Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Monsters Revisited (OGL)

Will the monsters in this book also appear in the Bestiary that will be coming out later this fall?

Will the monsters in this book also appear in the Bestiary that will be coming out later this fall?

Per the list given in the Bonus Bestiary, yes they will.

I won't guarentee that the varients and/or fluff will be in there.

Why is the PDF $12.99?
That seems pretty expensive considering the 578-pg PDF for the Core Rulebook was only $9.99.
What gives?

For an additional $5, you might as well get the actual print version.

The PF Core book PDF @ 10 USD is one-of-a-kind offer, 13 bucks is a regular price for a 64 page Paizo pdf.

Why is the PDF $12.99?

That seems pretty expensive considering the 578-pg PDF for the Core Rulebook was only $9.99.
What gives?

For an additional $5, you might as well get the actual print version.

Exactly ;-)

More seriously, the RPG PDF was sold cheaper to increase demand.

Those Paizo scoundrels and their shifty marketing tactics...

Will the monsters in this book also appear in the Bestiary that will be coming out later this fall?

Yes, but the Bestiary is nothing like this book.

Take the goblin, for example.

In the Bestiary, you'll get one page on the goblin, consisting of a quarter-page stat block, five paragraphs of flavor, a couple of paragraphs on goblin PCs, and a quarter-page illustration.

In Classic Monsters Revisited, goblins get six pages, including an overview, ecology, habitat & society, campaign role, treasure, goblin variants, goblins in Golarion, goblin names, goblin deities, typical goblin distractions, and the stats (which, since this book was published long before the Pathfinder RPG existed, are for 3.5).

It's kind of like the difference between looking something up in a dictionary and looking it up in an encyclopedia.

For an additional $5, you might as well get the actual print version.

Yep, and well worth it. Get 'em while they're hot.

Yep, and well worth it. Get 'em while they're hot.

Ok, you guys talked me into it.

I was surprised to see Golarion-specific information about the monsters.
I was under the impression that Paizo was trying to make things universal.
Will the Bestiary also contain Golarion-specific info?

Since the core rulebook printed after Classic Monsters was published, will that affect/change any of the info in Classic Monsters?

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

Yep, and well worth it. Get 'em while they're hot.

Ok, you guys talked me into it.

It's pretty cool so far.

I was surprised to see Golarion-specific information about the monsters.
I was under the impression that Paizo was trying to make things universal.
Will the Bestiary also contain Golarion-specific info?

Since the core rulebook printed after Classic Monsters was published, will that affect/change any of the info in Classic Monsters?

Oooh, oohh I can answer this!

The RPG line is more generic. The Chronicles line is more world specific. (Frex, my hobgoblins/goblins do not have the same origins as theirs). That said, yes there are lots of cool ideas to borrow. Minotaur elders rock.

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

Yep, and well worth it. Get 'em while they're hot.

Ok, you guys talked me into it.

It's pretty cool so far.

I was surprised to see Golarion-specific information about the monsters.
I was under the impression that Paizo was trying to make things universal.
Will the Bestiary also contain Golarion-specific info?

Since the core rulebook printed after Classic Monsters was published, will that affect/change any of the info in Classic Monsters?

Yeah; ALL of our books are Golarion-specific, with the exception of the RPG line. And right now, there's only the Core RPG out in that line.

The Bestiary will also be world-neutral, but none of the monster flavor text in the Bestiary will directly contradict the info in any Golarion-products we've printed. In some cases, as with the skum, it builds directly off of Golarion flavor, but no proper nouns or locations or history elements from Golarion are included.

Things like goblins and ogres will be very at peace and work quite well with the Revisited line.

Oooh, oohh I can answer this!

The RPG line is more generic. The Chronicles line is more world specific. (Frex, my hobgoblins/goblins do not have the same origins as theirs). That said, yes there are lots of cool ideas to borrow. Minotaur elders rock.

Aha.

In the event that certain information in the Chronicles and RPG lines contradict each other, does the RPG override Chronicles?

In the event that certain information in the Chronicles and RPG lines contradict each other, does the RPG override Chronicles?

There shouldn't be contradictions, since we also built the PRPG so that it works perfect (we hope!) with Golarion. If you're talking about rules content contradicting, then you should err on the side of the system you're using, be it PRPG or 3.5.

I am excited about getting this book. Is it to be revised to new Pathfinder rules, or is this question even pertinent? It is more just cool strategies?

I am excited about getting this book. Is it to be revised to new Pathfinder rules, or is this question even pertinent? It is more just cool strategies?

Each monster has a stat block that duplicates their stats from the 3.5 MM. But the other five pages of content each monster has is almost purely flavor; there's some crunch elements here and there but not much. It works VERY well with the Pathfinder RPG.

Lonny Davis wrote:

I am excited about getting this book. Is it to be revised to new Pathfinder rules, or is this question even pertinent? It is more just cool strategies?

Each monster has a stat block that duplicates their stats from the 3.5 MM. But the other five pages of content each monster has is almost purely flavor; there's some crunch elements here and there but not much. It works VERY well with the Pathfinder RPG.

Awesome. Looks like I need a PDF copy.

Thanks.

Lonny Davis wrote:

I am excited about getting this book. Is it to be revised to new Pathfinder rules, or is this question even pertinent? It is more just cool strategies?

Each monster has a stat block that duplicates their stats from the 3.5 MM. But the other five pages of content each monster has is almost purely flavor; there's some crunch elements here and there but not much. It works VERY well with the Pathfinder RPG.

...and you'll be able to find the PFRPG stats for each of these critters in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary.

The only thing that bugs me about it is the price: it's a tad slender for the cost. If it was a fiver, I would call it one of the great GM aids ever released for ANY fantasy RPG -- the fluff and art are absolutely first rate.

...but the PDF price tag is a bit stiff for me.

Well, I just received this book and Dungeon Denizens Revisited today and I love em. Why is that all I can think of to say about every Pathfinder book I've seen so far is "I love it"? :-)

Seriously though, I've always loved the idea of "re-envisioning" monsters and these two books don't disappoint. I've also always liked the idea of delving further into the ecology of various so-called monsters. I think that's one thing way too many D&D players don't bother thinking about(at least in my experience)... these creatures exist for a reason. Granted, some of them are the result of insane wizardly experiments, inscrutable gods, weird prehistorical mana storms or whathave you, but the majority are as "natural" to a fantasy world as dolphins, fire ants, horses, vampire bats, etc are to our world. I love learning about the "why" of various monsters instead of just getting a physical description and a stat block.

I sincerely hope that this series continues... my next purchase is going to be Dragons Revisited and I soooo can't wait for Classic Horrors... wights, wraiths, ghouls, vampires and yay zombies! I love throwing the occasional zombie apocalypse/dawn of the dead style event into my campaigns. Who says fantasy gaming can't support zombie horror!

I just noticed the print edition of this is still available. If I didn't already own it, I'd be tempted to buy it.

I just noticed the print edition of this is still available. If I didn't already own it, I'd be tempted to buy it.

Frankly, I'm surprised we still have any print copies. It was sold out for several months, but we recovered some cases from one of our distributors a few months ago.

Get 'em while you can, because when it's gone this time, it's probably gone for good...

It's good to know that "typical Paizo" means that it's an instant classic, revolutionizes and reinvigorates how we play at low levels, and almost immediately sells out. Kudos to Paizo for the phenomenal first year on PFRPG!

Is this a second Print Run? I thought you guys were out of these.

We only ever did one print run of this. One of our distributors had some extra copies, and we requested that they return them to us so that we could sell them on paizo.com.

After this they will be gone for good.

We only ever did one print run of this. One of our distributors had some extra copies, and we requested that they return them to us so that we could sell them on paizo.com.

After this they will be gone for good.

Why no re-print??? Unless they're going to be bundled into a future product... It seems insane not to reprint this product.

Erik Mona wrote:

We only ever did one print run of this. One of our distributors had some extra copies, and we requested that they return them to us so that we could sell them on paizo.com.

After this they will be gone for good.

Why no re-print??? Unless they're going to be bundled into a future product... It seems insane not to reprint this product.

There's a giant discussion about the economics of reprints somewhere on the boards; that provides a pretty good explanation.

Besides, the PDF will be available forever and you could print-on-demand it, I imagine.

Erik Mona wrote:

We only ever did one print run of this. One of our distributors had some extra copies, and we requested that they return them to us so that we could sell them on paizo.com.

After this they will be gone for good.

Why no re-print??? Unless they're going to be bundled into a future product... It seems insane not to reprint this product.

Some of you might recall that we originally sold out of Classic Monsters in just a few months in summer 2008, and then we managed to recover a few cases from one of our distributors about a year later. We thought that a year's worth of pent-up demand would mean we'd blow through those cases in no time, but we actually still have some. (Not enough to offer to distribution, though—it's pretty much a paizo.com exclusive now.)

Anyway, given that the minimum quantity required to justify a reprint would be far, far higher than that small restock we received, it would probably take us years to just recoup the printing costs of another press run, much less actually make it profitable.

It's a shame, too, because this is one of our best products ever. Fortunately, it will live on in PDF form...

There's a giant discussion about the economics of reprints somewhere on the boards; that provides a pretty good explanation.

I think you're talking about this thread. This particular product has provided excellent evidence to back up some of my assertions in that first post...

Some of you might recall that we originally sold out of Classic Monsters in just a few months in summer 2008, and then we managed to recover a few cases from one of our distributors about a year later. We thought that a year's worth of pent-up demand would mean we'd blow through those cases in no time, but we actually still have some. (Not enough to offer to distribution, though—it's pretty much a paizo.com exclusive now.)

I suspect that most of the people who really wanted a copy found it through other channels after the first sell out. I know when I saw that is was no longer available here, I grabbed a copy at my local Barnes and Noble. I was surprised to see it there actually, since this was long before the Core RPG release, and the only Paizo books they had were it and the Campaign Setting Hardcover.

Perhaps B&N (and other book sellers) ordered more than usual for a chronicles book to test the waters and eventually a number were returned to distribution?

If you don't have a copy, pick one up while you still can! I keep wanting to use this plus 0one games "Caverns of Chaos" map to make a "Keep on the Borderlands Revisited" Adventure.

Perhaps if we are very lucky we'll get a hardcover "Golarion Monsters Revisited" book that includes this in 10 years.

So I get an email tonight saying that the PDF of this product has been updated. It said that the hobgoblin sample names had been changed. I immediately downloaded the new version to compare with the copy that I already had. I expected to maybe see an inadvertently naughty name or maybe something that sounded a little bit like a real word (Kahtneep ~ catnip). Instead I find that all of the names both male and female had been changed.

I'm just wondering what prompted the name changes. Any official comment?

So I get an email tonight saying that the PDF of this product has been updated. It said that the hobgoblin sample names had been changed. I immediately downloaded the new version to compare with the copy that I already had. I expected to maybe see an inadvertently naughty name or maybe something that sounded a little bit like a real word (Kahtneep ~ catnip). Instead I find that all of the names both male and female had been changed.

I'm just wondering what prompted the name changes. Any official comment?

I just logged on to ask exactly the same thing. Seems like a weird thing to go back and fix.

Maybe they got a lot of angry emails from hobgoblins about getting their names wrong?

That's probably it. Or demanding royalties.

There was also an email about the ARG being updated. My guess is that someone noticed something wrong with them there, and so they've gone back and fixed it.

It's strange indeed that they would go back and change content in a book that is more than four years old. This got me curious and I checked.

CMR original:
Male: Arark, Bekri, Cenk, Doga, Doruk, Fethi, Haluk,
Kurat, Lemi, Mert, Mevlut, Oktar, Rafet, Saltuk, Turgut
Female: Afet, Ceyda, Ela, Esma, Huri, Kumru, Maral,
Masal, Melda, Nisa, Nural, Seda, Sena, Tansu, Vesile

CMR new:
Male: Aronok, Bankanir, Dorduken, Fentanas, Grur,
Hagors, Kalmant, Malgroar, Slatark, Talogan
Female: Arinet, Eloqi, Eskani, Horinnia, Korumun,
Moranassa, Moritla, Nimanisi, Noranillim, Vortiga

The ARG versions more or less have the same names.

My guess is: the names in the original versions are similar or identical to popular Turkish names, maybe some turkish people or people of turkish descent felt offended with their names being used for hobgoblins, or Paizo want to prevent someone from getting offended.

Turkish Hobgoblins selling kebabs - now that's an idea for encounter!

There was also an email about the ARG being updated.

Yeah, I got that one too, but figured they'd be the same. As it turns out, I was wrong.

[CMR original and new names]

The ARG versions more or less have the same names.

My guess is: the names in the original versions are similar or identical to popular Turkish names, maybe some turkish people or people of turkish descent felt offended with their names being used for hobgoblins, or Paizo want to prevent someone from getting offended.

For completeness, here are the "old" ARG names:

There's a fair bit of variance in the male names, and a single difference in the female names.

Also, interesting catch on the possible inspiration of the original names. If that is indeed the case, then you're right that it's probably the motivation for the change.

I've got a question: has anyone ever used the variant bugbears listed in this book? They're my favorite monsters out of the entire book, especially the koblak, who comes off as true horror-movie material. The fact that its rather decent DR has such an unusual yet fitting weakness doesn't hurt, as does its ability to make undead monsters out of children. I think it's a shame we never saw any of them show up in official adventures or APs.

Many of these names for hobgoblins were drawn from common turkish names. We changed them because it is generally our policy to avoid using real world names whenever possible.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Many of these names for hobgoblins were drawn from common turkish names. We changed them because it is generally our policy to avoid using real world names whenever possible.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

*cough* Irrisen's jadwigas *cough*

Does this mean the book has been reprinted?

Does this mean the book has been reprinted?

There are currently no plans to reprint Classic Monsters Revisited. The change has only taken place in the PDFs.

Many of these names for hobgoblins were drawn from common turkish names. We changed them because it is generally our policy to avoid using real world names whenever possible.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Cheers.

These 'revisitations' are among the best books that Paizo produces (misfit monsters is my all time fave) but I have steered away from this as a 3.5 product - as a PF only user would I have any problems using the crunch in this book? And.....I know it isn't going to happen but I'll ask anyway, is there any chance that the 3.5 books that have sold out could be 2nd printed as PF? Korvosa, Katapesh and Absalom would all be massively welcome in my game!

These 'revisitations' are among the best books that Paizo produces (misfit monsters is my all time fave) but I have steered away from this as a 3.5 product - as a PF only user would I have any problems using the crunch in this book?

This book is pretty light on the crunch-side; the bulk of the book is devoted to ecology, society, and how to use the monster in a campaign.

The crunch that is there is easy to convert to Pathfinder rules, plus most of the statblocks in this book came directly from the 3.5 Monster Manual, so the conversion work has already been handled by the Pathfinder Bestiary. There are two statblocks that need conversion, but nothing too complex, and the feats and items don't need much in the way of conversion beyond replacing "touch attack" with "CMB", and replacing "Hide" and "Move Silently" with "Stealth".

I recommend it :)