Damiel

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Thanks for continuing the discussion, I'll answer the questions below:

1. What do you think of the one-boon-of-a-type rule? Do you feel like you miss being able to toss multiple blessings at a problem?

I feel like it was an improvement. It definitely made allies more valuable than just using them to explore. It also made teaming up together more attractive. True, we could not help a character making a check with a skill they didn't have easy by rolling 10d4 like in the old days, so we had more frequent failures, but with the improvements to armor and items, those failures did not seem as catastrophic as in the past. The thinning of boons on a set schedule also made the new boons come up more often than in past sets, so you didn't feel as disappointed if the wizard failed to acquire the latest sword - it would be back again soon. (at one point in Adventure 4, our deck of weapons in the vault was only 12 cards)

2. How much did your group use the Avenging mechanic? I feel like it's something that people often forget about, but it can be VERY useful in some situations.

I'll admit we forgot to use it a few times early on but later in the game we actually PLANNED to use it (Especially the scenario "Belly of the Beast" or whatever it was called - where the same character had to face-plant against the villain and then be the one to beat him later.)

3) How large is your party?

Typically 4, but with CotCT we are running 3. We thought it would move much faster than with 4 in previous sets but as explained above, with the increased complexity it actually is taking longer.

4) Which blessings do you find are better - the old ones (where you could custom-tailor your party with double-dice blessings for tasks the party is weak at) or the new ones (where you get a bunch of effect, but very few overlaps - so you're unlikely to have just the "right" one for any given task; not to mention most of them seem to add a single die AND they can't be easily stacked)? How much did that impact your enjoyment of the game?

I think a nice mix of old style and new would be good. A few (or one) of the old "2 dice" style and then a good mix of the new variable blessings would make it interesting but still not allow people to stockpile 5 classic blessings of abadar and trivialize barriers (yes, we were guilty of doing that in the past... EVERYBODY had a blessing of abadar.) We did find that the "Freely" blessings were moderately more valuable. At least then you could hit a boss with 2 single die blessings. With the improved functionality of many of the other boons, we were using more items, allies, and even armors on checks so we were more thoughtful about our card choices (Hmmmm, this armor reduces more damage, but that one has a power to add/reroll a die.)


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I thought I would jot down some thoughts I had since our group is almost finished with CotCT. Just for background, our group has been playing since RotR and has around 30 complete play-throughs including all of the base sets, most of the seasons, and several of the home brew adventures like Shield of Rannik. In no particular order:

1) We really like the new Core rules and adjustment of boons and powers to be more helpful. Instead of each adventure being a "blessing fest," characters are now encouraged to diversity, which is more interesting. It also leads to more interesting combos and discoveries as different powers and boons interact in fun ways.

2) Hero Points are AWESOME. Getting to chose the order of your feats (and generally get them earlier in the scenario if you want) was a huge win for us. And the rerolls at critical moments were invaluable.

3) The base was an excellent idea and we were very excited to have a "safe spot" to run to if needed. In reality, we didn't really use it much. A few times it was nice to go clear a scourge or use some downtime to chase one of the supporters that givs

4) The fleshed out story is great and we are really enjoying the theme. Our only fault is that we only get together every 4-6 weeks and so we occasionally forget who certain characters are. Some of this may come from the stylized names they are given (Who was Count Fritzelfratz again? I can't remember. Flip back to the last chapter. Nevermind, that was duke BumbleBlart)

5) The new card layout is growing on us, but the font size is still a bit small, even for young eyes. You can't easily discern cards across the table like you could before. With the huge variety of boons and blessings, we have not gotten to a point where we can recognize a card and powers by it's art from across the table. Each card must be picked up and read by each person every time, which can slow things down a bit.

6) The pace of the game has slowed down quite a bit. I think RotR was a nice place to start but after a while it was very predictable and we could blow through an adventure in 30-45 minutes. WotR took this to a whole new extreme and I think that was the slowest moving set. (So many checks!) In my experience, CotCT is the 2nd slowest moving for us so far (Still a lot of checks! But at least I'm not dying in adventure zero) I think one thing contributing to this is that banes are pretty much all non-vanilla now. I remember in RotR getting the Ogre. No powers, no abilities, just a flat 14 that was pretty hard on a new character. The Ogre and the Shadow were 2 of the most memorable monsters from the base set and they weren't that complicated. Now almost ever monster has a BYA, AYA, or While you act, or some other thing that needs to be resolved. It can really bog down turns and we actually found ourselves getting excited when we hit something simpler like a zombie (which has also increased in complexity from previous sets, but is still kind of a French-vanilla compared to other banes.) I think variety in banes is a good thing, but I think it went too far in that direction for this set. Need some non-complex banes mixed in to make the complex ones stand out. Each bane does not need a 10 minute situation meeting to address.

7) Related to the above, there is a LOT to keep up with at a time. The hour has a power to remember (and as above, you often can't read it across the table), the Harrow suit has an ongoing power (we forgot this often), most scenarios have some special rule(s) to keep up with, and of course scourges (not directly in front of each player due to the new token system, leading to players have to reach across and re-read the cards.) If this is meant as a point of entry for new players, I can see where this might be a challenge. Even as veterans at time it was wearying to keep up with all the juggling rules.

Overall I really like Core and the direction the game has taken. CotCT may be a little too busy at times and can bog the game down in multiple layers of complexity. I know a lot of hard core fans really enjoy this aspect but a few in our group do not. We were glad to see the options for adjusting difficulty and gave a few of those a try. We were able to shorten some scenarios but the overall feeling of "I'm keeping up with 4 things in my head at all times" did not lighten so I don't know if that's the right solution for us.

Thanks for reading my 2 cents. I'm interested in hearing others' take on the new set.


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There are lots of great support spells that Hakon can make use of. And since he discards them all (no chance of recharging without spending serious resources) That cure or Aid is usually in the discard pile to snatch up whenever he needs to get it back. Also, the acid spell that does a flat 3d6+9 and works on multiple checks is perfect for him in those cases where he's caught without a weapon or fighting something that does not like to be hit with melee. We are on adventure 5 of CotCT and finding him to be great at holding his own and supporting the party too.


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I have also noticed that some of the card art is so dark that I can't actually tell what the picture is supposed to be. I'm not at home at the moment but was wondering if others had the same experience


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I agree that I would like to see a decent number of new cards, not just reprints of all the old stuff. I understand this set needs to appeal to OP, but I think those of us who use these decks to tweak our box would love some new boons to mix in and keep things fresh.


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Best of luck in your Nursing career!


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Thanks Hawk!


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Very excited about this one! My wife has pointed out, "You have been excited about all of them," but the design team has really been coming out with some fun and creative mechanics in recent sets.


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I am really excited about this deck! I think my wife and I will be fighting over who gets to play an oracle in our next new adventure path.

(She once collected all the spyglasses in RotR just within her own character deck.)


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I had a great time playing Alahazra in S&S and and drooling over the class deck version of her. Our group is about to pick up Season of the Shackles for the first time so this deck is perfectly timed.

Ryanshow, how in the world did you pick up enough divine cards to blow through 18 cards in 1 turn? (Was it something to do with that scenario's particular setup?) I've done some serious shenanigans with Alahazra's boon encountering but always got tripped up on weapons (STR or Dex) and armor (Con). While blessings and divine spells were easy to pick up when they did appear, I only encountered them a small portion of the time.


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I'm also leaning in the direction of "no" based on cosined and Andrew's reasoning.

It also doesn't feel like you are playing the parrot "on" the check, but instead using a power after the check to modify the result.

Interested in the official ruling on this one.


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The PACG organizer from Broken Token is currently on sale for 16.19 plus shipping!

I just grabbed another pair.


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I'm jealous of that turntable!

I made an extremely cheap option using 2 products from Home depot. An 18" pine round and a set of bearings. Total cost was $10.

They have a 24" round but it would be too big for our rectangular table (players on the long sides would have too little room in front of them)

Links to products:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Edge-Glued-Round-Common-1-in-x-17-3-4- in-Actual-1-0-in-x-17-75-in-680435/202017011

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-6-in-Square-Lazy-Susan-Turntable-with-4 00-lb-Load-Rating-49548/203661089

If I did it again I would stain it or glue some felt onto the top surface. I did put some little rubber feet on the bottom of the bearing set to keep the bottom half stationary (and to prevent scratching the table.)

A cheap option for those without creative talent like myself :)


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One of our regular players will often whittle down his hand to a few cards and hesitate, usually asking out loud "Should I riks 1 more explore?"

We have learned that any time this happens, the answer should always be "NO" as this is when he will stumble across something really nasty that usually impacts the entire party. This is also when everyone else gets stingy with their blessings and let's the YOLO avenger deal with his own mess.


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I echo Hawkmoon's comment; Accessories like these that keep everything organized are a big help to OCD guys like myself.

Thanks for sharing your work!


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Thanks so much for checking into this!


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I placed an order (# in subject) a few minutes ago and was having problems with my PC. I think the page refreshed and I was worried that the order was submitted twice. I did receive 2 confirmation/shipping emails soon after but both had order # 3804925 in the title. Can you verify that only 1 order was submitted?

Thank you for your time.


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I think this is fantastic news. I am a huge fan, and our group has enjoyed all of the products released so far (even wrath, which kicked us in the teeth a few times but we found it more enjoyable with deck 1 and much more fun at deck 2.)

We each have a list of the other characters we want to play and sometimes we have felt pressured keep up with the release schedule. This extra time will be great for revisiting all 3 sets with class deck characters or combinations of characters we haven't tried yet. The feeling of "hurry up or fall behind" was starting to hit us so this news is perfectly timed.

Thanks, always, for listening to your fans.


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I enjoyed this thread as well and missed it the first time around. I build a pretty cheap (about $12 worth of parts) lazy susan for our group out of a 20" pine circle, bearings, and some rubber feet.

It definately makes reaching all of the locations easy. If I can find one a little bigger I might try again and go a little more fancy.


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I am also one of the customers that did not get the promo card with AD2 pack. Order # #3599028.

Thank you.


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Jimmy_Weasel - No need to apologize. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the game and to comment on the play-style that is best for them. I don't take anything personally, especially in a group forum.

I agree with bbKbag about adjusting the difficulty. We never felt cheaty when we upped the difficulty on our own, but we all feel a little dirty about dumbing the game down.

I am glad to hear the feedback about AD1 being better. Perhaps we should just jump right into that next time we play.

I also hope Wrath will be survivable for sub-optimal party choices, as several of our players don't pick characters for power, but for thematic flare or just outright fun. The same goes for some of the boons as there are clearly more powerful choices you can put in your deck as you advance, but sometimes doing so makes you say goodbye to a really fun flavorful card that isn't as much of a tactical advantage. I hope the difficulty does not push players to into narrow deck choices, but we have 5 more adventure paths so time will tell.

I'm really glad we are having this discussion as a community and also glad to see the dev team so involved with our feedback.


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I have been enjoying the discussions in different threads about the difficulty of WoTR.

Several of the commenters have shared experiences that echo exactly what I'm feeling, while others defend the game saying that players need to play smarter, adapt, adjust their play style, or just suck it up and expect to die a bunch over the course of the game.

Our regular groups are by no means inexperienced and most would fall into the category of moderate to hard core gamers. Some enjoy a tough challenge more than other, but above all we get together to have fun.

RoTR was extremely fun and got us all addicted to the game. We played through over and over. We got to play pretty much any characters we wanted. Want 3 fighters and a bard...sure thing! Want a group of all casters... we can wing it. Want to up the challenge a little, lets add an extra location.

S&S came along and upped the game. It did take some time to adapt but we were still having fun. It was also the first set where we failed a few times along the way, and I think that is a good thing. We also had to be a bit more prudent with strategy. People generally got to play the character they wanted, but we had some playthroughs were people had to compromise and round out the party a bit better. We never got stuck on a scenario that beat us over and over until we were ready to put the game down (Which is good, since we have to get people together from 2+ hours away for our game weekends, we tend to marathon non-stop for 2 days.) Again, even through the challenge we had fun.

I'm holding out my firm opinion on Wrath until more comes out, but we tried the base scenarios and got wiped out pretty fast. Ok... reality check, we can't approach this game the same way we did the other two. Lets work out a more balanced party (Sorry to my wife, she got stuck playing the healer that nobody else wanted to play but we obviously NEEDED to have one to survive.) Now that we picked some different characters that balanced each other out a bit better we tried again (with some grumbling that not everybody got to play the character they wanted.) We made it past the first scenario and had a death and failed the 2nd. Like many other posters have commented, we really can't think of what we could have done differently to "play better" or "more strategicly." The banes just beat us down over and over and over. I felt the casters had a very hard time. This was the first weekend that we got fed up with the game and turned pathfinder weekend into "what else do you have to play?" I also worry that if people feel forced into playing certain characters, they will enjoy it less. The game should be reasonably achievable with a wide variety of parties and not just the A team. A team of mismatched characters should be able to still get through the adventure, though it may be a bit more challenging...but it should be doable! Our group has no moral dilemma with house ruling the game harder if we feel it needs it...but we feel kinda weak and worthless if we have to house rule it easier (Geez..we had to play with training wheels on...we suck!)

We are giving it a fresh start in a few weeks when we can get together again and I really hope we can get through the adventure AND still feel like we are having fun. I realize that a lot of the hard-core players on the forum thrive in this environment where it isn't fun until you beat the thing that everyone else is having a hard time beating... but that is a vocal minority of a diverse group of gamers with different needs. A very small percentage will actually come here and voice their opinion and I hope they are considered in the projects to come. Is Wrath is intended to be the "hard mode" to please the top-tier hardcore players who have lots and lots of free time to play adventures over and over? Only time will tell...it's still early.

I haven't commented much in these forums, but i've been a pathfinder player and enthusiast since RotR released. I've introduced all of my gaming friends to pathfinder, and it is pretty much my "go to" game for the last year. I read the forums almost every day, hanging on every word and development. Mike and his team are top notch and I've never seen a more responsive group of developers/designers. I have high hopes for the rest of Wrath and future sets to be challenging but balanced; and above all, FUN!


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I'm going to agree with Raynair on this one. Our gaming group of 4 has been through RotR and SS multiple times with a wide variety of parties and so I feel we have a pretty good grasp of the game. We tried the first Wrath adventure tonight and just got blown away. Had someone die after taking their second turn (I'm sure turning up 2 Demon Hordes before it got back around to him didn't help.)

We chalked it up to bad luck and tried some new characters and just barely made it through. I didn't feel that rush of accomplishment I usually feel when squeezing a win by a narrow margin. I just felt glad it was over. First time I've played this game and realized I was actually not having fun.

I've laughed off bad luck, bad rolls, bad location/bane combos in the other sets but wrath just keeps kicking you while you are down.

I'm going to shelf the game for the weekend and come back to it next time our group gets together but our first impression was that the difficulty got cranked up a little too much right out of the gate. I'm guessing the epic powers will help combat the epic face-stomping your average delivers to you, but we haven't got there yet!

Our group are fairly hardcore gamers but so far, wrath has been a little much for us. I'm sad because pathfinder is pretty much the reason we all get together to game.