How to fix a campaign I don't enjoy anymore?

[breithauptclan]

"One of my player's characters died, so the campaign is over" is a bad attitude to have.

As is "We should only have cardboard cutouts of enemies so that we don't risk any character death. So do whatever you want, I'll make sure that no one actually dies."

[XXSUPERHEROXX]

MathMuse wrote:

Ah, I have seen Lorkan post here before. I looked up his ealier posts. The first was five months ago in September 2022. He had asked in Got petrified, now what? about his character being petrified by a cockatrice. He started that post with, "Hi, my group is very new to Pathfinder," so Lorkan has less tnan a year of PF2 experience.

I wonder whether that petrification was one of the character deaths. The cockatrice's Calcification is a temporary effect, since 3rd-level characters don't have access to Stone to Flesh, but rolling a critical failure on the DC 20 Fortitude check for recovery results in permanent petrification that requires Stone to Flesh. And 11 days later he asked, Which class to play?- "So, my first character just died. Yey. I need a new one, but I don't know that much about the different classes."

Yeah, the campaign has been rough on Lorkan's characters.

Yep bad luck and in turn has made them disillusioned to the game to the point of just killing off their characters. Then again it appears they really need help making one. From what I read of the quest line it would not be one I would have beginners play. I seem to remember someone saying the gamemaster was good but can't remember who said that.

I feel it would have gone better to have that person run through a few lower-level adventures then after some time have them run this adventure.. A shame we do not have the full story I would have be happy to aid them in crafting a better character more suited to their beginning style.

sending amateurs after Madusa LOL doohh..

[breithauptclan]

Pixel Popper wrote:

cite the general rule(s) of Pathfinder that stipulate that:

replacing a character after character death requires starting over at first level, and

How about instead I cite this:

Group parity and party level wrote:

It’s recommended that you keep all the player characters at the same XP total. This makes it much easier to know what challenges are suitable for your players. Having characters at different levels can mean weaker characters die more easily and their players feel less effective, which in turn makes the game less fun for those players.

and

Treasure for new characters wrote:

When your new campaign starts at a higher level, a new player joins an existing group, or a current player’s character dies and they need a new one, your campaign will have one or more PCs who don’t start at 1st level.

[Dancing Wind]

XXSUPERHEROXX wrote:

You do not get to replace characters with poof characters it cheapens the game. You are cheating as simple as that..

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules of Pathfinder.

As breithauptclan has pointed out, the Rules As Written for Pathfinder are built on the assumption that everyone in the party will be at the same level during the game.

If you believe that that "cheapens the game", then you're obviously free to GM your own games however most amuses you. No one is going to march into your house and tell you to play differently.

But do not assume that you're playing Pathfinder by the rules that are designed to make it a fun, balanced game for strangers to play together all over the world.

Arguing for your homebrewed ruleset that ignores the actual rules, and then calling playing by the rules "cheating" isn't going to help people who are asking advice about playing the game with the rules printed in the rule books, and playing the game as it's designed to be played.

You're off in your own peculiar world, makeing up your own rules. That's not the kind of advice people are looking for on these boards.

[Mathmuse]

XXSUPERHEROXX wrote:

sending amateurs after Madusa LOL doohh..

Lorkan's party faced only a 3rd-level cockatrice not a 7th-level medusa. I am the challenging GM who set a 17th-level ghost medusa on my players, who are tactical masterminds. The sexy one (my wife) began playing Dungeons & Dragons back in 1978 when her older brothers brought the game back from college. And I went to this forum for advice before the encounter, Balancing a Seventeenth-Level Medusa. Petrification is tricky.

They gloriously defeated the medusa through clever tactics.

[XXSUPERHEROXX]

LOL and your party level was what? when they were fighting this 17th level ghost medusa? I think I started in 1980 My sister got me to play with her biker friends. I played a thief oh good times such good times LOL. That Cockatrice is adorable for a demon chicken! You would think they might have been able to do something about the petrification. I looked up and read about the 6 part adventure, was it not in a large city? there was not a single Nonplayer character around to do the stone to flesh? I mean it is one thing to get killed and go oh will here is my next character taking it all in stride. I mean stuff happens I guess I think differently because I played in the 80's it was a totally different game then this one.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

breithauptclan wrote:

"Your character died, so you don't get to play with us any more" is also a rather bad attitude for a GM to have.

Not the point of this discussion but I actually did that for a bit (I know your comment was directed at the idea of it being a weird pemanent punishment, not a temporary break) to a druid who died in my AoA campaign, there was no narrative way to justify him coming in where the party was without it feeling cheap and they blew all their gold trying to resurrect him while also failing to identify the elxir that would have brought him back. So he agreed to sit out for what turned into 6 sessions (although he did still turn up by choice to cheer on the other players).

At the end I planned big dwarven funeral for the character (he was a dwarf) and when the party got back to their home base I tied up some extra loose theads (including a cloak that he had custom ordered for another PC who had lost their previous one when they died in the last arc, their resurrection was successful though). And when two more sessions of RP had passed he could finally return with his new character, at a point where we both felt it suitable and not just a handwave and after his old character had been given a real farewell)

My point is in support of character death ideally having meaning, and against the weirdness and harsh ideal clashing above. Even when stricter approaches to death are applied.

[The Raven Black]

Let's stop the feeding.

I feel for the OP, even though I think he got some pretty good advice in several posts.

I hope you find some way to trust the game again and enjoy it anew.

[Chris_Fougere]

XXSUPERHEROXX wrote:

The biggest problem with the poof magic new character leveling is that the Gamemaster is not held accountable and has free license to murder-hobo the whole lot and just pop in Newly crafted characters. If you kill off the whole party your done your campaign failed miserably.

Then your GM is a jerk and why are you even playing with them?

[Chris_Fougere]

We've found in our games that one of the best options is to simply communicate between the player(s) and the GM. If a character dies or is otherwise removed from play then have a conversation with the player about what they'd like to do. Some people feel their story isn't done yet and want to continue in which case it's my job as the GM to facilitate that. Sometimes the player feels like they've either told the story or they want to try something new in which case it's a matter of that player and the GM (and possibly the other players) to work out how the new PC fits into things.

Everyone is there to have fun and one of the best ways to continue to so when issues like character death happens is to talk to each other like adults. Games run smoother when people communicate.

In a recent 5e game I had a character (Paladin/Rogue) who died and I was debating making a cleric since we needed one and I don't mind. But I also realized I had more to do with the character. So I talked to the DM about having her meet her Goddess (the Morrigan) and allowed her to return to life but as her cleric, not her paladin. Same character, mostly same stats (DM let me switch around Charisma and Wisdom) but new outlook on life and new RP potential and new stories.

So find what works for your group but absolutely the most important piece of advice is to talk to the GM and the group together.