We're Not Staying Mum(my) Any Longer

Tuesday, October 20, 2015

During PaizoCon 2015, we stood onstage with designer Liz Spain and revealed that the next Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Adventure Path would be Mummy's Mask. And we said that we'd be releasing it in February. As it turns out, we're right an even 50 percent of the time.

Since the announcement, we've received a lot of feedback from customers, retailers, and distributors that our release schedule is outpacing all but our most enthusiastic players. People are still playing Skull & Shackles, or even Rise of the Runelords, and they aren't ready for a new set yet. So we've decided to delay Mummy's Mask until we feel the market is ready. That may mean July, and it may mean October, but it definitely doesn't mean February. When we commit to a firm date, we'll let you know. But fear not—it will come.

But wait a minute, you say—what if you are one of our most enthusiastic players? No worries. There's going to be plenty to keep you busy. We'll continue to release Class Decks: In the first five months of 2016, you can expect to see the Oracle, Alchemist, Inquisitor, Witch, and Gunslinger decks. We're even increasing the number of newly designed boons in some of those decks. (Hint: Damiel gets a pet giant slug.)


Yikes!

So great! That's a whole lot of new characters and boons, but what are you going to do with them? Where are the new scenarios to play through? If you've played through Rise of the Runelords (maybe a couple times), completed Skull & Shackles, and sailed through Season of the Shackles, you're probably just waiting for us to release the end of Wrath of the Righteous and Season of the Righteous... and you need MORE!

Well, we have just the thing. We're pleased to announce the next Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild season:

Season of the Runelords

Imagine that you decided to release a game based on a system you created, and you wanted the most sweeping story to go with it. Some full-on epic thing. It's no accident that the Rise of the Runelords base set was one of the biggest sellers in Paizo's history—that story is really, really good. It's chock full of giants and dragons and ogres and all manner of malevolent things.

So we're going back to the well. A whole lot of you own Runelords, and we want that to be something you can play for a long, long time. We're making a brand-new, epic Season of the Runelords, spanning the entire length of the story. But we might mix things up a little bit. Okay, a whole lot. Because you can only burn down Sandpoint Cathedral so many times. (Ten, fifteen times, tops.)

And hey, remember this ol' horsey-monster? And this bad mamma-jamma?


The original Odd Couple.

Remember how we never actually used them as villains for a scenario? Well, we've got plans for them. Big, big plans.

This will also harmonize with Obsidian's release of the PACG digital game, which (surprise!) will start with Rise of the Runelords. So we've been looking back at Runelords to see where we can improve it a little bit for the digital version. Nips and tucks, mostly. But we think you'll like what you see. And it'll tie in nicely with what we do in the Adventure Card Guild.

Season of the Runelords will begin early next year. It'll be glorious! Come play!

Mike Selinker and Tanis O'Connor
Adventure Card Game Designers

Note for Adventure Card Guild Fans: We've designed a fifth scenario in Season of the Righteous Adventure 5, so 5D will come out this week, 5E next week, and Adventure 6 will begin one week later than originally planned, during the first week of November.

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Adventure Card Guild Class Decks Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Pathfinder Society Rise of the Runelords
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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Skull and Shackles had a poster but nothing for Season of the Shackles. And I know my stores never got posters for Wrath of the Righteous.

Paizo stopped making promo posters for retailers shortly after S&S. The feedback we were getting from distributors is that they didn't feel enough stores actually used them to justify the logistical burden to make them happen. We might do one or two every couple of years, when we have something really special, but the days of sending posters to retailers on a regular basis are likely in the past.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Skull and Shackles had a poster but nothing for Season of the Shackles. And I know my stores never got posters for Wrath of the Righteous.
Paizo stopped making promo posters for retailers shortly after S&S. The feedback we were getting from distributors is that they didn't feel enough stores actually used them to justify the logistical burden to make them happen. We might do one or two every couple of years, when we have something really special, but the days of sending posters to retailers on a regular basis are likely in the past.

Understood. Gotta put the advertising dollars where they'll be used.

Then can I suggest flyers or some printable promotional materials that can be sent (download queues) to stores and VOs to distribute at stores? For the Organized Play seasons, describing them and the requirements to play. And something for class decks as well.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

3 people marked this as a favorite.

As a PFS venture-lietenant, that's exactly the sort of thing you should suggest to our new campaign coordinator!

Adventure Card Game Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Then can I suggest flyers or some printable promotional materials that can be sent (download queues) to stores and VOs to distribute at stores? For the Organized Play seasons, describing them and the requirements to play. And something for class decks as well.

We just talked about this today; stay tuned. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yay!

(My skills are not geared towards that.)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

While I'm a little disappointed in the delay of Mummy's Mask (mostly because it would be another set designed with Alchemist characters in mind and now I won't have a third version of Damiel to choose from next OP Season), I feel that the pros definitely outweigh the cons for me.

Rebel Song wrote:
I actually don't own Runelords because I started with OP. Now that the next season is Runelords, makes sense for me to get it! :D

I also hadn't bought Runelords up to this point, despite being one of the original open playtesters for the game. A friend of mine had bought the set for us to play and since it was still a little rough around the edges (both mechanically and literally with some of the decks having slightly different card sizes), I didn't really have a good reason to buy it since I went on to playtest S&S then got the final version of that set. I've mostly been focusing on organized play since it was started. Now I kind of regret not buying Runelords sooner because if I had, I'd have a little extra money in my gaming budget for a while. And now I need to be really careful to make sure that I get only second printings of the set (hopefully my local game store's distributors don't have any more first printings hanging around in their warehouses or something).

Mike Selinker wrote:
Mmmm, Gunslinger deck in Runelords. Sign me up.

Yes! In my book, Gunslinger is probably the most important Class Deck for home-play character options that hadn't already been released/announced. I'm glad that it's coming out sooner rather than later. Although I mainly use the class decks for organized play, I definitely see the Alchemist and Gunslinger decks getting a lot of home use during the off season.

Speaking of the "off season", Season of the Runelords is a good way to keep us Card Guild players happy while we wait for Mummy's Mask. However, if one set per year becomes the norm (which I think is a good idea), are there plans for the off season between future sets?

Also, any news on the release of revised Season of the Shackles files to support the Tier system?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

pluvia33 wrote:
Speaking of the "off season", Season of the Runelords is a good way to keep us Card Guild players happy while we wait for Mummy's Mask. However, if one set per year becomes the norm (which I think is a good idea), are there plans for the off season between future sets?

If you're asking what happens after Season of the Runelords *and* Season of the Mummy (assuming it's called that), if you keep in mind that we haven't even completed Season of the Righteous, you might NOT be surprised that the answer I have to offer is... [consults Magic 8 Ball] "Ask Again Later."

pluvia33 wrote:
Also, any news on the release of revised Season of the Shackles files to support the Tier system?

Expect that after we're finished with SotR 6.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
Also, any news on the release of revised Season of the Shackles files to support the Tier system?
Expect that after we're finished with SotR 6.

Is that Runelords or Righteous?

Pathfinder ACG Developer

Or Season of the Regent, Reign, or Rebels?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Keith Richmond wrote:
Or Season of the Regent, Reign, or Rebels?

Tease. :)

But yeah, I'm hoping Vic meant Righteous. There should be a month or so break between the end of Righteous and the start of Runelords, so I'd think that should be plenty of time for the developers to make the adjustments. It should just be a matter of picking which feat rewards to drop/change and updating the chronicle sheets.

Adventure Card Game Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Siygess wrote:
Plus this gives you even MORE time to figure out how to do Kingmaker ;)

Who says we haven't figured that out?

Adventure Card Game Designer

HikariStarshine wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Expect that after we're finished with SotR 6.
Is that Runelords or Righteous?

I argued for calling it "Season of the Xin-Shalastians" just for that reason.


Vic Wertz wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
Speaking of the "off season", Season of the Runelords is a good way to keep us Card Guild players happy while we wait for Mummy's Mask. However, if one set per year becomes the norm (which I think is a good idea), are there plans for the off season between future sets?

If you're asking what happens after Season of the Runelords *and* Season of the Mummy (assuming it's called that), if you keep in mind that we haven't even completed Season of the Righteous, you might NOT be surprised that the answer I have to offer is... [consults Magic 8 Ball] "Ask Again Later."

pluvia33 wrote:
Also, any news on the release of revised Season of the Shackles files to support the Tier system?
Expect that after we're finished with SotR 6.

What is wrong with season of. The shackles? Tier system?

What needs to be revised? The pdf-files? The drivethrucards?
Missed that one.

Pathfinder ACG Developer

Mike Selinker wrote:
I argued for calling it "Season of the Xin-Shalastians" just for that reason.

It does roll off the tongue, doesn't it? I don't think you need 'the' there, though. SOX.


You can always have a go at adapting n adventure path that hasn't been slated for release yet.

We are currently play through AD5 of Carrion Crown. There are hundreds of cards from the three releases to date plus all the class decks.

We have ordered the thematic ones from Drive Thru that we have created -it has been a blast.

It also gives an insight into the issues Mike and co have trying to do this for us!

Yeah I am disappointed but it gives me more time to finish adapting Shattered Star!

gk

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Myfly wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
Speaking of the "off season", Season of the Runelords is a good way to keep us Card Guild players happy while we wait for Mummy's Mask. However, if one set per year becomes the norm (which I think is a good idea), are there plans for the off season between future sets?

If you're asking what happens after Season of the Runelords *and* Season of the Mummy (assuming it's called that), if you keep in mind that we haven't even completed Season of the Righteous, you might NOT be surprised that the answer I have to offer is... [consults Magic 8 Ball] "Ask Again Later."

pluvia33 wrote:
Also, any news on the release of revised Season of the Shackles files to support the Tier system?
Expect that after we're finished with SotR 6.

What is wrong with season of. The shackles? Tier system?

What needs to be revised? The pdf-files? The drivethrucards?
Missed that one.

The Season of the Shackles was written before the tier system existed, and the scenarios and adventures give feat rewards. That is no longer the case in OP except for very rare occasions, as you get feats for completing a certain amount of scenarios at each tier, they are no longer rewards.

Keith Richmond wrote:
Or Season of the Regent, Reign, or [url=http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/hellsRebels]Rebels[/]?

If Reign is not Season of Winter, I'm boycotting!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Since we are mixing everything while we wait for the next AP, I think we should call that Salad Seasoning.


Frencois wrote:

Since we are mixing everything while we wait for the next AP, I think we should call that Salad Seasoning.

... And the dressing is called "5 class decks".


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Troymk1 wrote:

But the thought that an auto manufacturer would hold back producing their latest model because I am not ready to part with my older model just seems bizarre (and entitled) to me

Isn't that exactly what car manufacturers do? They release a new model on a schedule, and scale manufacture based on expected sales.

They certainly don't expect the same person to buy two cars a year as well.

Games are a different market than cars. I can say I was probably going to cancel my subscription if the next set was coming out soon. I'm much more inclined to keep my subscription if there is only one adventure path a year. A small number of hardcore fans is not sufficient to maintain the sales required for a game of this scale.

Scarab Sages

Keith Richmond wrote:
Mike Selinker wrote:
I argued for calling it "Season of the Xin-Shalastians" just for that reason.
It does roll off the tongue, doesn't it? I don't think you need 'the' there, though. SOX.

Season of Sandpoint? SoS vs SotS?

Pathfinder ACG Developer

There are plenty of options (Season of Thassilon, etc), it's just a question of which has enough traction. It's also technically possible to drop the season tag and branch out. Rise of the Runelords could have Down with the Runelords ;)

At the end of the day, though, Season of the Runelords is pretty darn clear!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I was ok with the original 3-month delay, but slowing down to one full set a year is even better. I love PACG, but my group needs to play other games every now and again to not get burned out. With 1.75 to 2 sets a year, I don't know if we would have time to play other games and keep up with the PACG release schedule since we only play 2-3 times a month, and I suspect we are fairly average in our pace.

Plus, I expect Apocrypha to eat up a nice chunk of my time as well.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns Subscriber

Is it possible to do a module line for the PACG where they would fit into the theme of a box? (I.e. Feast of Ravenwood to be used with Rise of the Runelords Decks 1-3).

I am not asking to convert existing modules but creating new ones fitting the card selection of a base set. These modules could be one deck in size including specific cards key to the story while not needing a lot of standard cards (armor, spells, weapons) provided by the base set.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
the Haunted Jester wrote:

Is it possible to do a module line for the PACG where they would fit into the theme of a box? (I.e. Feast of Ravenwood to be used with Rise of the Runelords Decks 1-3).

I am not asking to convert existing modules but creating new ones fitting the card selection of a base set. These modules could be one deck in size including specific cards key to the story while not needing a lot of standard cards (armor, spells, weapons) provided by the base set.

Similar to PFS modules, huh? Maybe it comes with a list of base set cards needed for the scenarios.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I've noticed several suggestions for additional products in this thread. Please note that the solution to the problem "you're producing things too quickly" is *not* "produce more things to fill the gap you just created!"

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

LOL

Yes, Vic.

Paizo Employee Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Vic Wertz wrote:
I've noticed several suggestions for additional products in this thread. Please note that the solution to the problem "you're producing things too quickly" is *not* "produce more things to fill the gap you just created!"

Although the solution might be for us, in the community, to produce more things to fill a perceived gap. I think the idea of using existing cards to align with an existing module--like "Feast of Ravenmoor" or PFS scenarios--seems like a neat idea. I've heard others are converting their own entire APs (like Carrion Crown).

Paizo Employee Developer

Mike Selinker wrote:
HikariStarshine wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Expect that after we're finished with SotR 6.
Is that Runelords or Righteous?
I argued for calling it "Season of the Xin-Shalastians" just for that reason.

Yet only one runelord actually ruled from Xin-Shalast. The others ruled from their own capitals.

/pedantry

Adventure Card Game Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

OK, Season of the Xin-Shalast Runelord but Not Any Other Rulelords.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Season of a Runelord?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

SotXSRbNAOR for short.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Seriously though, Season of the Sins?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Misroi wrote:
SotXSRbNAOR for short.

But I'm worried if we say that aloud, we'll accidentally summon something from the Abyss

Adventure Card Game Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Vic, you need to make an Adventure Path with "Witch" in the title.


As a fervent player who has finished Runelords with three parties, S&S with two parties, and is half way through Wrath with three different parties, the announcement of the delay comes as bleak news. I recognize that my pace of play makes me an outlier, but I had already started licking my chops with anticipation over Mask. I know that Mike and the rest of the team are charting the course that they feel will best serve the long term interest of the product line, but I am going to miss the chance to jump into the next set. I don’t have much interest in season of the runelords, and will probably be moving on to other games in the newly emergent genre to see if I can find something else to scratch my itch.

Hopefully the digital game will keep me engaged with PACG, and I look forward to diving right back into the game whenever Mask finds its way onto the shelves.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
I've noticed several suggestions for additional products in this thread. Please note that the solution to the problem "you're producing things too quickly" is *not* "produce more things to fill the gap you just created!"

I would definitely never suggest any additional physical products to fill the gap. That would definitely be silly. However, I do think that extra products in the PDF/print-on-demand format like the upcoming Runelords OP season could be good ways to keep the more active players engaged while they're waiting for more physical content.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
I've noticed several suggestions for additional products in this thread. Please note that the solution to the problem "you're producing things too quickly" is *not* "produce more things to fill the gap you just created!"

The problem may also be that you are not producing the right stuff. Additional content (physical, PDF, PoD, etc) that can be used with existing box sets may be more attractive to folks. I would expect that the price point would be lower and the frequency might be easier to digest.

Either way, I think the key is maintaining some level fresh product in the pipeline. A delay in the next base set (which could be a almost a year away) causes folks to be concerned.

Personally I buy pretty much everything in the line and I would be interested in products other than the traditional base set and adventure decks.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Our distributors, retailers, and players are being pretty clear that the problem is product speed, not product mix. It's not that people don't want Mummy's Mask—they just want time to finish other things before they do MM. They are still playing the content we gave them in RotR, S&S, SotS, Wrath, and/or SotR, and only the most enthusiastic are looking for new content. You can see evidence for all of those things in this very thread.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I think this is fantastic news. I am a huge fan, and our group has enjoyed all of the products released so far (even wrath, which kicked us in the teeth a few times but we found it more enjoyable with deck 1 and much more fun at deck 2.)

We each have a list of the other characters we want to play and sometimes we have felt pressured keep up with the release schedule. This extra time will be great for revisiting all 3 sets with class deck characters or combinations of characters we haven't tried yet. The feeling of "hurry up or fall behind" was starting to hit us so this news is perfectly timed.

Thanks, always, for listening to your fans.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Our distributors, retailers, and players are being pretty clear that the problem is product speed, not product mix. It's not that people don't want Mummy's Mask—they just want time to finish other things before they do MM. They are still playing the content we gave them RotR, S&S, SotS, Wrath, and/or SotR, and only the most enthusiastic are looking for new content. You can see evidence for all of those things in this very thread.

Not saying that you are wrong. Just started on Wrath or the Righteous and Season of the Righteous content myself. I was definitely in the camp of more content as soon as possible when RotRL was being released. I was very happy with the change to a monthly release.

I am excited by the news that there will be a Season of the Runelords especially because it is additional content for the RotRL box set.

Just wondering how things will look between now and when Mummy's Mask is released. What could almost be a year without new printed card adventure content might make folks antsy for new product.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ron Lundeen wrote:
Although the solution might be for us, in the community, to produce more things to fill a perceived gap. I think the idea of using existing cards to align with an existing module--like "Feast of Ravenmoor" or PFS scenarios--seems like a neat idea. I've heard others are converting their own entire APs (like Carrion Crown).

I like the idea of using existing content to make additional adventures.

I also like the idea of using drivethrucards but it seems to be taking quite a while for the rest of the card types to become available for creation; especially locations, adventures and scenarios.


I'm also grateful for the slow down. While a part of me would love more products that might allow more design opportunities for self made paths like a Bestiary Box focused on aberrations like mind flayers and beholders the truth is what slow down there is will allow me to pick up the iconic miniatures, card sleeves, and box dividers during the intervening months. I might even pick up a playmat! I will put out there that I know one adventure path that will never be made but I would love to see someone adapt. The Age of Worms before Paizo verged away with pathfinder. Technically it was D+D but it was a phenomenal pre pathfinder adventure path.


I'm sure there may be proprietary issues even with an informal adaption but if you start the blog with a giant slug I feel the Age of Worms should at least get a mention

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

There will now be a short pause whilst I step into the next room and execute operation Cry Baby Hissy Fit.

(*time passes*)

We apologize for that delay.

I'm one of those freaks that hasn't finished ANY of the boxed sets who is still champing at the bit for Mummy's Mask. I respect the decision, and I'm looking forward to Season of the SomethingThatDoesn'tBeginWithR. I'm just not one of the people about whom those retailers were speaking.

Now if you'll excuse me, there's a bunch of hubub about the owner of my FLGS going missing, and I have a body to hide.

Scarab Sages

I'm alright for the delay; AD4 WotR is proving VERY difficult for me to get through. Thankfully I have plenty of other Mummy's Mask stuff to get me through the wait...Should I re-read the AP, or hit refresh on the audiobook page some more...?


I have to agree with the assessment that this stuff is coming out too quickly.

I have two groups I play PACG with; the second group is the first group plus two more people. Group 1 just finished RotR, group 2 just finished Deck 2 of S&S (mostly because we suck at being pirates, it seems).


It took my playgroup about 10 months to finish S&S playing at 1 scenario per week at lunch and skipping any week where we didn't have at least 4 of 6 players.

With the playgroup for RotR we also took somewhere around 6-8 months by playing about one weekend per month at 4-5 scenarios per play session.

One new set per year seems to be about right for groups that play about as fast/frequently as our group did.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Vic Wertz wrote:
Season of a Runelord?

Ron Lundeen is a nice guy providing extra material for PACG Players for free.

So how about honouring him with

- Season of the Ronlord?
Or
- Season of the Ronlund? (Switching just "o" and "u" based on Vics proposal)

What do you think?

Check
http://www.welbybumpus.com
Is awesome PREMIUM :-D

PS: thats how my idea generation works ...


Mike Selinker wrote:


MAJBrown22 wrote:
Maybe a PaizoCon release in May? Now THAT would be true fan service!
We considered that, but Paizo wanted to do summer/fall instead. If it takes that long, mummies for Halloween is okay by us.

Mummies for Halloween would be cool, maybe then I'll have time to play RotR. I started with S&S and never played the original. That's assuming. of course, there's down time after Apocrypha.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I've taken 4 characters through RotR, 2 through S&S, 1 through WotR, with several other characters of various progression through them. Don't know where that puts me on the continuum of enthusiastic vs. casual player, but I'm kind of feeling a little relieved for the release push back. I've got a backlog of characters I want to play; in addition to the ones that I've started but not completed playing through, there are characters I want to start (I have't decided if my next character will be Arueshalae or Athnul). I'm excited for the upcoming class decks as I'm sure there are going to be characters I want to play from those decks as well.

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