nd level character know more than a devil about contracts. Dessiter has +19 in the appropiate proffesion skill. I bet he can juggle with the character enough to make him belief he is signing an adventageous contract. If he can't stay In Character and accept that what HE knows is not what HIS character know, then he have little moral supperority to claim about "propper roleplaying"
@ Gustavo -- love the pact parchment suggestion; that's almost too perfect
What would the DC be to resist Mr.Rogers asking everyone, Mitrian and Asmodain to just like everyone the way they are? :)
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About Kevin Video player: the only solution is to tell that player not to play. He obviously don't like APs, so there's no point to make him play something he doesn't like, and make everybody else experience disgusting. When my mates go to play Basketball, I play with them. When they go to play rugby, I don't go, because I don't like the game. Simple as that.
That said, I'd like to point one thing. That HE, as a person, know more than YOU, as a person, about contracts, doesn't mean his 2nd level character know more than a devil about contracts. Dessiter has +19 in the appropriate profession skill. I bet he can juggle with the character enough to make him belief he is signing an advantageous contract. If he can't stay In Character and accept that what HE knows is not what HIS character know, then he have little moral superiority to claim about "proper roleplaying"
Well, that's exactly it. He's not playing. I was just telling my friend about it, and he was there too, and that's what he said. My friend was totally into it. He loved the idea, and was fine with just accepting the contract just so he could play the game, and see how good it really was.
As for the other guy, since he apparently always plays high Int-based characters (namely every incarnation of the wizard class), it's hard to argue against the fact that he wouldn't know about the contracts.
I told my players about him today, and they all just facepalmed. They know how APs are supposed to work.
As for the other guy, since he apparently always plays high Int-based characters (namely every incarnation of the wizard class), it's hard to argue against the fact that he wouldn't know about the contracts.
Stephen Hawkins has a very high INT, and he knows jack about contracts. He is a world first class expert in physics, though. Having high INT doesn't make you omniscient. One of my Players have spent 8 ranks in Proffesion: Lawyer so far, to know about the contract. Contract Devils have +19 in Proffesion: Scribe (which will work as lawyer in a medieval society). If that PC has ranks in Spellcraft and knowledge arcana, he knows a lot about spells and magic beings, but that doesn't make him an expert in laws (or in infinitesimal calculus, for that matter)
Got a question for you. Other than the Vampire and Lich templates, could other templates be gained in game. My Asmodeus Inqusitor has an ambition to eventually become one of the Enryines in game. Is there a way to transform oneself into a Half-Devil or become a full Devil in game? Back in 3.5, one of the major villians in the game I ran was a powerful wizard who sought immortality by summoning a Fiend (in this case a Succubus) and merging her soul with it through magic, thus gaining a Half-Fiend template. Could something similar be done in Way of the Wicked?
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@HG of Krynn:
Only the Vampire & Lich templates are presented.
However that by no means limits trying to gain some other template.
I'm allowing my players to purchase templates with feats.
For example:
I put the ‘D’ in EVIL!
Benefit: Gain the 1/2 Fiend template
Requires: 4 weeks of bathing in unholy water, drinking unholy water (the stuff you bathed in, yuck!), injections of fiendish blood and a sacrifices equal to your HD of intelligent creatures (you get to eat bits of them too), must be level 10.
Cost: 1 feat and 50,000gp.
I have other variations for Advanced, Giant, 1/2 Dragon, 1/2 Celestial (although my players would have to be very twisted to take that one).
I've also done up one for Graveknight.
And if my players find other cool templates that they want, I'm open to discuss it with them. However, I've also told them that no one can get templates before level 10.
Any characters that wish to become devils...
In terms of effort on behalf of the PC...I'd measure it against what a determined PC would have to do to become a lich. The end result for a lich CAN be death without the UN. Likewise a hopeful fiend might end up as a lowly petitioner wandering the fields of Avernus (or layer of choice) for all eternity, or finding themselves used as a brick in one of Dis' walls. Making the leap from material plane native to powerful nigh-immortal evil outsider...is quite the bit of daring do.
Becoming a devil sounds awesome from a story standpoint though...so if I was GM'ing I'd do whatever I could to make it happen. That kind of stuff is just too fun to pass up. Especially if, in future campaigns, the PCs get to deal with the infernal PC as a devil NPC of some note and power :-).
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I'm having my players drink from the same pool in Book 2 that Grumblejack does in the optional sidequest. That's how they can gain their abilities. Other than that, if you don't want it to be permanent, have them become Devil Bound. They can make a pact with a particular devil, and gain their abilities.
