Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Interesting, very interesting. ::rubs hands together in maniacal glee::
Opened up my kickstarter package last night, been sitting in the corner until I had time to really look through it. Didn't remember chipping in for the leatherette hardcover, but glad I did. Kudos for actually including some design elements and illumination on that version's cover. Usually leatherette covers just feature the name of the book (sometimes not even with a readily available design or logo), which makes them far more boring than the art cover versions. Not in this case.
The book itself is gorgeous and cleanly laid out. This book makes me want to give 5E a spin.
Congratulations to all the winners! And losers who became winners :P
Thanks again to taig for organizing this and making it a fun activity.
To Sqwonk, PM me with your publisher of choice from the list taig had in his OP. A brief list of products you own from them (if feasible) would also be helpful to reduce duplication (don't worry, I'll PM you before I send it). You can also put in a note for preferred type of book (rules, adventure, setting, etc.) because I know some people don't use certain types of supplements (ex: never using published settings or adventures, etc). I try to send you something nice along the lines of materials you prefer, but hopefully maintain some element of surprise.
Congrats, Changing Man. PM me with the product you want and I'll send it to the handle/account you PM me with.
If I don't catch your PM before I turn in for the night, I'll be roaming around these forums during the evening tomorrow.
Thanks to taig for putting this together.
Funny about that roll off. Has a double matched 20 (or any number) happened in a roll off before?
Good luck everyone!
For my own devious purposes, I hope the winner selects something I'm not aware of, so I can be reminded to pick up a copy for myself as well. The discovery of new, interesting material is half the fun.
Flame Effigy wrote:
Always play the game as if you've won. It's how the high rollers do it, for them betting 'real monies' games.
Then again, they're probably all gambling addicts. So disregard that last bit.
Up for another person taking up a day? How about natural 11* (or closest to it plus/minus roll off) for the 11th day?
Have the winner PM me and I'll gift them a PDF of their choice according to the rules Taig outlined in this thread (publishers listed or those who offered at the set limit in the OP).
Just someone who enjoys 3PP stuff immensely and tries to support them whenever I can.
*Actually have a character who has one trick and rolling 11 has made the character contribute meaningful a surprising number of times. This is for those characters.
To help make the final day (the 12th day) more epic than it is, I'll also like to add to the holiday haversack. Anyone who rolls a 2 (or second to dead last, with roll off as there can only be one) will get a random PDF gift based on their choice of publisher (as those listed in this thread). That is the winner picks the publisher, I'll gift them a PDF from that publisher's products (don't worry I'll clear it with the winner first in case of duplication in their library).
'Cause 2s, causing non-critical, less memorable failures since ... forever.
Looks like it won't tell me about casting traditions, but they sound optional. Anything to worry about or can they be ignored?
If they are the optional ones towards the end of the book, the system doesn't rely on them. The Hedgewitch does make use of magical traditions as a core ability package. Would have to check the specific terminology, don't recall the term used for each, but they sound similar. As long as you're not talking about the Hedgewitch you should be fine.
We're looking for one new player for a recently started PbP on RPoL.net set in Kobold Press's Midgard setting, around and within the city of Triolo, where the party's allegiance mostly coincides.
Using mostly standard Pathfinder rules, starting at Level 1 with abilities at 20 point buy. We're looking for a compatible 5th player to shore up the roster and help keep a steady baseline momentum. Any coverage of party roles/skills is a bonus.
Knowledge of the setting is not necessary. In fact, three of four current players are new to the setting.
Commitment is casual, at about a post a week. The current players appear to be in this for the long haul (knock on wood). And the GM as well, if I do say so myself. One of the players has been my PbP DM for three years and counting, I'll try to return the favor and not be flaky. Thus, the relaxed commitment of about one post a week, sometimes more sometimes less (I will try for the former and less of the latter).
Adventure mix will probably lean towards roleplaying/exploring/pursuing personal character goals, but I do plan to include combat and dungeon crawling. I may adapt some PF modules or KP adventures as a framework for later adventures, but we're still at the introduction stage.
Current characters are:
- Human Male Sorcerer, aspiring privateer and merchant-noble, former shipmate of minotaur barbarian
Most Pathfinder (Paizo) classes accepted (Core, Adv. Players, Ult. Magic, Adv. Class), most Kobold Press classes as well (Class Compendium). Exceptions include gunslinger, summoner, and savant, for either setting or book-keeping reasons.
Most Midgard appropriate races accepted (unless they're already present, also no Gearforged, they're reserved). Everything else on a case-by-case basis.
General preference for human (setting is human-centric after all), or other non-represented Midgard race. General preference for a class not present in party. As you can see, most of the existing characters are archetypal (in the classic sense) [::hint::]. Simpler for one to get a concept going than to to list out everything I'm accepting. I'm somewhat lenient on these things, but conserve your weird (Standard Race & Class > Unusual Race with Standard Class or Standard Race with Unusual Class > Unusual Race & Class).
Before sending a Request to Join through RPoL, please provide a brief character concept here (a few lines will do). Please mention intended character race, gender, class/archetype, and background, including (but not mandatory) potential links to existing party members or ties to elements of Triolo or Midgard (for those familiar with the setting or want to take a shot at fitting something into the locale or setting).
Triolo is part of the Seven Cities and is the capital of a mercantile maritime republic set a midst a fractured collection of six other oft feuding city-states, over a backdrop of the ambitious and treasure-hungry Mharoti (Dragon) Empire expanding from the east.
The Midgard setting has a home for most of the standard medievalesque fantasy concepts that one could find in other comparable settings like Golarion or Forgotten Realms (Northern raiders, reaver dwarves, cantonal dwarves, noble elfmarked, steppe barbarian, mystical Nurians (Egyptian-based), conflicted corsairs, Free City urbanites, etc.). If it can work in those other settings, it can probably work in Midgard. Feel free to ask questions, we can work something out.
Characters will need a reason (any reason really) to be in Triolo (given it's a major trade port and diplomatic center, shouldn't be hard) and not of ill-repute enough to draw scrutiny from the naval officers the party is currently interacting with and the party's generally good tendancies. They could be freelance mercenary types and don't have to be saintly paragons. Besides, there is flexibility on the morality scale if going by Midgard's pantheon.
Thanks for looking over my recruitment post. Hope to see one of you in the game soon.
Just to keep everyone in the loop we have signed up Fat Dragon Games, First Ones Entertainment, Lost Spheres Publishing and Purple Duck Games to work with us on this. We hope to have more names coming soon. As always thanks for your interest and support.
This is a meaty, substantive update!
It's just a few well-placed words, but it covers one of the pillars of this cross-world adventure concept: confirmed 3PP signed on. Especially ones with established settings and/or steady reliable companies who have supported PF for years.
More like this, please. Keep up the good progress, Mr. Porter.
Now this update has something solid to build on and real anticipation can build from it. Good work. Looking forward to the next update and more companies announced.
Not unexpected. Three for three on my personal choices thus far.
Also, I think the comparably more descriptive choices will get their fair share of votes.
You have to remember we are not starting this KS until February 2016. That is six months from now. If we tell you ALL our plans now, what are we going to do for the next 6 months? Slow and steady is what we are doing.
You've floated the idea of heading a cross-3PP AP for a long time. This thread does not really give an update on that.
Someone wake me when the first real announcement is made.
Had more written here but then it felt like threadcrapping on you. That's not my intent and isn't a nice thing to do.
I'll leave it off at this: You left your marketing showing.
This is also not about the faults and delays of other Kickstarter projects. Even as a KS junkie I've had the fortune of backing mostly projects that deliver within a reasonable time from their projections. In fact, the majority of PFRPG projects I've backed, from various companies, are relatively exemplary in their project management and scheduling. It's the non-PF RPG projects I've had the most problems with.
Promising stuff early on is not indicative of a failure to deliver. Plenty of the big Pathfinder KS promise a lot of stuff on their Kickstarters and have delivered in a relatively timely manner. Conversely, anyone could promise something as simple as a thank-you email and suddenly find themselves in a situation where they are extremely delayed.
There isn't a direct correlation between promises of stuff and delays. There are many other factors contributing to delays. Some of the biggest PF projects encountered printer delays. There is no guarantee even if you offer a modest booklet that you wouldn't encounter similar printing delays, those are outside of your direct control.
*Using "you" as in non-specific you.
The issue that I noticed that you have assumed a few things about this KS are not correct due a few assumption on your part.
Dearth of information does tend to encourage assumptions based on what is given, else there is no basis for discussion or thought. Why bother if you're just looking for Yes-men. Besides someone has to play the part of the mouthy naysayers to make you look more prepared than you willing to let on. Having assumption-driven randoms gives you scenery to chew.
(I expect payment in a free complementary digital copy in my email box shortly. ;)
::paraphrase:: All the nods and "we've got that covered."
I am getting the feeling that you want me to tell you EVERYTHING we are doing so you can approve or disapprove what actions we have planned. The best thing I can tell you is to want and see what we release for the AP and make your comments based on that instead of thinking what our plans are and commenting on these. Before we announced that we were planning this AP we talked it over for months about what we thought were possible thing and what we couldn't do.
I'm not looking to take it upon myself to gatekeep your project, nor would I have the right (no one does) or acumen (there are those who do have the experience running multiple major Pathfinder Kickstarters).
The thread topic, which you started, asked if posters on these forums will back a kickstarter with the limited information you deemed us worthy of reading. I gave an honest answer of what I'm looking for and commented in good faith on what little you offered. Take it how you will.
You asked what 3PP we want to see and then inquired why some of us were inclined or disinclined to see certain companies involved. Now you say you're far along and have all the stuff worked out in the background. Which is it? Why bother asking if you've got this whole shebang in the bag? Maybe put a disclaimer if you actually don't want any feedback.
Didn't realize that original topic had concluded or grew irrelevant. Update the thread title and first post in that case.
We wouldn't even announced that we were doing something like this without the logistical issues covered and talked about.
Never doubted you put tons of prior legwork into piecing together this project, but generally it seems other established 3PP present their KS plans at a much more developed stage. Or at least are willing to offer a few more solid details, enough to build interest on.
You come on here asking us if we would back Project X. We ask if it includes Y and Z. You give us a maybe, stay tuned. Then expect us to jump up and down in excitement at some generic reveal about the expected standard backer rewards. Sorry, I'll save my anticipation for when you're actually ready to present your project.
Meanwhile, other 3PP (large and small) come on here with a clearly defined concept and framework (theme, authors, contents, sample artwork, etc). My proverbial wallet gets leather strain from the speed I pulled money to throw at the screen (have to if I want to grab a limited tier).
Up to you to decide which you want to be.
Received my books in good condition - the hardcover has dented edges, but I can live with that.
Same here, but the shrinkwrap appeared unaffected in that corner. I'm assuming this was something probably early on from the printers and not an issue with shipping, but something that bypassed Q&A the printers did to clear the books. Either way, not noticeable during flipping through the book.
Going by the World-Eater theme, I would put the emphasis on the Campaign Settings involved over the idea of 3PP collaborating or backing to supporting popular 3PPs. Third party publishers have collaborated before on Kickstarters, I don't expect the KS outcome to be different in this case, even if it's nominally a bigger project because it seems each 3PP only has a small part to play in the AP.
Really the draw of this project is the promise of an Planescape or Spelljammer inspired epic romp through some of the more recognizable 3PP settings that are Pathfinder Compatible. Deliver on that concept and the project can tap into the crossover potential.
Conversely, what of 3PP who aren't known for a particular setting or even a barebones implied setting offered in adventures, there are those who focus more on offering player options and monsters over settings and adventures. Their involvement in this is not as strong a draw. While they can still contribute, they wouldn't have a "star" milieu to present for the AP (or put it another way, a World to place before the Eater).
If the non-setting'ed 3PP were to develop a setting specifically for this AP, then that doesn't hold the same draw as a 3PP with an established setting, unless the 3PP is already well established and has an existing strong demand from their fanbase to produce a setting along their style and strength.
With the existing settings, while it is nice for the PCs to visit them as a sort of sight-seeing day tour, there isn't a true cross-over unless elements start to bleed over between worlds. Traditionally in the comics inspiring this World-Eater concept, when worlds cross-over, it's a big mashup between heroes and villains. The PCs stand in for the super heroes (but it would still be nice to see some other familiar faces from the settings interact across the veil of worlds). You would need villains and monsters to cross over. The latter is easily done because most monsters are under a shared license. However, the bigger draw is villains who cross-over and then setting IP is involved. That may be more difficult to work out, both from the logistical perspective and from a writing perspective.
What I'm saying is, this is beyond the scope of Infinite Crisis (IP all controlled by one company). This is more like Amalgam Comics or a true cross-over between different companies (aka Marvel & DC). As fans, it is more gratifying to see Dr. Doom invade Thermyscira or Lex Luthor trying to obtain vibranium from Wakanda*, compared to if both companies decided to invent the "Megamaster" (insert random generic ultra villain) who is trying to invade both settings and each world goes about dealing with this new threat entirely self-contained with no input other than a handful of outworlders helping out.
*Meanwhile the Guardians of the Galaxy are delayed by Angela... wait...
Also, even if villains cross-over, the villains of a setting may have a very different style or even magic/technology level compared to the world they arrive in. That will have to be ironed out. Their motivation would also have to be determined. If Midgard's Master of Demon Mountain arrives on NeoExodus, his goal is probably to get back to Midgard as his primary motivation is the proliferation of a setting specific bloodline in Midgard (and if NeoExodus is an entirely different world void of this bloodline, what use is it to him) and his powerbase is strongly tied to Demon Mountain. There are workarounds of course, but things to consider. On the other hand, using Baba Yaga is free, but I wouldn't call Baba Yaga a Midgard villain. It would be like if DC suddenly used Thor, but not the Marvel Thor. That's cheating.
As for the organization of the Alpha, Delta, Omega adventures with the 3PP settings as side-treks, this seems to push the 3PP settings out into the fringes.
What worlds will be the focus of the Alpha/Delta/Omega adventure?
If some of them are new worlds created for this AP, then their fate and/or destruction will hold less impact.
If they are established settings, some players might not like them and what if they want to skip the Delta adventure if it's set in Midgard, but the group things Midgard is too plain vanilla for their tastes. Or maybe they hate kobolds and gearforged and Midgard is a cardinal sin.
What if NeoExodus is the Delta and is scripted to be consumed by the World-Eater, but the group are NeoExodus fans, they just failed in saving the setting they liked the most. Sure they might save all the others, but they've let their homeworld be destroyed.
Same applies for the Alpha and Omega. What if the group wants to start from a particular setting, how does the Alpha figure into it. Will there be a prequel adventure for each setting involved, etc.
Perhaps you've all these logistical issues figured out. Then that's great. If not, then please use the time to first determine how much of each setting will be intermixing into this formula. I feel the success of this project lies in striking the right balance between involving the settings. Too little and it becomes a cross-over in name only; too much and some might gloss over chapters. Create too much new stuff for the main adventures and we're back to cross-over in name only.
Not to sound negative. I really would like to see this get off the ground, but at the same time, hope it arrives in a format capable of addressing some of the unknowns mentioned above.
Fortunately (?) due to my Kickstarter habit, I've backed many 3PP projects and have an abundance of products over the last few years. Instead, my list leans towards picking up some of the Paizo stuff I've missed, the entire Occult sub-line being foremost among them. If it turns out how I think it will, I have plans for Occult magic.
As for 3PP I'm usually more inclined towards settings and at the top of my list are settings and supplements I've missed for various reasons.
Also, some of the Dreamscarred non-psionics classes. I was a fan of the 3E inspirations for those subsystems and really like the concepts as updated to Pathfinder. Is Path of War and Akashic Magic done yet? I haven't been following the projects closely and lost track of progress.
I stayed up late reading the PDF, and despite having early backer access to several chapters combined with what I *inhaled* that night I'm barely a third of the way through the book. Also, despite having work the next day, I regret nothing!
However, to answer your question, I did see extensive explanations on Leylines and their application to the titans' Great Web, with the included rules (which may have been expanded from the original set in the MCS, but I have to do a comparison to be sure, I haven't had the chance to use them myself). The designers will probably come by shortly to give you the more precise answer.
So, yes, Leyline rules included. Even has a chart of effects and backlash.
Personally I think a map of the whole planet isn't really necessary as long as representative maps of a region or adventure site are provided, along with informations for the GM to extrapolate the rest if needed.
This is true, unless there is a global scale to the adventure (that's probably an AP onto itself, even Paizo's APs are more kingdom scale), you probably don't need a world map. Especially since travel through the Legendary Planets is via gateways and not spaceships.
Even with spaceships, just like on a cruise, you only stop at the ports along the coast and make a little headway inland. Then only relevant regions need be covered.
I would actually prefer world maps like that over super-detailed, realistic maps in the style of the 3rd Edition FRCS map and the like. Nobody needs to know where exactly all the 489956 villages are, but knowing where that sand storm came from and why nobody seems to be able to locate the burial site of the nomad tribes, that is something I'd like to know :)
The 3E Forgotten Realms map only showed cities and major towns, with perhaps a handful of notable villages (typically if the village is the only notable stopping point for miles and miles, or holds some other relevance). The region books give zoomed in maps of the local area that shows more villages, and still not every podunk hamlet.
The 3E FR map was also shortened, losing something like a thousand miles north to south. Going by the proper scale (or even the revised one), the distance between cities on a caravan route is the length of some decent sized European countries.
They ain't even begun to show villages yet.
There are over 30 days left on this project with more than half the adventures funded. Thirty days is the entire duration of most normal Kickstarters.
The mid-duration lull is a good time for the team to line up their advertising, outreach, and previews (and some of this is already ready to go it seems). Then they'll treat the latter part of the time as a second launch. Legendary Planet is more a series of little projects than one big project.
With so much of the AP funded, the last days will probably mirror or exceed the first days. There is no way people would let the legendary conclusion adventures be delayed from lack of funding.
In this like a ravenous brain parasite feeding off the project energy. More, more!
With spacefaring craft, perhaps some existing waterborne combat rules can apply (but in 3Deeeee!)
At least one retro game uses monster rules for spaceships. Spaceships, as monsters.
Which reminds me: "Now I'm lost in some distant part of the universe on a ship, a living ship, full of strange alien lifeforms."
That's three stretch goals in about a 24 hour period. This was the second highest earning day for the project, second only to launch day, people are really getting the word out it seems (and probably deciding to finally jump in or pack on those add-ons).
If the last day is a repeat of today, the book is about to get a lot bigger.
Steven T. Helt wrote:
—A few other fun details: the Four Horsemen finished their Southlands responsibilities along with the other designers and the Southlands book is off to print! Also, I am designing the crunch for a cool resource for part of the Midgard setting: the Grand Duchy of Dornig.
Really looking forward to the Dornig book.
I get why we don't get too many 'martials get nice things' books but martial/caster disparity is one of the most frequent subjects in this game and sometimes I feel like its compounded by the sheer volume of material not for them. And not just more books and PDFs but fat ones with a ton of options.
I don't disagree.
Sounds like you have some ideas of where you see martial powers developing. Consider working that up into something more formally formatted and shopping it around to publishers.
The seed of Deep Magic originated from the large collection of spells built up over the years from dozens of KP sources. A tome of that size wasn't created over night, though the support it gained from the crowd-funding and crowd-sourcing expanded it beyond its original content.
One thing about prepared casters is that they can rewrite their spell lists. What if you could do that with martial techniques?
This gets into the design territory of maneuvers and there are a few companies trying their hand at that right now.
Aren't boons granted from specific situations or NPCs? Relying on extra-character sources doesn't bode well for the self-sufficiency of martial powers.
What about combat buffs based on mental stats?
Isn't one of the criticisms of the martial/magical disparity rooted in MAD, with spellcasters relying heavily on their one primary stat while martial types typically make use of several stats, yet everyone more or less has the same average stat points to spread over everything. Using mental stats for a martial type already relying heavily on their physical stats means they're pulling their focus in many directions.
These things (wards, runes, glyphs) have probably been tried many times over, but I think most of them are through the implementation of feats and that directly competes with using feats for martial skills.
There's design space untapped I just get cynical when we just pass up the idea of trying, and it seems like half the solutions is to make new martials or more magical martials rather than making combat itself more viable
I think that is the core of the problem, where the system provide little impetus to develop martial goodies (aside from the limited feat system) unlike with magic where easy drop-in & play spells makes expansion of magic a part of the natural course of things. Often times making martial types equal involves co-opting some of the tricks of magical types.
This is not to knock you for your ideas. I agree it would be nice to have a big book of martial stuff like Deep Magic, but it feels much further off due to there being fewer offerings along those lines than the plethora of spells that formed the foundation of Deep Magic.
The magic system's inherent ease of expandability made Deep Magic an intuitive project (not to mention an extensive back catalog of material across a couple of editions), which happened to translate to a popular Kickstarter. To date I believe it remains the highest funded 3PP rules supplement and amongst the highest 3PP projects overall.
Martials on the other hand have a dozen minor subsystems to jury-rig and patchwork their way towards their goal, some of which involve minor/partial spellcasting. Many 3PP and even Paizo have tried to tag on more extensive subsystems or loosened up existing class ability tress to give them the same flexibility and efficacy, all to varying degrees of success.
It's a much messier affair.
What should "Deep Combat" be?
And that's just at a glance. Apologies if I missed other 3PPs with martial material released.
With some monsters getting an art treatment as if they were from pages ripped right from medieval bestiaries and manuscripts. Backers vote which monsters get illuminated.
Perhaps some monsters get a lair write-up with location-based magical properties, as many classical monsters were tied to mythic places of power.
I believe each Bestiary the Kobolds toll over is a carefully calculated undertaking because they are art heavy projects.
Even republishing monster with existing art assets takes a certain effort, whether from new layout or perhaps an updated depiction to bring it up to parity with newer entries.
It is certainly something that should be considered, but there have been a few high profile PF bestiaries or monster oriented books from a variety of publishers (Paizo and 3PP) over the last few years, are people monster'ed out yet? Not sure. Monsters seem an evergreen topic...