Monk, Flurry, and Combat Expertise


Rules Questions

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.

When a monk uses flurry of blows his base attack is considered higher, would you use the flurry base attack or the non flurry base attack bonus when using combat expertise?

Combat Expertise wrote:
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.
Monk wrote:
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level.

A level 4 monk would he get +1 AC when flurrying or +2?


OgeXam wrote:


A level 4 monk would he get +1 AC when flurrying or +2?

Its an interesting question. Likewise what penalty to hit does he take when making AOOs that round?

-James

Liberty's Edge

OgeXam wrote:

When a monk uses flurry of blows his base attack is considered higher, would you use the flurry base attack or the non flurry base attack bonus when using combat expertise?

Combat Expertise wrote:
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.
Monk wrote:
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level.

A level 4 monk would he get +1 AC when flurrying or +2?

For simplicity I just used my monks actual BAB not his flurry attack bonus, even if I was using combat expertise while using FoB. The feat says BAB, so I stuck with BAB.


While I don't think it would do any harm to let the monk use his flurry bonus, as written I believe it is a no go.


When he's flurrying, his BAB is +4. He'd get the full bonus and penalty. When his BAB resets, he'd lose the full bonus and full penalty in favor of the lesser bonuses.

So, you can flurry and use Combat Expertise during a flurry. During the flurry, he has -2 to hit/+2 to AC. Once the flurry is over, he has -1 to hit/+1 to AC. Works the same way for power attack, I'd reckon.

At least, that's how I see it.

Liberty's Edge

Ice Titan wrote:

When he's flurrying, his BAB is +4. He'd get the full bonus and penalty. When his BAB resets, he'd lose the full bonus and full penalty in favor of the lesser bonuses.

So, you can flurry and use Combat Expertise during a flurry. During the flurry, he has -2 to hit/+2 to AC. Once the flurry is over, he has -1 to hit/+1 to AC. Works the same way for power attack, I'd reckon.

At least, that's how I see it.

Nope, under Flurry of Blows it says "For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus". Combat Expertise says Base Attack Bonus, when you look at Table 3-10: The Monk you will clearly see a column marked BAB and one marked Flurry of Blows attack bonus. They are two different things.


Just noting that you got a simular issue with power attack.

Obviously you have to use your actual BAB bonus when qualifying for these feats. But once you have them...

If the feat just kicks in on you full attack I would have no hesitation using the monks new effective BAB from flurry, but as the effects from Combat expertise are still in effect until the start of your next turn and you might make lower BAB attacks of opportunity it is simpler to use your actual BAB to calculate the effects of the feat.


The official ruling by Nethys a while back was that power attack and flurry don't combine powers for great justice. I imagine combat expertise is the same.


urodivoi wrote:
Obviously you have to use your actual BAB bonus when qualifying for these feats. But once you have them...

Once you have them your BAB is still what it is. BAB in a single fixed number that can only changed by gaining class levels or racial HD. What the monk receives for his flurry of blows is a kind of 'effective BAB' that qualifies for a single purpose - his flurry of blows. All other feats that use the BAB value would not use this 'effective' value - no more than they would use the modified value after Str/Dex bumps, Weapon Focus, or anything else that raises the actual modifier to land an attack.

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