How to not die.


Advice


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What class/multiclassing/vmc/builds combine to make the hardest-to-kill character? I'm talking AC, Saves, HP, immunities, healing. The whole lot.

Bonus if they can actually do decently in combat as well.

The one I've come up with so far is: One level of Scaled Fist UnMonk for CHA bonus to AC and flurry. 1 level of Nature Mystery Oracle for Nature's Whispers (CHA replaces DEX for AC and CMD). The rest in Hospitaler/Tempered Champion Paladin. At some point grabbing Desna's Shooting Star for CHA to hit/damage with starknives (which improve in damage thanks to Tempered Champion, and can be taken as a bonus feat from that archetype). Grabbing Crusader's Flurry when thats available too. Also getting VMC Order of the Star Cavalier, to over-level Channel and Lay on Hands. Hospitaler loses some uses of Smite, but VMC Cavalier gives you some uses of Challenge to make up for it.
Also going Tiefling for Paladin FCB, and getting Fey Foundling at level 1.

(note because I've seen the tangent before: Theres no rule in the text saying a Paladin can't worship outside the one-step thing, and my DM has specifically already given their blessing on worshiping Desna.)

I ??think?? all the AC stuff would stack? Monk's CHA to AC is untyped, Oracle's replaces DEX, and Smite's is Deflection.

Not a lot of skills, and not as many feats to use (made up for slightly with Tempered Champion). Max out CHA and CON and it seems pretty solid? Unless theres some glaring problem I'm overlooking.

What other types of builds are just really difficult to kill?


Paladin/Oracle with Fey Touched.
Barbarians in general
Graverisen feat + determination enchantment
Alchemists at high levels
Wizards/full arcane cassters


Let's not forget the ever-popular Steelblooded Arcane Bloodrager, or an Abjuration/Illusion specialized Battle Host Occultist.


You can’t get CHA to AC twice. Also the Monk bonus to AC does not work with armor so your AC may not be all that much better from the monk.

As far as race goes Half Orcs can take the feat Ferocious Resolve which gives them full ferocity. Being able to heal yourself when you are at negative HP is probably better than healing an extra HP per level. To stop a half orc paladin with ferocious resolve you literally have to kill them. Choose staggered as your first mercy and you keep going and going.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

You can’t get CHA to AC twice. Also the Monk bonus to AC does not work with armor so your AC may not be all that much better from the monk.

As far as race goes Half Orcs can take the feat Ferocious Resolve which gives them full ferocity. Being able to heal yourself when you are at negative HP is probably better than healing an extra HP per level. To stop a half orc paladin with ferocious resolve you literally have to kill them. Choose staggered as your first mercy and you keep going and going.

Or deal 1 point of nonlethal damage. Ferocity is not a reliable way to stay alive.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My favorite character, Hama, is a pretty good example of how not to die.

Hama bought a trained mastodon for 2,000gp (per Ultimate Equipment). She then possessed it in the long term with magic jar and her Osirian spirit jars. She would then polymorph into human form, allowing her to keep most of the mastodon's physical stats, all of her mental stats, and her ability to cast spells and use class abilities. She used the minimus containment version of a binding spell to hide her true body inside her locket, relying on her familiar or party members to free her true body should her host bodies be destroyed and her be forced to return to her original body.

She would also use spells such as shadow projection when in dire straights. In the end, she had more forms than Freeza from Dragon Ball Z, which proved continually frustrating for her enemies (and my GMs). :D


Half-Orc Unbreakable fighter with Deathless Initiatw Chain comes to mind.

FCB and Toughness add a bit. Barbarian with Raging Vitality too.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
The rest in Hospitaler/Tempered Champion Paladin. At some point grabbing Desna's Shooting Star for CHA to hit/damage with starknives (which improve in damage thanks to Tempered Champion, and can be taken as a bonus feat from that archetype).

Worth noting is that this is impossible. Desna is Chaotic Good, and therefore not a valid candidate for worship by a Lawful Good Paladin. Without being able to worship her, you can't take her divine fighting style.


Saethori wrote:
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
The rest in Hospitaler/Tempered Champion Paladin. At some point grabbing Desna's Shooting Star for CHA to hit/damage with starknives (which improve in damage thanks to Tempered Champion, and can be taken as a bonus feat from that archetype).
Worth noting is that this is impossible. Desna is Chaotic Good, and therefore not a valid candidate for worship by a Lawful Good Paladin. Without being able to worship her, you can't take her divine fighting style.

As the original poster stated there is actually no rule that a paladin has to worship a Lawful Good deity, or any deity for that matter. Nor is there any rule prohibiting any character from worshiping any deity. The one step rule is for clerics and inquisitors only. Some campaign may apply that to other classes, but this is not for PFS. The original poster also said the GM has already approved it so it is in fact legal for this campaign.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Saethori wrote:
CupcakeNautilus wrote:
The rest in Hospitaler/Tempered Champion Paladin. At some point grabbing Desna's Shooting Star for CHA to hit/damage with starknives (which improve in damage thanks to Tempered Champion, and can be taken as a bonus feat from that archetype).
Worth noting is that this is impossible. Desna is Chaotic Good, and therefore not a valid candidate for worship by a Lawful Good Paladin. Without being able to worship her, you can't take her divine fighting style.
As the original poster stated there is actually no rule that a paladin has to worship a Lawful Good deity, or any deity for that matter. Nor is there any rule prohibiting any character from worshiping any deity. The one step rule is for clerics and inquisitors only. Some campaign may apply that to other classes, but this is not for PFS. The original poster also said the GM has already approved it so it is in fact legal for this campaign.

In Weapon Master's Handbook the 'Divine Fighting Technique' feat has a prerequisite of sharing the same alignment as the selected deity.

This is not part of the 'Divine Fighting Technique' printed in Divine Anthology, where the 'Desna's Shooting Star' technique comes from.

EDIT: To make it clear, the feat presented in Divine Anthology is the most resent printed version of the feat and should be the correct one. This also removes the ability to pick the feat multiple times to gain another deity's fighting techniques (which was previously stated to be allowed in Weapon Master's Handbook but is instead disallowed in Divine Anthology).


Aaaand here we go into a paladin thread.

Paladin Code wrote:

Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code.

I would say worshiping a chaotic deity falls really squarely into violating the paladin code both in regards to providing help for chaotic creatures as well as associating with creatures that offends a Lawful code.

I'd dare say that most groups would rule that this would be a really obvious violation, especially since it seems that most GMs are itching for ways to make paladins fall. Even my group - which tends to be especially lenient and forgiving towards paladins - would see worshiping a Chaotic entity as a gross violation.


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I already said in the first post that I have permission from my DM. Do not start the paladin debate in this thread. It is not helpful or relevant.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
You can’t get CHA to AC twice. Also the Monk bonus to AC does not work with armor so your AC may not be all that much better from the monk.

They never said they would wear any armor, and with the CHA to AC, yes it would because of the fact that it's from 2 different sources; the replacement for DEX, and the Monk's AC Bonus (EX) which has no type; and they'd stack even if the Monk wasn't a scaled fist which would use WIS.


Druid has some good things going for it. Wildshape into a bat and you have a good AC (large dex+size bonus+wild armor), good saves, decent HP, are flying (avoiding AoO's) and have Blindsense (to combat invisibility). Mix in the fact that you don't look like a threat until you start dropping flame strikes, and you might live longer simply by not being targeted. Add in fast empathy to fend off natural predators who think you look tasty.

Alternatively, you could figure out this guy's build. He seems pretty safe.


Paradozen wrote:

Druid has some good things going for it. Wildshape into a bat and you have a good AC (large dex+size bonus+wild armor), good saves, decent HP, are flying (avoiding AoO's) and have Blindsense (to combat invisibility). Mix in the fact that you don't look like a threat until you start dropping flame strikes, and you might live longer simply by not being targeted. Add in fast empathy to fend off natural predators who think you look tasty.

Alternatively, you could figure out this guy's build. He seems pretty safe.

Use the reincarnated druid archetype and you'll literally be unkillable, as long as you can survive that 1 week vulnerability period each time. I recommend a 1 level dip in monk (any kind, unchained is nice) for that wis to AC and bonus to all saves.


Jae Wolftail wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
You can’t get CHA to AC twice. Also the Monk bonus to AC does not work with armor so your AC may not be all that much better from the monk.
They never said they would wear any armor, and with the CHA to AC, yes it would because of the fact that it's from 2 different sources; the replacement for DEX, and the Monk's AC Bonus (EX) which has no type; and they'd stack even if the Monk wasn't a scaled fist which would use WIS.

I believe there was a FAQ that stated you could not get the same stat bonus applied twice even if they were from different sources. It was about an inquisitor and WIS but the situation was identical. One was the replacement for the normal stat and the other was an untyped bonus. I don’t remember the exact thread it was in.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Jae Wolftail wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
You can’t get CHA to AC twice. Also the Monk bonus to AC does not work with armor so your AC may not be all that much better from the monk.
They never said they would wear any armor, and with the CHA to AC, yes it would because of the fact that it's from 2 different sources; the replacement for DEX, and the Monk's AC Bonus (EX) which has no type; and they'd stack even if the Monk wasn't a scaled fist which would use WIS.
I believe there was a FAQ that stated you could not get the same stat bonus applied twice even if they were from different sources. It was about an inquisitor and WIS but the situation was identical. One was the replacement for the normal stat and the other was an untyped bonus. I don’t remember the exact thread it was in.

Its right here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk

It says that they would stack if they were from different types of bonuses, such as "a deflection bonus equal to charisma". I'd say an untyped bonus to AC (from monk), and replacing DEX (from oracle) would be two different types.


More on the topic of not getting killed, are there any decent ways of gaining Spell Resistance or Damage Resistance that don't require class features? Those seem like things that would be helpful to anyone.


Spell Resistance isn't good because it blocks friendly spells which will kill you faster in the end. Damage Resistance is only good if you can get it in excess of 10+ which isolates it to people like Barbarians.


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Your strategy(ability as a player), and what you are fighting will matter more than your build. I've seen some good builds die due to bad choices.

Having high saves and high armor for melee types is a good way to stay alive, and paladins do well in both departments.


Try to get Armour Training, Armour Focus, or Weapon Training to get access to the Armour Sacrifice and Weapon Sacrifice advanced training options to block a single instance of burst damage by absorbing it into your armour/weapon (and probably destroying it in the process). You could be hit by a explosive rune bomb and, though these options, survive because you A) Block it with your buckler, or B) Punched it with your gauntlet and told it to take it's 600d6 cheese damage elsewhere. (Though I actually think it doesn't block all of the damage since it's 100 individual runes, so I think you...still take 594d6 damage. This is a bad example..anyway)

This is only good for damage, of course.


Be an Elf, don't be an adventurer.


You can get spell resistance from being Drow or casting Spell Resistance, and damage reduction from the Stalwart and Improved Stalwart feats.


Monk with ANY feats or abilities that raise running speed. Villains can't kill your character if they can't catch him.

“All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.”


Staying alive is just as much a function of player skill as character build.

I can give (have given) highly optimized characters to incompetent players only to watch the die.


Snowlilly wrote:

Staying alive is just as much a function of player skill as character build.

I can give (have given) highly optimized characters to incompetent players only to watch the die.

I agree. No amount of optimization can make you unkillable. It's player skill and making the right choices that will save your bacon.

And bringing a 10ft pole and enough rats to trigger life detecting traps.


There is basically two approaches to not dying. The first is being something like a paladin, which has high saves, high ac, pretty good health and can even heal. Their immune to diseases and stuff at higher levels too. For what you are asking, some sort of paladin is a good way to go.

The second, slightly more overlooked option is being something like a wizard and hiding in the back of the party. Perhaps even better, a cleric hiding in the back of the party.

Could combine them, an archer paladin. A paladin who is in the back line in full plate, high saves and health who never goes into close combat. That is a character unlikely to die. I recall a paladin build that went into stalwart defender, and threw javelins that seem pretty sturdy for a second line fighter.


I wish I'd dotted it but there was some thread where a Gunslinger and some Geisha Bard (in a theorycraft) teamed up with a Paladin, but the Gunslinger and Bard just chilled in their house and used a magic ring on the Paladin's shield to send food, buffs, and bullets. It was hillarious.


Get a Protector familiar and keep it safe by putting it in a familiar satchel.

Its HP will equal half yours no matter what your effective wizard level is. It effectively gives you +2 AC and +50% HP because of Bodyguard and your optional ability to redirect damage to it.

You can get one in one of several ways: Dip 1 level of Bloodrager and taking a Bloodline Familiar instead of your 1st level bloodline power; Take Skill Focus + Eldritch Heritage in the Arcane bloodline; Take Iron Will + Familiar Bond; Take a VMC that gives a familiar like wizard.

Grand Lodge

1 commoner/10 mythic

Choose all the immortality related feats.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

Depends on level as well. I have a character in PFS at level 12 who is immune to critical hits, sneak attack, bleeds, disease, poison, sickened, nauseated, fatigue, exhaustion, dazed, stunned, confusion morale and fear effects. He has access to Death Ward and will soon pick up a Ring of Inner Fortitude. His AC is in the high 40's, all saves 20+ and can still deal about 100 or so points of damage a round.

The trouble is he takes a bit of time to get going, has specific gear requirements and may not suit the play/personality style of most players.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Taenia wrote:

Depends on level as well. I have a character in PFS at level 12 who is immune to critical hits, sneak attack, bleeds, disease, poison, sickened, nauseated, fatigue, exhaustion, dazed, stunned, confusion morale and fear effects. He has access to Death Ward and will soon pick up a Ring of Inner Fortitude. His AC is in the high 40's, all saves 20+ and can still deal about 100 or so points of damage a round.

The trouble is he takes a bit of time to get going, has specific gear requirements and may not suit the play/personality style of most players.

I'm curious. How'd you manage all that?

Sovereign Court

Dip a level into Swashbuckler to be able to Parry.

Take Snake Style to be able to use a Sense Motive check in place of your AC once each round.


Castilonium wrote:

Get a Protector familiar and keep it safe by putting it in a familiar satchel.

Its HP will equal half yours no matter what your effective wizard level is. It effectively gives you +2 AC and +50% HP because of Bodyguard and your optional ability to redirect damage to it.

You can get one in one of several ways: Dip 1 level of Bloodrager and taking a Bloodline Familiar instead of your 1st level bloodline power; Take Skill Focus + Eldritch Heritage in the Arcane bloodline; Take Iron Will + Familiar Bond; Take a VMC that gives a familiar like wizard.

I don't think that would work. If the familiar has total cover, then you aren't touching it, so you can't transfer hp to it.

Quote:
This armored case provides total cover to any Tiny or smaller creature contained within it. It includes air holes (which can be plugged with cork stoppers if you need to go underwater) and two receptacles for food and water.
Quote:
At 5th level, whenever a protector or its master takes hit point damage, as long as the protector and its master are touching, its master can choose to split the damage evenly between them as if using shield other.


Hrmm... dipping Verminous Hunter 1/Alchemist X with lingering Spirit, preserve organs, mummification and spontaneous healing can give you a huge window before dying and resist a lot of of extra damage. you will be dropped just as often as other PCs but you will also get back up almost automatically.


Ravingdork wrote:

My favorite character, Hama, is a pretty good example of how not to die.

Hama bought a trained mastodon for 2,000gp (per Ultimate Equipment). She then possessed it in the long term with magic jar and her Osirian spirit jars. She would then polymorph into human form, allowing her to keep most of the mastodon's physical stats, all of her mental stats, and her ability to cast spells and use class abilities. She used the minimus containment version of a binding spell to hide her true body inside her locket, relying on her familiar or party members to free her true body should her host bodies be destroyed and her be forced to return to her original body.

She would also use spells such as shadow projection when in dire straights. In the end, she had more forms than Freeza from Dragon Ball Z, which proved continually frustrating for her enemies (and my GMs). :D

Don't need to rely on party members to sort you out when you're forced back into your body, just set the release condition on the binding to be when your soul returns to your body.


412294 wrote:


Don't need to rely on party members to sort you out when you're forced back into your body, just set the release condition on the binding to be when your soul returns to your body.

That would cost her 6,000 gp per death to recast binding. A Raise Dead would be cheaper.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

My character:
Character Is a Level 11 Blight Druid, Lvl 1 Monk, Plumekith

Elemental Shape provides immunity to Crits, Sneak and Bleeds

Blight Druids level 9 provides Immunity to Disease, Sickened and Nauseated.

Extended Delay Poison to 24 hours cast everyday, followed up with Gr Neutralize Poison if needed.

Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon - Endurance as a bonus feat and turns Fatigue into Sickened and Exhausted into Nauseated.

Padma's Blossom (Cult of Ebon Destroyers) Immunity to Stun, Daze, Confused, Morale effects and Fear.

High Dex/Wis, Barkskin, Magical Knack, plus buffs to put him up to high AC. Items plus stacking Monk/Druid saves + Fates Favored and Stone of Good Luck.

Damage Piranha Strike, Weapon Finesse, good dex, GMF agile AoMF w/Flurry combined with frostbite, produce flame, vine strike or strongjaw plus Large/Huge Size for damage.

Has lots of fun with whirlwind in 7-11s too, so far i have juggled 3 hill giants once, another time i juggled 2 stone golems.

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