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jerdane wrote:
Just a minor thing, but should Drow Lore provide another skill training? Most similar ancestry feats work that way, with two skills and a lore, but this only gives Religion and Drow Lore. Perhaps Stealth would be a good choice?

I can only quote basic lore that crosses games I have an extensive thread with gathers data here I use the read aloud so some data is condensed. There are links to all resources.

Sunlight Sensitivity. You have disadvantage on attack rolls and Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of the attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight.

Sunlight Sensitivity: And here’s where the other shoe drops. Because drow are so well-adapted to life in the dark, their ability to see and function in direct sunlight has been severely compromised. Disadvantage on attack rolls and Wisdom checks that rely on sight is a huge drawback, requiring careful planning to negate, especially if your party is full of humans with their stupid human skin and stupid perfect tans.

It should be noted that drow can, through training, experience, and repeated exposure, become accustomed to light, and use both normal and infravision. This process takes about ten years. The only encountered drow likely to be immune to the detrimental effects of light (given in the Monstrous Compendium drow entry) are veteran surface-raiders and wizards (who traditionally study by candlelight).

LOL and your party level was what? when they were fighting this 17th level ghost medusa? I think I started in 1980 My sister got me to play with her biker friends. I played a thief oh good times such good times LOL. That Cockatrice is adorable for a demon chicken! You would think they might have been able to do something about the petrification. I looked up and read about the 6 part adventure, was it not in a large city? there was not a single Nonplayer character around to do the stone to flesh? I mean it is one thing to get killed and go oh will here is my next character taking it all in stride. I mean stuff happens I guess I think differently because I played in the 80's it was a totally different game then this one.

MathMuse wrote:

Ah, I have seen Lorkan post here before. I looked up his ealier posts. The first was five months ago in September 2022. He had asked in Got petrified, now what? about his character being petrified by a cockatrice. He started that post with, "Hi, my group is very new to Pathfinder," so Lorkan has less tnan a year of PF2 experience.

I wonder whether that petrification was one of the character deaths. The cockatrice's Calcification is a temporary effect, since 3rd-level characters don't have access to Stone to Flesh, but rolling a critical failure on the DC 20 Fortitude check for recovery results in permanent petrification that requires Stone to Flesh. And 11 days later he asked, Which class to play?- "So, my first character just died. Yey. I need a new one, but I don't know that much about the different classes."

Yeah, the campaign has been rough on Lorkan's characters.

Yep bad luck and in turn has made them disillusioned to the game to the point of just killing off their characters. Then again it appears they really need help making one. From what I read of the quest line it would not be one I would have beginners play. I seem to remember someone saying the gamemaster was good but can't remember who said that.

I feel it would have gone better to have that person run through a few lower-level adventures then after some time have them run this adventure.. A shame we do not have the full story I would have be happy to aid them in crafting a better character more suited to their beginning style.

sending amateurs after Madusa LOL doohh..

You are making me the bad guy and I know it is a fitting tactic that works. I could say the same thing, you killed my character, and you refuse to allow the cleric to ask their god to resurrect me? You would rather cheat and magically teleport another character into the dungeon, so your campaign does not fail do to your unyielding rigid standards on death has to be permeant. You get to cheat so your campaign can continue, and the game become less about consequences for your actions because the charters have little value.

Once again I am ok with the whole cheating thing. I just switch tactics and play in a different style. I do not get to make the rules they're your rules if human life has no value then I am ok with that. You want the ability to replace characters so your campaign does not fail. If I am ok with it and the tables ok with it then it's ok with everyone. I just will not get invested in my characters in which my style will become reckless and bold. When I die the party can search my body get 9 gold pieces and a fighters kit worth of gear a long sword and a dagger. They in turn can sell me back my other characters stuff and get 5 more gold and we continue with the mission. We all laugh at the irony and giggle for a bit I am good with that I will be having fun.

You make valid points I was addressing. Yes we do not know enough about what is transpiring at this one's table. We only have one person's information who clearly said they throw away the 3rd character.

I said early on that the gamemaster was not stepping up. they are the master if the one player is not building viable characters it is the gamemaster that should learn the player to craft better character. "a Sorcerer does not become a front-line melee brawler" I agree in which the gamemaster should have addressed this or given the player a fighting character it comes to crafting a viable character the fits the style of the player.

If you make it so the characters cannot be replaced is stops the evil game master from specifically targeting that one player and their characters. Your way rewards the gamemaster for acting in the manner. If the campaign fails because of character deaths it fails. Just like you all are going on and on about deaths of characters are part of the game. Which it is you die it's over. You kill all of your players it's over. You do not get to replace characters with poof characters it cheapens the game. You are cheating as simple as that. you could have just cut a finger off and have the character resurrected but no you reward bad behavior from either side. There is no longer and consequences.

Don't get me wrong cheating it great you can play without worrying about dying. You just stop getting attached to the characters. It is just another style of play. We use to call it power playing in the army. we go tell were dead.

Like I said before they both need to sit down and talk this out to resolve the bottom line issues. I was of thought the original poster was a beginner which places the issue at the feet of the gamemaster they are not stepping up. You can continue to argue it is not their job but it is they are the gamemaster.

Thank you for taking time to debate the topic and for putting out thoughtful opinions. I still think there should be consequences for both gamemaster and players once you remove that it is a completely different game.

If you were to cut me from your game for using this form of play style, it would mean I came to the conclusion you where the type of gamemaster I would need to alter my playing style by using character I am not invest in. Because it would no longer matter about leveling or experience points it is about achieve the objective at any cost "the ends justify the means". It would not matter to you if I died. I did my part in the game. You would never know I made cannon fodder characters. I would not fuss or be bothered in the least. I would be laughing and going "dohhh...oppss let me see if I have another character made up." There is nothing to be upset about characters take 5 minutes to craft.

It would be on you if we all kept dying but we didn't freak out we just pulled out another fighter to keep going. If you were a bad gamemaster you most likely would not have to cut me from your game I would just pack my things and wish you a good night and leave.

It's a game I am there to have fun if it is not fun then it is time to call it a night and go do something fun.

it is refreshing to haver some one like you to have an intelligent conversation about the game. If you think I singled you out or you think my opinion is a bad one pointed at the original posters gamemaster I am sorry.

How ever I thought I had stayed on topic.

original poster wrote:
But now I feel burnt out on character ideas on ideas how to RP, etc. My character has no investment and, most importantly, I have no investment in the campaign.

Some of my posts addressed the disconnect between losing a treasured character and a broken system that just poofs magically upgraded replacements. It rather fall into styles of playing how a game master plays and runs their game. I repeatedly stated I am fine with the whole magic pooking as I can change my style of playing and just not get invested in one character. I timed it, it took all of 5 minutes to make a replacement. My personal feelings about a game master not having any consequences for killing off characters is just about style of play and a broken system. If a character dies their dead you need to relevel a new character not reward bad playing.

for an example I could make a bunch of lame redshirt characters use them as cannon fodder get the campaign to level 20 then kill my character on purpose to replace them with my cherished character play of all of an hour and walk away with a poofed zero XP 20th level rogue assassin.

It is what it is people play the way they want if human being can be replaced without loss, then it has no value no risk and in the end no interest in the game.

I am ok with any way the game master wants to play they simply have to take my style of playing in stride I am not going to get invested in the characters if I know I can simply replace them with a better one at higher levels and be rewarded.

Conquerors blade comes to mind an awesome game you feed your army into a meat grinder or fend off the attacking army. solders died and poof replacements to bad it was a Russian game it was super cool.

Any way I would like to personally thank you for taking time to respond and I very much enjoyed your story. Once again if I offended you I am sorry. I appear to be gathering a haters club once more I would hate to have you become displeased with me to the post you no longer wish to engage me in intellect correspondence.

It is ok If you are confused about me expressing an opinion about what I perceive as a flaw in the system. In the beginning you know in the late 70's early 80's bad rolls are part of the game it was all about good or bad rolls when you craft a character it was luck to roll an awesome character and bad when you had to use low numbers. Characters with a 2 charisma.

There is no risk to either side of the game. The Gamemaster does not risk having a failed campaign if he just plops down a poof boosted character replacement piece. You put in to place a demigod group of players that no longer invest in their minions. Like the Greek gods humanity is their chess pieces, and the world is the chess board. They stopped putting them self in the place of the characters and play a role with fears of losing all that they have done.

You have a king god gamemaster bored with the role play and more interesting in the cress board. There are a lot of games like that Risk comes to mind you do not invest in a board piece you use them and loss them then replace them because you dehumanized them. You no longer think of them being human they are just numbers.

I said I can play that type game I step away from the role play game craft an army of disposable characters all the same, Young strong male youth I hand them a sword call them a fighter and feed them to a meat grinder. I no longer invest in the crafting of the character once you stop doing that it really does not matter if that game piece dies you simply take another one out of the many in your portfolio zero XP level one poof current level with the full knowledge of the dead character. Kind of like the cylons. They go in to battle with the knowledge they will die and then be uploaded to a new body they become fearless as they are now godlike deathless.

There is a saying we had when I was racing dirt bikes. "it is not if you crash it is when you crash." if you're not crashing, you're not crossing over the line of safety you are not racing.

I can make a couple hundred basic male human characters in an hour. I can play as a malevolent player playing a ruthless demigod who laughs as he just rips the dead characters sheet in half and pulls out a new one. A Golarion god would judge their dead cleric and may gift them a resurrection so they might continue they deeds of good to better humanity.

A murderous gamemaster faces no consequences if they continually kill off all the characters and then replaces them with a poof character their campaign continues, and they have bragging rights on the mass of dead character bodies. "I play a hard game you'll not see mercy or any of the resurrection none sense in my game! See this party has gone through 138 characters and my campaign is flourishing! We can make a new character in under five minutes with this new digital app." If they were faced with ending their campaign until they raise the new level one characters to the needed level to continue the failed campaign. You would have an elevated game with high stakes for both sides. You would have a gamemaster that would use the avenue's for resurrecting dead veteran champions.

You can be mad at me for seeing the cold blooded side of the flawed game and villainize me for pointing out that I am OK with that form of game play. Making characters on line takes minutes now. You no longer need a gamemaster to roll up a character to bear witness to the roll. Soon there will be artificial gamemasters. That will resolve a lot of issues. you died "your fight is over" (from the 100 tv show) please start over. There will not be a game master shortage where you just have to deal with murderous malevolent gamemasters and cold-blooded demi-god players.

Either way I am game just let me know how many cannon fodder characters I need in my folder. Thank you for your time! It is nice to have intelligent conversations with people that stay on topic!

The biggest problem with the poof magic new character leveling is that the Gamemaster is not held accountable and has free license to murder-hobo the whole lot and just pop in Newly crafted characters. If you kill off the whole party your done your campaign failed miserably.

If you all want to continue on you get a 1st level character and the whole party carries you or you start over with another group. There has to be penalties for a bad gamemaster.

I crafted a cannon fodder character today I called him Red Shirt #001. a basic 16 year old farm hand human male. The idea is that human life has no meaning to the game master or the players if you just get to continue on with information you gathered with a now dead character. The player turns in to a malevolent god who is usings humanity as chess piece. you just keep throwing bodies into a meat grinder. The fear of a failed campaign is gone you know you can just replace the dead with fresh cannon fodder.

When characters stop being cherished as prized characters their just chess pieces and human life has little to no meaning the game becomes boring you lost you ultimate most favorite character now you just stop caring and burn through bodys to reach the objective no matter the loss of life. You become the monster.

There is no longer a fear of your character dying you get a new one and you continue of tell it is time to craft yet another one. I mean I can play that way I just admit I am playing as an extremely evil entity, and I throw away humans with no regard, I win in the end with a huge body count but the last character I use that comes out alive is level 20 Red Shirt #496 a 16 year old human farmboy poofed from beginner zero XP to 20th level champion in three hours play.

You do sound like an awesome gamemaster I am just pointing out how I see it. I can play a very evil god and I can craft a lot of minions all dumb as stumps but strong as Ox's then shove them in to the gamemasters meatgrinder. It's like paper money when you need more you just print it it has no value.

I did craft it I have a working character. No matter what other people's opinions are, there are certain inevitable facts. Drow are Elves that live in deep caverns. I can call my people anything I want it does not change the fact that they are elves. I do not like the whole evil demon radiation poisoning thing but whatever. My Characters been on the surface long enough to recover from the "evil Radiation".

People are people you have those who have to follow laws and you have the free spirted ones that run with chaos. No Matter I have two choices play or not play and I am perfectly ok with choosing not to play. There are other things to play or find entertaining. It is rather easy to just walk away from Pathfinder there are other games.

Dying is irrelevant you just get another Character at the same level. It is not my fault the game is flawed. If you pick the same boxes the abilities and everything remain the same. So this guys bob the guy that dyed was bill. Bill had brown hair and brown eyes where are bob here is a blonde hair and has blue eyes. Bill was a short overweight few whereas Bob here is much taller and if fit as a lumber jack. Bill likes ugly women whereas Bob here like them big burly and manly looking tall as a mountain and able to have monsters for babies. see not the same character totally different.

If you going to tell people what they can and can't play for characters, then it is time to walk away from the game. Forcing people to play an allowed character is not how the game was intended. You might as will make the character yourselves and give it to the person and say if you want to play you have to play this character.

If characters are dixie cups and are completely disposable, then the players do not get invested and soon grow bored with crafting 1 or 2 new character each time they play.

But what do I know I just have my opinions. I do know if I am not having fun and everyone wants to control me and how I play or what character they are going to allow me to play I would just find another game.

For the record I was not "Nitpicking" I was noting the old school term of rolling up character. I did not say the Gamemaster had to craft backup characters I said the Game master was not stepping up in other ways. Thats just my opinion. I never said anything about a twin avenging a fallen sibling. I said you can just make another character picking all of the same boxes and crafting an exact duplicate of the dead character so much so you could just erase the dead characters name and just write in the new name. You are just going to jump the new character up to the current level. Just make simple names like Bill, Bob, Tom, Roy, redshirtguy. Saves time and you do not have to craft a new character you could just have multiple character sheets filled out in advance you just fill in the new name.

My point was if you are just going to magic poof a new character to level 15 you might as will just resurrect the old character.

As it stated the original poster said they just throw away the 3rd character so they kind of put the whole party one person short. Had the gamemaster stepped up and resurrected the first character the original poster might still be engaged and still having fun.

Once again if it is no longer fun then it is not worth playing. It is between the player and the gamemaster. This is a game it is by design to be fun the gamemaster failed the player the play failed the party by carelessly throwing away the 3rd character. Issues need to be addressed or they need to find other parties. If the players are that rigid, then maybe the original poster should seek out other gamemasters.

arguing over this is futile we all have opinions you have yours I have mine that person who posted the thread has theirs.

Dooo deee dooo hummm Roll up new characters.. once again the Gamemaster is not stepping up. There is no "rolling" In making characters you just pick the numbers and craft the same toon. So basically, erase the old name write in another and hand the "new" Character to the Gamemaster.

It might just be me but if your just going to give a new character a free level boost to the current level you could just simply have the old character resurrected by a deity or high-level cleric and save a great deal of time crafting a whole new character you don't want to play that gets an instant level raise. It is like the whole World of Warcraft level boosts yes you are level 90 but your toons not built you have no crafting.

Question to the original poster do you think you might have been less careless with your character if you were allowed to have it resurrected?

I would suggest you ask if you can resurrect your first character or just stop playing the adventure. You just have to talk it out with your gamemaster as clearly what you have now is not working for you and if it is not fun then it is not worth playing.

I am still exploring the pathbuilder site there is a onetime fee of 5.99 USA to unlock advance features phone aps are extra purchases. So what I take it all the custom features unlock for 6 dollars. you can go there on your home computer browser and craft for free and check it out I have been using it to explore crafting characters.

I can see your point Sorry if I am ill-mannered and seemingly wrong about everything. With good people like you and the others to point out what I misunderstood or misinterpreted or even the things I preserved wrong you are in away educating all the others in the reality of what is true and what I got wrong. A silver lining of sorts.

I just walked away from the whole premade lore world of Golarion and made my own Drow character. as Long as I do not run it in the Golarion setting it works. I was however very curious on how the original poster was going to resolve all the little issues I ran in to where they intended to run the campaign and the dynamics of the campaign.

I am once again sorry about my transgressions and I will strive to do better.

Having just looked in to the 6 part series I have to ask what adventure are you trying to play in with a 1st level character.

The first adventure Devil at the Dreaming Palace is the starter at 1st level. How ever the second adventure Sixty Feet Under is a 4-5th level adventure. All or Nothing is a 9th level Assault on Hunting Lodge Seven is 12th level Belly of the Black Whale is 15th level Ruins of the Radiant Siege is 18th level!

I can see your not going to have any chance of playing along if you are in the deep end of the pool with a beginner character at level 1.

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Oh dear do I really come off that badly. You know I never even thought about using magic I just wanted the rich history and dominate female lead race you know leather and a whip, poison from a back-stabby society.

Awesome another code user this is a simple format you only need to use a letter not the whole word just saying it is so nice when people use the features!

Anyway I am old school D&D 80's child I have a great deal of learning if I were to pick up paper Game Mastering in Pathfinder. I had little luck trying to get a 1st edition D&DA game going or find one for that matter.

I do not mean to steamroll the forum with negative statements. I am sorry if I came across that way. I simply point out what I see and the flaws I find. As I said I have a lot to learn.

In the end I just like dark broody characters and, in an age, where you think "you know some people just need killing" an assassin seams way more fun to play. I just wanted a whip some daggers, a blowgun and poison not a super powerful can do everything character. I mean my Drow is 4foot 2 inch's weighs 70 pounds soaking wet.

Not by far a all-powerful god like toon with regenerative healing powers like DeadPool which now that I think about it would be AWESOME!!! But no just a disillusioned trained killer with no friends of family searching for her lover. bluh bluh bluh No worries though Like a wise man says I know nothing and learn from all.

Thank you for you kindness, I will strive to do better in my postings

a bunch of gnomes in a trench coat. Do you mean the Three halflings in a trench coat fighter archetype?

Disgruntled about the content short jokes and jabs, three brave halflings decide to turn the tables on the tall folk. Armed with a trench coat and balance, these halflings are ready to change their destiny.

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"a bunch of old tropes in your comfort zone" huh interesting "they don't all align with the base setting of this game." huh "Foundry, Pathbuilder let you homebrew feats, items, backgrounds, and more." I take it those are paid features? "The most successful PF2 AP features evil Drow and flesh warping, but also a neutral Drow settlement you're meant to ally with." I take it you cannot be one of the "Neutral Drows"

No matter I shelved the character as nonplayable or not compatible with the base setting of the game. Like I said I could read up on set history of the lore but I do not want to. It is much easier to just not play and avoid conflict.

I may have brought over things from the other thread thoughts, arguments. But it is not really worth the trouble. if ever I wish to run my Drow it would have to be as a Gamemaster and her a nonplayer character but we both know that is never going to happen so she is just a character sheet on my world wide scrap book much like all my other crafted toons.

I would like to thank you for keeping it civil and I am sorry if I came across badly I have ran in to negative feed back and might be a bit on edge dare I even say a bit pouty over not being allowed my rogue assassin Drow. Once again I am sorry thank you for your advice and time.

Game Masters are rare and far in-between from good to extremely bad. To find an in-person game is even harder. It is hard to just walk away knowing full well you might not find another game or dare to say be blacklisted for being a difficult player.

"Oh that person yea hard to please not very good whines a great deal dies often you might avoid bring them to your game." bluh bluh bluh

This reminds me I have to watch that "The Dark Side of D&D: The Dungeon Master Crisis" video I seen yesterday. Anyway it is extremely hard to find good reliable people to play with.

They need to address the issues that are cussing the deaths if the game is not fun people just stop playing and not just playing with that group they simply move on to better games without all the issues that could not be over came.

it is totally with in the Gamemasters discretion to pull punches or make it so players survive the encounters. If the GameMaster is delighting in the extreme body count of dead players characters and is the bragging rights of that gamemaster that they run a hard game. Then your only option as a player is to craft 100's of characters of the same character or just care an eraser and simply erase the name Bill from the dead characters character sheet and write Bob. Start over as a new cannon fodder for the horribly bad Gamemaster.

If falls on the Gamemaster no matter what no matter the circumstances, they are either favoring the others by giving them weak carry me toons and the cannon fodder takes all the hits. They might even be doing it to drive the one player away from their game.

I find myself intrigued by the sheer amount of deaths in the campaign. What character type are you playing? It sounds as if your playing at a level that is higher then you are at a continually beginning levels. It sounds like all the others have survived and leveled and yet your stuck with cannon fodder first level characters.

I did see a short on youtube where the Character gave DNA to a high level cleric with instructions to resurrect them if they failed to appear in a couple months.

You might sell your soil to a malevolent demon to continually resurrect your dead body or give you Deadpools power. You might just make 100 bland characters with no history or put any thought in to the creation then just throw them away in play with little care or effort. Maybe cover yourself in oil and then light yourself and jump at the monster. Become super creative with lots of ways to kill your self in game to make it fun again When your character dies you simply pull out another and show the Gamemaster they are failing in the endeavors and the game in no longer fun. You can call the characters Bob, Pat, Bill, Pete, Spot, Ralf, Meatsack or even redshirtguy. It is up to the Game Master to make the game fun if they are not able to do that then you might seek out another one. It is not hard to make 100 fighters with mundane names and all the same stats. At some point the game is not going to be fun for them either and something well change.

Being a subservient, catering to the party and not playing is not the answer you are there to have fun and play the game.

In the end you really need to talk to the Game Master and tell them your not having fun anymore.

You could do a Dr. Zachary Smith… act like a coward and show a willingness to betray your party or strait out run in the face of danger but you need a high deception and a high performance once the mob thinks you harmless and not a threat they will attach the others shielding you and allowing you to cast unnoticed. you can attack at distance in no harms way you just have to have willing cannon fodder for you to take the damage for your character.

But with the game as it is you are not able to raise multiple abilities to 18,
you are using your points to max out intelligence where you need charisma to max your deception and performance. Best to just admit that you are a carry me character who is weak at lower levels but still have skills to bring to the party. Talk to your party about how best to support the party and how they might be able to watch over you the tank should not have issues with this but people do not like a player using them as cannon fodder continuously throwing them under the bus will get out very quickly.

Dooo deee dooo Dark Elves?!! awesome.... ok so I am going to add hummm let me see oh yea my 2 cents. Just coming from a topic thread about Drows which was AWESOME!!!

You people i mean the whole of Pathfinder need to figure out what the history's about and pick a lane. Is the society a Matriarchal Theocracy (rule by religion and women) organized into Houses? If so you might make females more dominant arrogant better educated. As men are considered lesser.

Drow conflicts are more Machiavellian in style; with quiet assassinations in dark alleys or secret hidden strike forces obliterating a rival house in a single night. If one house should make such an overt attempt to destroy another and fail in the attempt, that attacking house will then be destroyed by the entire drow city for its perceived weakness. Weakness is not tolerated. Of course, if the attacked house was weakened enough by the attacker, the community at large might choose to consume it as well.

So you have a house of card cloak and dagger society. The whole Elf Heritages are kind of lame due to the fact it gives you nothing but Darkvision or the laughable Wandering Heart feat for a race raised in a cavern. but given the Drow are the decedents of the Ancient Elves turned by a demonic influence with its evil demon radiation. Their just Ancient Elves once you get them away from the evil demon radiation. Basically, the whole heritage thing super complicates the game with no need or reason. So picking cavern from any of the others makes little different in the character. You just get dark vision.

Background would change things given a cloak and dagger ones character would have the Emissary kind of background trained in the Society skill, and a Lore skill related to one city you've visited often. You gain the Multilingual skill feat.

There is a great deal you can do with homebrew. But given the extreme limitations of the new and ever-expanding digital game this game is evolving into you can't very from the chosen paths and still play digitally online. On paper you can do whatever you want given you have a flexible gamemaster.

I to wished to make a Drow but due to the demonizing of the race in general it makes it impossible to run the character in the new and improved Golarion world. You are an outcast evil monster warped by a evil demon and it appears to be hunted down and killed for being inherently evil.

Where are you planning to have your homebrew campaign setting? Are you the gamemaster? Given if it is homebrew are you planning on using the whole history of the Drow or just the rigid fixed pathfinder 2e version? It sounds as if you seek to make player characters. Sorry if this did not help, I am starved of intellectual conversation and wish to learn about the intricacies of this evolving game.

Dooo deee doooo oh hello there! I would like to say you all have been AWESOME!!!!! You all have been so very helpful and kind! Such great advice and you all have been very patient with me. You people are AWESOME!!! awesome awesome awesome...

I know I am broken and all and I have a twisted sense of humor. My personality is a bit eccentric and my point of view on the world might be a bit to the dark side of things.

How ever I been learning a great deal on crafting characters not that I have everything figured out or know all of the extensive details. I have been very busy making different characters to get insight into the classes. The latest one is a Fetchling Witch everything was going swimmingly tell I was at the cantrips and spells part. I watched the guy Nonat1s a couple time on his Witches 101 video. bluh bluh bluh so I get to pick 4 cantrips and two spells from my patron or familiar. do I only have the ones 4 and 2 or do I get to pick from the whole list and can only retain 4 and 2 a day without talking to my familiar? The Familiar is the one that remembers the spells is it limited to the 2 for now? The Character seems weak having access to only two spells.

Anyways I do not wish to be a bother or overstay my welcome you all have been so very nice to me and your replies are most appreciated. I do hope all of your advice is helping others as it has helped me! Thank you for your time!

Dooo deee doooo oh hello there Damn glad to see you here and posting! awesome! I was beginning to wonder it is weird how my posts seem to be in a magic maze of ever-changing parameters. Anywho I Digress.

Let discuss! Oh the joy of good old debating and discussion of topics it is in part of what makes us sentient life-forms. The term monster is a derogatory term a creature that is typically large, ugly, and frightening I know a lot of humans that fit that description. It boils down to the us and them upbringing we get from own society. It is our small mindedness that is the issue on so many levels and is continually perpetuated. I mean I love Chevy trucks because my dad told me "there the best and ford sucks." Do Ford truck suck in my opinion yes why because I was educated by my father that they suck do they really no they are good trucks.
We call things animals, but they are all in some way sentient beings that we are just not smart enough to communicate with yet. In the future we might finally communicate with the life-forms and find out that they are way smarter then us.
A baby is born it is not a monster you just can't speak with it because it has not yet learned to use its vocal cords it has spent 9 months lessoning though. is it evil? No evil is raised and indoctrinated into the beliefs of the society it is raised in. It is raised to believe the religion, politics, social behaviors. We Americans are educated with a politicly controlled system. We were indoctrinated. I remember having to say the pledge of allegiance having to practice duck and cover because the evil people over there are going to bomb us. Our history was altered we were lied to our entire lives. We were molded into what we are as adults.

When you say things like Less then half human it shows a form of bigotry it is not half human it is less then half. if you look at Elves they are humanoid as are Dwarfs, Gnomes and such. The Drow are Humanoid's as well they are not "Monsters" they are sentient beings with a history and working society they are highly educated and are not born inherently evil. The word humanoid defines as "having human form or characteristics."
Animals are self-aware all animals could be considered intelligent. Animals are able to learn and, in other words, adapt to their environment.
Take for example my Half Fire Giant half human his father was a captured lawful good fighter he was made a slave to fire giants he breed with a female fire giant she gave birth and then she helped the fighter and child escape. The human fighter raises the half fire giant half human to be Lawful good raised in a military way as all fire giants. Given his upbringing he would be a lawful good person with no evil alignment. No more human then fire giant he would simply be a person. Granted the society it which it was raised in would determine his personality hatred, intolerance, bigotry, selfishness, greed, religion all would be what would form the personality of the offspring.
If Xelphen my female Drow were to breed with a elf they are both elves' and if given the conception and bearing of said child were outside of the radiation of the underworld the child would be a normal white elf.

It is nice to have an intelligent conversation about things. I am sorry if this did not read will I am not trying to offend. I am grateful for your time you spent writing and I look forward to reading you and other players thoughts on alternative player character creations. Thank you for responding!

I remember when Grimm first aired. the doer of good fighting the evil monsters. A show about fairy tales and monsters. I remember hours of fun on the IMDB message board talking about how evil the Grimms were.

I am a notorious Shipper I shipped Trip and T'Pol on startrek.com. So when Adalind made eye contact with the Grimm in the very first episode I was hooked and there is where the ship began it's journey. A hexenbiest and a Grimm the whole site went sideways. and so the argument of being born inherently evil as a race or is evil raised to be evil.

Evil is in how things are perceived in this case a history of a genocidal magical race hunting down and killing all Wesen. Yes the Hero a genocidal killer of innocent Wesen. A century old war between the human race and the Wesen most of whom just want to live out their lives not getting killed by a crazy blood thirty Grimm. Poor little Wesen children raise to fear the black eyes evil Grimms and for good rason the Grimms were genocidal mass murders of thousands even millions of Wesen.

Throughout the show poor Adalind was so abused by her mother, Captain Renard, the royals and yes even the blood line of Nicks! They stole her first born child.

It has a lot to do with the us and them frame of mind we are all raised to believe in. We are the good people those people over there are the bad people. We are raised to hate those other "evil" people as they raise their children to hate us the evil people doers here.

In the end Adalind was a good mother and a good mate to the Grimm as the Grimm crusaders of old took Hexenbiest wives. The Grimm powers came from mating with the hexenbiest the same with the royals. Adalind was awesome a fine intelligent educated woman who raise two next generation Genocide Grimm crusaders!

In World of Warcraft there is the Horde and the Alliance both sides work as societies I do not see why we can't have Horde style Player Characters. I see a lot of people on youtube express their off opinion about how evil campaigning always goes horrible wrong. The GameMaster has a set perspective on horde style Player characters their all evil and eat babies alive so they sabotage giving the impression that if you are truly evil you are unworthy of trust and in the end you will turn on your party because that is what inherently evil people do. If you are not in this list of aproved good creatures then what ever you pick is evil.

So we do not get to play Drow or Trolls like in World of Warcraft or NeverWinter. Pathfinder did away with a lot of player characters with the new release of edition 2. I don't know maybe people are just inherently evil and can't get past the evil they wish to do hence the game designers did away with the player character races they perceive as inherently evil. We are so use to doing evil we no longer perceive ourselves doing it. "I had to pick the lesser of the two evils" By picking one you did evil you just rationalized it justified it then you downgraded doing evil to something less then evil. Never thinking not picking either was the right option.

I miss my female troll warrior. two Greataxes one in each hand neon purple hair braided a she hulk of death I killed many alliance players. The closest I can get to her here is a sad little orc. arrgggg the humanity. Oh well bluh bluh bluh.

Doo deee dooo ok that took a bit of time you change one little thing wrong in a sheet of code and everything goes fubar.

So did a lot of reading and playing about with all the characters I crafted. so Xelphen is a level 1 rogue dressed in leather armor trained in light and medium armor and has a dexterity of 18.

Armor Class is calculated using the following formula.
Armor Class = 10 + Dexterity modifier (up to your armor’s Dex Cap) + proficiency bonus + armor’s item bonus to AC + other bonuses + penalties

Armor class base of 10, +4 for dexterity, +3 for being trained in light armor and being a level 1 character, +1 for wearing leather armor = 18 which coincides with PathBiulder.

Taygete Nagaji Cleric level 1 Has a 10 dexterity, is trained in unarmored and is not wearing armor.
Armor Class base of 10, +0 for dexterity, +3 for being trained in unarmored and is not wearing any armor. = 13.

Training +2, +1 for level 1 = Proficiency +3. Is that right?

I was very intrigued about the Bounty Hunter theme, so I crafted a Female Orc Barbarian bounty hunter in hopes of exploring how to craft characters.

I been doing real life stuff so my time was divided between searching out data on things I yet do not understand. I have scabbed together forum code
tables to record the characters stats.

Earlier today I worked on the armor class table. I realized I did not understand how Pathbuilder was determining my AC numbers. Xelphen Drow Rogue Armor Class 18, Armor Class Base 10, Dexterity/Cap +4, Proficiency +3, Training trained, Item +1 her armor.
Trained in light armor +2, 18 dex so +4 +1 for wearing armor.

I do not know if I got that right because when I do Taygete Nagaji Cleric
Armor Class 13, Armor Class Base 10, Dexterity/Cap 0, Proficiency +3
Training Trained, Item -

Where does the proficiency number come from?

There are a lot of things I yet do not know and you all have been a great deal of help. I am of to play in forum code to see if removing the padding and spacing in the code makes the tables smaller and yet be easy to see the stat data still. Thank you one and all for you help!

I Did not make the connection of the letters after the dice nor did I understand the letters after the Versatile. So the P stands for piercing not slashing in this case. If I got that right. I was off researching things.

I am still learning how to use the Archives of Nethys. When I go to read the Core Rulebook by clicking the link Core Rulebook pg. 283 4.0 only to be sent to a marketing page when I thought the link would have do this Click here for the full rules on Base Weapons. You instead have to navigate through the menu and have a working knowledge of the sites workings.

Looking at my character sheets I made they make more sense now I was always wondering what the s was for after Versatile. Very interesting very very interesting the things we learn.

I was of thought Dagda Orc Barbarian would be able to use her GreatAxe to bludgeon and pierce if victim was struck with the flat of the blade and out stabbed with the spike in the end of the handle.

Source Core Rulebook pg. 279 4.0
This entry lists the weapon’s damage die and the type of damage it deals: B for bludgeoning, P for piercing, or S for slashing.
I Stand corrected. It is a bludgeoning weapon there seems to be no reason to pick slashing or piercing if there is no other rolls like 1d6 persistent bleed damage.

Sorry for being wrong I should not comment as I do not know how to play or be a Game Master.

Could you please point out where it says Bludgeoning.

Favored Weapon Ayrzul, Milani, The Godclaw, Tlehar
Price 1 gp; Damage 1d6 B; Bulk 1
Hands 1
Category Simple
Group Club; Traits Versatile P
This weapon has a short shaft ending in a metal ball studded with spikes.
Versatile P:
A versatile weapon can be used to deal a different type of damage than that listed in the Damage entry. This trait indicates the alternate damage type. For instance, a piercing weapon that is versatile S can be used to deal piercing or slashing damage. You choose the damage type each time you make an attack.

Critical Specialization Effects
Source Core Rulebook pg. 283 4.0
Certain feats, class features, weapon runes, and other effects can grant you additional benefits when you make a Strike with certain weapons and get a critical success. This is called a critical specialization effect. The exact effect depends on which weapon group your weapon belongs to, as listed below. You can always decide not to add the critical specialization effect of your weapon.

Morningstar mase Source Core Rulebook pg. 280 4.0, Critical Specialization Effects Source Core Rulebook pg. 283 4.0 I do not have Access to the core rulebook myself I can only post what I found on Archives of Nethys. I cannot say this is all the data for that weapon as Archives of Nethys is known for only giving brief parts of the whole. Not to say bad things about Archives of Nethys it is an awesome site for most information. But it is missing vast amounts of data needed for running a campaign as it repeatedly sends you off to the books needed to purchase to find the data you seek.

If you have the core Rulebook you might refer to that it may or may not very.

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I was expecting a Blunt impact damage as it is in the club group but it only lists piercing and slashing. I can only surmise that the Club group You knock the target away from you up to 10 feet (you choose the distance). This is forced movement. The forced movement would only apply to a piercing attack from the blunt impact hence picking the style of attack when making your attack action roll.

In the case of the Morningstar mace with metal ball studded with spikes. were you two swing it to graze the opponent it would slash open the skin hence slash damage if one where to swing to hit the opponent with a direct blow the spikes pierce the flesh, hence piercing damage. You choose the damage type each time you make an attack. the damage is the same 1d6 but the effect of the type of damage is determined by the attack style. If you pick piercing, you might pierce their armor and get the mace stuck in their armor.

One attack keeps the weapon is motion the other stops the ball as it slams into the target.

Bounty Hunter Dedication is intriguing but the Assassin Dedication fits well with the "loner outcast" cavern (Drow) elf build and supports the rogue class. I "fixed the whole stiletto pen cost thing with crafting a simple wooden hair pieces in the shape of a long thin knife xelphen-rogue-assassin "Braided into her braids are two long slender hairpins finely crafted from red wood styled in the shape of stiletto daggers one in each braid the hilts showing like decretive hair pieces. One dripped in deadly neurotoxin the other in a powerful hallucinogen." Made from Bloodwood if ever you seen bloodwood it is a very lovely color and is a very hard dense wood. I thought it fitting for a rogue assassin.

But like everything else in the game it is up to the Game Master if I get to keep them and use a bullwhip... =)

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Dooo deee dooo I was deeding login in this morning as I expected a great deal of weird feedback posts, But I found you all have very valid points to your perspective.

What is evil, it is a perspective of the one who is in judgment. One never thinks their doing evil because they rationalize then justify it and then the evil, they do in their mind is not doing evil. But they are doing evil in the eyes of others with a different perspective.

I know that sounds crazy right but if a space alien were to judge us humans, they in their perspective might think the whole human race was evil as we kill everything, plants animals everything but on the other hand they may perceive humans as a food source that taste good with baby rays sweet BBQ sauce. I could point out all the of the woes of man to prove the point that all humans are evil. But that would be futile as others will rationalize actions of the evil doers then justify everything and make it less then evil.

Is a race inherently evil, No in my opinion no they are raised to be evil they become evil. Is the Drow inherently evil no I cannot argue Mythology if it keeps changing with every new edition. I do not have the new very expensive books to read so I rely on the enormous amount of information provided by the world wide network.

I could argue the whole multi universe thing but I think debating that the Game it that a game. It is D&DA 3.5 version. Pathfinder was much like the Dragonlance series or the Grayhawk series. The books give you a reference here are some races we pre-crafted and here is a bunch of things to kill and here is a world map we made so you can just plop your campaign anywhere and just play. We even made it easier by giving some brief background history, so you do not get bogged down having to make up an entire world.

So basically, I am game master I want my world to have some of this some of that and oh yea a lot of this other stuff from another RPG. turn on the mixer and let's make some cookies. It is fine if you do not like my world, you have freewill and you can either play or choose not to.

Some people color in coloring books as it is a premade picture to be colored. There are paint by numbers crafts that people paint using all the right colors provided. They are those that draw their own coloring pictures or paint a work of art from a blank canvas. In the end you have freewill you can paint the picture in all the right colors, or you can paint the colors where you think they should go. You could just paint a blank canvas using paint already made.

There are 9 editions of Role-playing games D&D, D&DA 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3.5, Pathfinder 1st, D&DA 4th, 5th, and Pathfinder2e. Those are your paints what you choose to do with those is all up to you. I have the full set of first edition dungeon's and dragons Advanced. I can pull all my books out and play a RPG I will just be using old paint.

Thank you everyone for taking time to read my thoughts and then taking time to comment. I am sorry if this thread got Highjacked. In the end it is up to you and your Game Master what they allow and what you want to make the game entertaining and fun.

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I am sorry but changing the rules from 1st edition to 2nd edition should not change the history of the Golarion if it did then playing the game is a huge waste of time.

I posted about the Mythology from resources that clammed it was Pathfinder lore. I have extensively researched the Drow from 18th century when they were called Trow through the D&D lore and the pathfinder.

I never claimed they were all evil I can only speculate that if removed from Rovagug's evil radiation of the Darklands the Drow would return to a less evil alignment. But that is only based on the Pathfinder lore Not the D&D lore.

My Character Xelphen is a Drow with chaotic/neutral alignment. I wanted a Drow character, and I was told I was not allowed because of bluh bluh bluh reasons. In the end I just made a cavern elf with extremely dark black skin with silver hair and red eyes. It is a role playing game there are no set rules. If the Game Master says there is Drow characters, then there are Drow characters in his or her game. In a Role playing Game it is the Game Masters world, and they alone say what is and is not in their crafted world. Some color inside the lines some rewrite the lines and color where they think it should be colored in the colors of their choosing. Arguing about it is futile.

I never stated that the Elves were the only ancestry to stay behind either.

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Ok so just a few things Drow are full blooded elves the Drow, or dark elves, are the descendants of the elves who refused to abandon Golarion when it was discovered that the Starstone would hit the world. Unlike their cousins, they did not escape through a dimensional portal, but rather hid themselves in the Darklands below.

Half-drow, sometimes called darkborn by humans or thinblood by drow, are the equivalent of half-elves but derive their elven ancestry from drow. Half-drow are a taboo topic among the drow, and are generally the result of matings between drow matrons (or would-be matrons) and important humans.

Drow are cavern elves Rovagug, the god of destruction who had been imprisoned far below during the Age of Creation. As his wakened mind reached out, it touched the cave where the elves had sequestered themselves, and mixed with the Darklands' strange radiations and the elves' own feelings of betrayal and anger. It transformed them, turning their hair white and skin dark, and replaced the race's natural tendencies towards independence and good with Rovagug's evil; these elves became the first generation of drow. To be a half breed you would have to breed with a nonelven ancestry.... Just saying. =/

humm what is this oh sweet coding format codes! AWESOME! Xelphen oh oh oh this is sooo much better. for the most part normal forum codes.

Yes in the scheme of things 8gp it seems trivial, but the limit of 15 gold must be maintained plus I do not want an ink pen breaking in my silver hair. Large hair pins some dipped in neurotoxin others in hallucinogens would suit me just fine. Given their cheap losing them is not such a big deal whereas losing a 8 gold piece pen is.

intriguing the thought of walking down the street and then picking multiple people then act as if I to was stung by a wasp and act freaked out yelling wasp as I pick pocket people in the mass confusion as people trip out and run screaming. interesting very very interesting.

Dooo deee dooo I was so excited about the whole Stiletto Pen weapon I changed my description to fit it.

Petit, wiry, athletic, chiseled facial features with a sullen or scowling expression. Jet-Black skin tone, Long silver braided hair, piercing bright red eyes. Her Hair is braided in two warrior braids each running long the sides of her head and joined together behind her head. Braided into her braids are Stiletto Pen darts on in each braid. Her Leather armor in dyed very dark black as is her boots and gloves.

Then I went to post the item and stats to the profile post and found out it cost 8 gold pieces and is a fully functional pen. Is there a Stiletto hair pin I can ask the Game Master to substitute with as I only get 15 gold to start with.

Some of this stuffs is crazy I am of thought a dart you know throwing dart 6 inches long you get three, you throw them at the dart board but no it is this huge bulky monstrosity larger than an arrow but shorter than a javelin. doohhh.....

Xelphen is a Cavern Elf Hounded Thief Rogue Thief with aspirations in becoming an Assassin Dedication. I have a 18 dex trained in simple weapons as well as having Elven Weapon Familiarity.

The whole knowing when to roll and remembering all the bonuses and penalty's is what prevented my from DMing it is so intimidating people counting on me to know everything LOL bluh bluh bluh freaks me out.

looking for hair pin weapons but Archives of Nethys is sluggish. The thought of stabbing people with a hair pin is appealing to me even dare I say it in a tantalizing, very excitingly, morbidly dark and extremely disturbing way...

I love the whole sigh thing LOL I did state in my opinion.

So sneak attack -2 penalty off the Monsters AC lowers the to hit number and gives me a precision damage bonus 1d6 on a monster if I hit using my Trained Stealth at a +3 to my roll. -5 Multiple Attack Penalty off my roll for a second attack action with a +3 stealth profession bonus to hit the monsters AC that has a -2 penalty for being flatfooted? So my second attack would be an even roll as my +3 and their -2 cancels out the -5 Multiple Attack Penalty without any +1 or better weapons. Is that right?

What is it considered if I leap or rush attack and stab both daggers into the monster at once is that two attacks with 2 actions or just one action using my Twin Feint feat with the ability to use two more actions in the round? arrgg Archives of Nethys has crashed again. oh well I'll wing it Twin feint state stab once roll and attack again making it a two action feat.

I often refer to the alignment table when expressing my opinion on another people's play styles. players and Game masters all play in a style that fits they alignment. some color inside the lines some don't really care, and some change the lines and color where they in their own opinion color where it should be colored. Lawful people color inside the lines, Neutral people don't really care as long as it is fun. and chaotic people play to have fun and if changing or altering something to make a more amusing or entertaining game they will.

Not to say that a lawful person does not wish to change something to make it more fun or more entertaining, but they will ask first as where a chaotic will just change it and ask forgiveness later if caught. mind you this is just my misguided opinion.

Ravingdork made a point I was making as I was thinking of the whip in more than just a weapon to attack and do damage with. I color outside of the lines and to some appear to be an anarchist. the whip could be considered a theatrical prop used in a performance to distract or intimidate. It can be used as a rope to swing from a beam to avoid getting killed by a giant boulder. If you really think about it a whip could be used to seduced or could have a positive bonus to one's charisma as an accessory to one's black leather armor, stylish boots and leather gloves completing an outfit ensemble.

To fix the lawful good player I could just use my free general feat for Weapon Proficiency "You become trained in all simple weapons. If you were already trained in all simple weapons, you become trained in all martial weapons. If you were already trained in all martial weapons, you become trained in one advanced weapon of your choice." I am trained in simple weapons there for it jumps to martial weapons.

It is so very cool that I am learning all this cool stuff! Some rules are just broken like having a dual handed feat that automatically gives you a -5 penalty hence changing my class feat Twin Feint to Tumble Behind why would I want to attack with a second weapon if I am penalized with a 50% chance to critically fail. What is the point of having two daggers if it is considered two actions I could just simply stab again with the same dagger and have the same penalty I just save from wasting a class feat on a worthless feat and the added bulk of caring two daggers. Now if I had a whip in one hand and a dagger in the other It would not be useless anymore as I could use the whip as a "to hit" or a distraction, tant, or dare I say a seduction.

shroudb I was of the thought along the concept used in the movie Legend with Tom Cruise Oone played by Annabelle Lanyon appeared throughout the movie as a luminous sprite it was not tell later in the movie that she revealed she could alter her size at will.
Hense thinking how cool would that be to have a pixie as a companion somewhat intelligent like the two fey in the movie Willow both swimming in a tankard of beer. In my case I would have pixel more intelligent then Xelphen and has the opinion that Xelphen is her adorably cute pet elf, Xelphen is like Wednesday and Pixel is Enid. Xelphen dark loner outcast Pixel bright cheerful out going. The dynamic would be of great fun to play with.

My opinion is that this over site needs to be addressed and a chart or some form of clarification in the sizes a example or some form of comparison graphic.

These are just my personal opinions and thoughts with all of your advice I have learned a great deal and I continue to learn more each day with your help. Thank you one and all for taking time to read this thread and then to take your personal time to think about the topics and then express your thoughts, opinions and advice here. In helping me I am of hope you aid others in their endeavors! Thank you!

Three foot would be way to large for one Player to have essentially, I would be controlling two characters. I was going for a Fey who has was very tiny who has become infatuated with a silver hair dark skin goddess with bright red eye. Who for the most part is stalking her emulates her. Continuously striving to amuse and win over the dark skins goddess who appears to be immune to she 18 lv. charisma. blah blah blah She came out great for the most part worthy of playing as a character you can check it out https://xxsuperheroxx.freeforums.net/thread/380/pixel-rouge-sprite-pixie

I made a Melixie Bard to which is a tiny character. Pixies are fey that are barely a foot tall in 5eD&D which is extremely large for something that is supposed to be the size of a butterfly in 17th century mythology. so 3 feet is mind blowing a three-foot tall flying butterfly.

Thank you for taking time to respond. I am learning a great deal about the gaming and it's dynamics.

OK small updates I did find the Custom Ability feature sadly it does appear to be a premium feature. I got lost in coding for most of the day programming tables like character sheets but more like stat data charts Forum code is great tell you click the preview and then click back to the code page it gets ugly at that point a paragraph of codes with no spaces LOL fun! Then I did a color scheme then my OCD kicked in as it was the wrong color and spent a great deal of time switching color codes.

So I made a few other characters Theomacha and Pixel. Pixel is a Sprite Pixie I have been looking to see just how tall and weight a small character is with zero luck, there is absolutely no definition of how big tiny is or small. I was hoping for 5 inches a pocket-sized pixie that looks human what would be cool is a succubus like imp but I digress. No matter It was just a follow up to the companion comment I wrote earlier.

I read a book series once where a ancient wizard I think his name was fizzbin not really sure he had a ancient dragon familiar in which it turned out the dragon was the mistress and the wizard was the dragons familiar. It would be interesting to play Xelphen and Pixel each thinking their the mistress and the other is their pet.

It was great fun to craft the Pixel and Theomacha characters to familiarize myself with the pathbuilder and programming links on the sketch pad forum. bluh bluh bluh I am thinking up the back story for Pixel but might change things still as pixies sound to big. Thank you for your time and advice I am off to look up those classes QuidEst listed.

It is awesome! How you all picked up the whole John Wick aspect. Yes John Wick is a very high-level character in the movies and is a bit when I say a bit I mean way over the top unrealistic. The three movies are set in a short span of time in which Mr. Wick takes a great deal of damage.

I was off playing with the Pathbuild app in which one can pick ancestry, Background, class, and heritage from dropdown menus it automatically tallies your ability and skills it also sets the skill the given skills to trained or expert.

then gives me a racket drop down menu blow that it list my abilities like Low-Light Vision, Darkvision, Sneak Attack, Surprise Attack and my Free Feat: Pickpocket. The point I am trying to make it that the whole Gamemasters discretion has been completely removed from the game. There is no flexibility any more in the digital game. it is set in rigid unyielding forms. Which it becoming the future of this and other RPG games. Even though Paizo sold out 8 months of hardcover books in the last 2 week! A year ago my 1st edition D&DA books were worthless now they list at 100-300 and more dollars.

Yes I could have picked a brute type class to mimic John Wick but I was not envisioning John Wick I was making Xelphen a small 4-foot 2-inch Drow rogue assassin that is a solo adventurer. Than used stealth and cunning to approach and attacked with dual dagger weapons. Given when assassinating some one I am sneaky but when it is time to fight like a cornered rat then fear and intimidation are a key play in surviving. As well when in a group to tant and distract a monster takes it's attention away from the other party members and gives them an advantage. Do to a lot of limitations I found I cannot make Xelphen in Pathfinder2e. But I did learn a great deal about the game and it's limitations.

I was on Pathbuilder last night to craft Theomacha my ranger and Xelphens lover on Neverwinter. When the thought clicked it was after I had posted the above post about Mr. Wick that there is zero flexibility in the game even if I could talk a Gamemaster in to allowing me to be trained in an alternative weapon I cannot change it on the digital forms. I would have to follow the rigid rule format and have to wait multiple levels to pick up a feat skill to allow it to be listed and change stats in my digit form.

Weird is there in no slot in the Character sheep for gender in less the trait slot is for the characters gender but I was of thought that the trait slot was for humanoid. This is not even on the digital form so there's that.

Now Stiletto pen sounds pretty freaking AWESOME! I had delusional dreams of grandeur having something like Danny Trojos belt of knives in the movie Desperado but instead of cross handles mine would be small, barbed fish-hooked blades that cannot be easily removed and would have a repeat exposer to poison as long as the blade stayed imbedded. The whole thought of using them as climbing spikes on large Monsters with Twin Feint was very appealing. But I digress I am off to look up Stiletto pen (evil wicked grin)

Anyways you all have made very good valid points and yet more awesomely great advice! Note I really love the word awesome! Given the whole Mr Wick aspect I did look into the other player characters allow in which none appealed to me as of yet. The Spite how ever did make me want one as Xelphens companion. She could be the voice of reason and keep me from falling back into my evil chaotic ways but with a Deadpool personality. Thank you one and all for your time and advice you people are AWESOME!!!!

"I once saw him kill three men in a bar...with a pencil." As you can see game master an assassin is highly motived, extremely resourceful, Quick to improvise and adapt to any circumstances to overcome overwhelming odds with share tenacity and bravado.

Understandable the rogue class states simple weapons however the Archetype Assassin Dedication clearly states my agile and finesse weapons and unarmed attacks gain the backstabber and deadly d6 weapon traits when you're attacking your mark.

Which leaves one to believe that there is a small oversight in the rogues training as a dagger and a short sword are finesse weapons the sap and shortbow are Martial. The whip is listed under both Martail and finesse and rely on Dexterity to hit and strength for damage. My Character has a 18 ability score with a +4 modifier. Even without training which only means I do not receive a +2 modifier I should at the very least be able to crack the whip to tant, distract and or intimidate. It is you to your discretion to allow me to substitute one of the trained weapons listed for the whip. You would think that the whip would be an intricate part of the Drow matriarchal Society, but I digress.

Just saying if John Wick can kill three men in a bar with a number 2 pencil I should be allowed to carry a whip and look cool.

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What I just found out that is an invaluable tool is the browser speak aloud feature works for the Archives of Nethys site. What was a daunting task of reading a great deal of text turned in to a lovely audio book that I can lesson to as I clean up the crafting post for this toon. I thought I might share that for any who are interested in learning other aspects of the game or refamiliarizing themselves with other data. The reading thing was a deal breaker in the 90's for my dream of becoming a Dungeon master.

Thank you to who ever moved this thread and changed the title your timely aid and patience with my personality and my warped sense of dark humor. aloud me to get the advice I was seeking! The reawakened dream of possibly becoming a Game Master is alive!

Thank you!

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No worry on the whole whip thing. I did not expect it to be a special weapon in need of its own training class. I just thought it fit in with the whole dominatrix female lead society assassin intimidation concept. The rule lawyer comment is in a general way about all the people that drag down the fun with rules. With your help I learned a great deal and I am still learning so your help if it is still valuable is of great value to me. If Pathfinder wants to take a known race and change the complete history, then I guess they can though they might have thought to change the dark elves in to Trow or some other name. No matter I was looking in to altering my backstory to fit Pathfinder but there are issues with content between two history's and society's.

If and when I find local people to play with and a Game Master. I can make a more expectable character this is a learning curve character.

I am sorry if I offended you with my careless comment and I am thankful for your help.

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I have been researching Drow Society from a number of sources. it is a waste of my time to argue about fictional worlds. In the Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting Lolth based drow society is primarily matriarchal, it also states that "There are exceptions to the rule, of course. Some communities of drow worship other gods (like Vhaeraun or Eilistraee), and thus, their hierarchy changes, reverses the roles of males and females, or (such as in the case of Eilastree) even approaching something like a workable, progressive society. Drow societies can also vary vastly depending on the Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting."

I stated above I am not familiar with Golarion History. what I have read is that the Pathfinder Drow history mirrors the Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting history.

a group of elves fled into the Caves of the Craven below the Calphiak Mountains, Rovagug, the god of destruction who had been imprisoned far below during the Age of Creation. As his wakened mind reached out, it touched the cave where the elves had sequestered themselves, and mixed with the Darklands' strange radiations and the elves' own feelings of betrayal and anger. It transformed them, turning their hair white and skin dark, and replaced the race's natural tendencies towards independence and good with Rovagug's evil; these elves became the first generation of drow.

Given that strange radiation from an evil gods mind is what is making them black and evil I would think they would stop being evil when they get out of the radiated Darklands. bluh bluh bluh the whole radiation thing is kind of lame but what ever it is a nonissue now that we can't play Drows My preference is to have fun and I am having fun making a dominate female character who came from a matriarchal Society.

The game is not going to be fun if there is always going to be a rule lawyer saying "you can't do that because bluh bluh bluh.

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I been over playing on Pathbuilder I wish I had earlier as it works great! As I see it from crafting the toon there one skill feat from your background, one Class feats one Ancestry feat and one skill feat at level one. so I went with.
Pickpocket Background
Tumble Behind Class
Elven Weapon Familiarity Ancestry
Intimidating Glare skill feat

The whole Drow thing has been around sense Gary Gygax brought it in to the D&D game. You can play any race if your Game Master lets you In the Army I played a half human half fire giant with a back story and all. Human male fighter gets enslaved by a female Fire Giant he falls in love bluh bluh bluh I think his name was Thrain. But I digress we power played back then murder hobo kill everything kind of play.

This toon is crafted after my NeverWinter toons Xelphen and Theomacha.

Xelphen (female Drow rogue assassin) of house Aleanrahel, daughter of the High Priestess of goddess Araushnee now known as Lolth, the Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Banished from the UnderDark for betrayal to her house for taking a lover Theomacha of house Barrison'del'armgo. Theomacha (female Drow Ranger) of house Barrison'del'armgo assassinated Xelphen's mother the Hish Priestess of the goddess Araushnee and fled the UnderDark to the surface of Faerûn. Xelphen Left the UnderDark and wonders Faerûn looking for her love Theomacha. Raised in the high house of Aleanrahel she is trained as an assassin skill set and training knife fighting, knife throwing, poisons and dark magic. She is the Bringer of death

I play Female Characters The Drow are a Matriarchy a society ruled by females men in Drow society are treated as lesser citizens. They don't own property and they must marry into powerful households to gain power.

I think my build reflex's pretty good given a Chaotic Neutral out cast of noble birth I know my Neverwinter story plot will not work in the Pathfinder canon, but I have zero data to craft a working back story as of yet. I do have a great deal of Knowlege of the Drow from crafting the NeverWinter toons back story. Theomacha is from old forklore of the sever sisters or the seven witchs it is the name taken by one that means Enemy of God. I like tying in real forklore into my toons.

Anyway thank you all for taking time to read and responded to this thread! I am off to research why my numbers do not match between the pathbuilder and my own calculations.

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