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In honor of the recent release of Pokemon GO, I was thinking of trying to create statblocks for some different Pokemon. I thought this until I remembered my lack of expertise in the area of statting out creatures. So, I thought I would turn the idea over the forums! So, if you guys want to, go ahead and stat up any Pokemon you think would be interesting or cool to stat up.
My thoughts were to either use the "moves" as spell like abilities or just negate moves entirely. Either way, I am interested in seeing what you make!
Which Pokemon are we talking about here? Many common ones can probably use an existing creature's template but some of the cooler ones like Absol and any legendary would need individual statting. And yeah, for moves they'll need either SLAs or supernatural abilities depending on which move you want for them, or natural attacks in some instances.
I also suggest not taking the Pokedex too literally when it gives out a number, otherwise you have magcargoes running around melting everything. Not to mention that Pokemon are pretty small, it;s rare for a fully evolved one to go outside of the medium size range.
There's already a 3.5e Pokemon homebrew I believe. Statting Pokemon, however, would take a lot of work.
I was just throwing out the challenge to stat up any pokemon you want to the people who feel like doing it.
And yeah, be a bit generous with the sizing on the pokemon.
What do you mean by being generous? It's probably better to give them the appropriate size categories as pathfinder would find them at, to also avoid any confusion. That being the case, there isn't any Pokemon that passes huge range, from what it seems like.
Some do, for example wailord exceeds colossal space limits at 47'7".What do you mean by being generous? It's probably better to give them the appropriate size categories as pathfinder would find them at, to also avoid any confusion. That being the case, there isn't any Pokemon that passes huge range, from what it seems like.I was just throwing out the challenge to stat up any pokemon you want to the people who feel like doing it.
And yeah, be a bit generous with the sizing on the pokemon.
That's not how the game works, with size categories. A space of a monster doesn't tell you it's exact size because their abstracted and made for ease of use. For example, a sea serpent in bestiary 1 is 60-ft long and is a 20-ft square, where as one advanced to colossal is 300-ft long and is still a 30-ft square.
I thought this was already covered by the summoner?
We also joked about an alchemist with summon monster balls (potions). :)
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He's asking for a statblocks for the pokemon themselves, not a pokemon trainer themed class. The Summoner and Preservationist Alchemist are pretty poor fits for a pokemon trainer class anyways; it's good for a joke, but their similarities begin and end with "gets monsters to do their fighting for them".
As to the topic of creature size and space, it's an abstraction. There is actually a table that maps specific lengths to creature sizes, and by those standards Wailord is gargantuan. No pokemon is big enough to register is colossal, so this is not actually a problem.
Anyhow, best place to start is always at #1
Bulbasaur CR 2
XP 600
N Small Magical Beast
Init +1; Senses Darkvision 60 ft, Perception +8
AC 14, touch 13, flat-footed 11 (Dex +2, Natural +1, Size +1)
HP 25 (3d10+9)
Fort +7, Reflex +4, Will +3
Immune Poison; Resists Electric 10
Weak Vulnerability to Fire, Cold
Speed 20 ft
Melee 2 Tentacles +4 (1d6+1 plus grab)
Ranged 2 Razor Leaf +5 (1d6+1)
Special Attacks Constrict (1d4+1), Growth, Leech Seed, Reach (Tentacles)
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 6, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +3; CMB +3 (+7 Grappling); CMD 13 (17 vs trip)
Feats Great Fortitude, Toughness
Skills Perception +8
Language Common (can't speak)
SQ Clorophyll
Chlorophyll
Bulbasaur has a symbiotic relationship with a plant growing on its back. Under bright sunlight conditions the plant produces additional energy for Bulbasaur, increasing its metabolism. Bulbasaur's base land speed doubles and it gains a +4 bonus to initiative.
Growth
3 times per day as a standard action, Bulbasaur can grow one size category for 1 minute. If it is in bright sunlight when using this ability, Bulbasaur instead grows two size categories. Bulbasaur gains a +2 size bonus to strength, a -2 penalty to dexterity, and a +1 increase to its natural armor for each size category it increases, and the damage dice of all its attacks increases by one step.
Leech Seed
3 times per day as a standard action, Bulbasaur can command the plant on its back to fire seeds at an opponent. Bulbasaur must succeed on a ranged touch attack. If it hits, the seeds immediate germinate and begin to drain the life from the target. The target suffers 3 points of damage per turn at the end of its turn, and Bulbasaur heals the same amount of damage. The seeds can be removed as a full-round action with a DC 10 strength or heal check, but otherwise continue to drain health until the target is dead.
Razor Leaf
Bulbasaur can command the symbiotic plant on its back to fire razor sharp leaf-like projectiles. As a standard action it can fire one leaf, and as a full-round action it can fire two. This is a ranged attack with a 20 ft range increment. Bulbasaur adds its strength modifier to the damage of these attacks.
Overall I'm a bit concerned I gave a few too many goodies to a CR 2 (almost gave it poison powder, but decided that would be WAY over the top). This Bulbasaur would have a moveset of Vine Whip, Razor Leaf, Leech Seed, and Growth with the ability Chlorophyll. I feel that's a nice mix that represents what Bulbasaur is in the games and how it's been presented in the media.
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Shouldn't Razor Leaf have less power but also have an 18-20 crit rate? Or at least 19-20.
Critical hits in pokemon work very differently than in pathfinder, so I wouldn't worry too much about an exact conversion. But yeah, 18-20 critical threat range with a lower damage dice would be a reasonably faithful representation. It's been too long for me to edit the post, but I approve of that modifications.
Other minor corrections: initiative should be +2, reflex save should be +5, CMD should be 15 (19 vs trip). I swapped its strength and dexterity at the last second and didn't correct all the fields appropriately.
I also suggest not taking the Pokedex too literally when it gives out a number, otherwise you have magcargoes running around melting everything.
I personally would disagree. Pokemon show a powerful set of abilities. I think people undersell their abilities to be more in line with common creatures, but they are supposed to be extremely extraordinary. The anime is not really a faithful interpretation. Ninetales, a not very heavily stated Pokemon, can use mind control and turn people into Pokemon.
The first thing I would suggest is a Pokemon sub-type being designed with the appoperate Pokemon type rules spelled out in it.
I personally would disagree. Pokemon show a powerful set of abilities.
The pokedex entries are comically hyperbolic. In the case of Magcargo, the pokedex entry lists a heat level that's so extreme that it would reduce everything for miles around into an irradiated wasteland. If you actually statted Magcargo like this, it would actually end up being unfaithful.
PTU (pokemon tabletop united) might be a good place to look for research.
Personally, I say just develop a standard set of conversion rules as a skeleton, then fill in the gaps.
I'd also make all the moves separate and either allow then be learned as swappable SLAs, or as a special "spell list" of sorts for innate "spellcasting."
Also, since pokemon is generally about raising and training pokemon, I would avoid setting them as set statblocks like the beastiary, instead treating them each like a race/class combo with progression.
I personally believe the best way to emulate Pokemon in pathfinder is just make a summoner and then use the Eidolon as your Pokemon.
I personally would disagree. Pokemon show a powerful set of abilities.The pokedex entries are comically hyperbolic. In the case of Magcargo, the pokedex entry lists a heat level that's so extreme that it would reduce everything for miles around into an irradiated wasteland. If you actually statted Magcargo like this, it would actually end up being unfaithful.
How is that so much different from "a wizard did it?" I am well aware of what is expressed in Pokedexes. But isn't it more fun to have characters reseaching what keeps Magcargo in check rather than dismissing it out of hand?
These are inherently high powered magic ridden creatures. In a game where Wish exists we will just dismiss those as too absurd?
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How is that so much different from "a wizard did it?" I am well aware of what is expressed in Pokedexes. But isn't it more fun to have characters reseaching what keeps Magcargo in check rather than dismissing it out of hand?
These are inherently high powered magic ridden creatures. In a game where Wish exists we will just dismiss those as too absurd?
It's sort of like if the bestiary said that fire elementals were as hot as the surface of the sun, yet still only dealt 1d6 fire damage. It looks stupid and no one is going to actually rule that it deals any more than 1d6 fire damage.
It's sort of like if the bestiary said that fire elementals were as hot as the surface of the sun, yet still only dealt 1d6 fire damage. It looks stupid and no one is going to actually rule that it deals any more than 1d6 fire damage.How is that so much different from "a wizard did it?" I am well aware of what is expressed in Pokedexes. But isn't it more fun to have characters researching what keeps Magcargo in check rather than dismissing it out of hand?
These are inherently high powered magic ridden creatures. In a game where Wish exists we will just dismiss those as too absurd?
That's exactly my point in reverse. Why would a Pokemon do damage as low as 1d6 fire damage? From my point of view, it looks stupid and feels stupid for these monsters to do extremely low damage.
We are talking about a fully evolved fire-type Pokemon. It's CORE body temperature is hotter than the Sun's SURFACE. For people who aren't aware, the Sun's surface is no where near "hotter than the Sun." I can come up with far more terrifying entries, such as Alakazam or Gardevoir, without even thinking. Fully evolved Pokemon are far better suited to mythic or gestalt games than even trying to fit into low CR.
On another note, a level 1 Weedle (one of the weakest Pokemon) should at least be as or more dangerous than a Venomous Snake. And a swarm of them isn't remotely dangerous to a level 5 Bulbasaur. Magcargo are fully evolved level 38 Pokemon. Somehow my eyeball math isn't putting them on the same level as an Elder Fire Elemental.
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That's exactly my point in reverse. Why would a Pokemon do damage as low as 1d6 fire damage?
From my point of view, it looks stupid and feels stupid for these monsters to do extremely low damage.
You realize that the damage we're talking about is you wanting a non-legendary pokemon to melt the planet simply by existing right? I think it'd be a lot more reasonable that it's flamethrower attack deals at least 4d6 damage (which is how much damage a flamethrower does in Pathfinder), rather than infinite damage auto-apocalypse caused by slugma simply evolving into it.
We are talking about a fully evolved fire-type Pokemon.
So? You're giving it power equal to a god.
I can come up with far more terrifying entries, such as Alakazam or Gardevoir, without even thinking. Fully evolved Pokemon are far better suited to mythic or gestalt games than even trying to fit into low CR.
I think you need to remember these entries have been written by a ten year old, not a scientist. The "black hole" a Gardevoir is probably just the kid misunderstanding the telekinetic move known as Psychic. Even if it did create a black hole, that's.... not actually that impressive, kineticists can chuck gravity at people at level one.
You realize that the damage we're talking about is you wanting a non-legendary pokemon to melt the planet simply by existing right? I think it'd be a lot more reasonable that it's flamethrower attack deals at least 4d6 damage (which is how much damage a flamethrower does in Pathfinder), rather than infinite damage auto-apocalypse caused by slugma simply evolving into it.
You are sciencing wrong. Temperatures three times a Magcargo have existed on planet earth in the form of Lightning Bolts. Granted, they exist as a flash in the pan, but there is a huge difference between something's inner temperature and it's outer temperature.
So? You're giving it power equal to a god.
Absolutely.
As The Sideromancer correctly points out, there are "normal" Pokemon that battle gods. And that's in terms of the Uber tier, where Pokemon are fought at their absolute best in a competitive format. A "wild god" is far less frightening and easy to take down. Heck, there are SEVERAL demi-gods and Regigigas in the PU tier. On par with Raticate.
In the Pokemon world, a rat will take on demi-gods. Oh, and the being that gave the world emotions is NU. Have fun!
You realize that the damage we're talking about is you wanting a non-legendary pokemon to melt the planet simply by existing right? I think it'd be a lot more reasonable that it's flamethrower attack deals at least 4d6 damage (which is how much damage a flamethrower does in Pathfinder), rather than infinite damage auto-apocalypse caused by slugma simply evolving into it.You are sciencing wrong. Temperatures three times a Magcargo have existed on planet earth in the form of Lightning Bolts. Granted, they exist as a flash in the pan, but there is a huge difference between something's inner temperature and it's outer temperature.
So? You're giving it power equal to a god.Absolutely.
As The Sideromancer correctly points out, there are "normal" Pokemon that battle gods. And that's in terms of the Uber tier, where Pokemon are fought at their absolute best in a competitive format. A "wild god" is far less frightening and easy to take down. Heck, there are SEVERAL demi-gods and Regigigas in the PU tier. On par with Raticate.
In the Pokemon world, a rat will take on demi-gods. Oh, and the being that gave the world emotions is NU. Have fun!
I feel like bringing in leveling mechanics straight from the game boy games is going to make any conversions difficult, considering these notions like a "rat will take on demigods" wouldn't ever fly in the anime or manga. Maybe they do, I guess I never heard of it.
On mythic, Yes. Aegislash, Mega Mawile, and a few other "common" 'mons are considered on the same level as actual gods. A theory I subscribe to is that Pokeballs also function as power limiters, so that the pokemon league can stay standing for any length of time. This is also why, when teams need legendries to destroy regions, they are restrained through methods other than normal capture (e.g. Cyrus and lake trio, Ghetis and Kyurem, Lysandre and Xerneas/Yveltal)
These pokemon aren't any more powerful when you're in the process of capturing them while they're wild, so that theory isn't without holes.
Part of the issue is that the pokemon games throw around huge multipliers, and they all stack. Used a Rock-type attack with a Rock-type pokemon? 1.5x power. Opponent is weak to Rock? 2x power. Used Swords Dance the turn before? 2x power. Equipped a Life Orb? 1.3x power. Your grand total comes to 7.8x your normal damage.
The anime and manga have rarely - if ever - given proper representation to the actual level of preparation that good trainers make in game. You can stack so many bonuses that you turn rats and shrews into demigods.
I personally believe the best way to emulate Pokemon in pathfinder is just make a summoner and then use the Eidolon as your Pokemon.
I'd disagree; the similarities begin and end with "uses a monster to fight for you". It's a fine representation if you're just looking for something pokemon-inspired, but if you're looking to explicitly import pokemon into your Pathfinder game it's a poor fit.
Rats chew into demigods by holding a not dying scarf, using a move that makes their HP the same, and then striking really quickly, but the rest of Dasrak's point stands. It's part of why rain teams were so powerful in 5th gen, one of the best types was getting 1.5 power twice on their best moves.
Anyways, I think the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon spin offs might be helpful for this. That puts the guys on a grid based combat system and changes the moves and some abilities to fit with it. For example, Flamethrower has a pretty long range (10 squares) while Thunderbolt hits every adjacent enemy.
I agree with looking at mystery dungeon.
As for flavor text, that is the last thing I would base any pokemon stats on. Besides, the flavor descriptions can be easily considered to be common knowledge about those pokemon, and therefore possibly exaggerated or otherwise incorrect. Certainly the real world has plenty of incorrect common knowledge.
I'd look rather at the relative stats of various moves and abilities and run from there, bringing in the flavor text so long as it isn't too contradictory, but if the flavor text is contradictory, then it needs to be solved and one possible solution is that common knowledge is incorrect. I would avoid overusing that but it can resolve a few things.