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89 posts. Organized Play character for SaintLamech.


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Grand Lodge

Ok done. Checked and confirmed from the pazio Errata Documents, Core Rulebook Errata 1.4.

For anyone interested any weapon can damage a magical weapon, you just need to get over the extra harness and damage the extra hit points given by a weapons magical bonus.

Grand Lodge

Thanks for the answer. I found my old Core book and it does say a magical item needs to be equal or greater +bonus but on the srd where that line used to be it has the rules about hit points. Looks like my books a bit out of date.

Grand Lodge

Just a quick question on whether you still need to use a magical weapon with a +bonus equal to or greater than the weapon your sundering?

I couldnt find a ruling on the SRD though thought I had read there were rules in the print version. Has Paizo changed the ruling on this?

If this is the case would a monk need to have an Amulet of Mighty Fists before he can sunder a magical weapon to get the +bonus?

Grand Lodge

The full round action of making a Spring Attack doesnt provoke AoO from the target. The text doesnt differentiate between the movement or the attack when negating AoOs.

If you can substitute a trip/sunder/disarm when making an attack than you can do so here. Much like you can do when you charge. When you charge you get +2 to attack that transfers to CMB. Normally when you move and attack you dont get +2 to attack but the full round action of Charge changes the rules. Just like the full round action of Spring Attack changes the rules and neither movement nor attack provokes AoO.

Even the fluff suggests no AoO for a Combat Maneuver. "You can deftly move up to a foe, strike, and withdraw before he can react." If the bad guy makes an AoO against you Combat Maneuver he's reacting to you presence.

Don't look back to 3.5 when assessing this one. It has been rewritten though it kept the same concept.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Rust Monsters.

Rusting away hard earned equipment is enough to make a strong adventure weep.

Grand Lodge

I dont think that a government need reflect the views of the people at large. Laws that are established and enforced lay down acceptable behavior in that society but that doesnt make the citizenry lawful alignment wise.

Im from Australia where we have a lawful government looking after a populous made up of mostly chaotic stupid people. We do what we will along the guidelines of the laws and will occasionally wander over both sides of the law.

Elves I presume have King that enforces the prescribed standards of elven society. The manner in which he does this may fall towards the chaotic.

In a novel by Kathrine Kerr the elves are introduced to horses and are trying to ride them for the first time. The kings elite soldiers try to mount them and fall off, shaming the king with their failure. The king however attempts to mount a horse and sides off the other side into the mud so his soldiers save face. I dont see human king, perhaps more lawful, acting in such a manner.

Grand Lodge

I was planning on playing a melee caster, possibly a Magus, and was wondering if Dex 10 would lower my AC too much at lower levels?

I know there are better builds for a Magus and Im not trying to optimise him 100%. I like the idea of playing a character thats a little clumsy but the rules hurt AC too much to drop Dex below 10.

SO, is wearing light armour with no Dex boost going to be disastrous?

stats Im looking at are
Str 15+2 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 7 Cha 10

Grand Lodge

Playing Jarlaxle is going to be a cash sink.

Buy every odd wonderous item you can and max out Use Magic Device.

Go rogue for the Charisma based checks and and maybe a few levels of fighter, remember he went toe to toe with Ellery in the second Sellswords book and she was pobably a fighter/rogue/assassin.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I arrived at a problem tonight with my group concerning Wall of Force.

I presumed that Wall of Force would stop fireballs and enervations, basically any spell where a visual effect originated from your side of the wall, but allow you to cast charm person on someone behind the wall.

The group showed me the wording and I conceded (a little grumpily) that the Wall of Force broke Line of Effect because as it states this in the spell description.

My question is does Wall of Force disrupt Line of Effect only because it states this in the spell description or because it is a force effect? Would any clear material break Line of Effect for spells like charm person or haste?

(and can Witches hexs affect someone though a Wall of Force?)

Grand Lodge

When I first started DMing KM we had a paladin, a barbarian and a wizard in the group. These guys had 20-point buys and breezed through all of the early encounters. I only realized later that the game was made for 15 point buy >.<

Since then Ive maxed out hit points from dice for all of my monsters (though a barbarian will still carve through them like butter) to keep them up for longer than one round.

I also added lower level mooks to all fights with only one monster. With the party taking so long to explore hexes you'll find they come to most fights with hp and spell slots at max and one monster will die pretty quickly.

With adding an additional antagonist. p48 goes over a few bandit NPCs. I think Topper Red, a former street poet turned bandit, would give some good role playing possibilities if tries to curry favor with the Stag Lord by finding out the weaknesses of the party and reporting back.

Grand Lodge

I was reading through WotRK in preperation for running it soon and couldnt find any rules for attacking a city with no army in it.

The 3 armies sent by Pitax attack one of the PCs cities but the module says nothing about how long it takes to conquer or what the DM/OM would be of a city that the PCs dont have an army stationed at.

I figured that Pitax would send the Wyverns the long way around to attack Varnhold and draw the PCs armies there before hitting Fort Drelev with the Humnan and Troll armies. I was considering using a small fighter 1 army to represent town guards. Any thoughts?

Grand Lodge

One of the best things I did for my Kingmaker game was give the monsters max hit points per hit die. I have 3 players with very well built characters and they roll over most encounters. More hit points lets the monsters stay around long enough to do a bit more damage an survive those maximized, empowered fireballs.

I have also rewritten all of the main Big Bads to be more effective.

(There is a Magus, Witch and Cleric at level 14 currently starting the 5th module)

Grand Lodge

Ok found what I was looking for but I had to use the link from the original Sean K Reynolds quote that Bobson put at the top of the page.

I still cannot find where it links to the Help/FAQ? page

Grand Lodge

After 20 mins Im still looking for the answer given to a post.
The post says "39 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ." But where do I go?

Hitting Help/FAQ? takes me to Billing and What is Paizo? with no clear links to where questions have been answered. A link on a post that has been voted up and replied to that takes you straight to the reply would be very helpful.

By the way I still cant find the answer from this page if someone could point me in the right direction please? :)

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pbz2?Witch-cackle

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ive always followed the idea that Geeks are Nerds without the intelligence.

Geek can be interchanged with fanboy. Someone overly passionate about their favorite cultural phenomenon.

Nerds however have high grades and interests in computers, science etc.

Perhaps it is better to say that both are over enthusiastic in their fields but Nerds favor practical interests and Geeks, pop culture (or unpop culture as it may be).

Grand Lodge

Advanced Rust Monster.

Ive played with people who had no problems rolling up a new character when one died but corrode their epic greatsword into dinner and see the depths of despair this game can inflict onto people.

That being said the worst time Ive had while playing is sending men to their deaths. We were put in command of a company of soldiers and when I forgot about a trap the rogue had warned me about and sent them against the Big Bad they were all killed in seconds.

It was my fault they died by a bad decision and was the first time I realized at what emotion this game could evoke. So perhaps decisions with no good outcomes would be the way to go.

Grand Lodge

I love the randomness of the dice rolls. That is for me what makes the mechanics of the game work. If I wanted a game where moves were predetermined and it was based on strategy I would play chess.

The feeling of seeing the dice come up 20 or 1 can be the best or worst thing that you can experience. Heck, my group even made a natural 20 an immediate critical hit so it would be more exciting to see it come up.

If people work the 20/1 success/fail rule sensibly there is no reason that it shouldn't work and add excitement to the game. Climbing over a 10ft wall? No problems you make it over. There is no need to make a roll at all if you have the in-game time, it will only slow down your out-of-game time. But if the castle guards are seconds from catching you after you grabbed the Kings crown, a skill check can add a bit of tension and excitement to the game, even if the chance of failure is very small.

And if you argue that you should be able to jump to the moon 5% of the time your DM should slap you and seriously look at your out of game Wisdom score.

Grand Lodge

Soooo Vital Stike = single attack, can be combined with cleave?

RAI and as a DM I wouldnt allow it but RAW can it be taken that way?

Grand Lodge

I been thinking of letting my players receive chain feats for free if they take the first feat and have the prerequisites for the other feats.

Having to take several feats for Two Weapon Fighting and Vital Strike always annoye me as a player especially if Im not a fighter.

So I was wondering on other peoples thoughts on wether this would work and what other feat chains would be appropriate. Would allowing a fighter to take Weapon Focus and receive Weapon Spec. and the other feats for free be too powerful?

Grand Lodge

As a DM I have a character 'cheat sheet' with each PCs armor class, CMD, Perception, Knowledge, Diplomacy etc. checks on it. Any statistic that I will need straight away during combat or any roll that a PC should not instantly know the answer to is written on it.

This helps keep the game flowing quickly in combat and lets me despence knowledge when I think they have had enough time to spot something/ talking to people to change their minds.

Grand Lodge

Touch of Gracelessness is one I just came across that I dont like.

Take a hit to Dex than fall prone for a max -7 AC at 1st level.
Comparing it to Ray of Enfeeblement I dont see the close range and no other effect equal to a range of touch plus half speed.

Grand Lodge

A big dungeon needs one room that connects all three levels.

A 100ft waterfall casscading down a natural cavern is one I like. It can have a good effect both telling the PCs how many levels there are (I hate going down floor after floor not knowing when it will end)and can serve as a central hub. Perceptions checks in the waterfall cave to notice ledges and doors to other parts of the dungeon.

1. a centeral hub is good. A big enough dungeon can even have a market place/tavern where all the people living can come and meet and lead to stealthy play.

2. one theme is enough but split it up. If the bad guys are drow have living quarters for clerics, wizards and fighters seperate so that PCs know that they need to prepare for different fights in those areas. Or differing drow houses. One specialises in fire magic, another are all barbarians, but why does everyone from the drow house wearing the black hoods?

Stay away from water, fire, earth and air themed sections of a dungeons, I tried this and the PCs laughed at me. Be creative.

3. the lower dungeon that everones afraid to go near but know one knows whats down there is a classic. The balrog is a great example.

Grand Lodge

If you dont kill it with fire it'll keep coming back. Rookie mistake.

Grand Lodge

Name: Aeros Spalding
Race: Sylph
Sex: Male
Class: Sorcerer (djinni)
Deity: Desna
PFS Faction: The Grand Lodge
Alignment: Chaotic Good

A gentle soul that is easily distracted, Aeros would prefer to get along with everyone if he could. He is a dreamer and a drifter that walks wherever the wind blows him.

If there is a driving force behind Aeros its his insatiable curiosity. Whats behind the door? Across the river? Why did she run off when they were so happy together? Whats the baker doing in this part of town this late at night?

"Why go? Because the wind blew me in this direction and Desna guided my feet! And Ive never been there before. Sorry? Bring to the group? Aeros looks around the room for an answer Well...I guess I bring a little magic to the group, my father was a djinni after all, and... fun. Thats it. I bring magic and fun!"

Im in Australia so GMT+8

Grand Lodge

KINGMAKER SPOILERS

Spoiler:

Play Kingmaker and check out the tannery in Varnhold, page 22.

Out back is a fenced enclosure with three horse hides stretched upon it. A DC 15 Perception or Knowledge (nature) check recognizes them as being strangely incomplete above the withers. A DC 23 Knowledge (nature) confirms that they are actually centaur hides missing the humanoid portion.

So apparently its ok to skin intelligent creatures but not the parts that resemble people :P

Wearing skins is about whats socially acceptable. If someone is going against the norms of their culture to such a degree as to wear the skins of close race (a human wearing orc skin), it probably shows deeper psychological issues than just wanting to keep warm. This would probably push them towards chaotic and evil.

The closer the skins are to your race, the more evil it is. Otherwise go for it.

Also check out Lizardfolk for cannibalism=evil arguments. A True Neutral survivalist race that doesnt blink an eye at using their dead for sustenance.

Grand Lodge

Thanks for the quick answers guys.

I had a look further back and saw that there were a LOT of posts on this, most just saying to ditch the withdrawing all together.

I think I might step out side of the game to put in a solution and add cap per level that they can withdraw. That way if they have too much gold for their level I'll say that PC cant withdraw and if they have too little it will be an easy way for them to catch up.

Grand Lodge

The players in the Kingmaker Im running are pretty good at the kingdom making aspect of the game. They had a few close calls early on but without expanding much they have managed to build 2 cities and can now only fail a Economy/Stability/Loyalty roll on a natural 1.

I have no problems with this as they have worked hard, planned well and over come several problems.

My concern now is that they are turning towards withdrawing the kingdoms gold to spend on themselves. They will have enough Loyalty to pass the check so they only get +1 Unrest and will loose that through the Royal Assassin the following round.

Has anyone had any problems with PCs making all the right checks, playing inside of the rules, yet withdrawing gold for themselves and unbalancing the game?
How have you dealt with this?

Grand Lodge

My party made copious use of grease and color spray in the Kingmaker game Im running. They are two great choices that can take out multiple foes in one hit.

Of the list your looking at I'd say go with Enlarge Person. The melee will love you for it and at low levels the extra damage from the enlarged weapon really pays off. Magic Missile is one hit on one turn but Enlarge Person covers multiple hits over many turns, well worth it.

Grand Lodge

This is what I have ended up with.

Elemental Glyph of Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire
School evocation; Level cleric 3;

CASTING
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S

EFFECT
Range: touch
Target: Weapon or Single Ammunition touched
Duration: 1 hour/ level or until discharged (D)
Saving Throw: reflex save for half; Spell Resistance: yes;

Elemental Glyph inscribes a weapon or single ammunition with a Glyph that explodes on impact. Elemental Glyph deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) to the first target hit. This damage is acid, cold, electricity, or fire (caster's choice, made made when the spell is prepared). A caster may only have one Elemental Glyph active at any one time. Spell resistance applies against this effect.

Grand Lodge

Thanks for the advice.

I looked at both Searing Light and Glyph of Warding for damage and effects I will change it from Abjuration to Evocation.

Searing Light had the added effect of dealing more damage to undead and I thought that letting the caster choose what damage to use at casting, along with a 1 round cast time, would balance out. Its more for using in preperation before fights.

I may add to it that the glyph becomes dormant if the weapon leaves your possession. To stop everyone in the party having a glyphed weapon at the start of battle.

Also thinking about designating the elemental damage type at the time of preparing, like the Protection From.... spells.

Grand Lodge

One of my players is a Forgemaster and wanted some more spells that had a rune/glyph theme.

He wanted to use Glyph of Warding to inscribe crossbow bolts to do damage but I didnt see it as how the spell works. Instead I offered up this new spell as a replacement.

Elemental Glyph
School abjuration; Level cleric3;

CASTING
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range touch
Target Melee Weapon or Single Ammunition touched
Duration 1 minute/ level or until discharged (D)
Saving Throw None; Spell Resistance yes;

Elemental Glyph inscribes a weapon or ammunition with a Glyph that discharges damage on impact. Elemental Glyph deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) to the target hit. This damage is acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic (caster's choice, made at time of casting). Spell resistance applies against this effect.

Is this suitable for a level 3 cleric spell, and does anyone know of any more rune/glyph based cleric spells.

Grand Lodge

I agree that in a real life instance you couldnt use Lay on Hands as you couldnt get a hand free enough to touch yourself. Ive watched people wrestle and if someone gets you immobile, you aint doing squat.

HOWEVER

As a DM I would allow a paladin to use Lay on Hands while pinned. Dramatically I'd say that he clenches a fist, thereby touching himself, and bright light shines out of the gaps of his fingers.

If a PC has been pinned, its looking pretty grim for him. Hes probably being pinned by a large or larger creature or a humanoid speciallising in grapples. They might only have a slim chance of escaping the pin and wanting the PC to survive the encounter, I'd let him use Lay on Hands.

Also my awakened paladin octopus has been upset by this thread.

Grand Lodge

Yep, I think this is just one of those oversights where they cant put in a clause for every application of an action.

If its come down to Vital Strike only being able to work with a move and standard action, no charge, no spring attack, I dont see it working with a mounted charge, holes in the RAW or not.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Spirited Charge does say

"When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance)."

So the person with the feat has to be on a mount and has to use the charge action to gain the benifits of Spirited Charge.

Ssalarn wrote:
The only way the feat works and maintains consistency is with the understanding that the action economy has the mount charging while you maintain your normal action pool.

True but in this case it requires both the mount and rider, working in tandem, to both charge so the rider can gain the benifits.

The mount must use its action pool to charge and the rider must also use his action pool to charge.

Grand Lodge

Without sounding too cheesey, Ninja Assassin.

Levels of Ninja give you easy access to invisability so you can hide as we as getting some nice movement abilties to get into spots to take a clear shot.
Assassin gives you the Death Attack, which to my mind is going to be the closest you can get to a snipers one hit kill.

Mix up Vital Strike, Sneak Attack, Death Attack and Death Attack to get one big shot off before running turning invisible and taking another 3 rounds to get a Death Attack in.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What we really need is a clarification on Main Hand.

In TWF we all know that the off-hand gets 1/2 str mod and less with power attack. Now if we define the Main Hand in TWF as getting the straight str mod and -1/+2 from power attack we should get a balanced 2HW TWF.

A 1st level fighter with str 18 and power attack could get a Main Hand Greatsword (1d12+6), with +4 from str and +2 from PA, and also an Armor Spike (1d3+3, with +2 from 1/2 str and +1 from 1/2 PA).

I like the idea of slashing down with a greatsword than following it up with a knee spike to the groin and think the problem is not with definition of Off Hand but lack of definition of Main Hand.

Grand Lodge

Peeking around a corner should give you improved cover. This grants a +8 to AC, +4 to reflex saves, and a very nice +10 to stealth checks. This is played out with the PC putting his head just far enough around a corner to get an eye of the area.

My PCs often deal with doors by either looking through a key hole and getting a limited view of the room or listen checks.

Grand Lodge

Would Improved Feint/ Vital Strike be a viable option?
Instead of going for as many sneak attacks as possible, what about going for one big attack with as many die rolls as possible on damage.
Then if you have allies you can acrobatics into position Flank/ Vital Strike/ Sneak Attack.
If your alone Improved Feint/ Vital Strike/ Sneak Attack.

Grand Lodge

Ive had trouble recently with getting everyone in the group getting together at once. With only 3 PCs it becomes a bit hard when one cant make it. Some options are

1. Just miss the session and play on your next schedueled time.

2. Have their character step to the background for that game. Having his character there ingame but he doesnt interact with the world. Suspends a little beleif but is the easiest option.

3. Have someone else take over his character. Roleplaying wise he steps into the background but still contributes to combats. Again a good option but some people dont like others to play their characters.

4. Ingame have his character not be there. 'The mayor needs someone to scout out the south to make sure the goblins dont come back.' Not too bad an option but doesnt work if you left off half way through a dungeon.

If missing games is going to be a random ongoing thing you may need to think up ingame reasons why he keeps dissapearing. Perhaps he is being slowly ripped from the material plane into the Abyss by a demon and is questing to free himself from the demons grasp. Knowing his character is spending a week in a fiery inferno if he misses a game may also be an incentive to turn up :)

Grand Lodge

Yes he would.

Using a polymorph spell will change his shape, loosing the DD bite but gaining another bite, 2x claws and 2x wing attacks. Raging he will gain a gore and 2x claws.

Leaving him with a bite, gore, 2x claws and 2x wing attacks.

Under Transmutation (polymorph) p.212 of the crb:
You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.

So you can change into a dragon then rage and become a demonic dragon with a gore.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can a walrus be tripped? Even if it pushes itself up on its front flippers I dont think it would be prone if you pulled them out from underneath it, as a walrus on land basically moves around prone.

If a walrus cant be tripped I dont think a snake should be able to be. The DM would just be favouring the walrus and a DM should be impartial.

Grand Lodge

Hey Weirdo, thanks for the answers.

I had read in Treantmonks Druid guide that the Elder Air Elemental was the best form a druid could take so I presumed that the sizes were just that, sizes, not the type of elemental.

So I guess becoming a xorn or invisible stalker is out of the question?

Grand Lodge

Edit^
I meant the Elemental Body spell. Not sure how to edit the post.

Also with Elemental Body IV when you change into a huge elemental is that indicating size of the elemental or the specific elemental I can become. For example an Elder Elemental is huge, or can I just become a Huge Elemental?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Ok. I'm playing my first druid and was wondering what abilites I would get if I use Elemental Form IV to become a small elemental. Beast Shape clearly states animal size and the bonuses for that size but reading Elemental Form seemed to imply that the bonuses for EFIV would override those of EFI.

So casting EFIV to be come small would I get:
+4 Strength
+6 Dexterity
+4 natural armor bonus
fly 120 feet (perfect)
darkvision 60 feet
ability to create a whirlwind
immune to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks
DR 5/—.

or

+2 Dexterity
+2 natural armor bonus
fly 60 feet (perfect)
darkvision 60 feet
ability to create a whirlwind

Or do I still get the immunities and DR on smaller sizes but the abilities listed at EFI?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Better yet have the Lich fool EVERYONE. The powerful vampires and devils guarding the lich in his throne room have no idea about the limited power he wields. The difficulty of the fight would be against the minions with the lich an easy push over, perhaps shocking the whole room into silence as he drops after one hit.

Then the powerful minions either leave in disappointment or one steps forwards to be the new big bad.

Grand Lodge

Name: Arlin
Race: Elf
Classes/levels: Wizard 3
Adventure: Stolen Land
Location: The Old Sycamore
Catalyst: Critical hit from a Whiptail Centapide
The Gory Details: The barbarian was blocking one half of the entrance tunnel with a tower sheild with the paladin and wizard killing mites behind him. When the paladin contined forward by himself (thinking the mites a push over) encountered the whiptail centapide and was dropped 9but later rescued) by a crit.

Under instruction from the mites the centapide chased the wizard and barbarian from the tunnels where they made a stand outside of the tree. The Arlin, having taken 10 point of damage previous, was hit for 28 points of critical damage from the centapides bite.

The barbarian was able to kill the centapide and rescue the paladin and later Alins body was laid to rest under the Old Sycamore Tree.

Grand Lodge

lol this reminds me of a Dragonlance book where a bounty hunter was after Tas. The guy was described as having small cruel eyes and a yellowish tinge to his skin. It wasnt until later in the book when somebody put all the pieces together and realised he was half orc (or maybe half ogre? its been a while)

Anyway, a little cosmetic change like looking more human is no big deal. Maybe a little ways into the game his friends realise after all that he is part orc and ask more about his life. Or the guy in the tavern eyeing him is an orc hating ranger and leaps across the bar to throttle him.

Play a tall dwarf who most people take for human or a half elf from a dark skinned human parentage who some mistake for a drow. Theres no harm to it and can add some more roleplaying to the game.

Grand Lodge

Hi all

A player in my Kingmaker game wanted to play a character who came from a wild background (drinking, brawling) and slowly learnt to become a paladin. Hes played through 1st level as a warrior (not using Detect Evil or Smite) and Im looking to introduce a character or event that will 'show him the light' and guide him towards paladinhood.

Hes lowered his power (not using smite) for a level and I applaude his effort in developing his characters personallity but I dont want him to have to do this for another level.

My first idea was that when Akiros (Stag Lords number 2) turned to the PCs side he would mentor the character but though a couple of unlucky events Akiros is now dead.

Any ideas or suggestions for a character to become a paladin?

Grand Lodge

Yeah I have to agree with Phrennzy, Interzone and Dumb Paladin. Continue to run the game as you are and leave it up to them to come up with ideas to survive. Inform them that its not always up to the inquisiter to heal everyone and they should think about their own abillity to survive, even if it means taking touphness instead of their builds optimum feats or buying potions instead of that +2 sword.

There are ways around not having the perfect 4 person team it just takes a little planning. Even putting ranks into Use Magic Device should help everyone.

Grand Lodge

A snarky ring with constant tongues to act as a translater.

I once gave a party lacking casters an intellegant Wand of Polymorph. Before anyone jumps in I know it is against RAW but the Wand was in full knowlage that when all charges are gone it looses its magic so it would plead and beg people not to use it. It also had a constant Detect Magic and Identify so it would 'talk' to other magic items and tell the PCs what they can do.

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