The Deadly Simplicity Cleric class feat increases your character's damage die with their deity's favored weapon by 1 size (or increases it to d6 if the weapon is an unarmed attack and it's lower than d6).
A monk has a d6 fist, due to powerful fist, so getting the Deadly Simplicity class feat whilst worshiping Irori, would increase the die to d8.
Does that go for Style attacks, as well, though? Or are they considered different weapons from the Fist weapon? Or are they not even considered weapons at all?
Would it make, for example, Dragon Style's attack from a d10 to a d12? Or would it remain d10?
I would like shurikens to work with at least some if not all monk abilities if you have monastic weaponry... it's not that significant... less damage but range. At a minimum, I should be able to flurry them.
It also doesn't make sense that a fighter can be a master of unarmed combat at level 3... but a Monk has to wait till level 13. A fighter can be a legend at unarmed combat eventually... a monk never can. I get the mechanical reason for this... but there is no thematic reason for it. At a minimum, a 20th level monk should have the option to become an unarmed legend through feat choice.
I think some stance bonuses should be passive outside the bounds of being in the stance... The Dragon's +1 vs paralysis and sleep feels like it should be an always thing... the Crane's jump bonus has already been mentioned.
I also think there is a missed opportunity for single-stance focused builds that give bonuses if you have one stance and never take any others.
Equipment: "Shuriken 1 cp 1d4 P 20 ft. 0 — 1 Dart Agile, monk, thrown"
Traits: "Monk: Monks can use these weapons with their abilities that normally require unarmed attacks."
While I appreciate 2E's archetyping, and have become much more welcoming of it, that still means that you are only allowed to be primarily Class A whilst dipping into Class B.
True multiclassing allows both for this, AND for mixing and matching levels between classes so that they're more evenly spread. And since the bread and butter of a character's effectiveness comes from their proficiency+level bonus, multiclassing allows for a balanced approach between the different sides (1-1 multiclassing, 2-1 multiclassing, soloclassing, multi-multiclassing), without making either side the flat-out superior to the other.
Monsters only receive the same bonus as the PCs at the same level. Remove that, and you are essentially removing the concept of level = character power, which is a very beloved concept of the game.
Not really, they still gain hit points, proficiency bonuses, new features, feats, ability score increases, high quality/magic items, high level spells, etc, etc.
It simply widens the threat range of monsters.
Why should they? why should PCs ever gain anything, if that's gonna make things easier for them? don't give them +lvl to proficiency, don't give them feats, don't give them magic items, don't give them level ups. In fact, don't give them anything.
Bracers of Armor can make up for *some* of the loss of DEX, but, yeah DEX is pretty important. It's really a question of WIS vs. STR. Do you want to be the strong monk or the ki-monk.
Doing the level 4 playtest my monk has 20 AC which is pretty decent. But even with only 14 DEX, she would still have 18 AC which isn't a significant cause for concern as that's right around where other martial classes are. Right now I'm testing 14 STR / 18 DEX, but you could probably get away with 18 STR / 14 DEX with no problem, take the +2 to damage and just get hit 10% more often. It has the added benefit of making Dragon Kick more viable as well.
Which is why I firmly believe that Monks should be able to substitute Dex with Wis to their AC/TAC. Let me be the strong ki-monk who's slower than molases, dammit!
You're mixing the Will Save, which resists mental influence, with the Wisdom attribute, which aids the will save in resisting mental influence(by dint of recognizing subconsciously that something's off). Common mistake, that.
Also, there's a difference between cognizantly knowing someone attempts to do something to your mind, and KNOWING with every fiber of your being that someone attempts to do something to your mind.
Intimidate could stand being folded into Strength instead(but with a feat option allowing for Charismatic Intimidation). Otherwise, the Charisma score is fine as is.
>Will Saves
Just because you are "strong minded" and stubborn, doesn't mean you are less prone to suggestions, charming spells, or insidious undermining. In fact, you may be even more liable to becoming charmed. Wisdom helps more, as it allows you to recognize when you're having one pulled over you, and that's something's terribly off, on an instinctual level.
>Perception
Wisdom is related to Perception, as a way of looking at things from an abstract point of view, and making snap, judgement decisions based on those(As opposed to stuff like Investigate, which is more about evidence gathering and analyzing). It's "knowledge" that comes not from strict formulas or memorization, but from life experience, common sense, insight, and just plain old gut feeling.
>Thief Skills
Geppetto has rubbish dexterity, but godly crafting ranks, so he more than makes up for it with sheer skill.
>Dexterity Fighters
I'd be fine with making Dexterity add bonus to damage for finesse weapons.
When I heard the original plan for proficiency I definitely thought this was the direction they were going with it.
I really like this idea along with baking in some basic abilities into increasing your proficiency beyond just numerical bonuses and hiding those upgrades in class features. Them give the classes some cooler more distinct features separate from the proficiency system.
Yeah, stuff so that proficiency itself lives up to its names, without screwing with the tight math itself.
Thinking on how could Multiclassing be implemented in 2E, using the current character progression as the main skeleton, I came up with the following idea:
Spoiler:
0 - Ancestry, Ancestry Feat 4, Background, Background Feat, General Feat,
1 - Class Level+1, Class Feat 4, Proficiency 10,
2 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat,
3 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, General Feat, Skill +1,
4 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
5 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Ancestry Feat, Skill +1, Ability +4
6 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
7 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, General Feat, Skill +1,
8 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
9 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Ancestry Feat, Skill +1,
10 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1, Ability +4
11 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, General Feat, Skill +1,
12 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
13 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Ancestry Feat, Skill +1,
14 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
15 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, General Feat, Skill +1,Ability +4
16 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
17 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Ancestry Feat, Skill +1,
18 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1,
19 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, General Feat, Skill +1,
20 - Class Level+1, Class Feat, Skill Feat, Proficiency +1, Ability +4
Things to note:
-Class Features = Class Feats
-Each level up, you choose 1 Class. You gain one level on said class(and its hp).
-You can have levels on multiple classes.
-You can then gain Class Feats, provided you meet their Class Level requirement.
-Some Class Features are Level 0 (Cantrips, for example), meaning that you can take them without any Levels on said Classes, even at character creation (Lvl 1).
-At Level 1, you have 10 Proficiencies that you can choose to spend on Preception, Saves, Weapons, Armor, or Spells.
-At 4th level, and every two levels thereafter (6th, 8th, 10th, etc), you can gain 1 more Proficiency, or increase one proficiency you have by 1 level. Maximum: Expert. At 10th Level, Maximum: Master. At 16th Level: Maximum: Legendary.
Quick Jump decreases Long Jump to one action, but it forgoes the Stride which is normally part of Long Jump.
Long Jump distance moved = Stride + horizontal leap
Quick Jump distance moded = horizontal leap
Flying Kick distance moved = Stride + horizontal leap
If your aim is to move as far as possible and then attack, Flying Kick is your best bet, if and only if you need Stride + horizontal leap to reach the target, and only have 2 actions left for the round.
Otherwise, might as well just move normally, and FoB to get the most bang for your buck.
As for Assurance, it doesn't replace the d20, but it DOES replace the skill roll+bonus, if you so chose to use it, which means that you forgo rolling a d20 (and chancing a critical failure), in order to instead "Assure" that you get the listed result. At Legendary proficiency, the listed result is 30, which means you auto-pass any DC30 check with that particular skill. That's +25 feet movement guaranteed with Long Jump/Flying Kick, on top of the monk's base Stride. +30 feet, if you're in Crane Stance.
and those champions can be called paladins if they so choose
Seeing as how to a bunch of us Paladin means "hero", not "champion of [whatever]" that's a sticking point.
I'm sure a CE orc chieftain can be considered a hero by his subordinates, or even other orcs in other clans.
Not the definition of Hero I was using. I truly meant Hero, not just someone someone else look up to for a certain reason. Someone who is truly heroic, that is what I and a whole bunch of other people think of when we see the word "Paladin".
>Someone who is trully heroic
If your larger than life feats inspire others to your cause, that makes you trully heroic to them. Good, bad, you're the guy with the divine gun.
I firmly believe that no base class should ever be restricted in less than 5 alignments. yes, including the paladin, whom I believe should belong to anyone of the X-treme alignments (LG, CG, TN, LE, CE).
You could have each alignment fall to a specific Order that the Paladin must choose at creation, and said order come with a set of feats unique to it, while sharing the larger pool of paladin feats, so you'd get Paladins of Freedom, Tyranny, Slaughter, Justice, and Balance. Yes, they're all Paladins, and they're all the exemplars of their respective alignments, the most extreme ones on the L-C/G-E axis.
With that said, bring alignment restrictions for more classes (Monks can be any non-Chaotic, Barbarians can be any non-Lawful, Druids can be any Neutral, etc).
only if you also wish to attack on said round. which, again, at a 35-to-60ft per Stride, should be absolutely no problem for any monk to accomplish by simply Striding twice. Maybe it's occasionally useful at lower levels, when striding twice nets you less than 80ft but at higher levels, it really shouldn't be an issue. Plus, as written, it's not FoB compatible, and the higher level the monk is, the less reason he ever has to not FoB someone at his highest attack bonus.
Given that what FK accomplishes, recquiring a Class Feat, which is a limited resource, is highly situational, it is highly fair to mention that Wind Jump, which accomplishes similar things to Flying Kick (helps with difficult terrain, allows you to get to out of reach enemies), but does so much better, is a more appealing choice overall.
move fob attack is 3 actions for a stride and 3 attacks at 0/-4/-8
flying kick fob is 3 actions for a stride a jump and 3 attacks at 0/-4/-8
it is a class feat that adds a free jump action whenever you would have to make both a move and an attack in the same round.l
for a level 4 class feat, it's really good, especially for smaller/slower movement races.
it's not broken powerful, or something you'll build around, just a solid, good option to take if you want more free mobility on a monk.
the chances of doing anything of worth with the third attack at -8 is abysmal
FoB benefits greatly from both hits landing (0, -4), not only in terms of overcoming resistance/dr, but from level 9 on, your damage die is increased one step as well, if both hits land.
That 3d8+4 + 3d8+4 will become 3d10+4 + 3d10+4. And if any of those crit, hooo boy
hitting on a (-4, -8) is very bad, unlikely to yield as good results as (0, -4), unless it's a lower leveled foe, in which case, why even bother? If you've a fair chance of hitting someone at -8, chances are you can take your time dispatching them, without needing to do so at the swiftest time possible.
only if you also wish to attack on said round. which, again, at a 35-to-60ft per Stride, should be absolutely no problem for any monk to accomplish by simply Striding twice. Maybe it's occasionally useful at lower levels, when striding twice nets you less than 80ft but at higher levels, it really shouldn't be an issue. Plus, as written, it's not FoB compatible, and the higher level the monk is, the less reason he ever has to not FoB someone at his highest attack bonus.
Given that what FK accomplishes, recquiring a Class Feat, which is a limited resource, is highly situational, it is highly fair to mention that Wind Jump, which accomplishes similar things to Flying Kick (helps with difficult terrain, allows you to get to out of reach enemies), but does so much better, is a more appealing choice overall.
in other words, just get Ki Strike so that you can then get Wind Jump instead, an outright superior option to mundane jumping, which once you reach master proficiency level in Athletics with the Assurance feat, becomes outright flight, 100% no checks needed.
They are fundamentally different. One gives "flying" as long as you land each turn. The other gives extra distance covered as long as you combine both a stride and a jump.
You get Wind Jump at 10th level. At 12th, you can attempt a DC30 Athletics check to remain afloat, rather than need to land. At 15th level, you can become Legendary in Athletics. Having gotten the Assurance feat for your Athletics, allows at that point to take 30, rather than roll and add your athletics skill bonus. Which means that the "flight" granted to you from Wind Step, becomes flight. No quotation marks required. You can't fail the check. You can't even critically fail, as you no longer roll. Plus, it's at your speed.
By comparison, Long Jump's bonus to your movement only enters if you need an extra +20 to +40(and risk getting prone, +30feet max safe distance, with Assurance and Crane Style at level 15) movement to reach an enemy that you can't with simply striding twice(as the class with the highest base speed). At a 35 to 60ft base speed, encountering a situation where you'd need that extra boost in movement should be a real accomplishment
And of course, there's absolutely no contest on the vertical axis. Wind Jump trounces Jump kick and any other mundane jump, even without the Assurance Feat
in other words, just get Ki Strike so that you can then get Wind Jump instead, an outright superior option to mundane jumping, which once you reach master proficiency level in Athletics with the Assurance feat, becomes outright flight, 100% no checks needed.
There's a huge difference between not being comfortable with an element of the game and not being comfortable with the very identity of people who could very well be playing it. Are you really arguing that someone who says "I have a phobia of black people, so please don't include them in this game" should be treated the same as someone who says "I would rather not think about sexual assault during something that's supposed to be fun and relaxing, so please don't include that in this game?"
Um, isn't the metric to be used here whether the game is fun for all players? If both of those statements are equal statements of something causing someone to not have fun, should they not be of equal weight?
I'm confused...
Okay, imagine this. You've just sat down to play Pathfinder and another player says to the GM, "I'm not comfortable with {insert your race here}, so would you please remove them from the game?" I presume you would be happier if there was something in the rulebook advising that perhaps the GM shouldn't kick you out.
I sincerely doubt that if someone would be ok to oblige having somebody else kicked out of the table, for whatever discriminatory reason, in the absence of any section in the rulebook advising, or even dictating, that they shouldn't do so, would feel particularly pertrubed about doing it even in light of such a section.
And I sincerely doubt that this section, well-meaning though it is, can accomplish anything tangible outside of the metaphorical giving a pat on the back. Outside of official games, it might as well be pointless padding. And given the examples given above about official adventures containing triggering elements as intergral parts of their plot, then even in the case of official games, it might prove an excercise in futility.
Sadly, as its non-heightenable, and no word was made about that, this renders Ki Strike entirely useless come level 4+ (if it weren't already nearly useless from level 1).
Multiclassing as Cleric gives you access to Bless and Heroism, both superior options to Ki Strike, for the cost of 2 class feats minimum, 5 if you wanna max out your spellcasting in Cleric. This leaves you with 6 class feats that you can invest on the superior Ki powers (Wholeness, Blast, Wind Jump, Empty Body, and Abundant Step), along with Ki Strike which is effectively a Feat Tax.
At level 20, you'd have: Wisdom 20 [16 base, +2,+1,+1,+0 from level up] + 2[Headband of Inspired Wisdom], for a total of 16 Ki Points [+6 from WIS, +2*5 from Class Feats], as well as: 2 1st level spell slots, 2 2nd level spell slots, 2 3rd level spell slots, 2 4th level spell slots, 2 5th level spell slots, 2 6th level spell slots, 1 7th level spell slots, and 1 8th level spell slot.
Heroism at 8th is a 10-minute +3 increase to all of your attacks, instead of a one-off +1 increase to a single attack. Bless is only for 1 minute, and only for +1 increase to attacks, but it's also an aura effect, affecting both you and your allies. These two ensure that your attack bonus will be as high as possible for long bursts, saving you your precious Ki points for more important stuff (like self healing, AoEs, the occasional flight spell) of which you'd have 8 castings minimum.
(Also, as Ki Strike grants a conditional bonus, it neither stacks with Bless nor Heroism, making it rendering it completely obsolete).
That is a system I have zero interest in playing. Unlike the PF2 playtest which I find extremely exciting.
Math works out the same (at = level), it's the same system, except for extending the threat range of monsters, just like removing the treadmill from 4th Ed, works out just fine.
So Math doesn't in fact work the same at all, except for a small margin, is what you're saying?
On another point, I see verisimiltude being thrown around a bit, and honestly, I find nothing even remotely verisimiltudous about a horde of level 1s being a plausible threat to a level 20 character. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that even a horde of level 10s shouldn't pose a threat to him, and only start making him nervous when they get within 5 levels of him.
Otherwise, there's no point in a game having 20 levels at all. Just make one with maybe 5 levels, if at all, and be done with it.
Mathmatically, having the multiple attack penalty apply to Flurry of Blows as if it were two attacks each with full penalties is the simplest. In that cast, Flurry followed by Strike would be +0,-4,-8 and Strike followed by Flurry would be +0,-4,-8, the same.
If Flurry counted as one attack, then Flurry followed by Strike would be +0,+0,-4 and Strike followed by Flurry would be +0,-4,-4. This would result in the behavior of always Flurrying first.
If Flurry counted as two attacks, but both Flurry strikes have the same multiattack penalty, then Flurry followed by Strike would be +0,+0,-8 and Strike followed by Flurry would be +0,-4,-4. This does not force always-flurry-first, but it gives two different results. And it is harder to explain.
This analysis does not say which is correct for the playtest, just which one would be easier for the final 2nd Edition rules.
Given that Flurry combines both hits into one, for DR overcoming purposes, you already have precious little reason to ever not Flurry as your first attack.
Essentially what CommanderCoyler is saying is, you've made race selection look like this:
Pick:
Fixed Boost, Free Boost, Fixed Flaw
Free Boost, Free Boost, Free Flaw
What would literally everyone choose?
The second one.
We already have that with humans picking both boosts and having no flaws.
Which is why they're balanced by having one less boost. Again, the flaw doesn't matter, you're not going to play an ancestry with a flaw to your class's main stat(s) unless something else makes up for it i.e. feats
There is absolutely no reason to pick an ancestry that has a flaw to your class's main stat, unless you really want to. The Dwarf's Charisma flaw means squat for many classes, and especially for Druids.
Ability boosts should be balanced against ability boosts
Ancestry feats should be balanced against ancestry feats
Humans receiving 2 Free Boosts versus 1 Free Boost, 2 Fixed Boosts, and 1 Fixed Flaw, is just as fine as them receiving 3 Free Boosts and 1 Free Flaw (And I'd go one more and say that you should be able to use up your Free Boost to fix your Flaw). If 3 boosts on physical stats is too much for some godforsaken reason, the caveat that 1 of those three boosts should come from STR, CON, DEX, and the other from INT, WIS, CHA, should be plenty enough.
Yes. When you select a background, you are informed in no uncertain terms that "You gain feat X". No ifs, ands, or buts. This is specific, in regards to Assurance's prerequisites, which are general by comparison(Rule: Specific beats General).
No, that'd just mean that Humans would be just as good for every class as any other ancestry, so you'd have at least one additional great ancestry for them.
Now, on the other side of the fence, if other ancestries get (Free, Fixed, Fixed, Fixed Flaw), with Humans getting (Free, Free) only, there's very little reason to choose Humans, as there's most definitely an ancestry that does class X better than them.
So you go back to balancing ancestries by giving them lower quality feats, whilst giving the humans the real goodies. that seems like a worse design workspace, to me, honestly.
(and if having a single ancestry get boosts on all physical or all mental abilities at once is such a serious unbalancing gamebreaker, just put a caveat that one Free Boost must go to (STR, CON, or DEX) and one Free Boost must go to (INT, WIS, or CHA))
2) Humans should get their (Free, Free) boost, as is, but with the option to instead get a (Free, Free, Free, Flaw), where the Flaw is subject to the player's choice.
Why would you not play a human under one of these options? As is is now, you're trading two static boosts (and a flaw, but you probably wouldn't choose a race with a flaw in the primary stat for the class you want) for the ability to choose a boost, as well as access to the best feats. This lets humans be versatile with the downside that their stats are slightly worse than everyone else's.
I do not for a single moment believe that Ability scores should be in any way or form comparable to Ancestry Feats.
Human Ancestry Feats should only be comparable to non-human Ancestry Feats, and if those later are found wanting, then that should be fixed(by bringing them up to speed with the human ones).
I'm perfectly fine with the ability boosts/flaws as is, with only two exceptions:
1) Goblins should get an INT mod instead of a CHA mod. No, Goblins neither do have any universally innate Charismatic force about them, nor should they get one. INT makes far more sense for them, in a Rogueish cunning/inventiveness/trapster kind of way.
2) Humans should get their (Free, Free) boost, as is, but with the option to instead get a (Free, Free, Free, Flaw), where the Flaw is subject to the player's choice.
If someone wants to have more than 1 backgrounds, it should be fairly easy to do, just say you have those, but only one of them counts for mechanic purposes.
Otherwise, you may wish to either combine those different backgrounds into a single one, or even create an entirely new custom background, following the pre-existing backgrounds as your template, with your DM's permission and input.
Lore-wise, I, as well, personally, don't see much of an issue with taking two or three different Lore skills, either, at once. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that all backgrounds should have 3 Lore Skills each by default.
I know a lot of players that have a problem with this aspect of PF1.
You either hyper specialize or become as usefull as a rock.
It's more often on social skill or knowledge.
"Well, we have the guy with Charisma so I guess the others can dump it to the ground ?"
"The Bard has like +16285465 in all knowledge, why bother putting even 1 point in it ?"
"Climbing ? We will fly."
"The sneaky ninja over there can go in the queen room, have sex with her while the king is reading a book in the same bed, and either never be caught because too skilled at sneaking or he will bluff his way out with no problem. I guess we can let him assasinate the whole Vampire towns all by himself while we are eating in the tavern."
I (obviously) exagerated things but the fact that someone in the groupe vastly overshadow the others could somewhat make people a bit salty.
The reciproque problem is that if you put anything that have even a remote chance to beat the specialize character, the others are as good as dead weight.
This system doesn’t fix the sneaky ninja problem. It just means the wizard with a decent Dex can do the same thing three levels later.
Plus... isn't being good at your role THE POINT. You have a role.
What this system is doing is making the same mistakes as Star Wars Saga edition and 4th Edition D&D — two systems that predate Pathfinder 1 — and increasing all the numbers just to increase the numbers. Everyone gets better at sneaking or training animals, but the DCs always increase as well so you have an “appropriate challenge” so you don’t actually get better,
The "DC always increasing as well to the point that you always have an appropriate challenge so it doesn't feel like you've gotten better actually" is one that is predicated 100% entirely on the DM. There's no single game system that the DM can't cook up the numbers so you're always challenged by an equal measure across the level board, and there's no system that can force a DM to always challenge the player by said equal measure.
The rules on p. 279 state "once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites."
I'm pretty sure that this means you can take one of the Archetype traited feats (in this chapter) as a class feat. So you could take a Fighter Archetype feat, not any Fighter feat.
Although I might be wrong but that is how I read it.
you are indeed correct. that's exactly what it says. If your Class is Y, you have Archetype X(which allows you access to Feats from Class X), and take Natural Ambition, then:
-You aren't attempting to get Archetype X Feat Level 4 as a Class Y Feat Level 1.
-You are attempting to get Archetype X Feat Level 4 INSTEAD OF a Class Y Feat Level 1.
For proof, look no further than the Fighter Archetype Feat, Basic Maneuver, which explicitly states: "Gain a level 1 or level 2 fighter feat." The wording couldn't be more clear. Any Fighter Class Feat that is neither level 1 nor 2 just plainly doesn't qualify.
4. LACK OF RANGED WEAPON PROFICIENCIES CREATES LARGE GAP IN CAPABILITIES. Being able to efficiently attack from range is an essential part of a martial character's toolkit. There's a large incentive to get Monastic Weaponry just for this reason, and it gives a "feel-bad" vibe to be spending a Class Feat in covering a glaring weakness instead of growing more powerful, even if they are the same thing.
Agree. Improvised ranged weapons would fit the theme.
I can’t find any compelling, or logical reason why to play a TTRPG that adds +1 to everything / level.
Can you find any compelling, or logical reason why to play a TTRPG that adds +1 to your level itself? A TTRPG that lets you go from level 1 to level 20(and/or any and all of the inbetween levels)?
If yes, than I'm perfectly sure that you can, indeed, find a compelling or logical reason to play a TTRPG that adds +1 to everything/level.
"bumping another save by +1 and automatically make any success of it a critical success."
success: you take half damage
critical success: you take no damage
Seems pretty legendary to me, tbh, tho I'd prefer something along the lines of "increase your degree of success by 1 step", which would include turning critical failure into mere failure, and failure into success.
Regardless, there's issues with the fluffing of proficiency vs its actual mechanical benefits in general, not just for the monk.
Except that the effect you mentioned has nothing to do with legendary proficiency but instead is granted by Second Path to Perfection for all master proficiency saves. Again, other than +1 to save, legendary proficiency does nothing right now. This is not just a fluff issue, this is a game mechanics issue if the choice for this class feature you get is "you get +1x" (legendary proficiency) or "you get +1x and in addition up to +9y" (second master proficiency).
Ah, my bad. I misread what you wrote.
Anyway, I stand by the second part of my post, that this isn't an issue unique to the monk. The fluff around proficiency is not properly supported by its mechanical benefits, whether it's for Saving Throws, Attack Rolls, AC/TAC, or DCs.
I don't see that Monks have too much of a problem with ac at 1st level, after all it's possible to have 20ac at level 1. Of course, it takes your entire build to do so, but:
get crane style as your class feat (+1ac)
play as human and use Natural ambition to get Monastic weapons, then carry a Bo staff for parry (+1ac)
get trained in Knowledge (arcane) and get the skill feat trick magic item so you can cast Mage armor. 2nd level scrolls cost 8gp (you start with 15, but have not much else you need to buy apart from some gear and a Bo staff) and will give +2ac.
So that's: level (+1), Dex (+4), proficiency (+1), Crane style(+1), parry (+1) and Mage Armor (+2).
There is no rule saying you have to do all this, so if you wanted to drop one of the feats, or reduce the investment in Dex in favour of STR or Con (or anything else), it's possible. Also if you want to play a different race (so you can't get 2 class feats), your ac will still be good.
getting skill feats is only possible at level 2, to my knowledge, outside from backgrounds, if i am not mistaken.
Also,parry and crane style don't stack, as they're both the same type of bonus (circumstancial).
"Bonuses and Penalties
Other bonuses and penalties come in several types. If you
have more than one bonus or penalty of the same type,
you use only the highest bonus or penalty." Page 9.
"bumping another save by +1 and automatically make any success of it a critical success."
success: you take half damage
critical success: you take no damage
Seems pretty legendary to me, tbh, tho I'd prefer something along the lines of "increase your degree of success by 1 step", which would include turning critical failure into mere failure, and failure into success.
Regardless, there's issues with the fluffing of proficiency vs its actual mechanical benefits in general, not just for the monk.
6) Where do you put skill points? I've got 4 to allocate, but the Skills section doesn't seem to have anywhere to put a credit value. The "Prof" box is filled in from the TEML set of data... right?
under the Skill's name, next to the D20 icon, you put your total skill modifier (bonuses-penalties)
under SIG, you put a check if the skill is a signature skill for your character
under TEML, you put a check/s, depending on your proficiency(Trained, Expert, Master, Legendary).
under PROF, you put your proficiency modifier(Proficiency + Level)
Matt_Seibert wrote:
7) If my "Background Feat" is a second level feat, do I still get that as a level 1 PC? Or do I need to wait until I'm level 2?
General Rule: You need to meet a given feat's level requirement in order to be able to choose it.
Specific Rule: Background 'X' says you have feat 'Y'. Not "you may choose", but "you have".
The proficiency bonuses would feel better if we just got rid of adding level to everything. Adding level to everything is just pointless. You might as well make the game a bit easier and add it to nothing.
Have a level 1 character go up against a level 10 character, before saying that it's pointless. A 20th level character should absolutely dwarf anyone 5 or more levels lower than them. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any reason for 20 levels of progression. You could simply have 5 levels in total, and that'd be it.
Proficiency bonuses probably can't work in this system if they're more than a +1 per step, but as it stands, a mere +1 is not enough to seperate the expert from the legend, as the former could make up for the difference with levels and an ability modifier.
Skill Feats are rather uninspiring even at legendary, completely optional(you can have a legendary skill but no legendary feats for that skill), and only apply for your skill proficiencies. A universal mastery tier system needs more in my opinion, to really set itself appart from flat bonuses and the like.
My proposal:
-Untrained: Your proficiency modifier is equal to either your Level -2 OR your Level/2(round down), whichever is lower.
-Trained: Your proficiency modifier is equal to your Level
-Expert: Your proficiency modifier is equal to your Level +1. Treat all rolls you have Expert proficiency with on your d20 that are less than 5, as if you'd rolled 5, before adding modifiers, and if you do, your roll gains the fortune trait. When someone targets you with an attack against your AC or your TAC, while you have Expert proficiency with them, reduce the circumstance penalty to your defences(such as from being flat-footed, or from being flanked) by 1, to a maximum of -0 circumstance penalty.
-Master: Your proficiency modifier is your equal to your Level +2. Instead of rolling a d20 for a stat you have Master proficiency with, you may instead treat it as having rolled 10(this is called "taking a 10"). hen someone targets you with an attack against your AC or your TAC, while you have Expert proficiency with them, reduce the circumstance penalty to your defences(such as from being flat-footed, or from being flanked) by 2, to a maximum of -0 circumstance penalty.
-Legendary: Your proficiency modifier is your Level +3. You can no longer critically fail on a roll for a stat you have Legendary proficiency with, and your critical success range with it is doubled, (for example, if you needed to roll 18-20 for a critical success with that stat, you instead need to roll 15-20 for a critical success). hen someone targets you with an attack against your AC or your TAC, while you have Expert proficiency with them, reduce the circumstance penalty to your defences(such as from being flat-footed, or from being flanked) by 3, to a maximum of -0 circumstance penalty.
Add me to the cadre of folks who would like to see Ki Strike either boosted in power/efficacy, or given for free early on to avoid the tax-like feeling (I would rather it be boosted so people can build a non-ki monk if they so desire)
In my personal opinion, it needs to be
"Spend 1 Spell Point, gain a +1 circumstance bonus to all your subsequent unarmed or monk attacks, and each deals +1d4 force damage, until the start of your next turn.
Heightened(3rd): If you hit with both Strikes in a Flurry of Blows, increase the force damage dice of each attack by 1 step.
Heightened(5th): The circumstance bonus increases to +2, and the attacks deal +2d4 force damage.
Heightened(7th): The duration of Ki Strike increases to 1 minute
Heightened(9th): The circumstance bonus increases to +3, and the attack deal +3d4 force damage"
3. Agreed on making Monks DEX or WIS(You may use DEX or WIS on your AC/TAC, and all attacks with Agile Weapons), disagreed on INT and CHA.
4. Agreed. Alternatively, require class feats to gain higher proficiency with those weapons (along with other benefits)
5. Nah, they're fine
6. Agreed
7. eeeh. not sure I agree or disagree with this one.
8. A Monk that has Wind Jump, Assurance[Athletics], and Legendary Athletics[level 15], can Fly. No roll to maintain flight needed. A +4 to jumping is fine for lower levels, but it's definitely outclassed later on.
9. Agreed on Tongue. Combine Wall Run and Wind Step into a single Class Feat.
10. It's honestly kinda hard to justify using weapons over your fists, unless it's shurikens for the range, bo staff for the AC reaction bonus, or Kama, Kukri, or nunchaku, for their tripping/disarming properties.
Having said all this, I'd add that Wild Winds Stance is an absolutely horrible feat choice. Needing to pay 1 Spell Point to make a single attack at range is simply not worth it.
Per RAW, yes, but only in theory. In practice, there's not a single Feat in any archetype that meets the prerequisites of Natural Ambition
Reasoning:
"Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites."
When you have purchased a dedication feat for a given archetype, you can only purchase feats from said archetype. In the case of multiclass archetypes, that means that you can't, in fact, purchase class feats from the archetype's original class.
What you CAN purchase, instead, is a specific archetype feat which allows you to get said archetype's original class' feat.
In the case of the Fighter, Fighter Resiliency is a 4th level Feat, so you can't chose that.
But the same also goes for 1st level Fighter Class feats. In order to get anyone of those, if you're not a fighter, you'd need to qualify for at least Basic Maneuver, which lets you select a 1st (or 2nd) level Fighter Class Feat. Basic Maneuver, however, is a 2nd level feat, so it can't be selected by Natural Ambition, as it exceeds Natural Ambition's Level 1 requirement.
The same goes for all other Archetype Feats as well. None of them are Level 1, so they all disqualify for Natural Ambition's criteria(but if ever a level 1 archetype feat were introduced, that'd be a different matter).
Can you please define what rule prevents you from taking Fighter Resiliency, the multiclass archetype feat on p. 280?
At no point did I imply that in the example the player attempted to take a 1st level feat from the Fighter class directly, on p. 86-95. They are using the rules from p. 279 "you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat" to select Multiclass Archetype feats from the Fighter archetype list instead.
You said "In the case of the Fighter, Fighter Resilience is a 4th level Feat, so you can't chose that." Why not?
If it's because the feat has a 4th level prerequisite, you're committing a...
No. You absolutely can't.
The Ancestral Paragon feat explicitly mentions a Level 1 Ancestry Feat. Hence, you can't take a Level 5 or above Feat. If you could, it'd say "You gain an ancestry Feat", without making any mention of levels.
Similarly, Natural Ambition explicitly mentions a Level 1 Class Feat. If the Feat is not Level 1, then, in no uncertain terms, it does not meet the prerequisites for Natural Ambition.
It's not "You must be at least Level 1 to take this Feat"
It's "You can only take Feats that are defined as <Level 1>"
For proof, look no further than the Fighter Archetype Feat, Basic Maneuver, which explicitly states: "Gain a level 1 or level 2 fighter feat." The wording couldn't be more clear. Any Fighter Class Feat that is neither level 1 nor 2 doesn't qualify.
Can the bonus class feat from Natural Ambition be used to purchase a multiclass feat in place of a class feat provided the player meets the prerequisites?
Playtest Rulebook, p. 37 wrote:
NATURAL AMBITION
You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, causing you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat for your class.
Playtest Rulebook, p. 279 wrote:
Applying an archetype requires you to spend your class feats on archetype feats instead of class feats. Start by finding the archetype that best fits your character concept, and select the archetype’s dedication feat using one of your class feat choices. Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites.
Example: Gish the Human Wizard decides to multiclass into Fighter. They take Fighter Dedication as their 2nd level class feat, Basic Maneuver as their 4th level class feat, and select Natural Ambition as their 5th level Ancestry Feat, gaining a 1st level class feat. Can Gish use this class feat to purchase the archetype feat Fighter Resiliency?
Per RAW, yes, but only in theory. In practice, there's not a single Feat in any archetype that meets the prerequisites of Natural Ambition
Reasoning:
"Once you have the dedication feat,
you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a
class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites."
When you have purchased a dedication feat for a given archetype, you can only purchase feats from said archetype. In the case of multiclass archetypes, that means that you can't, in fact, purchase class feats from the archetype's original class.
What you CAN purchase, instead, is a specific archetype feat which allows you to get said archetype's original class' feat.
In the case of the Fighter, Fighter Resilience is a 4th level Feat, so you can't chose that.
But the same also goes for 1st level Fighter Class feats. In order to get anyone of those, if you're not a fighter, you'd need to qualify for at least Basic Maneuver, which lets you select a 1st (or 2nd) level Fighter Class Feat. Basic Maneuver, however, is a 2nd level feat, so it can't be selected by Natural Ambition, as it exceeds Natural Ambition's Level 1 requirement.
The same goes for all other Archetype Feats as well. None of them are Level 1, so they all disqualify for Natural Ambition's criteria(but if ever a level 1 archetype feat were introduced, that'd be a different matter).
