Weapon Proficiency Tables


Advice


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I was having trouble visualizing the weapon proficiency progressions for the various classes, so I made up some tables. I thought I'd share them in case they can help others.

I made sure to include special cases like the Fighter's Chosen Weapon Group and the Deity's Favored Weapon options for clerics. I based the Unarmed Strike rules on the statements developers have made regarding the upcoming errata. There is some guessing involved so those might need some changes in the future.

Please let me know if you notice any errors or omissions. Enjoy!


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Thanks thats neat!

And.. again makes me sad about Alchemist profienciies. I never noticed that Bards get similiar simple but actually get a few martial. Even if its just limited choices.

This shows me more so that Alchs really need to get master simple, or access to some sort of Martials.
and really master or legendary in bombs.

When one of the casters (who can get effective 10th lv spells) have better combat options, it kind of hurts.


I'm glad you like them! Comparing the classes was my main goal in making them. I was surprised by a few of the comparisons, as well.


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Gisher wrote:

I was having trouble visualizing the weapon proficiency progressions for the various classes, so I made up some tables. I thought I'd share them in case they can help others.

I made sure to include special cases like the Fighter's Chosen Weapon Group and the Deity's Favored Weapon options for clerics. I based the Unarmed Strike rules on the statements developers have made regarding the upcoming errata. There is some guessing involved so those might need some changes in the future.

Please let me know if you notice any errors or omissions. Enjoy!

wow thanks!

this comes in handy as I am trying to change how weapons work a bit and don't want to disrupt the math too much.


Glad I could help!


I just uploaded an update to include the martial weapons that monks get with the Monastic Weaponry class feat.


Zwordsman wrote:

Thanks thats neat!

And.. again makes me sad about Alchemist profienciies. I never noticed that Bards get similiar simple but actually get a few martial. Even if its just limited choices.

This shows me more so that Alchs really need to get master simple, or access to some sort of Martials.
and really master or legendary in bombs.

When one of the casters (who can get effective 10th lv spells) have better combat options, it kind of hurts.

I dunno, alchemists get enough non dpr utility flexibility that I wager they hold their own quite well.

I haven't run a 1-20 campaign with the full rules yet.


response t o the alch utility/dps/profiency comment. Though spoilering it because its a bit of a tangent:

They do get some nice utility. Problem is they run out of them fast.
and they run out of them faster still if they want to share their resources with their allies.

Ultimately for MOST rounds an Alchemist has to be doing something that isn't Alchemist--with the exception of perpetual infusion "bomber" who gets an effective cantrip. That bomber could reapply debuffs on hit every round. While doing very little damage. Which is a bit better once one has sticky bombs or debilitating bombs. But its debatable if flat footed +1d6+1(or int) is enough contribution at lv 7 in comparison to other classes in combat.

but most of the t ime before that level (7-which can very well take a long amount of play time). And even quite a lot after that. The Alchemist still has to use a weapon. and honestly most weapons actively protest against using bombs (or drawing items in general).
Exception being a handxbow and buckler though.
But comparing to other classes, like the bard, who gets a lot of spells, cantrips ~and~ better weapon options that scale. Bard gets better weapn proriencies, and only slightly lagging behind the Alch in the profiencies raising scale. But. Their spell attack profency keeps up and exceeds. So for a significant amount of time the Bard keeps up in weapon use, but exceeds in the spell attack. So the bard can pretty much prioritize Cha (cating stat) and then Dex to hit with fineese (damage isn't great but neither is alch's). where as the Alch can't r eally priortize INT because they completely rely on Dex and a low (same as bard basically) profiency to actually have their abilities t ake any in combat effects.

it is pretty rough on an Alchemist. Who for all effective purposes is often an "off martial" who doesn't get enough skills/skillfeats to pull off skill based debuffing and survivability at once.
Additionally at higher level, it starts to have issues with actually hitting reasonably well. At lv bombs do have item bonuses. But while you're still expert. Casters will be master or higher, and several martials will be Masters +feats that increase accuracy or number attack attempts.
(much less the bulk issue)
Alchemist isn't really able to stand alone. Its often agreed that it needs to multiclass to pick up required abilities for contribution.
Hunter's Aim, for instance is very much needed to pseudo get Masters in bombs to keep up.


The cleric, easily beat by the mage when push comes to shove...


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I made a few cosmetic changes and also added a page for Armor Proficiency.

* Weapon Proficiency Advancement

* Armor Proficiency Advancement


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I've added a few more tables. They cover weapons, armor, saving throws, perception, class DC, spellcasting, and maximum skill proficiency. Please let me know if you spot any errors.

* Weapon Proficiency Advancement

* Armor Proficiency Advancement

* Saving Throws Proficiency Advancement

* Other Proficiencies

Or you can view them all in one combined document.


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Gisher wrote:

I've added a few more tables. They cover weapons, armor, saving throws, perception, class DC, spellcasting, and maximum skill proficiency. Please let me know if you spot any errors.

* Weapon Proficiency Advancement

* Armor Proficiency Advancement

* Saving Throws Proficiency Advancement

* Other Proficiencies

Or you can view them all in one combined document.

This is really useful, but is there no way to copy it over to google drive?


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THIS!!!

Due to many requests from my friends, I had already started this project myself, but had only made it two classes in before I discovered yours.

You saved me SO MUCH work! And it looks SO MUCH BETTER than mine!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


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First: THANK YOU!!!

Second: the Sorcerer's Will save is listed as never progressing beyond Expert. I believe there was dev commentary saying they should have gotten Resolve at the same level as the Wizard.

EDIT, Third: Maximum skill proficiency neglects the Rogue, which has no indication of being locked to Trained at level 2.

EDIT, Fourth: should we assume the "all others" for spell DCs and attack rolls ignores multiclassing?


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Corvo Spiritwind wrote:
This is really useful, but is there no way to copy it over to google drive?

Oops, I thought that I was doing that. Please try this link and let me know if it is working properly.

Gisher's Guide to Proficiency Bonuses


Ravingdork wrote:

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING THIS!!!

Due to many requests from my friends, I had already started this project myself, but had only made it two classes in before I discovered yours.

You saved me SO MUCH work! And it looks SO MUCH BETTER than mine!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

You are very welcome. Considering how useful I've found your Crazy Character Emporium, I'm happy to give something back. :)


james014Aura wrote:

First: THANK YOU!!!

Second: the Sorcerer's Will save is listed as never progressing beyond Expert. I believe there was dev commentary saying they should have gotten Resolve at the same level as the Wizard.

EDIT, Third: Maximum skill proficiency neglects the Rogue, which has no indication of being locked to Trained at level 2.

EDIT, Fourth: should we assume the "all others" for spell DCs and attack rolls ignores multiclassing?

Thank you for the suggestions! I fixed the problems with the Sorcerer. I'm not sure how I forgot that change. I didn't realize that Rogues could be Expert in skills at second level. Some very interesting possibilities there. The charts only include the base classes. Trying to include multiclassing options very quickly grew out of hand.


I'm beginning to think that Druids getting a Class DC is an error. None of the other casting classes get one, it never progresses above Trained, and I can't find any other mentions of it in the Core Rulebook. Has anyone heard any announcements that this is an error?


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LOL Looking at those charts reminds me of the old marvel FASERIP charts. Good times. ;)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nice tools for comparing character options. Thanks!!!


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Neat! Thanks for your hard work.

Although, shouldn't this thread's title be updated to something like General Proficiency Tables or such?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Very nice work.

I know Clerics are only ever Trained in non-deity simple weapons, but Cleric should probably have their own line on that table, independent of Warpriest and Cloistered doctrines with their deity's weapons. It looks like an oversight.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I agree, very nice work.

It makes an excellent way to show the differences in the class proficiencies.


Lucas Yew wrote:

Neat! Thanks for your hard work.

Although, shouldn't this thread's title be updated to something like General Proficiency Tables or such?

I can't at this point. Perhaps a moderator will be willing to update the title.


Paul Watson wrote:

Very nice work.

I know Clerics are only ever Trained in non-deity simple weapons, but Cleric should probably have their own line on that table, independent of Warpriest and Cloistered doctrines with their deity's weapons. It looks like an oversight.

Apparently I accidentally erased that line during an update. Thanks for catching it!

Shadow Lodge

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Added to the 2nd Edition Guide to the Guides!


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I've updated my Guide to Proficiency Bonuses (Google Drive version) to reflect changes to Warpriest weapon advancement. According to the character sheets their Simple Weapon and Unarmed Strike proficiencies should advance with their Favored Weapon.


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I've updated the Guide to Proficiency Bonuses (Google Drive version) to include the CRB errata and the four new classes from the APG Playtest. Please let me know if I got any of the new stuff wrong.

(The Warpriest changes to simple weapon advancement turned out not to be reflected in the errata so I changed it back.)


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Thanks!

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