Creative Director
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Thanks to tests tomorrow, I've only had a chance to skim through the PDF, but I have to say, nice job. I love finally seeing some attention being given to fiends beyond the standard demons and devils. It's nice to see how their nihilistic culture works, with the emphasis given to how they do constantly experiment and create new life, but with the ultimate goal of destroying it.
Some specific notes:
** spoiler omitted **Anyway, great job. We can only hope that there is an Abaddon adventure module in your future (or a trilogy, we haven't had one of those in a while).
I can answer one of your spoilered questions quick:
That all said, a daemon that personifies a death of being eaten alive would be pretty cool. We certainly haven't finished making new daemons with this book!
Anyone else have gotten there books yet?
Do the new Daemons have any interesting or unusal abilities?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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In (re)reading this it occurs to me that daemons are almost like 'outsider undead'. Most undead attack life from an unreasoning hatred of it. Daemons do the same for any spark of creation.
It does make me wonder 'metaphysically' if the daemons won, and devoured everything but themselves, then started devouring each other, what happens when only one is left?
In (re)reading this it occurs to me that daemons are almost like 'outsider undead'. Most undead attack life from an unreasoning hatred of it. Daemons do the same for any spark of creation.
It does make me wonder 'metaphysically' if the daemons won, and devoured everything but themselves, then started devouring each other, what happens when only one is left?
Highlander!
In (re)reading this it occurs to me that daemons are almost like 'outsider undead'. Most undead attack life from an unreasoning hatred of it. Daemons do the same for any spark of creation.
It does make me wonder 'metaphysically' if the daemons won, and devoured everything but themselves, then started devouring each other, what happens when only one is left?
Suicide.
This book is a perfect blend of Todd's typically great, flavorful writing and some absolutely gorgeous art.
Homerun!
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In (re)reading this it occurs to me that daemons are almost like 'outsider undead'. Most undead attack life from an unreasoning hatred of it. Daemons do the same for any spark of creation.
It does make me wonder 'metaphysically' if the daemons won, and devoured everything but themselves, then started devouring each other, what happens when only one is left?
Time to launch a new campaign arc.
WHY IS IT NOT TOMORROW ALREADY?!
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I can't help but wondering, and this may or may not count as a spoiler so I'm doing it in tags.
I know of at least one party that would do it just to find out what happened.
I just read the Nightstalker entry in Undead Revisited the other day, which was also written by Todd Stweart.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!!!
and if BoD3 is even half as good as that entry, this is going to be an utterly amazing book that will devour all our souls :)
I'd glad that you liked that one. I actually think I had more fun with the Devourer entry in that book, but it was a blast to work on both.
Please accept a "I love it too" vote from me for your work on the Devourer. You made them even greater than they were in 3.5's Dragon "Ecology of" article.
And while I wait with baited breath for the book to hit the stores, can someone please taunt me by letting me know what new daemons show up?
Oh yes, I also like the idea of a "daemon of eating people alive". It's the return of the Creeping Terror!
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Creative Director
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Looking back through my notes... the dhergodaemon was initially intended to be the daemon that personifies the death of being eaten alive. Not sure why it got adjusted the way it did in print, but it still also personifies being eaten as a terrible way to die.
Oh yes, I also like the idea of a "daemon of eating people alive". It's the return of the Creeping Terror!
Along with what James said, there was some back and forth discussion regarding the dhergodaemon since the original listing of daemons paired with their particular personification of death had that original intent down, which conflicted with the printed version. The end result was no retcon but something along the lines of a mutual 'that's really really cool and let's keep that in mind for the future because it's too sweet an idea to pass up for a daemon'.
:D
But currently I'm thinking there needs to be a daemon of 'death by eating too much salt' because I just got a package in the mail today full of homemade umeboshi which I'm eagerly nomming, and after two of them, that daemon is going to be coming for me. :X
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Just curious, with this book we got spells for summoning each of the Daemons. Any chance we might see a blog or better a PDF extra with such spells for the first two books in the series for Devils and Demons? :)
+1. Call of Cthulhu does this. Each outsider is summoned with its own distinct spell, rather than a single spell that automatically increases with you. Means you have to learn to summon each creature. Way more flavorful.
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Creative Director
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Just curious, with this book we got spells for summoning each of the Daemons. Any chance we might see a blog or better a PDF extra with such spells for the first two books in the series for Devils and Demons? :)
No PDF extra. But you can expect to see spells like that show up now and then in other products. There's a couple of devil summoning spells like this in the Rival Guide, for example.
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Creative Director
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Just curious, with this book we got spells for summoning each of the Daemons. Any chance we might see a blog or better a PDF extra with such spells for the first two books in the series for Devils and Demons? :)+1. Call of Cthulhu does this. Each outsider is summoned with its own distinct spell, rather than a single spell that automatically increases with you. Means you have to learn to summon each creature. Way more flavorful.
While I do agree that it's more flavorful... it also takes up a LOT more room. For a game like CoC, where summoning monsters is a big part of the magic system, no big deal. For Pathfinder, though... it's a bit trickier.
I can't help but wondering, and this may or may not count as a spoiler so I'm doing it in tags.
** spoiler omitted **
I know of at least one party that would do it just to find out what happened.
Good question. Perhaps that's why the Four created domains for Zyphus and Urgathoa and invited them unsolicited to Abaddon? Or perhaps they needed a deific presence on their plane like the nuclear deterrant owned by a small country surrounded by others who despise it. Perhaps it was an attempt to regain a nebulous but apocalyptic deterrant that prior to
As to what would happen? Maybe it would cause a sort of daemonic apotheothis and the Eye would open and all unholy hell would break loose. Or perhaps it would simply birth a fatted calf for the Four to feast upon one final time.
Good question (and best perhaps left to each DM to answer). :D
Awe-some! But does it make me a bad person if I'm already wondering what Book of the Damned 4 will be about?
So now that the book has been out for a little while, I have a few questions to ask for those folks who've already gotten their copy, or have read through the pdf while it's in the mail. I've been wanting to write a book like this for oh, forever, and so suffice to say I'm absolutely desperate for feedback: positive, negative, or otherwise.
So a few questions:
1) Among the new daemons in the book, which are you favorite and why?
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
3) What more regarding daemons/Abaddon do you want to know more about?
4) What part of the book in general did you like the most, and likewise what part of the book did you not care for (and why especially for the last one)?
Feedback here on the boards or if you want to roast me over the coals and not do it in public for something or another, you can email me any comments are fiend@laughingfiend.net
:D
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I've been a longtime fan of your work Todd (some of your Planscape writings still give me goosebumps) and I greatly enjoyed the material you added to Daemons with this product.
If I had a complain it would be that I wish it had twice the number of pages filled with NE fiend 'goodness'. (I realize that's not possible, so no real complains then.)
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
Well Charon has seniority in real wolrd myth as well as rpg pedigree so my vote will always be slanted towards The Oarsman.
I have more coments later on but have a bit of work to do now, I'll keep an eye on the thread as well as future products you pen dear laughing fiend.
So now that the book has been out for a little while, I have a few questions to ask for those folks who've already gotten their copy, or have read through the pdf while it's in the mail. I've been wanting to write a book like this for oh, forever, and so suffice to say I'm absolutely desperate for feedback: positive, negative, or otherwise.
So a few questions:
1) Among the new daemons in the book, which are you favorite and why?
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
3) What more regarding daemons/Abaddon do you want to know more about?
4) What part of the book in general did you like the most, and likewise what part of the book did you not care for (and why especially for the last one)?
Feedback here on the boards or if you want to roast me over the coals and not do it in public for something or another, you can email me any comments are fiend@laughingfiend.net
:D
1): The temerdaemon followed by the obcisidaemon. The temerdaemon because I'm fond of the idea of major catastrophes being engineered by some horrible evil. That and I really like the look and description of them. The Obcisidaemon because they'd make an epic (not in game terms but in story terms) foe for the PC's to deal with at the end of a campaign - not the mastermind behind the evil, but the actual evil the mastermind is plotting. I love that idea.
2) Charon, followed by Szuriel. Charon because he's patient. He has all the time in the world to collect the souls, and the fact he disguises himself among his boatman just thrills me with the story possibilities. Szuriel because of how contrary she is. She appears to be an epic and angelic being, but is just as hideous as the other horsemen. I really wish there were a variety of daemon that had more angelic features to play with that paradigm shift of don't judge a book by it's cover.
3) What more don't I want to know about? I'd love more detail on the plane itself. More details on the separate domains of each of the horsemen as well. Specifically adventure sites, not many but one or two with some significant detail would be awesome from each area. Something akin to "Cities of Galarion" or "Dungeons of Golarion" but for separate locales in Abbadon would be a firm purchase from me even if I didn't have the subscription (I'd love to see the same treatment for the Abyss, The Hells, and perhaps one or two others.) I As far as daemon's.... well nothing specific, just more and more and more would make me happy.
4)I love the excerpts from The Book of the Damned the most. It just oozes with flavor and just absolutely fascinating to read (it's my favorite part of all three volumes). My least favorite part, strangely is probably the prestige class. It's pretty minor though, I'm just not interested in a lot of rules info in a book like this. (I'm much more flavor oriented than I am rules oriented).
Anyway, great series! Really love your stuff and can't to see what's next.
Szuriel because of how contrary she is. She appears to be an epic and angelic being, but is just as hideous as the other horsemen.
I like her too, and I was pretty happy with the art. The original mental image I had of her was something very much like a winged, corrupted Rodina Mat Zovyot, pose and all but with the bleeding eyes and pirhana grin.
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So now that the book has been out for a little while, I have a few questions to ask for those folks who've already gotten their copy, or have read through the pdf while it's in the mail. I've been wanting to write a book like this for oh, forever, and so suffice to say I'm absolutely desperate for feedback: positive, negative, or otherwise.
So a few questions:
1) Among the new daemons in the book, which are you favorite and why?
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
3) What more regarding daemons/Abaddon do you want to know more about?
4) What part of the book in general did you like the most, and likewise what part of the book did you not care for (and why especially for the last one)?
Feedback here on the boards or if you want to roast me over the coals and not do it in public for something or another, you can email me any comments are fiend@laughingfiend.net
:D
1)
Erodaemon - death by heartbreak and I know I'm home here with oh so many ways to use this monster.
Temerdaemon - accidental death, again something I did not expect and I am delighted to see.
2)
I'm still too stunned by the Oinodaemon story to even try to think about the others.
3)
Can the Fifth Horseman be worshipped? Does it grant spells/domains? Are mortals aware of his existence?
4)
New daemons float my boat, because there were so few of them to begin with. I'm not sure if the "About Daemons" part was needed, such info could be incorporated into daemon descriptions, but I'm fine as it is.
So now that the book has been out for a little while, I have a few questions to ask for those folks who've already gotten their copy, or have read through the pdf while it's in the mail. I've been wanting to write a book like this for oh, forever, and so suffice to say I'm absolutely desperate for feedback: positive, negative, or otherwise.
So a few questions:
1) Among the new daemons in the book, which are you favorite and why?
Phasmadaemons. I like having a daemon that is a manifestation of absolute fear to throw at my players. Plus, I tend to be a fan of the less humanoid/more alien types of fiends.
The obcisidaemon as well, because it's basically the manifestation of the worst atrocities mortals can perform.
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
Apollyon. I like the irony of developing ravenous life (plagues that reproduce so fast and so aggressively that they kill off their own food supply) to eliminate life.
3) What more regarding daemons/Abaddon do you want to know more about?
I'd like to learn about more of the Harbingers. There's that big list of Harbingers on the cover, but only a few were covered. Also, how do they become Harbingers? Are they sponsored by a Horseman? Do they spontaneously become unique daemons when they devour enough souls (like one particular Harbinger did)?
As well, I would like to know a lot more about Abaddon. A gazetteer's worth at least. Everything from the details on multiple regions to encounter tables for different domains in Abaddon.
4) What part of the book in general did you like the most, and likewise what part of the book did you not care for (and why especially for the last one)?
Favorite part: All the new daemons! I also liked finally having the whole, "we despise all life, but are also prolific creators," paradox discussed (but see least favorite).
Least favorite part: The page limit. There were several points in the book where it felt that there was much more that have been discussed, but couldn't because of the word count. I'm not talking about the deliberately vague parts, like the stories about the First, but things like the daemonic drive to destroy but also create, which probably could have had an entire chapter dedicated to it if there were infinite space.
Szuriel because of how contrary she is. She appears to be an epic and angelic being, but is just as hideous as the other horsemen.I like her too, and I was pretty happy with the art. The original mental image I had of her was something very much like a winged, corrupted Rodina Mat Zovyot, pose and all but with the bleeding eyes and pirhana grin.
I was not familiar with that statue, (I'm know more about ancient Roman and Celtic history than I do about Russian battles in WWII).
It's amazing! I have this horrifying image in my mind of Szuriel, as large as that statue, leading a vanguard of daemons to destroy a world. Absolutely horrifying (and AWESOME). I wish I had a knack for the visual arts.
Can the Fifth Horseman be worshipped? Does it grant spells/domains? Are mortals aware of his existence?
4)
New daemons float my boat, because there were so few of them to begin with. I'm not sure if the "About Daemons" part was needed, such info could be incorporated into daemon descriptions, but I'm fine as it is.
I would say if you could find out about it yes it can, however I'd conditionally hesitate to say that it can grant spells (normally it could, but the effects of what the Four did to it preclude it doing so now). It's an odd situation where probably any spells a worshipper gained would be coming not from the Oinodaemon, but routed through one of the Four, and ultimately leaving them with a veto on certain spells like miracle.
If you do worship the 5th however, you probably gain the notice of the Four and very likely you'll end up devoured alive in public by invisible beasts, or eaten by your own shadow, or reduced to ashes and scattered in a sudden gust of wind. They suppress that knowledge and a whole era of their own history, and they're worried about the consequences of the 5th gaining worship and what that might do.
The Four have seized the throne and never intend to give it up and go back to being servitors, and they jealously guard their position. Yet it's a constant worry because even thrown down and partially devoured, the 5th is still there exuding a subtle current like a black home influences the rotation of the stars in its surroundings. The daemons act upon it without necessarily knowing what it is or that it's even there. For instance the whole bit about "near religious attitude" daemons have towards copies of 'The Withered Footsteps' (multiple ways to read into that).
As for the 'About Daemons' part, that was part of the book's outline and it followed a similar pattern as the previous Book of the Damned.
Phasmadaemons. I like having a daemon that is a manifestation of absolute fear to throw at my players. Plus, I tend to be a fan of the less humanoid/more alien types of fiends.
That sucker actually came out of a nightmare I had. Never mix nyquil and scotch, no matter how bad your cold might happen to be at the time.
I'd like to learn about more of the Harbingers. There's that big list of Harbingers on the cover, but only a few were covered. Also, how do they become Harbingers? Are they sponsored by a Horseman? Do they spontaneously become unique daemons when they devour enough souls (like one particular Harbinger did)?As well, I would like to know a lot more about Abaddon. A gazetteer's worth at least. Everything from the details on multiple regions to encounter tables for different domains in Abaddon.
The Harbingers had two or three members that got cut, with the table of them at the back a consolation prize. The process I suspect isn't a single method. Some are promoted by a Horseman who has to balance off getting a servitor and elevating a fiend to become a potential rival in the next ten thousand years or so. Others rise to that level of power and announce their status and stake a territorial claim. If they can hold it, they might be recognized if they play infernal politics correctly. It's a bizarre mixture of nepotism, cronyism, and existential self-realization.
And that 'one particular Harbinger' is a wierd case if we're thinking of the same one. He was a former Horseman stripped of power and demoted to a pretty much mindless astradaemon (good way to think of them is as a punishment caste. But that inner spark of power wasn't extinguished but flickered back to dim flame after consuming enough souls upon the Astral.
As for the regions of Abaddon and more details thereof, here was a lot that didn't make it into the final manuscript due to space issues, and one or two cuts from there during editing, so there's a lot of stuff that might pop up again in another form if I get the chance to reexamine the area. :)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So a few questions:
1) Among the new daemons in the book, which are you favorite and why?
The Sangudaemon looks the most awesome to me, and Contagious Gore is awesome. Though I just noticed it requires a "DC Fortitude save" something wrong with that phrase.
The Termerdaemon is evil (duh). Especially since, if I'm reading it right, giving it a few Pugwampi followers wouldn't change the CR. :-)
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
Trelmarxian, that he's the daemon of famine, and yet seems to be consumed by someone he ate, is just delicious.
3) What more regarding daemons/Abaddon do you want to know more about?
Why they were frakking around in the Abyss, what their 'end times' are (discussed by you upthread) More on the Urderfhan.
4) What part of the book in general did you like the most, and likewise what part of the book did you not care for (and why especially for the last one)?
Book was too short, but hten that holds true for all three. And for all three that damned script font is hard to read. (We need a cryptodaemon, death from madness of trying to figure out illegible writing.)
So now that the book has been out for a little while, I have a few questions to ask for those folks who've already gotten their copy, or have read through the pdf while it's in the mail. I've been wanting to write a book like this for oh, forever, and so suffice to say I'm absolutely desperate for feedback: positive, negative, or otherwise.
So a few questions:
1) Among the new daemons in the book, which are you favorite and why?
2) Which of the Horsemen/Archdaemons are your favorite, and why?
3) What more regarding daemons/Abaddon do you want to know more about?
4) What part of the book in general did you like the most, and likewise what part of the book did you not care for (and why especially for the last one)?
Feedback here on the boards or if you want to roast me over the coals and not do it in public for something or another, you can email me any comments are fiend@laughingfiend.net
:D
1) The Erudaemon, simply because "evil seducer" isn't something I would have associated with daemons given their MO in Golarion/Pathfinder. But now that it's been done, I'm left wondering why I didn't see the logic of it before.
2) Trelmarixian, because (a) I like wild canids, even when they're horrors from Abaddon, (b) he has such a well-thought out backstory, and (c) his sphere of influence is so very broad considering that he's primarily about Famine; so he rules cancers and such as well? But doesn't that lead to problems with Apollyon?
As for archdaemons, I'll have to go with Vorasha, both because I've seen the art of her elsewhere and because she sounds so very creepy. Venomous animals creep me out, and that's what she does.
3) Hoo boy. Right now I can't think of much beyond more information on how the daemons interact with the NE deities and the divs.
4) The chapter on how mortals interact with daemons is very good. I liked the information on daemonic cults, especially how they often hide themselves behind facades of "freeing the weary and wounded from their terrible lives", as well as "Why would anyone even remotely sane worship something that wants to destroy everyone and everything forever?"
And the Souldrinker PrC is great. Not to mention the new "Summon Daemon" spells.
The bad? As always, the book could have been longer for my money -- but more seriously, the short two-page sections at the start of each chapter were rather hard to read. This is true of the first two Books of the Damned as well. For some reason the combination of the print and the color of the page make the words hard to discern. Mind, at the same time they're some of the most flavorful sections of the various books!
That's about all I have right now. I hope we se more from Mister Stewart, on fiends and other topics.
2) Trelmarixian, because (a) I like wild canids, even when they're horrors from Abaddon, (b) he has such a well-thought out backstory, and (c) his sphere of influence is so very broad considering that he's primarily about Famine; so he rules cancers and such as well? But doesn't that lead to problems with Apollyon?
I'd never have guessed by the avatar :) As for Trelmarixian, I'd written a pretty extensive backstory (a story of his death while still mortal) for him like a year and a half ago, mostly just me doing it because it was fun, and hey a year later I got to use bits of it in a book. Maybe we'll see more of it someday?
And yeah, he's butting heads with Apollyon something serious. But so was his predecessor Lyutheria the Parasite Queen (with things like fleas, ticks, malarial flukes, worms, etc that spread disease).
As for archdaemons, I'll have to go with Vorasha, both because I've seen the art of her elsewhere and because she sounds so very creepy. Venomous animals creep me out, and that's what she does.
Yeah, she's based on a critter from my home game, and I got art of her for that game. The Golarion version is pretty similar in appearance as the medusa-canid thing, but semi-slimy meladaemon rather than the original arcanaloth with birth defects.
You wouldn't have liked the gaboon viper that was in my house the other week (living with a herpatologist...) :)
3) Hoo boy. Right now I can't think of much beyond more information on how the daemons interact with the NE deities and the divs.
I really really wanted to explore the daemon interactions with the divs, but space wouldn't allow it except for a few mentions of one harbinger eating them, and perhaps another reference of competition between one div type and one daemon type (don't recall if that made it into the book). But since working with daemons tends to be like handling radioactive waste, the interaction with NE deities is a fun topic to explore, because it's probably incredibly nuanced and restricted even among clerics of nominal allies like Urgathoa.
This book is amazing
This book is amazing
Glad you like it! We love reviews, by the way. :D
This book is amazingGlad you like it! We love reviews, by the way. :D
So do I! Please? :D
I've been DMing a Way of The Wicked Campaign and allowing a few rules from here. I have a few qustions about the Soul Trade, because at the moment my party are drawing out the souls of pretty much everyone/everything they kill, and the rules are a little vague on a couple of points.
1) Outsiders. Can their souls be harvested?
2) What would you class as "Unique"?
3) Is there some mechanic I can use to calculate the value of souls?
I really, really, really, really hope to see the Sangudaemon and the Phasmadaemon in bestiary 5! :-p
The souldrinker's energy drain ability says it takes a touch attack to use. Would that be melee or ranged?
Melee. 99% of all energy drain abilities (That aren't the energy drain spell) are melee touch attacks.
I just got this in the mail today, flip open the cover and Sheperd of Fire by Avenged Sevenfold comes on the radio. Should I be worried?
Lol It's a great book btw, review incoming.
Should I be worried?
No. Please step over here for further ... inquiry. >:)
Is there any information about urdefhan in this book?
Thanks!
Ruyan.