Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Rival Guide (PFRPG)

Ashanderai wrote:

"Please, Unca' Neil, tell me moooooorrre!"

Well...let's just say that many people have noticed certain horror icons showing up in Carrion Crown so far...

** spoiler omitted **
Another teasing two cents,
--Neil

And I thought you did a great job.:)

I wonder if he means Adgrif Yoderbie?

They are a nice bunch, but he stands out as the most iconic, especially the art.

I wonder if he means Adgrif Yoderbie?

We have a winner! :-)

Ashanderai wrote:

"Please, Unca' Neil, tell me moooooorrre!"

Well...let's just say that many people have noticed certain horror icons showing up in Carrion Crown so far...

** spoiler omitted **
Another teasing two cents,
--Neil

I really need to go back and watch the 1933 movie of that particular iconic critter. :)

Also, I'm really happy that folks are getting this one in the mail/inboxes now. I'm also rapidly coming to the conclusion that I have a thing for all things small, evil, and twistedly adorable.

And kudos to Paizo for letting me get away with some decidedly mature themes in my entry in the book, yet again. :)

Also, I'm really happy that folks are getting this one in the mail/inboxes now. I'm also rapidly coming to the conclusion that I have a thing for all things small, evil, and twistedly adorable.

And kudos to Paizo for letting me get away with some decidedly mature themes in my entry in the book, yet again. :)

This is one that will definitely see some use in my campaign, especially those high-end ones - generating NPCs is still a very very high maintenance activity at high levels.

Browsed through the PDF today, and boy, this book looks great as far as first impressions go. Can't wait to get my hands on the dead tree version for some, ahem ... friendly competition for my PCs.

That being said, please listen, ye Paizo gods: Pretty please (with sugar on top) ease up on the stupid NPC names containing double Xs, Ys and Zs? Yes, Mr Telaxxis, I'm looking at you. Pity that you actually seem a decent guy, as far as Chelaxians go - I refuse to pronounce a name that sounds like it escaped from Blizzard's dragon random name generator ('Hey, I've got it - how does YYxxxzzyyyzxxxx sound? No? Ah, another one for the reject bin. *sigh*').

Just got my PDF and this is the first one I started looking at.

Can we get a list of which author contributed which group? They all look awesome, but I am curious.

I am pleased to have 4 groups that will be worthy foes for my level 16 party. Even better than I expected! I renamed the one file per chapter set to have CR## Group Name for easy sorting.

Can we get a list of which author contributed which group? They all look awesome, but I am curious.

I can tell you my sole contribution was the aforementioned Night Harrows. I've lost track of who did which of the other groups. And I believe a couple of authors doubled up and did a couple of them.

I am pleased to have 4 groups that will be worthy foes for my level 16 party. Even better than I expected! I renamed the one file per chapter set to have CR## Group Name for easy sorting.

I contributed the Marrow Reavers.

I don't remember all the other assignments, but I'll let them pop in and claim credit as they want. :)

I think I like this book. A lot.

Can we get a list of which author contributed which group?

I did the Poisoned Lodge.

The Dust Coven was my group!

I wrote this for my review, but people may want to see it here:
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I did the Kodar Kneecappers (the one low-level group) and the Hands of Slaughter.

Adding to Deinol's spoilered chart what I think is the right author:

Eagerly awaiting the entirety of this book, but I have to admit that those goodish groups have me mighty curious. :)

Hm, I must admit after browsing through the PDF, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do with this book.

Hm, I must admit after browsing through the PDF, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do with this book.

Same thing you'd do with a Bestiary. Only with NPCs instead of monsters.

Zaister wrote:

Hm, I must admit after browsing through the PDF, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do with this book.

Same thing you'd do with a Bestiary. Only with NPCs instead of monsters.

Well, creatures from the Bestiaries pop up in Pathfinder adventures all the time, these guys, more probably not.

I don't mind interesting NPCs, not at all. I often get ideas for new characters I find interesting myself, and since I rarely get to use one of these ideas as a PC (these tend to be long-lived usually in the campaign I play in), I can only realize them as NPCs in my own campaign, and even then it's not that easy fitting them into a finished adventure like an Adventure Path, and the same thing applies to the characters in this book. Fitting in one character is often difficult enough, let alone a whole adventuring party.

Well, creatures from the Bestiaries pop up in Pathfinder adventures all the time, these guys, more probably not.

Actually, one of the design goals given to us as authors on this product involved taking a group of NPCs (a rival adventuring party) and crafting one for each of the major APs. Thus, the Night Harrows (the one I worked on) are specifically meant to enhance the Carrion Crown AP. I believe Brandon's group is oriented for Second Darkness. Todd had the Council of Thieves group (I think?). And so on. The Rival Guide itself doesn't specifically call it out. But, you should be able to find a group of NPCs to introduce as "rivals" to your PCs and have them be a recurring cast of characters for them to encounter over the course of an AP's campaign.

My two cents,
--Neil

Zaister wrote:

Well, creatures from the Bestiaries pop up in Pathfinder adventures all the time, these guys, more probably not.

Actually, one of the design goals given to us as authors on this product involved taking a group of NPCs (a rival adventuring party) and crafting one for each of the major APs. Thus, the Night Harrows (the one I worked on) are specifically meant to enhance the Carrion Crown AP. I believe Brandon's group is oriented for Second Darkness. Todd had the Council of Thieves group (I think?). And so on. The Rival Guide itself doesn't specifically call it out. But, you should be able to find a group of NPCs to introduce as "rivals" to your PCs and have them be a recurring cast of characters for them to encounter over the course of an AP's campaign.

My two cents,
--Neil

Wow. And I thought the book was cool just as it was.

Which group is written with Rise of the Runelords in mind?

Zaister wrote:

Todd had the Council of Thieves group (I think?).

Legacy of Fire :)

Which group is written with Rise of the Runelords in mind?

I'm not certain. At the time we worked on the Rival Guide there were more adventuring groups to do than APs (I think). So, there were a handful that were done more as generic rivals that could work for any campaign. And, obviously, the idea was to include a really high-level group (four CR 20 NPCs) and something for lower-level groups (four CR 3 NPCs). I thought it was a really great product idea. Working on the Rival Guide is probably one of my favorite things. A lot of that stems from the fact that my strongsuit as a designer lies in compelling character concepts...or, at least, I tell myself that as often as I can. ;-)

--Neil

P.S. If I get a chance to check my notes later this evening, I may be able to find the author who was tasked with the RotR group. Or, Sean may be able to poke his head in here and answer that one.

I love this book, and want to give a thank you to all who were involved!

I would love more of these types of books and I hope we can have a Rival Guide 2.0 in the future!

I just want to say that knowing the rival groups can be thrown back to different APs makes me remember fondly the Dungeon APs (Savage tide?) where the party were the 'second string' adventuring party who eventually finds the remains of the 'first string' :-)

I don't mind interesting NPCs, not at all. I often get ideas for new characters I find interesting myself, and since I rarely get to use one of these ideas as a PC (these tend to be long-lived usually in the campaign I play in), I can only realize them as NPCs in my own campaign, and even then it's not that easy fitting them into a finished adventure like an Adventure Path, and the same thing applies to the characters in this book. Fitting in one character is often difficult enough, let alone a whole adventuring party.

There's no point in your AP where another group might want to snag the treasure first?

Yes, they aren't scripted into the APs, but any adventure where they are exploring old ruins for treasure these groups could be used as encounters. Or if the PCs are getting well known they could be hired by their enemies to harass or attack them.

In a full Kingmaker campaign I can easily see using all of the groups at one point or another to add spice to the campaign.

Actually, one of the design goals given to us as authors on this product involved taking a group of NPCs (a rival adventuring party) and crafting one for each of the major APs. Thus, the Night Harrows (the one I worked on) are specifically meant to enhance the Carrion Crown AP. I believe Brandon's group is oriented for Second Darkness. Todd had the Council of Thieves group (I think?). And so on. The Rival Guide itself doesn't specifically call it out. But, you should be able to find a group of NPCs to introduce as "rivals" to your PCs and have them be a recurring cast of characters for them to encounter over the course of an AP's campaign.

My two cents,
--Neil

Is there one for the Kingmaker AP?

Which group is written with Rise of the Runelords in mind?

The Kodar Kneecappers are Varisian, and they could be a good mix-in as part of the transition from Skinsaw to Hook Mountain (since they are focused on hunting giants of every type - they could be investigating the fall of the Black Arrows as well as the party).

According to my notes, we have:

Rise of the Runelords: Kodar Kneecappers
Second Darkness: Dust Coven
Legacy of Fire: Marrow Reavers
Council of Thieves: Queen's Hand
Kingmaker: Argent Blades
Serpent's Skull: Hands of Slaughter
Carrion Crown: Night Harrows

The rest were not AP specific, with Poisoned Lodge being designed for Absalom, The Children of Steel designed as a "classic" level 20 party, and the Hellblood Corsiars (who SCORED on art) for the Sodden Lands/Shackles.

Sound about right?

I did the Kodar Kneecappers (the one low-level group) and the Hands of Slaughter.

Jason, a question on Kodar group:

I read this whole thing cover-to-cover last night, and I love it. I have to say that I enjoyed all ten of these "rivals."

I do have a question about the crunch in the Coven of Dust section. Specifically, the pricing of the dessicating dust and fire foot powder.

The DD costs 1,500 gp, while the FFP costs 1,000 gp. Both items inflict 3rd-level spells on their targets and function in the same way, yet the save DC for the DD is 19, while the FFP's is 14. Additionally, the DD can affect an unlimited number of creatures, while the FFP is expended after affecting only one.

This seems a bit wonky to me. Shouldn't the FFP be way less expensive?

I read this whole thing cover-to-cover last night, and I love it. I have to say that I enjoyed all ten of these "rivals."

I do have a question about the crunch in the Coven of Dust section. Specifically, the pricing of the dessicating dust and fire foot powder.

The DD costs 1,500 gp, while the FFP costs 1,000 gp. Both items inflict 3rd-level spells on their targets and function in the same way, yet the save DC for the DD is 19, while the FFP's is 14. Additionally, the DD can affect an unlimited number of creatures, while the FFP is expended after affecting only one.

This seems a bit wonky to me. Shouldn't the FFP be way less expensive?

Note that once you're affected by firefoot powder, you keep taking the damage even after you leave the area. With desiccating dust, you take more and it's a harder save... but it's done with immediately. Firefoot powder isn't as bad news in that regard, but it DOES make spellcasting harder since you're suffering continual damage. In fact, it's the fact that firefoot powder continues to do damage for five rounds that boosts its cost more than the rest of it.

Jason Nelson wrote:

I did the Kodar Kneecappers (the one low-level group) and the Hands of Slaughter.

Jason, a question on Kodar group:** spoiler omitted **

That would probably be me spacing out and forgetting clerics don't get heavy armor prof any more. Change it to breastplate or chain mail and bingo bango done.

Just got it with UM. Really digging the format, and the art is solid throughout. That many full body illustrations in one Chronicles book is gonna spoil me.

Only had time to glance over it so far, but I'm predicting the wizard guy in the Kodar Kneecappers is going to be /tg/'s hero. ;)

I would have guessed that they were the Curse of the Crimson Throne tailored group, but yeah, they do fit into Runelords perfectly.

I have a question about the NPCs. Were they build with a 15 or 20 point buy? Or did you use the standard NPC stats from the Core Rule Book?

I have skimmed the PDF. I really like the flavor and backstory for the groups. It makes them more then a simple stat block. I thought this guide was better than the NPC Guide.

I have a question about the NPCs. Were they build with a 15 or 20 point buy? Or did you use the standard NPC stats from the Core Rule Book?

The elite array...15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. They are NPCs with class levels, after all. So, the same character build rules for NPCs we'd use in an adventure.

I dig this book. It'll get put to good use when I eventually pathfinderize the WH40K RPG Rogue Trader - Lure of the Expanse adventure. :)

I'm still not sure how this can profit my adventure path campaign. For Serpent's Skull there are already enough rival expeditions in play, shove in in another group that basically has nothing to do with the whole thing, except they want to genocide elves for no particular reason except that they are evil, well I don't see how that fits. Also putting in an evil group like that, that's not rivals (unless the PCs are in the buisenss of slaughtering elves themselves), that's just one more encounter, probably out of the blue, nothing more, I think.

Not sure about the groups designed to fit Kingmaker as well. Hm. Might be, I just don't get this book.

I'm still not sure how this can profit my adventure path campaign. For Serpent's Skull there are already enough rival expeditions in play, shove in in another group that basically has nothing to do with the whole thing, except they want to genocide elves for no particular reason except that they are evil, well I don't see how that fits. Also putting in an evil group like that, that's not rivals (unless the PCs are in the buisenss of slaughtering elves themselves), that's just one more encounter, probably out of the blue, nothing more, I think.

Not sure about the groups designed to fit Kingmaker as well. Hm. Might be, I just don't get this book.

This might help some folks out there—the original concept for "Rival Guide" came from our shared frustration at Paizo in old-tyme wandering monster tables that included entries for "Rival Adventuring Party." Unlike 1d6 bugbears or 1d3 chimeras, a Rival Adventuring Party isn't something you can just flip to a few pages in a book and be ready to go.

Until now. File off names for the NPCs in any group and presto—rival adventuring party for numerous different CRs.

(The concept of using several Adventure Paths as "themes" for the book was not really ever intended to be made public, since it was merely a handy way in the book's outline form for us to summarize a party's basic role. That said... it certainly doesn't hurt for folks to know about this element... but it's very much a behind-the-scenes bit of lore.)

There's nothing as too many high level statblocks.

(The concept of using several Adventure Paths as "themes" for the book was not really ever intended to be made public, since it was merely a handy way in the book's outline form for us to summarize a party's basic role. That said... it certainly doesn't hurt for folks to know about this element... but it's very much a behind-the-scenes bit of lore.)

Oops. My apologies. I didn't realize that was verboten. I actually thought it was a pretty neat selling point...and somewhat surprised it didn't get mentioned.

I will be getting this one in the mail soon with my Ultimate magic and the next Carrion crown AP.

James Jacobs wrote:

(The concept of using several Adventure Paths as "themes" for the book was not really ever intended to be made public, since it was merely a handy way in the book's outline form for us to summarize a party's basic role. That said... it certainly doesn't hurt for folks to know about this element... but it's very much a behind-the-scenes bit of lore.)

Oops. My apologies. I didn't realize that was verboten. I actually thought it was a pretty neat selling point...and somewhat surprised it didn't get mentioned.

No worries. Like I said, it's a neat peek behind the scenes is all.

James Jacobs wrote:

(The concept of using several Adventure Paths as "themes" for the book was not really ever intended to be made public, since it was merely a handy way in the book's outline form for us to summarize a party's basic role. That said... it certainly doesn't hurt for folks to know about this element... but it's very much a behind-the-scenes bit of lore.)

Oops. My apologies. I didn't realize that was verboten. I actually thought it was a pretty neat selling point...and somewhat surprised it didn't get mentioned.

It is a neat selling point. I was on the fence about getting this book, but knowing the groups are at least partly designed for specific APs makes me want it right away :)

Between this, the older NPC guide, all the NPCs in the APs I have, and the stats in the back of the GMG I hope to never need to worry about creating NPCs from scratch again.

Exactly! Here's some interesting trivia. Between sourcebooks (like the GMG and these NPC books), Pathfinder Modules, Society Scenerios and Adventure Paths there are over 1,000 Pathfinder RPG stat blocks out there.

I remember when I first started keeping the mighty Excel file I now have (and update each month). It's literally my NPC "generator". I can search by class, race, level and so on and within a minute I have the PDf and its page where I can copy the stat block into a template I keep handy for game prep.

Since August of '09 I haven't made a single stat block. Talk about cutting down on game prep.

Oh, so yes, I think this book is super!

That may be the coolest thing I have ever heard of. I want one!

Read the Rival Guide from cover to cover a few nights ago. Loved it. Thinking about a fun homegrown adventure path featuring a series of rough-and-tumble bounty hunters (the party) who are hired to assassinate the other rival parties. It would go something like this ...

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