Kobold Quarterly 21 PDF

Sweet. I'm anxious for this to come out already. Just got two questions. 1) When can we expect the release, and 2) will this have any mention of the base class 3.5 assassin you guys did in your previous mags and how to convert it to Pathfinder?

Huh... I didn't even know Liz had anything other than cookies in the oven! ;)

Can't wait for this. Shaman class sounds great, but I wonder how different it will be from the spirit shaman (3.5), the druid, or the cleric. I'm a nature-magic fanatic, so anything druid-y is relevant to my interests.

The "It's a Mystery" and "Why no Monotheism" articles sound great as well, and could have some excellent synergy. :D

Some subscribers have already gotten their print copies in the mail, so I would say the release is "next week" rather than "this month".

@Kevin_video, check the Letters page.

@Foghammer, I think you'll be pleased with the shaman.

Can't wait for this. Shaman class sounds great, but I wonder how different it will be from the spirit shaman (3.5), the druid, or the cleric. I'm a nature-magic fanatic, so anything druid-y is relevant to my interests.

The "It's a Mystery" and "Why no Monotheism" articles sound great as well, and could have some excellent synergy. :D

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts! The shaman is quite different from the 3.5 spirit shaman - if you like the druid but want something similar yet different, I think this class is well worth a look :)

I'd be interested in a blog post or something about the design decisions behind the shaman.

Somehow I always hear about new issues here before I get my subscription notice... :)

Somehow I always hear about new issues here before I get my subscription notice... :)

Same here.

This issue seems packed.

Really want a look at the shaman class. It's one of the most persistent concepts to show up in the many game editions but varies greatly from edition to edition or even within an edition.

Any chance of being able to take out a subscription to KQ here on paizo.com? I like your delivery system better.

And I'd like to consolidate my downloads.

Still haven't gotten my subscription notice... but the issue is up for download via the website... odd.

sulk, neither a notice nor a DL Link.

Haven't followed the link to buy as I have a subscription, but is it possibly pre-order?

I do indeed like the Shaman. I wish the table had shown the advancement of wild shape throughout the class, though. I was confused by it for a moment, and I find it more convenient for assessing a class's advancement across the levels. That said, I'm statting a shaman out to get a feel for it. So far, I like what I see, though I'm already feeling like it's a druid who has given up more spell versatility than it's gaining in other features.

Definitely love the articles on cults and monotheism.

The ecology of the succubus tested the boundaries of my comfort zone...

I may have more to say when I finish my shaman.

I just picked this up over at RPGNow, and my copy has no front cover...how odd...lol

The DriveThru file is updated, thanks for mentioning that.

And yes, the issue is loaded with great stuff. The Ecology is one, the Mysteries by Zeb Cook is another, and the official Pathfinder Society material is a third. I'm rather fond of this issue.

After reading the editorial, guess I won't be reading this at work. *sigh*

I do indeed like the Shaman. I wish the table had shown the advancement of wild shape throughout the class, though. I was confused by it for a moment, and I find it more convenient for assessing a class's advancement across the levels. That said, I'm statting a shaman out to get a feel for it. So far, I like what I see, though I'm already feeling like it's a druid who has given up more spell versatility than it's gaining in other features.

I may have more to say when I finish my shaman.

Hey there Foghammer!

Good point about including the wild shape advancement on the class ability table. The advancement is detailed in the ability description itself of course, but it probably would have been nice to put it in the table as well!

Regarding giving up more spell versatility than it's gaining in other features ... I'd say what the shaman gains in class features / abilities is pretty much in line with other spontaneous classes like the oracle or sorcerer.

I can tell you the class was thoroughly playtested at different levels (by me and others) and it definitely did not feel like the class was under powered or had given up too much at all! :)

Like the oracle, sorcerer etc, as long as you choose your spells known well, you are fine.

In one playtest, I played a 12th level shaman (Ruatha the Brown) and had a BLAST! He was actually one of the more versatile characters at the table in fact. I was actually bummed when that playtest was finally over because now I miss playing Ruatha!

Looking forward to hearing some actual game play results from your shaman! :)

I'm smarting at bit at the moment because I just purchesed this issue from DriveThruRPG and now I can't write a review to voice my concerns.

I have two dissatisfactions. The first is the Ecology of the Succubus article, specifically how it isn't clearly labeled as an article for the 4th Edition iteration of the Succubus. Having given up 4e long ago because it's not my thing, I bought this issue on the basis of the ecology to find it is completely useless to me. This kind of doubly smarts because I also purchased a previous issue that had 'Ecology of ths Succubus' on the cover art picture but not in the description of the issue. I put that purchase down to my own silly fault but this time I can't be so generous and now I feel that this has been a complete waste of my time and money.

My second problem is that my pdf doesn't come with the cover, only the smaller version on the contents page and cover art is one of the reasons I buy magazines. At least I know to keep an eye out for Kieran Yanner from now on, this cover caught my eye in a sea of otherwise much blander covers.

I couldn't rate the issue down too far because some of the other articles are an interesting read and the ad for Fire Mountain Games' Way of the Wicked has piqued my interest, however, none of that makes up for the disappointment for the main article. If I'd picked the issue up in an LGS, which are rapidly diminishing in my area, I could have passed over this issue after a quick flick through the contents. Perhaps clearly labeling the system that an article is compatable with in your advertizing could help those of us who are forced to make online purchases without seeing the content?

I finished statting out a 6th level shaman that I'm hoping to playtest soon. I've more or less optimized him for healing. I don't think he could run out of healing abilities, even on a party's worst day, and with the totem secrets he took (invisibility and spirit of nature), I don't think he'll be spending much time laying down himself.

I retract my initial reaction. This looks like an awesome alternative to the druid. I am also a big fan for the way the Spirit Bond blurs the line between animal companion and familiar, though I'm a bit confused about how long it lasts.

A shaman can summon the spirit 2/day at 6th level and there's no duration listed. Does that mean that if it is killed in combat, I can summon it a second time as a full round action?

I'm smarting at bit at the moment because I just purchesed this issue from DriveThruRPG and now I can't write a review to voice my concerns.

Why can't you write a review? You should be able to over at DriveThruRPG if you bought it there, and you can post a review here at Paizo without having bought it here.

I have two dissatisfactions. The first is the Ecology of the Succubus article, specifically how it isn't clearly labeled as an article for the 4th Edition iteration of the Succubus. Having given up 4e long ago because it's not my thing, I bought this issue on the basis of the ecology to find it is completely useless to me.

I also found that disappointing. To be fair, the article was fairly well-written, and the mechanics compromise only a small part of the entire piece, so it's possible to get some good mileage out of it no matter what system you play.

On the flipside, however, I found myself disagreeing with a lot of the material from that ecology. The idea that the sexual nature of a succubus is learned, rather than intrinsic, for example, rubbed me the wrong way (pun not intended). Similarly, the whole "only the first-born succubus is fertile" thing seemed unnecessarily complicated - I recognize that a lot of the material with infertile succubi was the author trying to work back in mythological material of succubi who stole seed from men that incubi then used to impregnate women, but I found it unnecessary.

That plays into my other problem with the article - for all its general utility, a lot of it does play into the 4E-specific cosmology. The whole "are succubi really devils, or are they demons in disguise" doesn't work very well in Pathfinder, for example, and the material about Malcanthet doesn't seem like it'd translate too easily to Nocticula (one of Lilith's six children?).

It wasn't bad, and if you play 4E you can likely get a lot of use out of it, but if you don't you'll find that it's utility is limited for you.

My second problem is that my pdf doesn't come with the cover, only the smaller version on the contents page and cover art is one of the reasons I buy magazines.

I uploaded a revised file to DriveThru to solve this issue. You'll find it in your downloads there soon.

Glad to hear you like the issue!

I finished statting out a 6th level shaman that I'm hoping to playtest soon. I've more or less optimized him for healing. I don't think he could run out of healing abilities, even on a party's worst day, and with the totem secrets he took (invisibility and spirit of nature), I don't think he'll be spending much time laying down himself.

I retract my initial reaction. This looks like an awesome alternative to the druid. I am also a big fan for the way the Spirit Bond blurs the line between animal companion and familiar, though I'm a bit confused about how long it lasts.

A shaman can summon the spirit 2/day at 6th level and there's no duration listed. Does that mean that if it is killed in combat, I can summon it a second time as a full round action?

That's great to hear!

Regarding Spirit Bond ... do you mean the shaman's animal spirit guide? If so, the third paragraph under the Animal Spirit Guide section says:

If an animal spirit guide is ever lost or dies, it can be replaced after a full day through a ritual involving 24 uninterrupted hours of fasting and solitary meditation in a natural environment.

So, your 6th level shaman can summon and dismiss his animal spirit guide twice per day. If it gets killed though, the shaman would need a full day of fasting and solitary meditation in a natural environment in order to bring it back.

Does that help?

I have two dissatisfactions. The first is the Ecology of the Succubus article, specifically how it isn't clearly labeled as an article for the 4th Edition iteration of the Succubus.

4e content has been getting lighter in KQ over the last year, but its inclusion still fits the magazine's mission statement: the Switzerland of the edition wars. Even still, it's been a while since KQ started including PF and 4 icons to denote the game each article relates to. You just don't know until you buy the magazine or someone reviews it.

Hey, now, that's just not true! The icons for PF and 4E are right there on the top of each page.

That said, yes, the 4E content is very light. And judging by the slush pile, likely to stay that way. I suspect AGE submissions will overtake 4E by the end of the year.

While I feel sympathy for the 4E fans, Whoo hoo for Age. While I've not gotten to play it, I enjoy the system!

I just downloaded the updated file from DriveThruRPG, and it's still lacking the cover. A shame, since it does look like a very nice-looking cover.
;)

The file I was able to download had 76 pages, with the first being the GenCon advertisement with the big stone "45 YEARS"; and the last page being the "Deadly Trolls and Honest Challenges" article. So it seems to be missing both the front and back covers.

Why can't you write a review? You should be able to over at DriveThruRPG if you bought it there, and you can post a review here at Paizo without having bought it here.

I attempted to post one here but got an error message. I was planning on reviewing at DriveThru in the morning.

I also found that disappointing. To be fair, the article was fairly well-written, and the mechanics compromise only a small part of the entire piece, so it's possible to get some good mileage out of it no matter what system you play.

To make my point clear from some of the other posts: I have no problem with 4e content in an open design magazine. In fact, I'm glad it's there, even though I have no interest in it.

My sole complaint is that it's not clearly stated that the ARTICLE is for the 4e Succubus. The 4e Succubus is a DEVIL rather than a DEMON, while they fill the same roles in the pantheon of DnD monsters the background is a completely different beast.

While well written, the background and mechanics presented are completely irrelevant to me, a distinction that could have been made with a little forethought by the publisher.

I have a service request outstanding to the DriveThru people. The file over there has a cover when I uploaded it (twice!), but something goes wrong somewhere. Actually, it's the same file as is used here on the Paizo Store, and so far no one has complained about the Paizo download.

Anyway, we'll get that sorted shortly.

EDIT: Just heard back from them: "Complex layering issue may have resulted in some customers not seeing that page". Issue fixed.

Shasazar wrote:

My second problem is that my pdf doesn't come with the cover, only the smaller version on the contents page and cover art is one of the reasons I buy magazines.

I uploaded a revised file to DriveThru to solve this issue. You'll find it in your downloads there soon.

Glad to hear you like the issue!

For a very broad application of the word 'like'.

The Ecology article was a crushing disappointment for me and I probably won't be purchasing any more KQs merely out of caution.

EDIT: I am glad the cover issue has been resolved, I look forward to checking on that in the morning.

Wolfgang Baur wrote:

Glad to hear you like the issue!

For a very broad application of the word 'like'.

The Ecology article was a crushing disappointment for me and I probably won't be purchasing any more KQs merely out of caution.

I certainly feel your pain ... but perhaps flat out not 'purchasing any more KQs merely out of caution' might be a bit excessive? After all, there is a lot of good stuff in each issue you'd be missing out on.

Maybe a better option would be to wait a few days and then post in the forums here to find out which articles are 4E? That way, you can decide on an issue by issue basis.

Just a thought ...

If someone had written the Ecology of the Succubus for Pathfinder, I would have published that one, but magazines are at the mercy of their contributors. Also, I love the article as an example of extreme story design.

As for the "excess of caution": I sort of side with @Shasazar.

If you find a 4E article that upsetting, it is absolutely safer not to buy KQ. There's often a 4E or an AGE article in there. We might run Savage Worlds someday, or 5E (who knows?). This makes it unsuitable for edition warriors or Pathfinder purists. Kobold Quarterly is not a Paizo house magazine, and it doesn't pretend to be.

Granted, he will miss out on some official Paizo content, like the Pathfinder Society articles, the stats for characters in novels, and articles written by Paizo staff. Them's the breaks.

EDIT TO ADD: I'm not being snarky. If you are easily upset, KQ is the wrong magazine for you.

EDIT: Just heard back from them: "Complex layering issue may have resulted in some customers not seeing that page". Issue fixed.

Sorry to break this to you, but perhaps less fixed than you might think. :|

If I may play devil's advocate, I think what Shasazar is saying is that the product description could be a little more clear as to what system the article was for.

For instance, above, the description says: ""The Shaman" introduces a new base class for Pathfinder RPG that gains powers and abilities by unlocking secrets about the natural and spirit worlds. "Daughters of Lilith" presents the ecology of the succubus, a lusty article indeed."

The Shaman is specified as being for Pathfinder. In the next sentence, it describes the ecology of the succubus, which could be taken by some to also be for Pathfinder. I believe what Shasazar wants is the description to point out that the succubus was for the 4E system.

At least, that is what I took away from the post.

I'd also include my normal challenge.* If you want to see article X in KQ... write it!.

*

Really, did an ECOLOGY article have so much mechanics in it that you found it unusable? I haven't read the article yet, but out of curiosity, I did take a quick look, and there's slightly over 1 page worth of mechanics in a article that is 7 pages long. If the devil vs demon distinction matters that much to you, why not just use the information for Erinyes? They're the closest devilish equivalent of a succubus.

@Dream Daemon, I sort of see what you are driving at, but it is fairly impractical. That is, I think repeating "for the Pathfinder RPG" 12 times to cover the system for each article would get sort of tiresome. There's two "for 4th Edition D&D" articles in this issue, but it's not like 4E needs to come with a warning label.

@Kthulhu, according to DriveThru, the file is correct and functional. I quote them: "customer may need to clear his cache and re-download from the My Library portion of the site."

Alternately, I'm sure Paizo wouldn't mind if you bought it from them. :)

@Dream Daemon, I sort of see what you are driving at, but it is fairly impractical. That is, I think repeating "for the Pathfinder RPG" 12 times to cover the system for each article would get sort of tiresome. There's two "for 4th Edition D&D" articles in this issue, but it's not like 4E needs to come with a warning label.

@Kthulhu, according to DriveThru, the file is correct and functional. I quote them: "customer may need to clear his cache and re-download from the My Library portion of the site."

Alternately, I'm sure Paizo wouldn't mind if you bought it from them. :)

Why not just add a simple descriptor in the above published table of contents?

Like this:
The Shaman (PF)
Daughters of Lilith (4E)
It's a Mystery (N)
Clerical Conflicts (AGE)

The reason why I stopped regularly buying KQ is precisely because I don't know how much of each issue is compatible with my game. I concur with Shasazar above that clarifying the system for each article is a good thing, especially when the topic is something (like a succubus) that is fundamentally different in different game systems.

I think the "edition warriors or Pathfinder purists" comment was uncalled for. I don’t think there is anything wrong with a consumer wanting to get the most out of their purchase and politely complaining about it when they don't. If anything, the "Glad to hear you like the issue!" comment was inflammatory since the reviewer clearly did not. I'm not sure if that was just ignorance or snark though.

I really like that KQ has a mix of articles, which is why I've been a loyal subscriber for many years now. It reminds me of the good old days when Dragon and White Wolf used to have multiple articles for different systems.

Of course, as someone who owns many different RPGs, I've always enjoyed seeing how different games work. There's some cool stuff in AGE that could be added to Pathfinder or other things. If there's an article for a system I don't use, it gives me a chance to see more of it and see if its something I'd like. For me, the value of the Ecology articles has always been in interesting story ideas. I find the 2E ecologies just as useful as a Pathfinder or 4E one.

Thanks, Wolfgang. Deleting cookies and clearing my cache didn't work, but turning on Firefox's Private Browsing feature did the trick.

Regarding Spirit Bond ... do you mean the shaman's animal spirit guide? If so, the third paragraph under the Animal Spirit Guide section says:

If an animal spirit guide is ever lost or dies, it can be replaced after a full day through a ritual involving 24 uninterrupted hours of fasting and solitary meditation in a natural environment.

So, your 6th level shaman can summon and dismiss his animal spirit guide twice per day. If it gets killed though, the shaman would need a full day of fasting and solitary meditation in a natural environment in order to bring it back.

Does that help?

Yeah, spirit guide. Sorry. No that doesn't really answer my question, though I don't think I asked the 'right' question. But you've also raised another question for me. So if the guide is slain, it is gone? It's not banished back to the spirit world like an eidolon to it's home plane? If that's the case, does the 24 hours ritual return the same guide, or is the guide an entirely new entity, even if it's the same animal?

As for my original question, what I actually want to know is: why would you ever dismiss the spirit guide? It seems to me that it functions for all logical purposes an animal companion/familiar, counterparts that generally are a constant presence with the PC. I don't have a problem with this, I just want to understand the purpose because I can't find a reason to use it, and it seemed to imply to me that there was an [omitted] fixed duration for which the guide could be summoned (say 1 min/class level, X/day).

I agree I think it would be nice if especially in the product blurb on the sites it is sold on it listed what game system each article is for. I also was under the impression the Succubus article was for Pathfinder. Not a big deal as we subscribe to the PDF and there is enough in each issue to make it worth it. But was a little disappointed when it wasn't for PF.

If I was buying them by which ones I found useful then I would also want it to be a lot more clear before buying it what was what. Such as maybe do this with the bullet point part of the blurb above on this site.

The Shaman - PF
Daughters of Lilith - 4E
It's a Mystery - all
Clerical Conflicts - PF
Divine Archetypes - PF
A Background in Magic: 4 New Magic-Users - AGE
Nine Treasures of Deep Midgard - PF
Saints of Mavros - PF
The Scriveners of Allain - 4E
White Tongue, Black Heart: Twisted Familiars - PF
The Shadow Lodge Insurgency - PF
Why No Monotheism? - all
Q&A with Bill Slavicsek
Ask the Kobold
Free City of Zobeck: Deadly Tolls and Honest Challenges
d20 Monkey and the 10'x 10' Toon by Stan!

It would only take a few minutes to add that to the blub and I think it would help consumers that buy issues by content, make up their mind if that issue is for them or not. Anyways just feedback.

Hm. Well, I am not one to fight against the tide here. I'll ask the Store Gninja for an update to the text.

Oh, and ATK is a PF item.

No worries I was just offering feedback and my list was just a quick and dirty list to give a solid example of what I meant. So I could have gotten one wrong.

Hm. Well, I am not one to fight against the tide here. I'll ask the Store Gninja for an update to the text.

Oh, and ATK is a PF item.

Gninja has been notified! Product description updated. :D

Let me just add my voice to those who are glad KQ remains the Switzerland of the edition wars. I would actually like to see this expand even further. I wonder if there is any demand for any OSR related content (like Labyrinth Lord or Adventurer Conqueror King). I know I would relish the odd "older edition" article.

In short, keep up the good work! It's a great issue.

And it doesn't hurt that they have attractive ad copy like the one opposite the title page.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Let me just add my voice to those who are glad KQ remains the Switzerland of the edition wars. I would actually like to see this expand even further. I wonder if there is any demand for any OSR related content (like Labyrinth Lord or Adventurer Conqueror King). I know I would relish the odd "older edition" article.

In short, keep up the good work! It's a great issue.

And it doesn't hurt that they have attractive ad copy like the one opposite the title page.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Query such articles and see. Lack of knowledge about these systems might be one reason they might be rejected: the editor needs to know the system to correctly able to edit the article it in its original system. But, if KQ doesn't receive article pitches or letters requesting such things, they will never happen. Additionally, there needs to be a strong enough following for the game to make it worth KQ's while. Will they gain new readership by doing such articles? Or, will their presence tick off people for being wasted space on a system "nobody uses." Don't know.

It's much safer for KQ to gauge interest in a system through a KQ Blog article. So, pitch one! I sent in a Savage Worlds one sheet for a blog piece. It made some people happy! I haven't been able to get any SW into the magazine, though.

More on the Shaman: I'm thinking of using the wolf spirit guide's stats and changing the bite to a gore attack, and giving it longstrider as the totem spell to make a stag spirit guide.

This is only relevant in that I want to go on record as someone who has an interest in stags as animal companions (or in this case a spirit guide). They're underrated.

Ok, cibet44 and Shasazar, I have given the "Pathfinder purist" comment some thought, and you know, I'm not as happy with it as I was at the time. I apologize for any slight; it was not intended as a slam. And the silver lining is that the store listing is now more detailed as well. (Thanks, Liz!)

@Foghammer, I am totally with you on stags as spirit guides. Maybe even white ones.

@Christina and Gary, I think that with the continuing decline of 4E, there's probably room to experiment more with Savage Worlds on the KQ blog.

Thanks, Liz!

Always happy to help Wolf!

Ok, cibet44 and Shasazar, I have given the "Pathfinder purist" comment some thought, and you know, I'm not as happy with it as I was at the time. I apologize for any slight; it was not intended as a slam. And the silver lining is that the store listing is now more detailed as well. (Thanks, Liz!)

Thank you for the apology.

Please re-read my previous comments, I was never angry with the content, I was angry at being misinformed.

Thank-you for taking Dark Mistress', cibet44 and my feedback to heart, clearly labeling your content was all I was asking.