Skinning Intelligent Humanoids=Evil Act_____Skinning Intelligent Dragons= Ok?

[number6]

Alignment is soooo sticky that I say toss out strict/definite rules.

Myself I have players designate realms their character originate from.
I then ask players their character ethics or codes of conduct based on class, using the realms as a reference point.
It opens doors for players to self regulate themselves.

E.G. A paladin who seeks to battle and destroy red dragons should not be penalized for using red dragon scales for armor.
Conversely a Monk of Animal Love will not likely be a meat eater with hide armor.

Alignment and its parameters are sooooo subjective that it really requires a solid game world concept and adjudication.

[3.5 Loyalist]

Got to have agreement or leeway, or you will only have arguments.

[Forlarren]

Doctors didn't think skinning people was evil as late as the 1800s. It's called Anthropodermic bibliopegy. Many books of law were also bound in the skin of criminals by the state. By any morality other than modern it probably wouldn't be a big deal as long as you didn't go out of your way to desecrate the body or anything, and you could make some legitimate claim to the body as property.

[Helaman]

johnlocke90 wrote:

On the topic of skinning, the Bible describes David giving Saul 200 human foreskins as payment for Saul's daughter. Skinning is a very old tradition.

Hard to find these days but read God Knows by Joeseph Heller (of Catch 22 fame), his passage on when David realises the process of obtaining the foreskins would go faster, without the need to have five guys hold the Philistine down and with less screaming if he killed the Philistines first is haliarous.

[Helaman]

Interesting to note that eating human flesh as medicine was in practice as late as the US civil war

[Lamontius]

All of these examples from the Bible and history are really helping me get a grip on the morality behind obtaining my +2 longsword.

[Pendagast]

^^^ Want's to help Lamontius get his +2 longsword, in hopes of inheriting his +1 Longsword he no longer needs..... ANY thing it takes man, ANYthing

[Spell Slingin' Steve]

Gathering materials for my new Rainbow Gnomeskin Cloak

[3.5 Loyalist]

Gotta catch them all... to make the best cloak.

[Aleph]

Pendagast wrote:

on humans eating elves... Ill argue it's still cannibalism.

If, IRL a dwarf or a midget killed you, and ate you would it be cannibalism?
What If I ate a pygmy?

Too similar to call a different creature. Africans might have a different set of stat blocks than asians, but eating eachother would still be cannibalistic.

Which means no elves eating halflings.

It's not cannibalism if you kill centaurs and just eat the horse bits.

[3.5 Loyalist]

Eating meat is not evil or undesirable, because by doing so you are also supporting local and country-wide industries and layers of jobs within your country.

I am currently in Australia, we have the space and a variety of climates to plant/grow/raise whatever we need; we also have the grazing land. We also grow too many grains and fruit to eat here, our industries in food production do extremely well, including the little cottage industries of people cutting costs by growing a lot themselves (I am almost self sufficient for tomatoes and chillis and I am self sufficient for coriander). You can send a lot of this overseas, although then there is the matter of transports costs, pollution, etc.

I far more support satisfying local demand, and people using the land to the best of their ability using agricultural science and promoting a variety of food industries--vegetable, fruit, dairy and yes including meat.

Go over to a non-meat diet? Sure, sure, if you say so, good luck with that. It is however not my thing and most people have other problems they care a lot more about.

[Winston Colt]

KINGMAKER SPOILERS

Spoiler:

Play Kingmaker and check out the tannery in Varnhold, page 22.

Out back is a fenced enclosure with three horse hides stretched upon it. A DC 15 Perception or Knowledge (nature) check recognizes them as being strangely incomplete above the withers. A DC 23 Knowledge (nature) confirms that they are actually centaur hides missing the humanoid portion.

So apparently its ok to skin intelligent creatures but not the parts that resemble people :P

Wearing skins is about whats socially acceptable. If someone is going against the norms of their culture to such a degree as to wear the skins of close race (a human wearing orc skin), it probably shows deeper psychological issues than just wanting to keep warm. This would probably push them towards chaotic and evil.

The closer the skins are to your race, the more evil it is. Otherwise go for it.

Also check out Lizardfolk for cannibalism=evil arguments. A True Neutral survivalist race that doesnt blink an eye at using their dead for sustenance.

[Khrysaor]

Skinning intelligent creatures is not evil if it has a purpose. The game has been designed so that there is a purpose to skinning some creatures. Skinning intelligent creatures that don't serve a purpose could be evil. Taking the skin of an intelligent being because you want to have an elf skin cloak or some such doesn't come with any game mechanic that supports doing this. This makes it something you wanted to do for no benefit.

Everything of this argument has to be taken with game design into account or it serves no purpose. You cannot argue human morality in a game where there are a wide variety of intelligent and moral races. Human morality =/= Elf morality =/= Dragon morality =/= Orc morality

[Pendagast]

3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Eating meat is not evil or undesirable, because by doing so you are also supporting local and country-wide industries and layers of jobs within your country.

I am currently in Australia, we have the space and a variety of climates to plant/grow/raise whatever we need; we also have the grazing land. We also grow too many grains and fruit to eat here, our industries in food production do extremely well, including the little cottage industries of people cutting costs by growing a lot themselves (I am almost self sufficient for tomatoes and chillis and I am self sufficient for coriander). You can send a lot of this overseas, although then there is the matter of transports costs, pollution, etc.

I far more support satisfying local demand, and people using the land to the best of their ability using agricultural science and promoting a variety of food industries--vegetable, fruit, dairy and yes including meat.

Go over to a non-meat diet? Sure, sure, if you say so, good luck with that. It is however not my thing and most people have other problems they care a lot more about.

Yes see the 'abundance' thing is true... there are a lot of people/places with plenty of food to share. The problem is getting the extra food there in edible fashion. Storing, packing, preserving, delivering.

It would be far easier to immigrate the people to the food, rather than the food to the people, however, then you have the 'not in my backyard argument;'.

I was in Somalia when Dictators (or wanna be's rather) refused food to the masses as a form of exacting control. I'm not sure I see any correlation between what the rest of the world is doing, and what this one country/area choose to do. It's not like EVERYONE in somalia were starving you know, just the poor/common folk.

[Abadar]

As a DM the only considerations I would make are cultural/racial/situational ones.

Tribe that skins their own dead?

Fey creatures who skin any aggressors?

Company of freezing humans in the mountains?

I don't think there's ever a simple answer, and contemporary taboo's should never play into PC's motives, they're not playing on earth, but on Golarion, or whatever fantasy realm it may be.