Eldritch Archer and getting more cantrips

[dpb123]

Hi all,

I'm trying to think of all the ways an Eldritch Archer can increase the cantrips he knows past the 1 he gets from the dedication.

Let's assume the base is an elf fighter. So there are Ancestry feats like Otherworldly Magic or even Elemental Wrath.

Short of taking the taking the Basic Eldritch Archer Spellcasting feat, or another spellcasting archetype, are there other ways?

Can I use the Learn a Spell action to add new cantrips to my repertoire? I think I can but am not sure.

Thanks

[HammerJack]

If your only spell source is Eldritch Archer, then you're a spontaneous caster with a Repertoire.

From Learn A Spell:
"if you have a spell repertoire, you can select it when you add or swap spells."

So the activity does not expand your repertoire. It could only make something that wasn't always available (due to rarity, for example) an option to swap to as you might do on level up.

[dpb123]

Thanks Hammerjack. Not the answer I wanted but something was telling me I was probably overlooking something and now I know what it is

[cavernshark]

Outside of ancestry feats and multiclass dedications, I don't think you really can get other cantrips.

Off the top of my head, innate spells from ancestries come from:
Kobold spellscale heritage and dracomancer feats
Gnome heritage and ancestry feats
Several different elven feats, with Ekujae elves being a standout
Tengu can get elecric arc which wouldn't work with eldritch archer

Oh... rogue feat minor magic. Usually skipped in favor of a caster dedication, but you could enter EA at 6 with 3 cantrips and then grab basic spell casting at 8.

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Edit:

Yea, a gnome or elf can get at least 5 cantrips at level 6 when they enter the Dedication as a rogue.

Sample build:

Gnome Ruffian Rogue (assuming intimidate might be more useful here given innate spells run off charisma anyway). Keep dexterity as key ability here.

Ancestry:
H: Fey-Touched Gnome Heritage (flexible primal cantrip)
A1: First World Gnome Ancestry Feat (extra primal cantrip)
A5: Natural Illusionist (once per day cast ventriloquism, illusory disguise, item facade)
A9: First World Adept (invisibility and faerie fire innate spells)

Class Choices:
Rogue 1: You're Next, Tumble Away, whatever you want.
Rogue 2: Minor Magic (two cantrips, probably sticking with primal)
Rogue 4: Dread Striker or Magical Trickster (I'd be inclined to do Dread Striker to have easier access to SA at range)
Rogue 6: Eldritch Archer dedication (1 cantrip)
Rogue 8+: Basic Spell Casting, or any other level 8 EA feat.

At 9, you'd be looking at:
5 primal cantrips
3 1st level spells (1 from basic spell casting, faerie fire, and one of the three illusions from natural illusionist)
2 2nd level spells (1 from basic spell casting, invisibility)
1 3rd level spell (1 from basic spell casting)

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Edit 2:

And I just now read we're doing Elven fighters. My bad. I got excited when I remembered that Minor Magic exists.

I think your best bet is Wildborn (1st), Ancestral Paragon at 3 for an additional feat (Otherworldly Magic), and Wildborn Adept (5th). That will net you four primal cantrips and an arcane cantrip before EA dedication at 6. There's less flexibility on which ones, but Disrupt Undead, another primal cantrip from Wildborn, and the arcane cantrip from Otherworldly Magic will give you 3 attacks. You'd also have Tanglefoot for a non-damaging one which can still ride on Eldritch Shot.

Otherworldly Adept at 9 from Elven ancestry would also give you a flexible level 2 innate spell on top of everything else.

[dpb123]

cavernshark wrote:

Edit 2:

And I just now read we're doing Elven fighters. My bad. I got excited when I remembered that Minor Magic exists.

I think your best bet is Wildborn (1st), Ancestral Paragon at 3 for an additional feat (Otherworldly Magic), and...

No need to apologize, this is all still very helpful. Many thanks!

[lemeres]

Half elf might be a better option for a base, since it gets both the elf and human feats for innate spells.

Of course, the only one that helps in this situation is dragon spit, if I remember right. It gives you the option of the 4 energy type cantrips (so produce fire and ray of frost.... and acid splash if you HAVE to have acid, and you don't acid arrow gained from another source).

The arcane tattoo feat doesn't actually help, since it gives the save based cantips. Although you could potentially get higher level spells with later feats in that line (if you find some nice 1st and 3rd level arcane spells that work for an eldritch archer).

[cavernshark]

lemeres wrote:

Half elf might be a better option for a base, since it gets both the elf and human feats for innate spells.

Of course, the only one that helps in this situation is dragon spit, if I remember right. It gives you the option of the 4 energy type cantrips (so produce fire and ray of frost.... and acid splash if you HAVE to have acid, and you don't acid arrow gained from another source).

The arcane tattoo feat doesn't actually help, since it gives the save based cantips. Although you could potentially get higher level spells with later feats in that line (if you find some nice 1st and 3rd level arcane spells that work for an eldritch archer).

Conjuration Arcane Tattoo does get Tanglefoot, which requires a spell attack role so is compatible with Eldritch Shot.

The issue with going Human (or Half-Elf) in my mind is that to maximize the cantrips you do have to cross several regional barriers. Dragon Spit requires Tian-Dan ancestry for access and Arcane Tattoos require Varisian or New Thassilonian ancestry. If you aren't playing in Golarion and your GM doesn't care then you're probably fine, but figured it's worth calling out.

The Arcane Tattoo line is great though for the 1st and 3rd spell on top of the cantrip.

[cavernshark]

cavernshark wrote:

And I just now read we're doing Elven fighters. My bad. I got excited when I remembered that Minor Magic exists.

I think your best bet is Wildborn (1st), Ancestral Paragon at 3 for an additional feat (Otherworldly Magic), and Wildborn Adept (5th). That will net you four primal cantrips and an arcane cantrip before EA dedication at 6. There's less flexibility on which ones, but Disrupt Undead, another primal cantrip from Wildborn, and the arcane cantrip from Otherworldly Magic will give you 3 attacks. You'd also have Tanglefoot for a non-damaging one which can still ride on Eldritch Shot.

Otherworldly Adept at 9 from Elven ancestry would also give you a flexible level 2 innate spell on top of everything else.

I think I found another way to juice this a little more. Riffing off lemeres' idea, you could do this with a lot of different versatile heritages (like Changeling), but I went with Tiefling. This is an Ekujae elf who'd has been influenced by abyssal forces in the Mwangi. Joins the Magaambya to learn to tame their darker aspects even though they aren't classically trained in spell casting.

Ancestry
H: Tiefling
1: Wildborn (1 primal cantrip, probably ray of frost or produce flame)
5: Wildborn Adept (disrupt undead, tanglefoot, dancing lights)
9: Otherworldly Magic (flexible 2nd level innate arcane spell)
13: Fiend's Door (DDoor once per day)

Fighter:
1: Anything, but probably Point Blank Shot
2: Magaambyan Attendant Dedication (free arcane or primal cantrip)
4: Mask Familiar (use familiar to get Cantrip Connection & Innate Surge)
6: Eldritch Archer Dedication
8: Basic Spell Casting

General / Skill Feats:
2 or 4: Arcane Sense (detect magic at will)
3: Ancestral Paragon: Pick up Otherworldly Magic (another cantrip)
6: Uzunjati Storytelling or Emerald Boughs Accustomation (frees you up from the Magaambyan Attendant dedication in order to take Eldritch Archer)

Final Result at 9 (taking some liberties on free choices):
Cantrips: produce flame (1), detect magic (2), stabalize (2), telekinetic projectile (3), guidance (4), disrupt undead (5), tanglefoot (5), dancing lights (5), anything! (6, EA)
1st: 1 slot from basic spell casting
2nd: 1 slot from basic spell casting, 1 flexible from Otherworldy Adept, 1 additional cast of the same flexible spell using Innate Surge from your familiar.
3rd: 1 slot from basic spell casting

You miss out on some fighter feats, but you'll gain a little more spell casting power without delaying entry to EA. That said, you could just as easily have taken a caster dedication and grabbed two feats (including basic spellcasting) and then picked EA at 8 and you end up in mostly the same place. If you opt out of Basic Spell casting immediately at 8, this version still gives you two 2nd level spells per day.

[lemeres]

cavernshark wrote:

Conjuration Arcane Tattoo does get Tanglefoot, which requires a spell attack role so is compatible with Eldritch Shot.

The issue with going Human (or Half-Elf) in my mind is that to maximize the cantrips you do have to cross several regional barriers. Dragon Spit requires Tian-Dan ancestry for access and Arcane Tattoos require Varisian or New Thassilonian ancestry. If you aren't playing in Golarion and your GM doesn't care then you're probably fine, but figured it's worth calling out.

The Arcane Tattoo line is great though for the 1st and 3rd spell on top of the cantrip.

Oh my. A half elf raised in between Tian-Dan and Varisia. And probably raised by gnomes (...admittedly, gnomes seem like the kind of people that would raise a kid that convoluted).

[dpb123]

cavernshark and lemeres, many thanks for all this information. VERY helpful

[Fayteri]

Uzunjati storytelling requires master in a Recall Knowledge skill, so it'll be tricky picking it up at 6th.

Kinda feels like they meant "Expert" and its an error.

[Gisher]

I'll just leave this here.

• Gisher's Guide to Acquiring Common Cantrips

[c0sm0s]

Can Eldritch Archers use Learn A Spell activity to learn more spells?

[Blave]

c0sm0s wrote:

Can Eldritch Archers use Learn A Spell activity to learn more spells?

If you get a Spell Repertoire because you were a non-caster before going Eldritch Archer: No. You could use Learn A Spell to gain access to uncommon spells, but you'd still have to add them to your Repertoire when you get a new spell or retrain one of the spells you already know.

If you aleady have Spellcasting before to becoming an Eldritch Archer, it is unclear how exactly the EA Spellcasting feats interact with that - if at all.

[Cordell Kintner]

As a spontaneous caster, the Learn a Spell activity can never increase the number of spells in your repertoire, only grant access to spells to learn later if you didn't have access before. Only certain feats/class features can increase the number of spells in your repertoire, like Occult Evolution.

Eldritch Archer appears to be a Spontaneous caster, from the wording in the Basic/Expert/Master spellcasting feats. The wording of the dedication feat would only apply to that specific cantrip being "prepared" if you're a prepared caster, not any other spells gained. None of the feats require you to use spells from the archetype, so any other casting archetype would work just fine with it.

Also, there was no need to necro multiple threads to ask the same question, especially one that's unrelated. You could have just made a new thread.

[Gary Bush]

Should this be in the advice area as the question does not appear be rules related?

[Alchemic_Genius]

Personally, I'd use a rogue base, possibly using the eldritch trickster racket, and pick up minor magic as my level 2 rogue feat. That's 5 cantrips just between the free dedication, the one rogue feat, and archer dedication.

Gnome can let you grab a ton of cantrips as well, another 2 more from just a level 1 ancestry feat and heritage. Now you're up to 7 cantrips.

Arcane sight gives you detect magic for free as well, so you can spend even less of your slots on the essentials.

Since you can pick and choose which tradition a number of these feats give you, you can even cherry pick. Minor magic can let you pick, say, divine, and you can nab divine lance for alignment damage and disrupt undead for positive damage. The gnome feats can let you add 2 elemental cantrips. You can get the other 2 by taking arcane as your ET tradition (probably via a sorcerer bloodline) and eldritch archer, and you can also grab TK projectile to cover all physical damage types.

Like, with this setup, you could exploit almost every weakness or bypass pesky resistances no prob