TheWarriorPoet519's page

Not to mention having deities unleash their full power in the vicinity of Rovagug's less than perfect cage might not be the best idea.

This is my new default justification for why any deity doesn't intercede directly in a big fist-smashing way on the material plane.

You do NOT want Rovagug's crystal prison cracked.

There's some mishmashes about Tar-Baphon's original imprisonment. Early in 1st edition it was indicated that his body was destroyed by the Shield of Aroden embedding itself in his hand, that it was still there when he reformed, and that the crusaders sealed him away because they knew he'd reform inside of Gallowspire's dungeon, which implies his Soul-Cage was known to be down there.

Later supplements have indicated that his Soul-Cage was hidden away by Urgathoa and could be anywhere in the cosmos, which--if that were the case--would kinda throw a wrench in the idea that he reformed in the dungeon.

I don't expect an answer as to what his soul-cage is, of course. Or where it is. I've chalked most of these differentials up to the kinda unreliable-narrator nature of mythic history, but the inconsistencies make my brain itch a lil bit.

Y'know it would be interesting to have a campaign in Cheliax proper explore (at least as a side-plot) the tension in the arts between the different factions who are using the arts to push the Thrune doctrine and those who are attempting to use those same arts to be subtly subversive.

Great fuel for any bardic character.

Also from this description of Vellumis (I'm drawing on the wiki admittedly but I don't think there's been more written on the city in 2e so far):

"Vellumis is a scenic port, with many buildings marble-clad, domed, and colonnaded in the once-popular Chelish Old White style (characterized by whitewashed walls, ornately decorated eaves, and massive arched windows)."

So this implies pretty strongly that there have been multiple different Chelish architectural styles through the ages, and that the way the city was built is presumably no longer in-vogue in Cheliax. Maybe this is because of the Thrune influence or maybe something else, but either way, I imagine there have been periods over the country's history where Azlanti style stuff was more or less common.

Back in 1e Chelaxians were their own ethnicity descended from Azlanti ancestors mixed with Ulfen ancestors and they had a whole thing about believing themselves to be the true heirs of Azlant. Now that Cheliax's dominant group are technically ethnic Taldans in 2e I'm not sure if there's been anything confirming that they feel the same, but I also haven't seen anything implying that they DON'T still feel this way either.

I'd say go with what works for your game.

Not mine, but one of my players is running a 51 year old silver fox orc wizard who has 12 adult children that he's very proud of and keeps trying to fix up other party members and NPC's with.

He's the best.

Yeah, I think it's a symptom of Golarion (and D&D/PF in general) lowkey turning demons into kind of just the "kill kill kill" monsters. Demons are much more frightening and interesting if they're subtle and corruptive, with only some of them being interested in killing you.

Yeah I'd much prefer to see some demons engaging in subtle manipulations of people/groups/cities/nations with their core goal being corruption and destabilization.

It's even more terrifying if when found out and confronted demanding to know why they did it, the cold and frightening answer is "... do I need a reason?"

My Knights of Lastwall are more similar to the old Knights of Ozem than the new book portrays. I don't have them split into two factions, They're still largely an Iomedean organization. I didn't straight up cut out the new material so much as reorganized it. Part of the reason for this is I prefer the actual knightly order to be narrower in scope, largely martial, largely LG. I keep a lot of the KOL book material as being representative of the general tide of support that's flooded to Lastwall's cause in the wake of the country's destruction rather than being entirely under the umbrella of the knighthood.

This is entirely a preference thing, not a judgement of the book at all, which is great. I just like the old Knights of Ozem and didn't want to see their structure so thoroughly discarded for my own Golarion.

From my big Eye of Dread campaign, this is a bit of fluff from my own writeup of Vellumis. Again, not so much a break with canon as just me coloring in between the lines:

Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Oh, one thing I just remembered! I tend to run a Golarion in which homophobia and transphobia exist. I like to do this in part because my games tend to focus a lot on the social role of adventuring in society. Adventuring is an overwhelmingly queer and disability-inclusive profession in my worldbuilding, because, well, I figure you don't generally become an adventurer if everything in your home life is going swimmingly. There's gotta be a reason you've been pushed to the fringes.

Bigotry isn't universal, though. No, Old Deadeye doesn't go around kicking gay penguin couples off of icebergs. In Varisia, where I usually focus my games, it really varies from town to town. Communities with large Varisian or Shoanti populations tend to be a lot more chill. The Chelaxian- and Taldan-dominated cities are rougher. Sandpoint is, of course, an extremely nice place to move to if you're gay or trans, to the extent that it's sort of a regional joke on par with moving to San Francisco.

I don't necessarily harass PCs with it (and I always check in with them at the start of play), but it is a backdrop. Meanwhile, "adventurer bars" are basically gay bars, and you have to be careful when accepting an invitation to join an adventuring party to clarify whether this is an actual adventuring party, an invitation to someone's four-way, or both.

To be fully honest, I'm genuinely torn between the sheer hilarity of the nuances of this and the sheer wrongness I would feel if I were to actually try to portray racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia in any of my games as the actual GM.

Oh it would definitely be something that you could only pursue with total buy-in from your table, but I like it as a way to examine those issues in a fantastical context.

TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:

Oh another Orc change: Ardax White Hair is Neutral, not Neutral Evil. This lets me treat him as a ruler who will go to almost any lengths to protect his people, and who is a cunning, unpredictable leader without him having to be actively cruel and evil.

He's balancing a lot of plates between a lot of different factions in my games, and I feel like a N alignment better reflects his ability to maneuver them successfully than a NE one.

Interestingly, I changed an undead in the Dragon's demand from LN to LE because I felt being Evil was in no way incompatible with their actions.

IMO you do not have to be actively cruel and evil to be Evil. You just do not care one bit about what happens to innocents.

I like sympathetic NPCs, such as Ardax, still being Evil :-)

Yeah I have no beef with this interpretation. It's not necessarily mine, and I think him being the way he is in canon is pretty internally consistent.

This just worked better for the stories I want to tell.

Oh another Orc change: Ardax White Hair is Neutral, not Neutral Evil. This lets me treat him as a ruler who will go to almost any lengths to protect his people, and who is a cunning, unpredictable leader without him having to be actively cruel and evil.

He's balancing a lot of plates between a lot of different factions in my games, and I feel like a N alignment better reflects his ability to maneuver them successfully than a NE one.

iirc the OGL says something to the extent of "even if we change this in the future, you can keep using the original version." I believe that has held up in court at least once.

Not sure what Hasbro believes has changed.

TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:

I dunno if I'd call it a change, since we haven't gotten a ton on this part of the setting and it's internal dynamics yet so I think of it more as me coloring in the lines and empty spaces, but:

I've had the efforts of the Orcs to build sustainable and thriving community attract Erastil's attention. He has a number of clerics in Urgir that are starting to shift the culture away from its historical roots in violence and vendetta, reorienting Orcish honor-culture into things like the hunt and the concept of providing for family and less fortunate. These orcs are redefining what honor means for their people.

These clerics, and their flock, are coming into conflict with more hardline orcs who remember the old ways and don't want to forsake them. This cultural conflict is forming the primary boundaries of the hurdles orcs are going to have to overcome as they try to build a nation.

Bottom line, he's seen what they're trying to do, and is trying to help them.

Urgir is such a fascinating spot on the map, as the place where Avistan's orcs go when Belkzen doesn't work for them. I'd love to see a fresher look at it in 2e - and what you propose here is really, really compelling.

Thank you! I just love the idea of a deity like Erastil looking at what they're trying to do as a people, and especially their defiance of Tar-Baphon and saying "You're ready. I'm here, and as long as you stand thus, I stand behind you."

I dunno if I'd call it a change, since we haven't gotten a ton on this part of the setting and it's internal dynamics yet so I think of it more as me coloring in the lines and empty spaces, but:

I've had the efforts of the Orcs to build sustainable and thriving community attract Erastil's attention. He has a number of clerics in Urgir that are starting to shift the culture away from its historical roots in violence and vendetta, reorienting Orcish honor-culture into things like the hunt and the concept of providing for family and less fortunate. These orcs are redefining what honor means for their people.

These clerics, and their flock, are coming into conflict with more hardline orcs who remember the old ways and don't want to forsake them. This cultural conflict is forming the primary boundaries of the hurdles orcs are going to have to overcome as they try to build a nation.

Bottom line, he's seen what they're trying to do, and is trying to help them.

The Eye of Dread region--though I suspect Knights of Lastwall is gonna give us some of that. I'm especially curious about the relationship between the Knights and the Magaambayan Philanthropists who've showed up in Vellumis.

Hell, give me a writeup of Vellumis and that'll be more than enough to fuel my current campaign for a hot minute.

Iomedae had been among the Knights for only 2 years when Arazni was summoned and bound. No way she was one of the Knights' leaders at the time.

Gotcha. I have a hard time keeping track of the timelines.

So something occurred to me that doesn't seem to be covered in extant Lore. It's mentioned in Arazni's writeups that she simultaneously resents Iomedae for having achieved divinity so easily, but also is proud of her for succeeding as much as she has, and recognizes that nobody should be subjected to her ordeals.

But.

If that were true, I would imagine Arazni would view her with seething hatred. Given that she doesn't appear to, I'm not sure how to reconcile these two things. Anyone have any ideas on how to do so? Or do the devs have any way to untie this particular knot?

Arachnofiend wrote:

It sounds like most of your enjoyment of 3.5 was taking options that were never meant to be for players and giving them to your players anyways... in which case, yeah, PF2 probably isn't for you. Don't think that's a bad thing personally.

I'm pretty sure that Savage Species, the book that let players play as monsters, was specifically for player characters. The same thing goes for any template that had a Level Adjustment which specifically told you how many character levels they were - very roughly - supposed to be worth.

Almost everything else they used came from the various books that came out for 3.x and were designed to be fair game for players. The most corner case would be the Book of Vile Darkness but even then it wasn't that it couldn't be used by PCs, it was just that a typical good adventuring party would never want to use anything from it.

I also don't see why limiting your design space for the sake of balance is desirable. The game has a DM, after all, and they can decide which bits to use and which they'd rather not see at their table. Paizo didn't need to decide that for me.

It definitely sounds like this game isn't for you, as it's designed to place balance in a place of primacy. This is a good thing, but it's also clearly not something you want. That's fine. 3.x is still there, afterall.

No.

Dangit, I meant no, I don't miss it.

I just wanna briefly pipe up (almost never post here) and add to the discussion of competition for spotlight and say that in my various groups, I have not had this problem at all. In fact, a primary motive of every player at the table has been to ensure that everyone **else** is getting their moment in the sun. Literally people are yielding up left and right and acting in a way that elevates their teammates. It's really positive.

The idea of everyone jockying for their shot isn't universal by any means.

I would argue that PD2E's design both encourages this and makes it easier to do.

From what I know, striking an enemy with your pommel was not uncommon when a knight faced another armored knight. The blade of their sword could not easily pierce the armor, not could it be as easily maneuvered around the joints to pierce them. But you could use it as a improvised mace to knock someone's skull in after you had bashed them enough with the sword to knock them down.

Yup--HEMA teacher here. Pommel strikes are a big part of Harnisfechten (armored fighting). As is grabbing the blade midway up and using it like a short spear to get at the gaps and weak points in the armor.

Also just grabbing the blade and swinging the hilt at them like a poleaxe.

Okay, so, I've been going through my anniversary edition, and I'm a little curious, because it hasn't showed up yet in-text that I can find: is there a default time of year when the events of the first few adventures are assumed to take place? This is mostly just an atmosphere thing for me as I think about how to run it.

"This Whispering Way Cultist thought he was going to massacre this orphanage, but when one Glabrezu gets involved, you won't BELIEVE what happens next..."

I'm getting the sense that this to a very real degree comes down to that old "Only if you run it that way" argument.

Which isn't a problem, it's just that it also falls into "I just disagree" territory.

I think it's not unwise - from a design perspective - to design a setting the way they did, accounting for a certain type of jerkish behavior some players are known for rather than making one particularly vulnerable to it.

It is, afterall, a lot easier to redesign lower level versions of NPC's than it is to tack on a whole bunch of levels.

Now I wanna make Alain's Hipster brother.

"You've probably never heard of me."

I really dig Lastwall, largely because while they're presented as a regional power, that power is very tenuous, and waning as fewer and fewer heroes come to join them.

I actually really like that we have a LG Nature deity. Old Societies, and Nature, which Erastil represents, DO have fairly rigid rules and hierarchies.

It's also not something you see often in a fantasy setting, which makes it rather nice to see. There's this trope that "Civilization = Lawful, Tribal Culture = Chaotic" that has never sat well with me. Tribal Societies often have much, MUCH more rigid taboos and strictures than more modern ones.

Free-Thinking tends to come from the leisure resultant from plenty and safety that more organized, larger communities bring about.

Those Social Rolls required to properly keep your country in its place in the pecking order, and keep your vassals in line, can require a lot of levels.

Honestly appearance bothers me far less than the Special Snowflake mentality those races can attract. I actually really like all of them. They have great potential for good storytelling wrapped up in their natures. It's just that I hate to see it squandered by a player who just wants to spotlight hog.

A dramatic appearance can be great for storytelling at the table (or the messageboards, since most of my gaming is done online). I got no beef.

THAT is my go-to for a Paladin.

No-win scenarios frequently require too much arbitrary BS to produce them.

This thread is Mikaze's Spirit Animal.

I go with the Hybrid model, myself, with the caveat that you must be a Varisian, or at least have Varisian blood, to be allowed to join, similarly to how The Italian Mafia has artificial rank ceilings for people who are not full blooded Italian themselves.

Lawful has nearly nothing to do with laws.

This. This This This This This THIS.

It has to do with an orderly, disciplined, and, well, Lawful approach to life.

So basically military stratagies would look more like ww2, modern or even futuristic stratagies and tactics then medieval, reneassiance, or antiquity tactics/stratagies?

If one devises strategies by extrapolating the game rules to their logical pragmatic extremes, yes.

If you want a more rennaissance themed warfare, you can do it, it just requires intentional suspension of disbelief.

David walked into the valley
With a stone clutched in his hand
He was only a boy
But he knew someone must take a stand

There will always be a valley
Always mountains one must scale
There will always be perilous waters
Which someone must sail

Into valleys, into waters
Into jungles, into hell
Let us ride, let us ride home again with a story to tell
Into darkness, into danger
Into storms that rip the night
Don't give in, but give up
But give thanks for the glorious fight

You can tremble, you can fear it
But keep your fighting spirit alive boys
Let the shiver of it sting you
Fling into battle, spring to your feet boys
Never hold back your step for a moment
Never doubt that your courage will grow
Hold your head even higher and into the fire we go

Are there mountains that surround us?
Are there walls that block the way?
Knock 'em down, strip 'em back boys
And forward and into the fray

Into terror, into valour
Charge ahead, no, never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn

Someone has to face the valley
Rush in, we have to rally and win boys
When the world is saying not to
By God, you know you've got to march on, boys
Never hold back your step for a moment
Never doubt that your courage will grow
Hold your head ever higher and into the fire we go

Let the lightning strike
Let the flash of it shock you
Choke your fears away
Pull as tight as a wire
Let the fever strike
Let the force of it rock you
We will have our day, sailing into the fire

Someone has to face the valley
Rush in! We have to rally and win boys
When the world is saying not to
By God, you know you've got to march on, boys
Never hold back your step for a moment
Look alive! Oh, your courage will grow
Yes, it's higher and higher and into the fire we go
Into fire!
Onward, ho!

Sorry, my favorite song from one of my favorite musicals. I couldn't resist.

Grand Prince Stavian of Taldor insists he must have a complete, perfectly geopolitically accurate map of The Inner Sea. Accordingly he appoints the Player Characters Imperial Cartographers, tasked with traveling the entire breadth of Avistan and mapping out the borders of kingdoms and nation states.

And yes, they must go back and fix their work every time it changes.

Zhangar wrote:

Arazni, a mythic wizard lich in her own right, is one the people TB needs to worry about Alpha-Striking him once he got out - Arazni's strong enough that a fight between the two would come down to die rolls, and that's before she brings a posse. Managing to make an alliance with Geb under those circumstances would be a hard trick.

Yes, they should hate each other. But wouldn't it be something if Arazni became the Whispering Tyrant's consort?

... Did you just turn this scenario into the ultimate villainous love-triangle?

Hey all. I'm running a campaign which may feature this apocalyptic scenario (the assumption here is the breaching of the Great Seal) and find myself wanting to pick the brains of the smart folks around here.

Tar-Baphon escapes. Assume for the purposes of this scenario the following:

-He is in full possession of all his artifacts as-statted in Mythic Realms, all his spells are prepared. He is good to go.

-There is not a band of heroes awaiting him right at the exit. Assumptions about how long it takes regional powers to muster a response to his emergence can be part of the suggestions that follow.

-The world is as-is in the Inner Sea World Guide. That is: None of the Adventure Paths have taken place.

-Via Scrying magic, he's been more or less able to keep tabs on the state of the world during his imprisonment. The lay of the land is not foreign to him upon his escape

Assuming these things, what I'm wondering is does he go for subtle: I.E. "hide his return for awhile, build up his power base a bit, THEN do something big" or does he go for big and huge right off the bat: I.E. "Teleport straight into the heart of Castle Overwatch, murder everyone there and raise a horde of the dead from his enemy's corpses."

Or any degree in-between.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Remco Sommeling wrote:

All I am saying that these people are not 'wrong' for feeling differently than you do.

Yes, they are. In this case anyway. Prejudice is bad, not including any particular kind of real people (race, sexuality, gender, whatever) in a fantasy world intended to be inclusive is thus bad. Full stop. Not all prejudiced people are bad people, but that doesn't change the fact that they're wrong.

OK, I'd like to offer the suggestion that it is the thought(s) that are wrong, not the individuals for just having them.

As a personal example... I have lived my entire life here in the American (U.S.) South, and was/am constantly exposed to many racist and homophobic "ideas"/misconceptions; I say "ideas" because when unpacked/analyzed, there doesn't seem to be much critical analysis involved before they get absorbed. Growing up with one openly racist/homophobic parent, I and my two siblings unfortunately absorbed these misconceptions along with other invalid information (largely "Calvin's dad"-type harmless mis-explanations). As I grew older and more self-actualized, I confronted him (often loudly and frequently) on his racist and homophobic misconceptions, and by high school age, had completely rejected them. But...

To my complete cringing shame, those lies still unexpectedly popped into my head around people of different ethnicities, non-vanilla hetero sexualities, and non-CIS identities. I didn't act negatively on those thoughts (other than self-hate)--often friendly over-compensating in reactions with such individuals--but I still had those lies popping in to my thoughts without my control. I now think of them as "bad wiring" that I consciously immediately route around, but I've largely accepted I'm likely stuck with them for the rest of my life. Worse, I still fear that despite consciously rejecting them, they may still influence...

I wanted to pop back into this thread earlier because there was some really interesting debate going on when I last stepped out, but holy jeepers it got long. And I was very very intimidated.

Glad to see it's still going, though. For those of us - like me - who are less in the thick of this ongoing subject, threads like these with their soap-box potential for people who are more deeply involved and well learned on the issue are extremely useful and illuminating.

So thank you for sharing your stories and worldviews. It helps to be able to read points of view and experiences I don't often get to see stated so plainly.

Plus, an army of celestials vs an army of demons is a great way to completely trash the planet and make life not very nice for most mortals.

Espagnoll wrote:

Quote:

Tar-Baphon is just an insane nhilist (or used to be, the imprisonment on Gallowspire perhaps has changed his mind) which pretty much was a pawn of a bigger threat.

LOL! So the party finally batters their way through the levels of Gallowspire only to be met by Tar-Baphon wearing a flowing white robe, lyre in hand..."Welcome heroes, have you heard the word of Shelyn?"

Nah, Brah, he's become a Stoner down there.

I'd buy a Kaijitsus of Golarion. ;)

Even if it has to be padded a bit with the likes of Bob Kaijitsu, a completely unrelated fisherman whose adventure hooks revolve entirely around taking fish to market and mending nets.

And whose days are punctuated by periodic insistence that no, he's not part of THAT Kaijitsu family.

One was successful.