Inconsistent colours on card backs in Core Set and CotCT.


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion


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Does anyone else have card backs that are noticeably different shades of red?


This came up a few weeks ago on BGG, and it's possible that all/most copies are affected. A sample image: link. (Disclaimer: My copy is affected, but it isn't nearly as bad as the linked image - which may be an artifact of the image lighting.)

I'm really enjoying the new Core, but there do seem to be some odd quality control and/or production issues. A new printing company, perhaps?

Issues include: Creased/stamped tokens, images that are occasionally too dark (to the point where the image is difficult to discern), and the color back issue. And once in a blue moon cards stick together and have to be replaced, but that was true in pre-Core products as well. In the Ultimate decks, in particular.

There's also the 60s acid freakout motif for the tokens, but that's another matter entirely. :P

I honestly don't notice the card back (or any other) issues when actually playing, and I don't sleeve my cards. But it would be better if these issues didn't exist, of course. Especially since the Core cards will be integrated into the Vaults of all future campaigns.


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wkover wrote:
This came up a few weeks ago on BGG, and it's possible that all/most copies are affected. A sample image: link. (Disclaimer: My copy is affected, but it isn't nearly as bad as the linked image - which may be an artifact of the image lighting.)

My copy of Core has similar problems, but mainly on the front side:

a) Cards of different levels and the same type often have different shade of colour - e.g. dark blue and purplish blue on spells.
b) A few cards have a tiny splotch of red on the back, my Shortbow also has a large red splotch.
c) Some cards (Armor of one level, I think) have very thin font of the powers.
Nothing of the above (with exception of Shortbow, but I can live with that) affects the gameplay in any way and so far, I've enjoyed the game a lot.

Just a funny story to close - while playing DD 1C, we had to close Chambers, which proved to be really difficult. It turns out that a Ghoul, Homunculus henchman and few other cards were there, but our party unsuccessfully chased a Racoon all over the place instead. We met it at least 7 times due to Chambers' power, sometimes three times in a row (with different players shuffling). Pesky pet with huge Survival check difficulty - and the ghoul and homunculus were probably laughing at us.


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That’s hilarious, Jenceslav!

I’ve got slightly creased markers, a few spells with colour variations, and two cards (including Ezren) with thin white ‘scratches’ where no printing is. None of it has affected my gameplay at all.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

It's the same printer we've used since the second printing of Rise of the Runelords.

The "wrinkles" on the markers are caused by their die-cutting process—they're all like that.

There's always a little variance in color, but it shouldn't generally affect gameplay. The variance in the linked photo is definitely more than I like to see, but the poster who put that image up did specifically mention that the difference appears more significant in the photo than in real life.

If you run into something that does affect gameplay, let our customer service department know!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'm not sure how much it affects gameplay at the moment. I know quite reliably when certain cards are on top of my deck. Though I am currently playing Valeros so most of the time the top of my deck is something I put there myself...
I'll try take a picture of the colour difference, I would say it is similar to the linked picture (if I had it under bright light). Put it this way, we normally play in a pub with "atmospheric" lighting and I noticed it then. Given time I would be able to reliably pick out certain cards when they are in locations (well know for certain they aren't other cards). Given the amount future adventure paths will rely on the core set this is likely to become a gameplay issue.


Vic, it does affect gameplay though. Yeah, the front of the cards being different shades is annoying but that doesn't affect it. What does affect it is that some backs are much lighter and it's gotten to a point where I know when a certain card is on the top of my deck. A player shouldn't have access to that knowledge. Yes, I try to play honourably and not factor that into any decisions I make, but it still affects gameplay.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I played four scenarios before I read the BGG review. I thought "Ha, I guess I lucked out," then actually looked at my cards and realized I had some red and some brown backs. It does seem spread out over the card types, so there's not any definite "Oh, this must be a weapon."

My Crimson Throne cards do seem uniform in color.


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Scott Hall wrote:

I played four scenarios before I read the BGG review. I thought "Ha, I guess I lucked out," then actually looked at my cards and realized I had some red and some brown backs. It does seem spread out over the card types, so there's not any definite "Oh, this must be a weapon."

My Crimson Throne cards do seem uniform in color.

It's one of those things that once you've noticed it you can't unnotice it. I don't think I can predict an exact card but looking over the cards now there is enough of a difference for me to reliably say "it's not a story bane" for quite a few cards, in fact I could go so far as to say it's almost certainly a boon (which is obviously not information I should have).


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I have also noticed that some of the card art is so dark that I can't actually tell what the picture is supposed to be. I'm not at home at the moment but was wondering if others had the same experience


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That would be my one of my few complaint. Locations seem to be especially dark and hard to make out. I don't want to critique if it's an art style choice, but if it was up for a vote, I would say lighten the dark art.


Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ithaqua47 wrote:
Vic, it does affect gameplay though. Yeah, the front of the cards being different shades is annoying but that doesn't affect it. What does affect it is that some backs are much lighter and it's gotten to a point where I know when a certain card is on the top of my deck. A player shouldn't have access to that knowledge. Yes, I try to play honourably and not factor that into any decisions I make, but it still affects gameplay.

That’s why Vic asked you to contact customer service. Paizo’s CS department is amazing and I wouldn’t be surprised if they shipped you replacement cards if you provided them a list of cards that you can tell apart from the rest with your naked eye so that you no longer have that issue. Their contact info can be found at the very bottom of every page on this site (scroll all the way down into the footer)


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skizzerz wrote:
Ithaqua47 wrote:
Vic, it does affect gameplay though. Yeah, the front of the cards being different shades is annoying but that doesn't affect it. What does affect it is that some backs are much lighter and it's gotten to a point where I know when a certain card is on the top of my deck. A player shouldn't have access to that knowledge. Yes, I try to play honourably and not factor that into any decisions I make, but it still affects gameplay.
That’s why Vic asked you to contact customer service. Paizo’s CS department is amazing and I wouldn’t be surprised if they shipped you replacement cards if you provided them a list of cards that you can tell apart from the rest with your naked eye so that you no longer have that issue. Their contact info can be found at the very bottom of every page on this site (scroll all the way down into the footer)

I think the problem is when you have at least 3 different shades for card backs then you have no way to know which is the correct shade. So how do we know which ones need replacing? I can take pictures but phone cameras usually have terrible colour accuracy.


skizzerz wrote:
That’s why Vic asked you to contact customer service. Paizo’s CS department is amazing and I wouldn’t be surprised if they shipped you replacement cards if you provided them a list of cards that you can tell apart from the rest with your naked eye so that you no longer have that issue.

I agree 100% that Paizo's customer service is amazing. They've always replaced my marked and missing cards in the past.

This time the problem is a bit more dramatic, however, in that my Core cards are almost evenly split: half are light red and half are dark red, and the difference is pretty clear to the naked eye. (Disclaimer: If I'm looking, which I usually am not.) And the problem seems to be affecting most (all?) copies of the Core, not just a handful of misprints.

If I asked CS for replacements, I'm guessing that I'd end up with more light/dark cards. I wasn't going to ask, though, since I'm not terribly worried about the issue. Attentive folks who don't sleeve aren't as happy as they could be, however. It's particularly a problem with the character decks and getting to know which cards are lighter/darker. And when Core and CotCT cards are mixed, it's only Core cards that are darker - I think. Finally, all of my proxies are darker (not lighter); I have two different copies of the Core set purchased at different locations, and this is true of both.

I'm guessing that the majority of folks on this site sleeve all their PACG cards, which is why the issue didn't come up earlier.

Anyway, speaking only for myself - if Paizo can't do anything about it now - it would be reassurring to know that the issue (including the overly dark card art, if possible) will be corrected in future printings.

P.S. The issue only seems to be with the Core set, not Crimson Throne - is that right? At least my copy of CotCT looks clean.


Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I have to admit I didn’t notice the issue on my own set because I sleeve all of my cards using opaque-backed sleeves. So, I thought it was limited to a handful of cards rather than something that impacted wide swaths of cards.


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Was there suposed to be promo cards in the shipment? Have not looked my cards so far... if there should be promos, what Are they? I supose that I did only get those base cards.


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The promos are:

The Tall Knife (Weapon P3)
Embiggen (Spell P2)
Corpse Plate (Armor P3)
The Unveiling (Item P2)
Asyra (Ally P5)
The Real Rabbit Prince (Blessing P1)


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Hannibal_pjv wrote:
Was there suposed to be promo cards in the shipment? Have not looked my cards so far... if there should be promos, what Are they? I supose that I did only get those base cards.

Were you on Subscription?

The free promos brother tyler listed were in a small plastic bag in with the shipping box of mine


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Matsu Kurisu wrote:
Hannibal_pjv wrote:
Was there suposed to be promo cards in the shipment? Have not looked my cards so far... if there should be promos, what Are they? I supose that I did only get those base cards.

Were you on Subscription?

The free promos brother tyler listed were in a small plastic bag in with the shipping box of mine

I am only half-finished unpacking my cards. I unpacked Core and haven't sleeved them, since I was travelling for weeks and they're all currently still at work.

I haven't unsleeved Curse yet, and I was assuming that the promo cards were in there since I hadn't seen them yet... because I didn't get any pack outside of the Core Set or Curse, and I definitely got my product as part of the subscription (points to the little line of text under my username.

That's worrying. If I confirm they're not in Curse, I'm going to have to go to Customer Support on this. (If you're certain they're not in the Curse box, then that means I never got them...)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

They were definitely in my Core Set box.

If you have to go through Customer Support, I doubt you'll have a problem (points to the little line of text under your username ;) ). I've always had very positive experiences with Paizo's Customer Support team.


Brother Tyler wrote:

They were definitely in my Core Set box.

If you have to go through Customer Support, I doubt you'll have a problem (points to the little line of text under your username ;) ). I've always had very positive experiences with Paizo's Customer Support team.

I ordered the sets directly from Paizo (I recently moved to USA - temporarily - and fortunately, Washington is just 3/4 states away :)) and received a big cardboard box with both Core and Curse boxes, and a small packet of 5 promo cards separately :)


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I did not have this problem with the Core Set at all. But I've moved onto Curse of the Crimson Throne and as far as I can tell every single CoTCT card has a different colored back compared to the core set cards. I noticed when I was shuffling two CoTCT banes with two Core Set proxies, it's different enough that I can tell which ones are the story banes without doubt. I double checked now that I've noticed it and I can also pick out all of the CoTCT cards in player decks, locations, and the blessing decks, just from the back.

example photo. The two on the left are the CoTCT story banes, the ones on the right are the core proxies.

I'm not sure what to do. Replacing an entire expansion seems like a waste to me, and I'm not even sure which one of the sets is actually off color. I'm probably going to have to unsleeve the entire box and do it over with opaque sleeves, which is a huge bummer. I'm loving the gameplay of the new version but the component quality has really disappointed me.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Just to be clear, the wrapped pack of 6 promo cards would NOT be inside the actual shrink-wrapped products, but it would be in the same mailing carton as your subscription shipment.

If you didn't get it, let CS know.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

As for color variation, each of the individually wrapped packs of 110 cards comes from a single press sheet. While variance between press sheets unfortunately happens sometimes, variance within a single press sheet is a lot less likely. Which means that if you have a group of cards that are too light or too dark, that group is most likely exactly 110 cards (or a multiple of 110, if you got really unlucky).

So if you can tell CS that (for example) the cardbacks on the pack that includes all of the villains are too dark, they can replace just that pack for you.


Vic Wertz wrote:

As for color variation, each of the individually wrapped packs of 110 cards comes from a single press sheet. While variance between press sheets unfortunately happens sometimes, variance within a single press sheet is a lot less likely. Which means that if you have a group of cards that are too light or too dark, that group is most likely exactly 110 cards (or a multiple of 110, if you got really unlucky).

So if you can tell CS that (for example) the cardbacks on the pack that includes all of the villains are too dark, they can replace just that pack for you.

In my Core, there are approximately three different shades of colours, sometimes noticeable at the front (no big deal) and sometimes at the back. The colouring is pretty scattered across card types, so no big deal. The main example are Monsters - one group has orange coloured border and title, second group dark orange, third group almost red. Printing errors on Shortsword's back, a little on Lightning Touch and almost imperceptible on Levitate. From 400+ cards, that's not a bad score, but also not great.

I do not consider contacting CS and so far I've enjoyed the game.

Minor imperfections are there to remind us that nothing is perfect :)


I must have gotten unlucky then, I guess. I double checked just to be sure and all of my core set cards are the darker shade, while all of my CotCT cards are that distinctly different lighter shade. I'll contact CS, though I'm still not sure which set is actually off color


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Howdy! I see there is already a thread for this so I will put my 2 cents in. I called Paizo customer support when I opened up my CotCT and the card backs were all a much different shade than the core set. They were kind enough to send me another copy (yay!).

However all of the cards in the second copy of CotCT were a third completely different shade of the reddish/maroon back. When I followed up on this I was told the following:

"I spoke to our Chief Technical Officer, who is leading the ACG project, and he let me know that each plastic wrapped deck is made from a single sheet that could have the wrong coloring on it. He said it should not affect play..."

And then when I asked to speak with him directly I was told to post here, hence my post.

I want to address two major things:

1. This 100% affects gameplay. Anyone who says otherwise has never played the game. I will give one major example and then, if needbe, am happy to give more. In the event that the villain is defeated in a location then we take his card, shuffle it in with blessings so the total number of cards equals the number of still open locations. My blessings were mostly from the Core set where the villain, if I am playing CotCT are not, and thus is very distinguishable when distributing them onto the location decks. Sure I can close my eyes and try to slip them under or whatever, but this is a major impact in gameplay.

2. I don't know what Paizo's process for manufacturing or QA is, but I do not specifically believe this is Paizo's fault per se. I do believe that it is Paizo's opportunity to work with their printer to ensure that there is consistency to the shade on the card backs. That being said, prior to this I have not had any issue, and I own and have played through all of the other adventure card games when some scenarios came out much later and yet were able to be printed with the same shade on the card back.

I am happy to give more examples of how this affects gameplay. My hope is that Paizo works with their printer/QA to remediate and prevent this error.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

My personal set doesn't seem to have this issue, or at least not super noticeable though i haven't actually had a chance to play it yet.

At gen con though one of the sets being used for events is massively affected. The proxy cards in particular are all different shades than the rest of the core cards. And all the core cards are different than the Curse cards. So you have 3 different shades, and the lightest ones end up being the proxies and look like they were left out in the sun for a year and are completely color bleached. There was no missing this difference and once you made the connection between what the differences meant then that's pretty hard to ignore.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Just stating my two cents...

Yes, there's a discernible difference between the backs of various cards in my copy of Core and Curse. It's very evident (to me) under a variety of lighting, and very evident to the people on the table. I believe all of my Curse cards are of a different shade to all Core cards, and there may or may not be other differences among the card types and the like.

I have not personally kept track of which shades of colors correspond to which card type or set, because I don't wish to give myself any unfair advantage - I don't spend time analyzing this and I simply ignore what the color is or isn't. It doesn't impact my personal play much, but I can confirm that it exists.


And I can testify that I have at least 4 shades of colour in one card type - with all / almost all cards for a given level in Core having different colour than the other levels both in the front and in the back, Curse cards having yet another colour. As it is pretty mixed up within types and Core/Curse, there is almost no problem in that. Well, apart from a big red splotch on Short Sword's back and small one on Lightning Touch.


As an update: The color differences didn't affect our Core gameplay much. But now that we've moved on to Crimson Throne, the color variation makes a big difference - in particular with the proxies.

The backs of the Core proxies (in my set) are quite dark. The CotCT story banes, on the other hand, are fairly light. It's nearly impossible to seed the location decks secretly, as the position of the villain is always obvious. We've given up, actually, so instead we only use proxies and roll each time we encounter a proxy to determine which card (villain, unique henchman, generic henchman) we actually encounter.

I've contacted customer service to request light-backed proxies, and hopefully all will be remedied.

Anyway, I'd echo the above:

Quote:
I don't know what Paizo's process for manufacturing or QA is, but I do not specifically believe this is Paizo's fault per se. I do believe that it is Paizo's opportunity to work with their printer to ensure that there is consistency to the shade on the card backs... My hope is that Paizo works with their printer/QA to remediate and prevent this error.

Is there an update on the printer side of things, as far as future sets are concerned? Or reprints of Core and Crimson Throne?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Hello,

1) in my set the cards are definitly too dark ( locations ) I wouls buy another one if I was sure to get something clearer

2) never got the promo cards with my subscription, tried CS but with little luck so far

Luv the game anyway, and yes the new rules are better than the old ones.

can we have figurines of the new peeps?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
etien wrote:
2) never got the promo cards with my subscription, tried CS but with little luck so far

Checking your post history it sounds like the last thing you posted was that you received a message indicating the cards were in the mail.

If you haven't received them, I would follow-up in that same post asking about it.

etien wrote:
can we have figurines of the new peeps?

There is the "Iconic Heroes" Pathfinder Battle sets by Wizkids that has all of the iconics except for our newest iconic Fumbus. And then Varian isn't an iconic so he wouldn't be in one of those sets. I think everyone else should be, though there are 8 sets and it'd be quite a bit to get all of those sets just for this purpose.

But yeah, would be pretty cool if there was a set for Core and a set for Curse.


My addition to this:
I picked up Core Set & Curse at Gen Con.

I've sleeved all the cards with clear sleeves.

Then I noticed the issue, some are a definite brighter orange, some are a darker red.

I initially thought that it won't matter much until I started playing and when a Villain gets mixed into the other henchmen / proxy cards and it's easy to tell them apart, then it is an issue.

Should I contact customer service, or is this just one of those things?


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redeux wrote:


There is the "Iconic Heroes" Pathfinder Battle sets by Wizkids that has all of the iconics except for our newest iconic Fumbus. And then Varian isn't an iconic so he wouldn't be in one of those sets.

I don't follow Paizo's "regular" miniatures line, but I'm almost positive Varian must have appeared in it as a pre-painted figure, although with some generic name (say, "Elf Sorcerer" or something), so locating the individual miniature to buy might prove difficult.

If you're not above getting your hands dirty with paint, this could also be an option:
https://paizo.com/products/btpy90dk?Pathfinder-Miniatures-Varian-Jeggare

As for Fumbus, you may want to keep an eye on this:
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/wzk73146.html


Here is the playtest Iconic Heroes set, which has Fumbus: https://www.miniaturemarket.com/wzk73146.html

Oh Longshot posted it already.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
redeux wrote:


If you haven't received them, I would follow-up in that same post asking about it.

First I noticed that I was missing the curse wounded card and I received it from CS ( thanks to them )

Then I realised I also missed the promo card, wrote a direct email to them, still waiting for an answer, no rush it s just a ( very nice ) card game

zeroth_hour2 and Longshot wrote:


Here is the playtest Iconic Heroes set, which has Fumbus: https://www.miniaturemarket.com/wzk73146.html

Thanks for that just ordered it

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