Tom Marlow's page

Allowing custom spell is likely to be overpowered.

Mountain shaper’s Girdle itself is less attractive due to the spell given and the ki limitation, only monk can use it and I doubt they will buy it instead of use the money for something more flexible.

But if allow to customize the spell given, then the story is different, which mean I can choose from unlimited spell list. Eg, spend 1 ki point to cast a cure critical wound or a freedom of movement from cleric spell list, or a holy sword from paladin spell list.

So, from the aspect of balancing, a "specific" spell given in a magic item is not equivalent to "custom" spell. If want to custom ki spell, then either limit the spell list or/and give it a suitable cost.

Given the at Qinggong Monk can get Blood Crow Strike at 14th level as Ki Power for (2 ki points per casting) I done not have an issue with it. Would keep the 2x cost, given it is an offensive spell.

I would not allow free rein on spells that could be added though.

On top of Blood Crow Strike they want to (if approve) eventually add.

Fly 3rd Level Spell

Nondetection 3rd Level Spell

Emergency Force Sphere 4th Level Spell

Anti-Magic Field 6th level Spell

I have a player that wants to add “Ki Spells” to their quarterstaff.

Specifically Blood Crow Strike (though they expressed interest in more), where they spend a ki point to cast the spell.

Their logic/reasoning /argument to allow this are that the Mountain shaper’s Girdle is 25,000 gp (which is a +4 str belt & spend one ki point to cast the 4th lv spell stone shape.

Subtracting the cost of an equivalent +4 belt of giant’s strength (16,000gp).

That would be 9,000gp (4,500gp crafted) to add a ki powered 4th level spell.

What are your group thoughts on this, and what would you calculate the cost for spells Higher or lower to cast?

www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/m-p/mountainshapers-girdle

Thank you all for your input!

I am going to go with Diego Rossi's Ruling of Spell-Like Vs Exceptional Ability’s in regards to my original Question.
And in Regards to any Conjuerors/Abjurers/ect. I also like Diego’s School specialist explanation as well, in the context of the game I am running now.

Thank you also Phoebus Alexandros and Belafon, I did appreciate your impute as well.

Given the context of runeforged weapons—being made to “grant the wielder additional prowess over practitioners of an opposing school of magic”—I would say they only work against the beneficiaries from arcane spells or magic items of that specific school of magic.

Do they think that Divine or extraordinary abjuration spell/abilities would be immune to the Runeforge effects then?

Can you make an example?

I don't get if you are speaking of some creature that has an SU constant Freedom of movement effect, a guy with a Ring of Freedom of movement, a guy with a permanent Freedom of movement spell, or a creature with a constant Freedom of movement spell.

As a general rule, the sadistic weapon will work if the creature is the target of an Abjuration spell or spell-like ability, and it is in effect when the one wielding the weapon attacks.

The Hollow Serpent,Cayhound,Linnorm, Crag Linnorm, ect. have the constant defensive effect of "Freedom of Movment". Wanted to know the interaction if one of these kind of creatures (going to pop up in my game) was hit with a sadistic runeforged weapon.

A Sadistic/Compassionate Runeforged weapon acts as a bane weapon to abjurers and any creatures with an active abjuration spell effect. If a creature has a constant abjuration effect, like freedom of movement, would this count as an “abjuration spell effect” to trigger the bane weapon properties?

So the uncle could still be a tyrant with all the perks and luxuries he wants. He tells the people in charge of these factions (guilds, or whatever) to implement policies that will improve the country and the life of the majority of the people. There's a small cadre of people with their own power bases who fear (and maybe hate) him. But the common people see how much better their lives are under his rule while not directly...

That would be a fun angle, My players/I love discworld. RIP Terry Pratchett

What most don't know is that the corruption was in large part the doing of the uncle, who was the slain king's chief minister. Like Richelieu in "The Three Musketeers," he excelled at covering his own tracks and laying the blame on others. When the uncle was crowned king, the lightning-quick pogroms he led (as part of "reforms for justice") were against the same nobles and ministers who had been his (often unknowing) cronies. This allowed him to clean house, but to also get rid of any remaining evidence.

I like it, the grand chess master angle! I need to look more into Richelieu in "The Three Musketeers" I have never read the book.

Old: patronage system where favors are exchanged for favors between extended families. Think the modern mafia, but given status as legitimate rulers. Those outside of the old families are prevented from gaining political influence even when they gain wealth, with their only way advancing socially is by marrying into a family (which at once makes their wealth the family's wealth, so the individual who was outside the family really hasn't advanced, but traded one for the other). The economy is directed by these families to maximize their individual wealth and stability, which has a net positive for the kingdom, but nowhere close to what a free market society can accomplish.

New: patronage system has given way to the rule of the PC's uncle, which has stripped them of all power outside of social influence, so they can be patrons of their cities or patrons of world-famous artists, but the families as a whole no longer pull the strings. Individuals can advance in both social standing and economic position based in their merits in either, or both, with the result of a more efficient bureaucracy within cities and greater trade between. Outside influence on the economy has increased with the families' control loosened, so the state has greater tax revenue from trade tariffs, which reduces the tax burden on individuals, making the uncle very popular up and down the social ladder (with the exceptions of the old families who miss the old system).

That is Fantastic and a great way to look at each system!

Thank you all!

Thanks for all your help, you guys have given me a lot to think about.

I need some help describing a kingdom (that uses kingdom building rules) that jumped from rulers that provided Loyalty 38, Economy 30, and Stability 35 to Loyalty 66, Economy 80, and Stability 82.

The scenario is a young prince (PC) fled his kingdom when his uncle orchestrated his father’s death and took the kingdom. The kingdom believes the prince is also dead, and the protector deity of the realm has made their divine displeasure know by withering the grand “Protector tree”. Over time the PC learns of his uncle’s purging his father’s loyalists from the court/positions of power.

The PC and his adventuring party now returns 15-20 years later to find that his uncle is a hyper competent ruler, his father’s kingdom is flourishing under the uncles rule. Experiencing prosperity, a growing middle class, and equal rights for human and non-human residents. Like Bhelen Aeducan from dragon age, a total Jerk, but Fantastic King.

This will lead to difficult questions/introspection/and role-playing opportunities for my players.

I need help describing the differences between old vs. new, and any other suggestions you might have to help flesh this idea out.

Thanks in Advance

I am crafting a campaign (We Just Started) where the last big boss battle will be the party of 5 vs a Tarrasque.

I want this battle to be epic, but I don’t want the party to instantly die or them to kill it super fast.

So What Minimum level to fight a Tarrasque and win?

I am fine with giving the mythic ranks as well.

If a Human that has the Draconic Heritage Alternate Racial Traits

" At times, a human’s family history can have a dragon’s power bound to the bloodline. Humans with this trait gain darkvision with a range of 10 feet and low-light vision. They can also ignore the Charisma prerequisite for Eldritch Heritage and any feat that has Eldritch Heritage as a prerequisite, but can select only the draconic bloodline with these feats. This replaces the bonus skill rank humans receive at each level. "

Does that mean if they have a high enough Charisma (15), they can just take the Improved Eldritch Heritage feat without needing to take Eldritch Heritage first?

Tom Marlow wrote:

The issue is that I am the GM. I have a player that wants to add mythic bane to their +4 Redeemed Evil outsider bane weapon. As they will be facing off against a demon lord later, I am looking for clarification.

Since you're asking, is this demon lord expected to be encountered outside his realm? If he's outside the realm, then you can just decide if you want the demon lord to be mythic or not. If the demon lord is in his realm then he is mythic.

It's not like once you're mythic, you're always mythic. Mythic can be gained or lost.

Makes Sense with the homefield advantage.

The game I am running is a variant/HIGHLY reflavored "Wrath of righteous". So they will be fighting one Demon lord in their realm and another not in their realm.

The Mythic rules are an optional and not every campaign uses them. This is going to up to the GM to decide. If the GM is not using the mythic rules at all the demon lords will not be mythic and not have any mythic powers. If the GM is running a mythic campaign a demon lord is probably going to be a mythic creature and will probably have the mythic subtype. Even if the GM is not running a mythic game, he might decide that certain powerful creatures are mythic and give them appropriate powers. So, what it comes down to is to ask your GM.

The issue is that I am the GM. I have a player that wants to add mythic bane to their +4 Redeemed Evil outsider bane weapon. As they will be facing off against a demon lord later, I am looking for clarification.

Confusion regarding the Mythic subtype in regards to Mythic Bane Weaponry here.

Do Demon Lords possesses the Mythic subtype, do they only count as mythic creature in their Abyssal Realm, Or do they not have never have the mythic subtype?

Thank you all for your input.

I will be adding an Campaign flavored Item that will allow the monk to add 1 level appropriate Qinggong after 1 hour of daily study. 2 spells at level 10 and 3 spells at level 15. Cast at the ki cost +1.

Fair point, this is a item that is going to more for its Flavor/RP fun, than its hard gameplay advantages.

Tom Marlow wrote:

If I had a single weapon, let's say a +1 Flaming Short sword, give it the Greater Transformative Enchantment, then turn that short sword to a quarterstaff. Could I then enchant the new “other” end of the quarterstaff with +1 frost, resulting in a +1 flaming/+1 Frost Transformative weapon?

The purpose of the weapon is to have two sets of enchantments that can be switched between.

The most basic issue here is that this is not really a good idea: A +1 Flaming Frost weapon is strictly superior and only slightly more expensive (18,000g) than your double weapon enchant (8,000g x 2 = 16,000g), and even then you would probably be better off with a +2 Flaming Weapon - or - a +2 Frost Weapon, as it really doesn't matter how much damage your weapon does when you miss...

If you really want to go the double weapon route, it should work...

I am more wondering by RAW/RAI can you take a single enchanted weapon, give it Greater Transformative, change it into a double weapon, and give the other "End" a new set of enchantments. So you can have a single "weapon" that has two sets of enchantments on it. Cost not being a factor.

The Frost/Flaming was just a example.

Personally I think this is too powerful and is not appropriate for a monk. The monk is about self-perfection, no accumulating power. Their powers are more similar to a spontaneous caster than a prepared caster. The idea that they can change out what they have learned seems wrong for a monk. Relying on a written spell book also seems to be a poor fit.

One of Irori's Spheres of Influence is knowledge. So an Irori Librarian that is delving deeper into the mysteries of Qinggong magic's I do not feel is a great stretch.

So the Monk Automatically gains the ki abilites each level, he simply has a larger list to choose from (they replace ones he would normally get)

That being said, your player could use a "spellbook" as flavor, just simply state he has his ki powers in his spellbook and casts them from it, no game mechanics need to be altered or modified. in fact if he were to "lose" his spellbook during the game, he might "discover" that he never needed it to begin with.

My player wants to pick up more of the classic ki powers as he levels up his monk, while spending his characters money to have access to a "Monk Spell list". Only picking from the Spells turned monk powers from the Qinggong list. Still using his own ki to cast them.

If I had a single weapon, let's say a +1 Flaming Short sword, give it the Greater Transformative Enchantment, then turn that short sword to a quarterstaff. Could I then enchant the new “other” end of the quarterstaff with +1 frost, resulting in a +1 flaming/+1 Frost Transformative weapon?

The purpose of the weapon is to have two sets of enchantments that can be switched between.

So I have a player (A unchained Monk Librarian) that wants to make a “Spellbook” of Qinggong Monk Spells that he can cast from the book by paying the relevant Ki costs/being the relevant level for utility and RP purposes.

Would this be overpowered if I allowed it?

If not how should I go about managing the “Transcription Cost” for each spell/the cost of the book itself?

Would a +5 Virulent weapon made of Blightburn have the radiation poison boosted by the weapons enchantment bonus?

So low exposure would be an 18 dc instead of 13.

Pathfinder Society Field Guide & Pathfinder Society Primer.

Thanks! I will look into those.

I know of Inner Sea Magic, Inner Sea Combat, Inner Sea Intrigue, Faction Guide, Occult Mysteries, and Qadira, Jewel of the East. Am I missing any?

If a Spellcaster (or any other class) Variant Multiclasses as a bard, can they gain gain Bardic Masterpieces from taking feats or sacrifices spells?

Kasoh wrote:

Rysky wrote:

"More or less" still needs to be within the vicinity of what's being stated.

For Nocticula it's very heavily implied, but we'll see for certain most likely soon when Gods and Magic is released.

I assumed that Desna meant for the chain of events to end in Arueshalae's redemption the entire time, and attributed it as such. Presuming too much on Desna's part perhaps, but that's the only way the chain of events makes sense to me.

Possibly, but Desna is also the Goddess of "Ooo what's this button do?"

I shall now forever think of Desna as Dee Dee from Dexter's Laboratory

I was under the impression that Tar-Baphon's phylactery is secreted away somewhere by Urgathoa herself, so it's probably not on this plane.

So he gets nuked, reforms wherever his phylactery is, and tries to return to the seat of his power and discovers that despite all the people who died there, the region is now utterlly inhospitable to undead.

So not only does TB have to establish a new seat of power elsewhere on the planet, but he's probably got a bunch of stuff there that he'd like to get back somehow, but no undead minions can survive the lingering positive energy.

Also, the former gravelands are now a rainforest. The postive energy is going to kill everyone and everything, but when it peters out it's going to make plants grow out of control. We're talking like 300' tall trees and stuff like that.

Neat, I really like this angle. Thanks

This is unacceptable mass murder of innocent undead and attempted assassination of a legitimate post-living political leader.

Kill the characters, raise them as undead.

If that doesn't work (or even if does); kill the players, raise them as undead.

Yes, Quite Right. They should get a sternly written letter of exploding runes at the very least

yukongil wrote:

as for the mythic lich and his artifact phylactery, does it give a specific scenario for destroying it? Cause a positive energy nuke seems like it would be fitting way to destroy such an artifact.

The idea behind artifacts is that there is a singular specific way to destroy them (proverbially, throwing it into Mount Doom); and that anything else just doesn't work.

Aside from that, TB's phylactery is explicitly immune to all non-mythic damage; and Synchrony isn't mythic.

And aside from that, why would the phylactery would be on the Isle of Terror in the first place? Tar-Baphon has an int score well above the human scale, so give him a little credit for smart planning.

My head canon for the Phylactery's destruction was Tar-Baphons own tears of regret, which (in theory) would not be an issue bringing up in the coming games.

This reminds me of a letter I saw in Dragon Magazine (or possibly Dungeon) ages ago.

A player wrote in, asking much EXP his party got because they "destroyed the planet" (I cannot recall if this was Faerun, Greyhawk, or another setting). Basically it led to people writing in saying that their own (insert absurdly powerful character here) would have stopped it. Level 40, 50, 150, whatever. Of course, the folks at TSR were dumbfounded that people thought the system let you go that high.

But yeah, the "nuke a game setting" always reminds me of that story.

Good luck, btw.

It is a good thing i do not run an EXP table, lol I need to look up that dragon mag

If they weren't Mythic before, they should be after doing that.

Hmmm True one horrific tier, maybe

You could also have the device trigger whatever is left of the trap meant for Aroden in Xin-Grafar

What trap?

Hmmm, not sure why I thought your group was mythic.

Did you have another thread asking questions about mythic? Maybe that's where my thoughts got crossed.

Edit: I double checked, and you were asking about mythic in regards to spamming miracle. I must have just seen your username and got my thoughts mixed. Sorry about that.

Different table. That one is a Planescape/kingdom heart style campaign. More middle of the road when it comes to seriousness.

My serious lore table was the one that, due to past characters played with heavy anti-Cheliax backstories, aided the Glorious Reclamation and toppled Cheliax.

I'd like to say, I think your description of "punish the stupid" is unfair. The way I view it, what I've discussed/suggested is the forces of the universe that survived this event now becoming focused on the PCs for their actions.

IMO, even many normally evil forces wont like what the PCs have done since it likely hurt their respective interests in the places that were hit.

While the characters may by mythic, they are not quite gods. But have made direct enemies of gods. I think the universe punching back is a proportional response. One that will end in the players either committing mass deicide and ascending to true deities, or being destroyed.

The players are not mythic. Just lv 18 pc's. The Ruins of Azlant is not a mythic adventure path.

Obcisidaemons. So many ****ing Obcisidaemons.

Oh, Did not know about those. Yes! Szuriel and Zyphus would be pleased.

This is the ultimate game derail. You gave your murder hobo a nuke and they used it. I'm not certain why anyone is surprised by this.

As written, yeah, they'll have catastrophic consequences and fail to even succeed at their objective.

On the other hand, is that fun? I'd find that to be fun. But not everyone does. Beer and pretzel types probably not.

Any of the suggestions that don't involve "punish the stupid" or "deus ex away the stupid" are probably better for your group as described, but you know the table better than any of us.

If it was me? I'd let it happen, and watch Golarion fall into chaos... ;)

Thank you, this group is very much sh*t's and giggles to my more story focused tables. But that is fun in its own way.

Look, I was just fishing for fun story hooks from the minds of fellow players.

So instead of (as written in the bad cannon endings) the Aboleth's Destroying Abosolm and the surrounding nations, or An Azlant General Nukeing the ocean causing Massive tsunamis on a global scale.

With no written divine intervention in either of those cases to stop it, or Tarrasque popping up.

The players used it on the whispering tyrant. They still want to play, I still want to dm them, so we are moving forward.

Probably going to have agents of Zon-Kuthon, Yaezhing, or other evil powers send agents to "help" the players. As other more good aligned agents hunt them down.

I did like Kurald Galain idea of using Tahonikeps, so i will be using them to help the players (if they choose) to go to the time plane and fix their actions.

So in all I thank you for your input

It sounds like one of your groups tried to do something original and interesting by combining various elements your setting draws from different sources, creating a novel and dramatic development. We can't be having with that.

It's time to crush those spirits. Remind these players of their station and insignificance in this fantasy world, and the foolishness of trying to change it substantially without following a proscribed path laid by higher minds. Really put some research into it. Pathfinder has a great range of powerful characters, monsters and outright deities, officially printed with abilities and resources that can easily invalidate their actions, which is obviously why they're there. You want to impress upon your group the richness of this setting, the grandness of its conflicts and the might of its major players, that the whole...

I am not mad at the players. Let me make that clear.

They had their fun,and now they are going to have an adventure to deal with the consequences. Will it be their characters? new? or old ones? we will see.

Claxon wrote:

They're far worse than Tar-Baphon at this point and didn't even succeed in doing what they want since it wouldn't have destroyed his phylactery, and even if it did he's a mythic lich so it probably still didn't work because mythic (I don't actually know his stat block to know exactly what protections he has).

It turns out Tar-Baphon has multiple layers of defense agains this.

True,for narrative purposes I was going to have it happen right after his reformation due to the event of "tyrants grasp" so he would be weakened/able to be obliterated again. Salt in the wound.

Mostly to give the pcs 10 days to figure out what to do b4 Tar-Baphon identifys them/goes after them. As his realm would not be very undead friendly atm.

Frankly I think you only need explain to the players what situation they're in and ask them what direction they plan to take, the world...

Oh They totally know what they did/where doing from a meta sense. They are a bit of a wacky group. On task enough to follow the module, but everything else is no holds bar. Very murder hobo, but they have fun. Keeps me on my toes as a DM.

Too bad they didn't pass a basic engineering check. They could have set the thing off a couple hundred miles above the center and not had as much collateral damage.

The will be kicking themselves when I bring that up lol

zza ni wrote:

The funny thing is, as a lich (and a mythical one non the less), all they did was maybe make him upset. that nuke won't finish him.

This right here is an important point.

The party in fact didn't kill Tar-Baphon, but instead killed almost every "living" thing in the area (depending on exactly which plane the thing was attuned to). They're far worse than Tar-Baphon at this point and didn't even succeed in doing what they want since it wouldn't have destroyed his phylactery, and even if it did he's a mythic lich so it probably still didn't work because mythic (I don't actually know his stat block to know exactly what protections he has).

So now, not only did the party fail to kill Tar-Baphon, they killed many nations worth of people, and probably have a lot of the Gods, both good and evil, looking to kill them/undo their actions.

The fact they killed a lot of people is not in question, the fact the Tar-Baphonis is not dead is not in question, or the fact that a lot of people are pissed off about this turn of events. I really get that.

As a dm I facilitated the story, which happened to be to story of the ruins of Azlant and Mass genocide.

Will they try and fix it? Go back in time to stop themselves? Turn super evil and be the villains of an AU universe? The next session has not happened yet.

I am now looking for story hooks/Ideas to continue to story as the party wants to do so as well.

Tom Marlow wrote:

None of the PC's workshop good gods, so that is not an issue.

What about lawful gods, or gods otherwise opposed to mass destruction?

Quote:

Who is Tahonikepsu, and what is their time travel access?

She is a Time Dragon affiliated with the country of Osirion and with the Pathfinder Society. That means that she either has the ability to time travel or will eventually develop it; and given how time travel works, it doesn't actually matter which of the two it is.

1) The only divine person worships Nethys

2) I will keep Tahonikepsu in mind.

Thanks for info!

Possible plot points,

(5) Cheliax moves to take over what's left of Molthune.
(8) Any PC receiving divine spells from any good and/or lawful deity immediately loses their spellcasting ability.

None of the PC's workshop good gods, so that is not an issue.

Who is Tahonikepsu, and what is their time travel access?

(and yeah, Shemis should have seen this one coming; that's her entire job)

Did not know she was a thing, Neat

NOBODY saw this coming?!?!

This table is very much past beer & pretzels to sh*t and Giggles play style. The temptation apparently was too great.

500 mile radius is huge. They pretty much killed every living thing in Ustalav, Lastwall, Nirmathas, Molthune, Isger, Druma, Kyonin, Five Kings Mountains, Razmiran, most of Ustalav, a decent chunk of the River Kingdoms, and bits of Galt, Andor, and Belkzen.

I think trial for killing more people than Tar-Baphon ever did is in order.

Yes, probably from Absalom. Also probablly earning the attention of Yaezhing