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Or they can start looking for printers in countries that don't celebrate Chinese holidays.I don't have a clue as to the cost of changing from a Chinese printer to one in a different country but I do hope that, going forward, the fact that Chinese holidays can impact Paizo's shipping schedule is accounted for.
DJF
Since Paizo has been printing in China for several years now, they likely do have that factored in. It was an conjunction of other unexpected factors that triggered this one.
Also, I was about to reply to Zaister that player entitlement posts are usually followed by "I know better how you should run your business" posts, but apparently I don't have to do that any more. :P
You could care less, but Paizo's income which funds all the stuff doesn't. :)I don't really suppose that the authors did not finish their scripts months ago and I could care less for the PR at GenCon.
What exactly is the extra income generated by launching or announcing an AP at GenCon exactly ? As opposed to any other day of the year ? I'd suppose that 90%+ of the APs issues sell to regular customers by subscription.... so what exactly is to be gained ? And Paizo in their fifth year as an independent publishing business being caught cold by "chinese holidays".... sounds somewhat unlikely ?
Nevermind that earlier sales (say in March) creates earlier income,say like six weeks earlier, equaling better liquidity. Where I studied economics that trumped "fan-service" every time. YMMV...
Now for some rum, some sea-turtles and a sandy beach to wait on... I just feel sorry for those people who actually planned to run that campaign since as a "piraty one" expectations for it run/ran high
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You could care less, but Paizo's income which funds all the stuff doesn't. :)I don't really suppose that the authors did not finish their scripts months ago and I could care less for the PR at GenCon.
What exactly is the extra income generated by launching or announcing an AP at GenCon exactly ? As opposed to any other day of the year ? I'd suppose that 90%+ of the APs issues sell to regular customers by subscription.... so what exactly is to be gained ? Paizo in their fifth year as an independent publishing business being caught cold by "chinese holidays".... sounds somewhat unlikely ?
Nevermind that earlier sales (say in March) creates earlier income,say like six weeks earlier, equaling better liquidity. Where I studied economics that trumped "fan-service" every time. YMMV...
Now for some rum, some sea-turtles and a sandy beach to wait on...
It's GenCon. It's the celebration of the industry. You either have several major new entries at the show, or everybody thinks there actually *is* something very wrong with your company.
That's how every company in RPG industry works. If you're in first league, then you have at least one big hit at GenCon. If APs are your primary income (as stated several times by Paizo staff) it's a start of a new AP at GenCon floor or there's trouble.
Chief Technical Officer
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The whole Chinese New Year issue is mostly a misunderstanding, in two different ways.
1. At one point people were asking for an updated schedule, and I told them that we wouldn't have new information for a couple of weeks because our printer was closed for the holiday. And then I saw people saying elsewhere that I had said the *products* were late because of the holiday. That wasn't the reason any products were late—it's just the reason I didn't have up-to-date information on delivery dates at that time.
2. If we plan for a product to reach the printer *before* the holiday, and we don't make it in time, then that product gets delayed for another two weeks until the printer reopens. But that's not actually the printer's fault—that's our own. And it *did* happen this year. Everybody busts our butts trying to prevent that, but sometimes it's unavoidable.
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Chief Technical Officer
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...(pdf is now listed as available April 25th...) nevermind than having the actual print copy stuck in the mail to Europe for another three weeks.
The PDF release date is the anticipated retail release date. We usually begin shipping to subscribers about a week and a half before that.
What exactly is the extra income generated by launching or announcing an AP at GenCon exactly ? As opposed to any other day of the year ? I'd suppose that 90%+ of the APs issues sell to regular customers by subscription.... so what exactly is to be gained ?You could care less, but Paizo's income which funds all the stuff doesn't. :)I don't really suppose that the authors did not finish their scripts months ago and I could care less for the PR at GenCon.
Person who does not play Pathfinder sees there is a new and very cool product line. Person sees a hundred copies of Adventure Path #60, and a lot more of Adventure Path #61. They pick up #61. They read it. Wow, Pathfinder is really cool-- it's way different from 3.5e and 4e. These adventures are so much better than the stuff that WotC printed when I played 3.5e. The next day, they go and play some games. Maybe they buy the core rulebook. Whoa, paladins are really different. That's cool. They maybe pick up an Ultimate book or some miniatures. Maybe they go home and they start up a Pathfinder group. They buy the APs. Then they go back and buy the old ones to play too because they come to the forums and hear how good they are. They get the AP subscription because they want the rest of the AP they bought last month. Then they keep buying APs, reading them, even though they hate Asian fantasy, or they hate pirates, or they hate sandbox games, because Pathfinder material is so good. They buy the APG, UM, UC, UE, ARG, player companions, more miniatures.
Or maybe they don't and they just buy a copy of Adventure Path #61, go "This is crap" and make angry forum posts about how Paizo is destroying the industry and how wizards can break the game if they don't read spell descriptions.
"90% of people buying APs are subscribers" is a good thing to say but it's like you think subscribers are born out of cauldrons or made of mud or something.
...(pdf is now listed as available April 25th...) nevermind than having the actual print copy stuck in the mail to Europe for another three weeks.The PDF release date is the anticipated retail release date. We usually begin shipping to subscribers about a week and a half before that.
Wow , that makes it 4 weeks on average "warehouse to mailbox" then. To major countries and logistic hubs, say like the UK or Germany, even . Since I receive the pdf, it doesn't bother me that much, but given that intra-EU mail/packages rarely take more than 3 days (say like UK -> Denmark or Spain ---> Germany)... =(
Thanks for clarifying the stuff about the "chinese holiday", that never really rang true.
Now... for the rum !
International shipping times are very hard to predict. My December package took 4 weeks to get to Sweden. The January one arrived in 10 days. the fastest I've had yet was about six months ago, when it actually arrived faster than the minimum shipping time Paizo estimates (it took 4 days! Someone must've put it in the wrong sorting pile or something).
Im quite excited by this AP, so i signed up for the AP sub! Now I just gotta convince my group to play this! (and Pathfinder). At least in the meantime it should be good reading.
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Chief Technical Officer
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You know, shipping from the US to Europe does take a bit longer than shipping within Europe. There's this little thing called "the Atlantic Ocean" in between. I'm guessing that you, like I, have opted for the cheap international shipping option for your subscription. That means your stuff gets shipped by an actual ship rather than plane. I believe these shipping times can be pretty random, because the vessels stay in port until they are full which can delay things by another week or so if you're unlucky.
The USPS discontinued international surface mail in 2007, so everything we ship overseas does indeed go by plane... but unless you've chosen International Priority, your mail is, well, quite literally not a priority. Planes get filled with higher priority items first, so non-Priority mail can sit and wait for a while. And the same is usually true when it reaches customs at the other end.
You're spot on regarding the PDF stuff, though!
This is probably a dumb question but is there any reason why we subscribers can't get the PDF now? I primarily use the PDF anyway.
Or they can start looking for printers in countries that don't celebrate Chinese holidays.In the last year, I think we've had two products that were actually delayed by the printer, not by us... and those were both printed in the USA.
Is Paizo putting in a contingency plan so this kind of "Series of Unfortunate Events" can be avoided in the foreseeable future? :D
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Is Paizo putting in a contingency plan so this kind of "Series of Unfortunate Events" can be avoided in the foreseeable future? :D
What kind of contingency plan could there be that takes rare and unusually massive snowstorms into account? I live in a state in which such things happen much more often than they do in the Seattle area, and the only realistic contingency plan is to hope that people stay safe at home instead of risking their lives on extremely dangerous roads.
I'd rather get it late, than never! ;)
This is probably a dumb question but is there any reason why we subscribers can't get the PDF now? I primarily use the PDF anyway.See the last paragraph of Staffan's post, two posts up from yours.
Ah. I wasn't sure if that was the official position of Paizo or speculation. Thanks.
Will there be a free Player's Guide in PDF format like with most previous APs?
Will there be a free Player's Guide in PDF format like with most previous APs?
Yes. :)
Will there be a free Player's Guide in PDF format like with most previous APs?Yes. :)
I can't wait for that... You should totally release the PG early as a teaser and to drum up more sales for the AP! :)
That would be awesome! :D
Will there be a free Player's Guide in PDF format like with most previous APs?
Yes. :)
Thank you for answering. Any chance of knowing when the S+S Player's Guide will be available?
So...question...I heard during an interview that this was one module where Paladins were pretty much going to be banned because their concept doesn't fit well with the theme of the AP. What about other Good aligned type characters? From the Chaotic Good rogue to the Lawful Good Cleric...will they fit in here?
I have a group that I believe would like this, but I do have a player who stated, "Attacking innocents, robbing, stealing... not my idea of fun." I want to make sure this AP is a good fit for my entire group before I invest. Thanks!
Will there be a free Player's Guide in PDF format like with most previous APs?Yes. :)Thank you for answering. Any chance of knowing when the S+S Player's Guide will be available?
Based on past experience, around the same time as volume 1 of the AP. As I understand it, the Players' Guide is not finalized until almost the same time as they begin shipping volume 1, so it is not ready to release before then (usually).
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Creative Director
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So...question...I heard during an interview that this was one module where Paladins were pretty much going to be banned because their concept doesn't fit well with the theme of the AP. What about other Good aligned type characters? From the Chaotic Good rogue to the Lawful Good Cleric...will they fit in here?
I have a group that I believe would like this, but I do have a player who stated, "Attacking innocents, robbing, stealing... not my idea of fun." I want to make sure this AP is a good fit for my entire group before I invest. Thanks!
Skull & Shackles' plot is "The PCs are pirates who are trying to become better pirates by doing pirate things." There IS of course more to it than that... but lawful characters are going to find themselves put in tough situations very often. The good part doesn't really matter—look at any pirate movie ever made and there's great examples of good aligned pirates in there. No... it's hte LAWFUL component of an alignment that'll clash with this AP's plot.
And even then... most lawful characters will still be able to enjoy some elements of the AP... but of them all, only the Paladin has not only a strict adherence to the alignment most oppositional to piracy... but frankly, it's the TRADITION and the INERTIA that paladin codes have in most game groups that makes them poor choices for this AP. When a lawful good character does something in a game that's not particularly lawful or good, players (and often not the GM) seem often not to notice, but when the paladin does that same thing... the game derails.
In the end, whether or not a paladin is a good choice for Skull & Shackles is up to the GM. Some GMs and parties are a lot less strict about paladins. It's a question you'll have to answer for yourselves.
That said... there's a reason "Skull & Shackles" is far from the first AP we've published. It, more than any other AP, moves pretty far from the baseline assumption that the PCs are heroes doing adventures for the greater good. You should DEFINITELY communicate with the players and let them know what they're getting into with this one.
Piracy's not for everyone.
Thank you very much for the info, James. I'll pass it on to my player. Even if we don't play it, I'll be getting it...hopefully I can talk one of my other groups into it...because it really sounds like fun!
And, on that note, one of the reasons I'm a huge supporter of Paizo and their products because you guys are so great about engaging the community. Thank you!
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Creative Director
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I initially wasn't looking forward to Skull and Shackles (pirates don't do it for me), but after reading that, I'm suddenly much more interested. I love the experimental routes Paizo has been taking lately.
That said... there's a reason "Skull & Shackles" is far from the first AP we've published. It, more than any other AP, moves pretty far from the baseline assumption that the PCs are heroes doing adventures for the greater good. You...
Well... there WILL be a lot of pirates in the AP. As in dozens per adventure. Just trying to manage expectations for those who might not like pirates.
Will we see Ninja vs Pirates? Maybe Ninja-Pirates too?
Will we see Ninja vs Pirates? Maybe Ninja-Pirates too?
Monkey Ninja-Pirates!!
Will we see Ninja vs Pirates? Maybe Ninja-Pirates too?
Monkey Ninja-Pirates!!
I like Cat more.
Dinosaur pirates beat them all.
Dinosaur pirates beat them all.
Dinosaur Ninja-Pirates.
I remember that issue! ha ha!
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All I can say is that my players are looking forward to NOT playing good guys! As one of them said: "I finally get to play a person whose primary motivation isn't being a good guy!"
Also see: Why we hated Second Darkness.
"Come save us!"
"Why?"
"Because you should!"
"Meh,"
"What?!"
"It's Riddleport. I'm a pirate. My buddy is a pirate. My neighbor is a pirate. Little old lady down the street? Pirate. Who would look for heroes here? We're a town of pirates and scoundrels. Try Magnimar. I understand those guys just LOVE law and order,"
Yippie! Pirates! Been looking for a good pirate adventure since Caribbean came out almost ten years ago. Finally, we get one! I honestly hope to see more of these "Not generic fantasy" adventures. Maybe we'll finally get an African themed game? Mwangi Expanse? That would be awesome!
Actually Magnimar is really not all law and order. Magnimar was founded by people who left Korvosa because Korvosa - with its chelaxian influences - was too much about law and order for them.
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Piracy's not for everyone.
How about monks? I don't want to dip into LE if I can avoid it, but could a LN- or LG-ish monk skate by using the pirates'/ship's code as his "law?"
(Vanara drrunken-style monk from a Vudran monastery devoted to Sun Wukong and drunken/monkey style mastery, seeking patterns within the chaos of carousal and brawling. They kicked him out because he was too studious and uptight, and told him to come back once he learned the true meaning of the bar brawl. He decided the best way to get into a lot of bar fights was to become a sailor, and after a few voyages, here he is in the Shackles...)
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Chief Technical Officer
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This question may have been asked and answered, but will several volumes of the Adventure Path be consolidated into one shipment as a result of the delay? That would be awesome for the shipping costs of the Adventure Path.
And getting hit all at once would *not* be awesome for a lot of folks' budgets. We will do our best to minimize the possibility of a double shipment by compressing the gap between shipments to three weeks instead of four for a while, if we can manage it. We *may* still need to do one double shipment, though, most likely in August.
This question may have been asked and answered, but will several volumes of the Adventure Path be consolidated into one shipment as a result of the delay? That would be awesome for the shipping costs of the Adventure Path.And getting hit all at once would *not* be awesome for a lot of folks' budgets. We will do our best to minimize the possibility of a double shipment by compressing the gap between shipments to three weeks instead of four for a while, if we can manage it. We *may* still need to do one double shipment, though, most likely in August.
Much appreciated Vic! My budget took an unexpected hit starting this week and if there has to be a double shipment at some point, it's really important that I can plan in advance for this AP.
The monsters were a lot of fun to write.
Steven D. Russell
I hope for a lot of sea/aquatic monsters and some weird island dwelling critters as well.
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So...question...I heard during an interview that this was one module where Paladins were pretty much going to be banned because their concept doesn't fit well with the theme of the AP. What about other Good aligned type characters? From the Chaotic Good rogue to the Lawful Good Cleric...will they fit in here?
I have a group that I believe would like this, but I do have a player who stated, "Attacking innocents, robbing, stealing... not my idea of fun." I want to make sure this AP is a good fit for my entire group before I invest. Thanks!
Skull & Shackles' plot is "The PCs are pirates who are trying to become better pirates by doing pirate things." There IS of course more to it than that... but lawful characters are going to find themselves put in tough situations very often. The good part doesn't really matter—look at any pirate movie ever made and there's great examples of good aligned pirates in there. No... it's hte LAWFUL component of an alignment that'll clash with this AP's plot.
And even then... most lawful characters will still be able to enjoy some elements of the AP... but of them all, only the Paladin has not only a strict adherence to the alignment most oppositional to piracy... but frankly, it's the TRADITION and the INERTIA that paladin codes have in most game groups that makes them poor choices for this AP. When a lawful good character does something in a game that's not particularly lawful or good, players (and often not the GM) seem often not to notice, but when the paladin does that same thing... the game derails.
In the end, whether or not a paladin is a good choice for Skull & Shackles is up to the GM. Some GMs and parties are a lot less strict about paladins. It's a question you'll have to answer for yourselves.
That said... there's a reason "Skull & Shackles" is far from the first AP we've published. It, more than any other AP, moves pretty far from the baseline assumption that the PCs are heroes doing adventures for the greater good. You...
As a potential avenue, and obviously I havent seen the final versions of the AP, I would suggest nation backed privateer for your players who have characters that aren't as free and loose with the moral obligations. Its pretty easy to imagine an Andoran Privateer Paladin, sailing the Inner Sea and beyond policing Pirates along the way. Even infiltrating into the biggest den of pirates this side of Golarion as a Paladin is a quest of epic proportions and worthy of any plater willing to buck the story just a touch. Requires a bit of a re-work, but what AP doesnt have a bit of extra thrown in? Kingmaker was so successful due to the fact that there was so many different roads you can walk. I see no reason why you couldnt do the same with another fairly open AP such as this.
Just finished creating my character for the inevitable S&S PbP here on the boards. Woo! Any suggestions for a good character avatar? The vanara aren't exactly the most commonly-represented species in the available icons.
