urodivoi's page

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Our Rogue scouts ahead and is often discovered behind enemy lines... We are happy that he can run away with his slghtly above average speed and successive withdrawals, and as he leads them to the rest of the party that qualifies as a trap!

Its good for pc's and for stories if its possible to run away sometimes. Generally archers and spellcasters are impossible to escape.

Hmm after re-reading this thread, i`m thinking that when enlarged can't attack a creature 5 feet away at all with my bardiche, even if threaten some squares of a large or larger creature... Makes reach weapons less then optimal with large creatures because 5ft step then attack suddenly doesn't work well. Which is fair I guess but will change my strategies a touch!

My character uses a reach weapon, an is often enlarged, so ve had to look this up. The way I've been playing if a creature is adjacent. Is cannot be targeted with a reach weapon.. But if reach is increased past 10 feet (enlarged) you can potentually attack non-adjacent creature if you threaten any of its squares taking soft cover penalties if nessesary.

Mind you my table houseruled away soft cover (high powered game) so go reach weapons!

In any case you should have a light back-up weapon of some sort, a throwing weapon is great with quick draw.

Mine tend to be puns... I look at the example race names then pick an english word with the right sound that is also discriptive and mess with the spelling. Mallus Greater for an intimidating character, Tork Stoneshaper for my Dwarf. With weird fantasy names I have trouble remembering my own character's name, let alone the others around the table

thejeff wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

I forgot.

Bard has Haste.

It gives a similar effect, I guess. The flavor is very different.

It's a standard (and very nice) buff. It lasts and doesn't happen on your action, so it doesn't feel the same as "Barbarian! Strike him down!"

My fighter tactician uses trip maneuvers to give out AOO, as a Dwarf he has sliding axe throw to do that at a distance, but a bola would work. Other maneuvers grant aoo's that give that controller feel too

My Dwarven fighter with bardiche uses throwing axes as his main back-up weapon, weapon training (axe) applies to both, he can attack adjacent squares or throw axes to get the most out of iterative attacks, plus having focused on trip feats and thrown weapon feats 'sliding axe throw' from Dwarves of Galorian is his signature move.

Lots of fun and options, i just have to suck up not threatening adjacent squares all the time in exchange for plenty of battlefield control. I have javelins for long range attacks too.

I haven't played with the beginners box but like the idea of streamlining combat by removing AOO.

Treating threatened squares as difficult terrain might be a simple way to model the need to move carefully past armed creatures?

Brass knuckles are under unarmed attacks in the weapon table and are described as unarmed attacks in their description so I see no reason why you can't use weapon properties from the amulet and enhancement bonus' from the brass knuckles.

Just remember the combination cannot exceed a +10 bonus equivalency on any attack.

It saves you money but not as much as you might think because of the inflated price of the amulet. Edit: Oh, I see you did the math- I overlooked that.

Kerym Ammath wrote:
Actually if you take a look at a historical cestus you might realize holding anything in hand is being generous, much less wielding a weapon with any degree of proficiency.

I guess the designers were in a generous mood, they could have worded it like the brass knuckles, and that would have been fine, but they didn't.

A cestus like those used in 1500 BC (from a quick google search) don't look like they leave the hand free to wield an object, so the pathfinder model must resemble gauntlets or gloves a little more then those ancient examples.

I was looking for rogue advice on these boards for a friend and was warned that bleeding attack isn't as powerful as it appears. At low levels, especially if your party focus' fire, the enemy will die before the bleed damage kicks in at the start of their turn. At high levels the damage becomes insignificant. Personally I like the flavour though.

Edit: you might find this bit of the conversation interesting...

Ice Titan wrote:
urodivoi wrote:

Edit: is there anything amazing for rogues from the APG? If not I will not bring it up as it will just make building a character more complicated.

A lot of rogue talents. Some good rogue archetypes, some bad ones. The archetypes need to be evaluated on a case-by-case, but the rogue talents which are great I may as well go over....

Assault leader - great, because giving the guy whose trips provoke an attack of opportunity an attack of opportunity (try saying that five times fast) is awesome
Peerless maneuver - rolling twice for acrobatics is great, but situational. I still think it's worthwhile, especially since you can use it 1/day for every 5 levels you have.
Distracting attack - amazing for the monk if he's taking medusa's wrath. he can sneak, forgo damage and then make the person he sneaked flat-footed to the monk... meaning more medusa's wrath. And with opportunist, that means more chances to use opportunist and get SA anyways.
Powerful Sneak + Deadly Sneak - two rogue talents to take a -2 on attacks and treat all SA dice that roll 1 or 2 as 3 is decent but not excellent for the rogue who isn't TWFing. For the TWF rogue, another -2 on top of everything is a bit overkill, and could make your SA hit harder but you hit less, which is the antithesis of what your main goal is
Positioning Attack - sneak attack and then move 30ft without provoking is almost necessary later in the game if you plan on taking on more than a basketfull of colossal monsters. if you don't see yourself fighting more than one great wyrm, passable.
Entanglement of blades - excellent. If you hit someone with SA, it prevents people from five-foot stepping out of flank, and can prevent people from five-foot stepping out of threatened areas. hit someone with this, then crippling strike them until they're unconcious. they can't move and they'll wish they could.
Redirect attack - 1/day get out of crit free card. If you get hit, you can redirect it...

Personally I would infer that 'items' in this case include weapons because that is when the distinction between wielding and holding becomes important.

My monk totally will be wielding other weapons while wearing his special material cestus.

I personally plan to always deflect the first arrow that hits rather then take the chance that I'll receive no benefit for that round (the other arrows might miss, or be shot at other targets) but that's just me.

Odraude wrote:
A little bump for help

It's come up on two other threads I've seen, as far as I can tell the power doesn't really work as written.

In any case once you hit level four you will have much better things to do with your ki points and you will never look back.

Most people think the intent was to give you two five foot steps, still situational but potentially useful - so that would be the way I'd try to get it house ruled in a home game. Otherwise suck it up for a level.

Edit: I also think changing it to 'as a swift action' rather then 'as a move action' would also be a way to give it a small amount of utility and would be another way to house rule. I'll see if I can dig up the other threads and faq it too.



Cartigan wrote:
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
Barber wrote:


Was working on my monk and a strange thought came to me. If I wield my temple sword with two hands, I know I will only receive my strength bonus to damage, but with "power attack" will I still get the additional +50%? I know I can flurry with the sucker, but what about two-handing it and flurrying? +50% or not?

Thanks for your time

You can not use a two-handed weapon in combination of flurry with blows.

Flurry of Blows attacks are made "as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat". The Two-Weapon Fighting feat is very clear on the benefits the feat provides for primary and off-hand weapons.

You mean you can't Flurry with a Quarterstaff?

This line:

"A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands."
should over-ride the more general
"as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat"
and allow flurrying with a weapon in two hands I believe. Aside from power attack (and furious focus?) its mostly cosmetic.

Meh, I noticed this as a quirky loophole, & by RAW don't see why it wouldn't work.

It doesn't seem important enough for a FAQ or to bother trying to exploit in my opinion though. I would just use the sword one handed in society play for simplicity and check with your GM in a home game if you really want to try to squeeze out that extra bit of damage.

Just my two cents

Ice Titan wrote:
urodivoi wrote:
Hey I just helped put together one kick-assed halfling rogue. Thanks for all the advice!

I hope you mean he kicks ass, not that he's been getting his ass kicked.

Glad I could help! If I did help.

Right kick-ass. :P

All the posts helped me understand the rogue better so I could give sound advice. I didn't hand my friend a build, he made the character at the table and I'm video-conferencing in so an imperfect connection mean I can could reasonably give him a piece of advice here and there.

Pointing him to finesse and hierloom Weapon means he has the highest to-hit in the party right now. Using the free +1 item to get mithral chainmail gives him the best AC. And trap-finding as the first rogue talent was a sound pick.

Solid start I think. And his wheezing, sleazy over-the-top Irish con-man (con-halfling) role-playing is hilarious.

Thanks again.

Hey I just helped put together one kick-assed halfling rogue. Thanks for all the advice!

link to voice of authority link

Ask James Jacobs your questions! :-P

Edit: just noticed the last post was a month ago... guess I'm late to the party :-P at least I got to practice my search fu!

Phasics wrote:

Went with Cleric 1/Monk 19

Swift Enlarge Person 6/day
Immedate action 10feet shift when enemy misses 6/day

Using Temple Sword enlarged for 2d6 dmg at low to mid levels

High STR and WIS build

Should be fun

20th level will be
+17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7/+2 with 1d8(enlarged 2d6) sword or 2d10 (enalrged 4d8) unarmed

which should be a whole lotta hurt

the swift enlarge is very handy save you spending your first turn buffing so you can jump right into combat. and at 6/day even having it dispelled is not an issue since I can throw it back on the next round, being swift dosen't provoke AoO's either

and the shift is great for getting out of and into flanking positions

When I saw the growth domain I thought it would be perfect for a one level dip in cleric... it even fits my character concept as my (human) monk has some stone giant heritage. But plant domain? Hmmm, not so much. One of the neutral stone-giant gods has the plant domain... but my character would have to shift alignment from good to neutral... oh well it'll probably be months before I get to the next level. Fun.

Somebody else made a list a couple of weeks back, I'll see if I can find it then compare. I found it useful cause flipping back & forth in the pdf is difficult.

Edit: here it is http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/aPGWhatArchtypesStack

Edit #2: now how do I linkify this??

Phasics wrote:
urodivoi wrote:
At lower levels you could use an adamantine temple sword & wear a silver cestus on one hand, cold iron cestus on the other, & have special materials, bludgeoning, piercing & slashing all covered without needing quick draw. Almost went this route myself.
at low levels how often do you really need DR overcomming weapons ?

I don't really know. I think my last DM(3.5) let +1 magic weapons bypass everything except hardness, so lower levels was the only time it mattered at all.

Brass Knuckles are also classified as unarmed attacks, so if you don't want it to work with brass knuckles enchantments 'unarmed strike' is more specific.

At lower levels you could use an adamantine temple sword & wear a silver cestus on one hand, cold iron cestus on the other, & have special materials, bludgeoning, piercing & slashing all covered without needing quick draw. Almost went this route myself.

As far as I can tell, flurry works like two-weapon fighting in progression but has some exceptions that make it very different.
First you always use 1x strength bonus whether attacks are off hand or wielded two handed.
Second you can use *any* combination of weapons or unarmed strikes which would include using the same weapon for every attack.

Edit: ninja'ed

The more different ideas the better. I once played a soldier type rogue and suffered (died!) from a lack of hit points so I like MordredofFairy Dwarf build personally. I don't know if it would appeal to my friend but it is interesting. :)

I wizard in the party would be nice but it might be a bit to much book keeping for a busy guy with a young family. The party doesn't have tons of knowledge skills or social skills, and the DM is promising that that there will be more then just combat encounters so the high # of skills the rogue gets will definitely help the party.

Interesting build there Ardenup, thanks. Hierloom Weapon is a great trait, flavourful and useful for any martial class (except the monk) I'll definitely be suggesting that one.

Ice Titan wrote:

Thanks Titan, exactly the sort of stuff I was looking for. I have character sheets for the rest of the party so aside from the important roguish skills I can point him to skills that are not covered by the party, it just will take a while to sort through.

We have a fairly optimised monk(me), a barbarian, druid, bow ranger, and cleric(though the cleric will probably often be absent.

we have very loose flanking house rules (anything better then 90 degrees) so flanking is easier.

No sorcerer/wizard will mean UMD is more useful I guess...

Edit: is there anything amazing for rogues from the APG? If not I will not bring it up as it will just make building a character more complicated.

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Start of a new campaign (starting at first level) & I am going to encourage my friend to play a rogue to fill out the party. He normally plays a fighter or paladin type character but he wants to play a character that is a little different.

He tends to end up with underpowered characters, so I want to be able to give him a bit of good advice for Rogues and warn him about options that look good but pan out as being underpowered.

25 point buy, starting at level 1. We can start with one +1 magic item.

Any advice from the community?

One of your options when you maintain your grapple:

Move: You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.

Even if you don't actually move yourself you should be able to use the move option to place the grappled in an adjacent square - unfortunately they get a chance to escape. You still have them grappled and restrained in that square though. (you don't occupy the same square as the creature you grapple in pathfinder)

[edit: I notice the rune power is invisible... maybe in this case the grappled shouldn't get a chance to escape until after it takes damage...hmm?]

James Risner wrote:

When I read that ability, it seems to be saying to me (my first interpretation) that if I spend 5 ki points I can take a 25 foot move with no AoO

That's not how it is written either... but it too makes more sense then the way it is written. The ability is not replacing a very powerful feature so it is OK if it is situational, but it should have some utility.

Starting at level 4 you have other things to spend those points on so it is not a big problem that the least powerful way to spend ki is not useful, but ki at level 3 which you can't use would be annoying for that one level.

On another thread most people assumed the intent was that this would be a special move that would still allow you to take a 5 foot step, though as written it doesn't work.

As written I don't see how the withdraw action, or a five foot step + standard action wouldn't always be better then spending a ki point this way.

Though I like Adam suggestion in the above post too.

(the situation where you might want to burn two ki to move 10 feet (or five feet in difficult terrain) without provoking as your whole round seems so unlikely its hardly worth mentioning.)

I just rediscovered that you don't get AoO while flat-footed so if you have a half decent initiative you have a chance to try some different combat maneuvers at the start of combat. (provided your opponent doesn't have combat expertise)

I think this will be the item I'll run by my DM:

Gloves of Mighty Shuriken (based off of the Amulet of Mighty Fists)
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot hands; Price 5,000 gp (+1), 20,000 gp (+2), 45,000 gp (+3), 80,000 gp (+4), 125,000 gp (+5); Weight —,


These gloves grant an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with thrown shuriken.

Alternatively, these gloves can grant ranged weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to ammunition. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. gloves of thrown shuriken cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. gloves of thrown shuriken do not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.


Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon, creator's caster level must be at least three times the bracer's bonus, plus any requirements of the ranged weapon special abilities; Cost 2,500 gp (+1), 10,000 gp (+2), 22,500 gp (+3), 40,000 gp (+4), 62,500 gp (+5)

ProfessorCirno wrote:
There is a quiver out there somewhere that creates arrows of x material and y enchantment depending on the quiver. You could turn that into a bandoleer and be on your way, I'd think. Quiver of Anariel, I think it's called.

Found it. double the enhancement bonus to add weapon enhancements seems fair enough... but the base 28000 for normal arrows is a bit much.

Of course arrows will be used in conjunction with a magic weapon to double up on magical abilities, where that is not the case with shuriken, so I will not be getting as much bang for my buck. I don't really want to make my shuriken uber weapons as they will always be my secondary attack, I just want them to stay viable.

What I really want is a item that acts like a bow or sling for a shuriken that can receive weapon enhancements.

I was hoping to build an item that would reduce book keeping (& perhaps save a little gp in the long run) but for 20,000 gp I could get 500 or so +1 shuriken., which is close enough to an endless supply.

At high levels I could see picking up something to augment damage at a high price, as the cost of further enhancements increase exponentially, but that's a long way of for this character.

Hmm.. I suppose one doesn't want to set a precedent at low levels that can become broken at high levels.


How about using the Amulet of mighty fists as a base for pricing, which would give an initial +1 at 5000gp, maxing out at +5 for 125,000?

I understand (from searching the web, I don't have the book) that in the Magic Item Compendium ,Pg 194, there are Gloves of endless javelins that create temporary +1 force javelins for 7000 Gp. This is quite a bit cheaper then 19,518, but perhaps it has limitations I don't know about?

How would you price an item that adds a temporary magical enhancement bonus to shurikens as they are thrown?

They could be gloves, and thus take a body slot, or a bandoleer and be slot-less.

I think initiative order is something to take into account. Even if the caster is going to escape on his turn he will take a -4 to dexterity (-2 to AC) until then so with a little luck other party members are going to get some hits in before his turn comes up. Furthermore any action/spell used escaping is not used buffing/de-buffing/attacking.

Dustfather wrote:
Actually on page 179 in the Advanced Player's Guide, under the Temple Sword text, it states Monks are proficient with the temple sword.

Really? Cool, I missed that! My monk is going shopping. :)

Just noting that you got a simular issue with power attack.

Obviously you have to use your actual BAB bonus when qualifying for these feats. But once you have them...

If the feat just kicks in on you full attack I would have no hesitation using the monks new effective BAB from flurry, but as the effects from Combat expertise are still in effect until the start of your next turn and you might make lower BAB attacks of opportunity it is simpler to use your actual BAB to calculate the effects of the feat.

Seraphimpunk wrote:
see that list? see how its complete ( at the time of printing ) and how other suppliments sometimes publish "monk" weapons? hmmh maybe because they're expanding the list of what monks can use?

Don't know about the campaign setting but in the APG the monks list is expanded slightly. The brass knuckles and cestus, in there description, say that monks are proficient with them. The temple sword on the other hand is an monk weapon with no note about the monk being proficient, so you would have to spend a feat to use it effectively.

I've had some success in games by actually taunting the enemy in character. If I am creative enough in insulting the npc's mother the DM will often have the character retaliate. I suppose taunting the DM might work too. (perhaps too well!)

Squidmasher wrote:

I'd say that any race with powerful build deserves at least +1 LA. I don't really care if it gets other racial features or has a ton of weaknesses, powerful build is insanely good.

You are probably right, I had only glanced over the smaller die sizes, which work out one point damage more. The jump up for the larger die weapons are dramatically improved, almost doubled in some cases.... pretty unbalancing I guess.

I'm making a human monk with some half-giant heritage.

would powerful build be a fair trade for the human bonus feat and extra skill point?

Using large sized weapons (without added reach) is very powerful, while the +1 to CMB & CMD not so much.

Personally I always liked UMD using cha as it's stat. I picture it like bluff - but you are lying to the universe in general - fooling it into believing that you are the right class/level/alignment to use this item.

I like my fantasy worlds pagan and full of life. Nothing happens by accident... The world is living and breathing and gravity itself can be fooled if you are persuasive enough.

richard develyn wrote:

This is the only example I know of of *ultimate* force.


There you go, no problem then. An immovable object is only problematic if you introduce an unstoppable object. :-D

It's a supernatural ability that draws from the monks connection to the earth. I would say the monk is only immovable in relation to the planet then, introduce a force capable of moving the whole planet* and it should be able to move the monk as well.


Yes supernatural abilities are godly, but in a cosmology where the heroes can eventually defeat the gods themselves, a few godly abilities here and there are appropriate.

(*assuming your cosmology has planets, not just a material plane connecting to other planes at the edges, in which case moving it is not on option, destroying it on the other hand...)

Phonzy wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:
I think grappling is a good secondary focus for Monks (since they can qualify for the greater version - and grappling is something that can be initiated with a standard action - for when Flurry isn't an option), but Str based Monks are better at grappling too, and grappling is never going to be your regular tactic in combat...it's too situational.
I'm curious what people think of Improved/Greater Sunder... granted, Improved isn't available as a bonus feat, but it doesn't require Combat Expertise and it's flurryable, so... green choice?

A lot of people don't like sunder because you are destroying your loot! I know in 3.5 selling +1 long-swords was a big part of our income. Also: you can't sunder natural weapons so it becomes situational.

Now I think it is easier to repair objects/weapons in Pathfinder with spells, but I don't know if they are cost-effective or make sunder a better option or not.

Louis IX wrote:

You also have Cornugon Smash, which gives you free Intimidate checks on opponents you hit with Power Attack - although making opponents shaken for a large number of rounds (damage dealt) is MUCH more powerful than the regular Intimidate check.

To add to your monk's "intimidating prowess", you also have other feats which offer great synergy:
- Shatter Defences (shaken opponents are flat-footed - which is great by itself) <- numerous prerequisites, too bad
- Medusa's Wrath (two more attacks at full BAB against flat-footed opponents) <- also numerous prereq, but is a monk feat

I hadn't seen Cornugon smash, nice catch! Though it would only be better then enforcer when opponents are immune to non-lethal damage, might be too situational for this character. Then again I wouldn't have to use unarmed strike which opens up possibilities too...

I think I'll plan to take Cornugon smash once my brass knuckles really outshine my unarmed attack in later levels, combat doesn't last that many rounds then in any case.


PS I really like Shatter Defences too, but as you say prereqs aktbt!

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