Pathfinder Rulebook Ongoing Subscription

I believe he meant for International (though I could be wrong) ...

Yes, you are right, I meant for international shipping. IIRC, someone from Paizo explained a while ago that USPS has only one international shipping option left: Priority Mail. But I may be wrong.

--
So, where did I put this blasted key?

Come on, Paizo. Give us a little break. Make it worth our while to subscribe to this line and get the book for this shipping price. You're getting our commitment (and the associated help in extimating print run sizes) and get to sell the books at a much higher margin if we order directly from you as opposed to local stores or amazon sites or whatever. Don't you think we should get an incentive in the form of a discount on shipping?

It earns you goodwill points from customers and probably some money because it's got to be a better deal for you to sell directly, even after discounted shipping.

Nothing? Not even a comment?

I'm not sure what sort of comment you're looking for, Kae. We've set up a subscription deal that we feel provides added value to subscribers, and we've done the best we can with the shipping costs. Right now a free PDF is the primary benefit of subscribing, and we don't have any plans to change that. Response to the subscription offer has thus far been overwhelming, so it's clear that the deal as stated works for hundreds of customers.

We will soon announce a price for the PDF of the Core Rulebook. It's going to be reasonably priced. We set our shipping costs at what the postal service(s) tell us it costs, without upcharges or padding to make a profit. We have not, to my knowledge, cut the shipping costs for anything in the past, and I don't expect that we will do so here.

KaeYoss wrote:

Come on, Paizo. Give us a little break. Make it worth our while to subscribe to this line and get the book for this shipping price. You're getting our commitment (and the associated help in extimating print run sizes) and get to sell the books at a much higher margin if we order directly from you as opposed to local stores or amazon sites or whatever. Don't you think we should get an incentive in the form of a discount on shipping?

It earns you goodwill points from customers and probably some money because it's got to be a better deal for you to sell directly, even after discounted shipping.

Nothing? Not even a comment?

Maybe get your orders to over $100 (US), so that Paizo will pay $10 of the shipping? Sounds like your close.

KaeYoss wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Come on, Paizo. Give us a little break. Make it worth our while to subscribe to this line and get the book for this shipping price. You're getting our commitment (and the associated help in extimating print run sizes) and get to sell the books at a much higher margin if we order directly from you as opposed to local stores or amazon sites or whatever. Don't you think we should get an incentive in the form of a discount on shipping?

It earns you goodwill points from customers and probably some money because it's got to be a better deal for you to sell directly, even after discounted shipping.

Nothing? Not even a comment?

Maybe get your orders to over $100 (US), so that Paizo will pay $10 of the shipping? Sounds like your close.

Sadly that does not apply to Subscriptions or Pre-Orders

Maybe get your orders to over $100 (US), so that Paizo will pay $10 of the shipping? Sounds like your close.

Do you have a link to that offer? Does it apply to subscription offers?

I'm not sure what sort of comment you're looking for, Kae. We've set up a subscription deal that we feel provides added value to subscribers, and we've done the best we can with the shipping costs. Right now a free PDF is the primary benefit of subscribing, and we don't have any plans to change that.

Except the PDF isn't really free, as the book costs about 30 more if I subscribe, as opposed to the other primary options (i.e. buying from amazon.de)

And unless the PDF costs more than that (which I doubt, since it would cost me that much with the usual 70% print price), I'm actually paying extra for the PDF. So the subscription offers me nothing (while you get the commitment).

Response to the subscription offer has thus far been overwhelming, so it's clear that the deal as stated works for hundreds of customers.

How many of those are from outside the US? How many of them have to pay through their nose for shipping?

We have not, to my knowledge, cut the shipping costs for anything in the past, and I don't expect that we will do so here.

First of all, there already are discounts. there's that 10$ thing Robert Miller 55 talks about (though I have to admit that I can't confirm that myself), and there's "Paizo Discounted Postal Delivery - Discounted shipping for international shipments over $25 from one to four pounds."

I got that international discount more than once.

So it's not as if Paizo hasn't ever done anything like this.

For me, the fact right now is that I would in all likelyhood, pay you for the privilege to subscribe, since the extra shipping cost is as much or more than the money I save for the free PDF.

Again: If I subscribe, I get print+pdf for $42.5, but pay $45 for shipping - yes, that does include other subscription stuff, which would otherwise cost 11 dollars, so it's $34, for a total of $76.5.

If I don't subscribe, I get the print version for about $50, but have to pay for the PDF.

So unless the PDF costs more than 31 dollars (which would mean I pay about $26.5 due to PF Advantage), I pay more for the subscription.

My guess is something like 25 dollars, maybe less, which means I'd pay 21.25 for the PDF. Which means there is an effective 5 dollar fee for subscribing.

What do I get out of those 5 dollars? Well, a shiny tag. For me, that shiny tag isn't worth 5 dollars. But you would not only get those 5 dollars, but also my commitment (which you guys said repeatedly is useful to you since subscriptions help you gauge demand and better size up print runs) - and you get to send me the book directly and let me pay all the shipping costs, which is probably a lot more profitable to you than the alternatives.

Does it become clear why I'm upset? If I subscribed, I wouldn't get anything out of it - quite the opposite: I'd take a beating so you get extra benefits.

Does. Not. Compute.

KaeYoss wrote:

Come on, Paizo. Give us a little break. Make it worth our while to subscribe to this line and get the book for this shipping price. You're getting our commitment (and the associated help in extimating print run sizes) and get to sell the books at a much higher margin if we order directly from you as opposed to local stores or amazon sites or whatever. Don't you think we should get an incentive in the form of a discount on shipping?

It earns you goodwill points from customers and probably some money because it's got to be a better deal for you to sell directly, even after discounted shipping.

Nothing? Not even a comment?

Wow ...

I don't understand all the hostility. I'm sorry you apparently live overseas and international shipping costs can be very high. Heck, that's why I no longer sell to people outside the U.S. when I sell on EBAY - the shipping charges are just too high. But that's not my fault any more than is it Paizo's fault. If it works better for you, buy the book through Amazon or whatever and then buy the PDF from Paizo if you still want it.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you KaeYoss, honest. But ... enough monopolizing the thread(s) with this already.

Please.

I took the bullet and subscribed, despite being an overseas customer. It will save me on the August shipment of other products, and I get the PDF as soon as possible, which is critical given the 1 month wait for the package to arrive in my backwoods country :)

KaeYoss, if you go ahead and pull the trigger on the subscription, I'll personally paypal you $5.

International shipping is just one of those things Amazon can out-compete on, what with shipping centers all over the world and the volume to beat up shippers on price. Does't mean Paizo is evil or isn't trying. International shipping is murderous right now. Hopefully when currencies and fule prices stabilize, someone will take advantage of the opening for semi-affordable international shipping, and restore it.

By the way, the PDF will likely be $35 less any discounts. That's what the Campaign Setting PDF was, and it is also a $50 hardcover.

Well, I´m overseas as well. I just cancelled my preorder a while ago and ordered the book via my FLGS. I´ll see about the pdf when the price is set. I think it is unfair to blame paizo for the int´l shipping rates and demand that they do something about it. *shrug* It is just impossible to make everyone happy all the time.

Stefan

Wow ...

I don't understand all the hostility.

Hostility? No. Annoyance, yes. Lots of it.

I'm sorry you apparently live overseas and international shipping costs can be very high.

Apparently's got nothing to do with it. And they not just can be very high, they are.

But ... enough monopolizing the thread(s) with this already.

Please.

So my concerns don't matter and I'm not allowed to use this thread for on-topic discussion for more than - what? Three posts? How many do I get before it's presumptuous?

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you KaeYoss, honest.

Funny way to do that, really. Telling people to shut up when they're annoyed.

I think it is unfair to blame paizo for the int´l shipping rates and demand that they do something about it.

I don't blame them for the rates. But they have to realise that it's a really bad deal for international customers, and that at with the current situation, it would be a really bad idea for international customers to subscribe.

Losing money bad, in fact.

Kae, put yourself in the position of an american customer - if we get some crazy shipping discount, they might think "hey, I get treated worse by Paizo just because I live in the US !".

It's enough that International orders get a discount on shipping already. I am pretty sensitive on the topic of "customer equality" because I am often on the wrong end of some retarded business practices ("we ship internationally except North Korea, Vatican, Nidal, Geb and Poland") and don't get me started on iTunes and few other "valid only in selected countries" services. Blergh...

Actually, I don't mind the shipping cost to Germany. The book price itself with Pathfinder Advantage, along with getting the PDF, makes up for that. I'll be getting the book at $42,50, which translates to roughly 30 € at current exchange rate. My FLGS will probably charge at least 40 €, so that saves me at least 10 € (about $14). My usual subscription package in August would cost about $14 to ship without the Core Rulebook, and $45 with it, for a difference of about $30. So unless the PDF costs less than $15, I'm getting the better end of the deal.

I don't blame them for the rates. But they have to realise that it's a really bad deal for international customers, and that at with the current situation, it would be a really bad idea for international customers to subscribe.

Losing money bad, in fact.

Based on your own math, it looks like it is in fact cheaper for you to subscribe if you want the PDFs. So I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions. Our only other $50 product has a $35 PDF, and from what you said $31-ish was the break even point.

It's just once.

Vic Wertz wrote:

We're currently expecting all August subscription products to ship together at the beginning of the month.

This was my concern as well. Does this mean *shakes magic 8 ball* subscribers will get their copies (and yummy PDFs) prior to Gencon?

Assuming everything reaches our warehouse on time, we are hopeful that some subscribers will get their stuff on or around the first day of Gen Con, but that's not something we can actually guarantee for anyone.

Timitius wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

stuff about buying PDFs

Catalyst Game Labs recently announced their intent to sell PDFs through retailers. Watch how that works, and I think you may have your mechanism...

Paizo should definetly jump on that bandwagon. Form a strategic alliance with Catalyst, bring PDFs to the stores, and make people happy!

I look forward to learning more about their plan. The most obvious issue I see is that many game stores don't have computers with internet connections—I've heard perhaps as few as 10% do—so this would only help a subset of retailers.

Just curious, but if I set this up, when will the funds go out of my bank? When it ships?

As with pretty much everything, we do an authorization on your card at checkout time to ensure that the card is valid, but we don't actually charge your card until we ship your products.

If I click on the RPG subscription it will automatically convert my preorders (of both the core rules and the bestiary) to the subscription? Do I have that right?

Assuming you've ordered one copy of each, it will cancel them, and then replace them as part of the subscription.

(And will I get a "second" hit from Pazio to my bank card (insuring the funds are there) or since that part has already been done, it won't be repeated?)

In most cases, yes. However, if your preorder was more than a few days ago, your bank has probably already closed the first authorization, so it wouldn't be doubling it up.

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

Wow ...

I don't understand all the hostility.

Hostility? No. Annoyance, yes. Lots of it.

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

I'm sorry you apparently live overseas and international shipping costs can be very high.

Apparently's got nothing to do with it. And they not just can be very high, they are.

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

But ... enough monopolizing the thread(s) with this already.

Please.

So my concerns don't matter and I'm not allowed to use this thread for on-topic discussion for more than - what? Three posts? How many do I get before it's presumptuous?

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you KaeYoss, honest.

Funny way to do that, really. Telling people to shut up when they're annoyed.

Stebehil wrote:

I think it is unfair to blame paizo for the int´l shipping rates and demand that they do something about it.

I don't blame them for the rates. But they have to realise that it's a really bad deal for international customers, and that at with the current situation, it would be a really bad idea for international customers to subscribe.

Losing money bad, in fact.

I don't recall ever telling anyone to shut up. I simply voiced my opinion that you have expressed your point in this thread (as is certainly your right) numerous times, you've received well reasoned answers from more than one Paizo employee and yet you continue to complain. Therefore, I asked that you give it a rest and stop trying to monopolize this thread.

Oh, and I did a quick count ... you've posted about 13 times in this thread (not 3) and each one carries pretty much the same degree of negativity and hostility. Quite frankly, it's getting old.

This is of course just my opinion, but it seems to me you might want to take a step back and try to see if you are more interested in arguing and complaining simply for the sake of arguing and complaining than anything else.

Subscribed. What the heck, international postage gripes or not I'm just gonna order it through Paizo. It looks like the combined shipping with my other subscriptions will work out better than two separate postage costs, certainly with a free pdf.

QUESTION FOR VIC: In my subscription page it says that August will be USPS Priority though my usual preference is Standard, what with my being in Europe and getting a pdf instantly, I can usually wait for the physical copy. I was intending to shift to Priority for August - is this automatic or should I check closer to the time?

Because items over 4 pounds can only be sent Priority to international destinations, the shipment containing the core rulebook will automatically be overridden to Priority for you.

Majuba wrote:

I believe he meant for International (though I could be wrong) ...

Yes, you are right, I meant for international shipping. IIRC, someone from Paizo explained a while ago that USPS has only one international shipping option left: Priority Mail. But I may be wrong.

That's only true for parcels over four pounds. There are cheaper methods for smaller packages.

...Which means there is an effective 5 dollar fee for subscribing.

What do I get out of those 5 dollars? Well, a shiny tag. For me, that shiny tag isn't worth 5 dollars.

Honestly, then, my advice to you is just not to subscribe, or at least not to subscribe until after the Core Rulebook ships. After that, we won't have to deal with the enforced Priority shipping, and things should get a lot more reasonable.

International shipping is just one of those things Amazon can out-compete on, what with shipping centers all over the world and the volume to beat up shippers on price. Does't mean Paizo is evil or isn't trying. International shipping is murderous right now. Hopefully when currencies and fule prices stabilize, someone will take advantage of the opening for semi-affordable international shipping, and restore it.

By the way, the PDF will likely be $35 less any discounts. That's what the Campaign Setting PDF was, and it is also a $50 hardcover.

We've already said that, though our PDFs are normally priced at 30% off the print edition MSRP, the Core Rulebook PDF will be priced even lower than that. The exact number is yet to be determined, though.

I live in Ireland, so the high shipping costs apply to me too.

Looking at my subscription page the August costs look like this:

1x Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (OGL) Hardcover
1x Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils (PFRPG)
1x Pathfinder Module: Crypt of the Everflame (PFRPG)
1x Pathfinder Adventure Path #25: The Bastards of Erebus (Council of Thieves 1 of 6) (PRPG)

USPS Priority Mail: $44.03

That is about EUR 32 in shipping costs. But I will get the PDFs free in return.
I do not find this too expensive.

By the way, the PDF will likely be $35 less any discounts. That's what the Campaign Setting PDF was, and it is also a $50 hardcover.

We've already said that, though our PDFs are normally priced at 30% off the print edition MSRP, the Core Rulebook PDF will be priced even lower than that. The exact number is yet to be determined, though.

34.98? ;-)

I live in Ireland, so the high shipping costs apply to me too.

Looking at my subscription page the August costs look like this:

1x Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (OGL) Hardcover
1x Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils (PFRPG)
1x Pathfinder Module: Crypt of the Everflame (PFRPG)
1x Pathfinder Adventure Path #25: The Bastards of Erebus (Council of Thieves 1 of 6) (PRPG)

USPS Priority Mail: $44.03

That is about EUR 32 in shipping costs. But I will get the PDFs free in return.
I do not find this too expensive.

Yay, Ireland!!!

i'm in the same boat, assuming that when I subscribe for the AP my pathfinder advantage will discount the RPG 15% I find it totally reasonable, and the pdf for the RPG is really important for me, less so for the adventure, but massively for the rules.

Golem Glow FTW!!

That's the first time I've ever typed "FTW". It just seemed appropriate.

Vic Wertz wrote:

By the way, the PDF will likely be $35 less any discounts. That's what the Campaign Setting PDF was, and it is also a $50 hardcover.

We've already said that, though our PDFs are normally priced at 30% off the print edition MSRP, the Core Rulebook PDF will be priced even lower than that. The exact number is yet to be determined, though.

34.98? ;-)

42 !!!

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

yoda8myhead wrote:

Now there are a lot of new subscriptions. Can someone explain to me the difference in titles people have? I now see "Paizo Charter Superscriber," "Pathfinder Chronicles Charter Superscriber," as well as a ton of individual subscriber tags.

There is a tag for every single subscription we offer. Currently, that is the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Chronicles, Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Modules, GameMastery Cards, GameMastery Maps, and Planet Stories.

A Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber is a Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber who has had a paid subscription since before August 13th 2007.

A Pathfinder Chronicles Superscriber is a subscriber to the Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Chronicles, Pathfinder Companion, and Pathfinder Modules. They get a grey box around their avatar. The grey box sticks around even if they have a specialty title like a Superstar or contributor tag.

A Pathfinder Chronicles Charter Superscriber is the same, except they are also a Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter subscriber.

A GameMastery Superscriber is a subscriber to both GameMastery lines.

A Paizo Superscriber has every single subscription we offer. They get a Paizo Purple box around their avatar. Like the Chronicles Superscriber box, it persists even if the tags are replaced.

A Paizo Charter Superscriber is the same, except they are also a Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber.

Any chance to realize something like a tag "Pathfinder Megascriber" for those adding the rule book sub to one's Pathfinder Superscription?

I am interested in the rulebook subscription, but not that much into the planet stories sub. I'd nevertheless like to see the tags somewhat reduced in my header... ;-)

Kr,
Günther

Kaeyoss, no ! Don't let those vile American colloquialisms invade your pristine Teutonic vocabulary ! The words you are looking for are:

Verdammt Paizo, Donnerwetter !

Any chance to realize something like a tag "Pathfinder Megascriber" for those adding the rule book sub to one's Pathfinder Superscription?

Yes, please!

Ahhh ... come to me, sweet Pathfinder Charter Megascriber.

Guennarr wrote:

Any chance to realize something like a tag "Pathfinder Megascriber" for those adding the rule book sub to one's Pathfinder Superscription?

Yes, please!

Ahhh ... come to me, sweet Pathfinder Charter Megascriber.

Actually, it's called "Paizo Charter Superscriber" as you can see up there.

Actually, it's called "Paizo Charter Superscriber" as you can see up there.

Oh, I meant for just the entire Pathfinder line. No way could I subscribe to absolutely everything; I'm already lying to myself about being able to afford just the Pathfinder stuff.

KaeYoss wrote:

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

Make a perception check.

Zaister wrote:

Actually, it's called "Paizo Charter Superscriber" as you can see up there.

Oh, I meant for just the entire Pathfinder line. No way could I subscribe to absolutely everything; I'm already lying to myself about being able to afford just the Pathfinder stuff.

I know how you feel. I can't bring myself to subscribe to the item cars though.

So anyone know what the average monthly cost will be for a "Paizo Charter Superscriber" after August? With a high and low estimate?

You know, Paizo could look into arranging their schedule to allow for a fixed average monthly "Paizo Charter Superscriber" subscription rate, with one year commitments. It would make it much easier for subscribers to budget their tithes, errr... Paizo subscriptions...

grrtigger wrote:

Zaister wrote:

Actually, it's called "Paizo Charter Superscriber" as you can see up there.

Oh, I meant for just the entire Pathfinder line. No way could I subscribe to absolutely everything; I'm already lying to myself about being able to afford just the Pathfinder stuff.

I know how you feel. I can't bring myself to subscribe to the item cars though.

I know, I'm the same on the maps!

Still-a-Superscriber Majuba

International shipping is just one of those things Amazon can out-compete on, what with shipping centers all over the world and the volume to beat up shippers on price.

Orders from Amazon.com are fulfilled from centers in the US. Orders from other Amazon locals (co.uk, .de, .fr et al) are fulfilled from in that particular country.

Daigle wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

Make a perception check.

Shouldn't that be Sense Motive?

KaeYoss wrote:

Daigle wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

Make a perception check.

Shouldn't that be Sense Motive?

Nope... Perception to notice his new Tag.

Crap. I rolled a 7.

As a UK subscriber I have no problem with the shipping costs, just wish they'd get here faster :)

Darkwolf wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Daigle wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

Make a perception check.

Shouldn't that be Sense Motive?

Nope... Perception to notice his new Tag.

I failed. :-(

Darkwolf wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Daigle wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

Make a perception check.

Shouldn't that be Sense Motive?

Nope... Perception to notice his new Tag.

I rolled a FOUR!!!

Rolled a 1....make that a -8 with modifiers.

Daigle wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

Well darn you, Paizo! Darn you to heck!

I assume this is a good "Darn you"? ;)

Make a perception check.

Thanks for reminding me, had to update my profile to be Pathfinder compliant. :-)