Anyway, I answered a few questions and posted the updated character creation rules. I am about to log off of Paizo for the night.
Before I do, however, let me state something that I found amusing. Some people think that immunity to energy types means invulnerability. Well, does anyone know how Flamestrike works? What about Hellfire? Apply that principle to many creatures that you will encounter and that immunity means 50% less damage. Not that it isn't useful though, because damage is going to be insane on both sides of this campaign. It is not just the be-all, end-all of powers.
Okay folks, I'm back! I'm in the process of skimming through the thread now. My internet has been down and my buddy, Benighted Regent, has had a broken arm and I haven't wanted to bother him. Still, this post is a long time coming, so let's go over some basic stuff.
The first thing that I wanted to address Johnny...Panic. Based on several of the posts I have read of yours, warnings from a legion of people (Some of which have not even posted on this thread, some of which I personally know,), your number of dropped profiles and such, I believe it best to inform you that you will not be selected for either table. I realize that this may make people angry or come off as a crass move, but I would rather state this now so that all parties can let the situation rest rather than wait until the day when you do not get picked and then there is a long rage post that will inevitably spark an online flame war. This way, I save everyone time and keep things from getting heated on the messageboards.
That rather unpleasant topic aside, here are a few things that I wanted to discuss.
I will be posting a redone character creation process later tonight that features updated numerical values, errata, and a completely new system of working on your Legendary Items, since my explanations were rather poor in regards to those in retrospect. Expect to see this new set of guidelines in the Campaign Info tab by midnight EST at the latest.
I will post the FP costs of any Fiendish Power abilities that I assign for people in the document.
I'm probably going to see if Benighted Regent will let me borrow his internet router for the night so that I can catch up on all these posts! I will be looking through the thread to see if there is any relevant information that needs answering. After that, I will reply to some private messages. Hopefully I can have everyone's questions answered tonight.
Anyway, my coworker finally got medicated and sent back to work, so after a few more hours, I can finally start working on answering all these questions you guys and gals have!
Ability Score-boosting items are NOT banned, although they still cannot take you above your inital cap of 24+size modifications.
Your Legendary Items are bound to your very being. You may summon them from your very being or dismiss them back into yourself as a standard action. Also, regarding Legendary Item Abilities, you may message my profile with ideas on what you want them to do. They ARE Minor Artifacts after all! Just don't propose any 'Sphere of Annihilation as a sword' type nonsense and I can probably help you get something close to what you want.
Trust me, I already reign in CHA based autowins. I have had enough players go that route to say 'this creature cannot be swayed by words' or 'this creature is swayed, but still doesn't really like you'.
Remember folks: You may also use levels from any side of the gestalt to acquire templates, with the calculation of (level=CR-1, mimunim of 1). These templates DO NOT grant any ability score bonuses and any DR, SR, AC, or similar bonuses from templates DO NOT STACK, with you only receiving the highest of any particular one that you possess.
Bigrig107: TarkXT is correct on the Vicious weapon versus DR question. Typeless damage is not subject to DR.
Gobo Horde: Have you figured out which concept that you want to play?
Rednal: I like how you plan on going with the tempation route! It's so much better than "Wut u want, bruh? We'z got Wish and we'll give it to you fer yer soul!", which is how SO many evil outsider tempters have been played over the years.
Tenro: PM some ideas to my account regarding the unique abilities that you are asking for. Also, Monkeygod is correct regarding RP/FP differences.
Cthulhu_Eats: No Nem, it does not stack Initiator levels due to the way each side is considered it's own portion.
Dragonflyer1234: You gain two Legendary Items. If they are weapons or armor, they are the equivalent of a +6. They also gain Legendary Abilities. AND you may spend part of your 'innate magic item GP' pool to enhance them instead of yourself, if you so desire. Does that answer your question?
Monkeygod: Fallen pets include things like Imps, Hellhounds, Hellcats, Nightmares, and such. Was there a specific class that you were asking for a pet for?
Johnnycat93: There is no 'typical amount', but usually cost from 1-10 Fiendish Power. The amount you have is in the first post.
Tenro: The GP allowance in abilities and the two Legendary Items are two separate things, though you may use the not-GP to enhance the weapons, if you desire. You may also splice abilities into weapons, if you choose weapons. You may either get Powerful Build as a Fiendish Power or take Monkey Grip as a feat.
Monkeygod: You count as your HD for purposes of calculating that sort of thing.
The Archlich: Yes to your first two questions, no on the third, and remember, you get legendary items and innate magic abilities, not a straight 150,000 GP in equipment.
HighonHolyWater: I will allow that, but isn't it cheaper to just enchant them?
Philo Pharynx: Yes. With the list though, read one of my last posts. I have broadened the possibilities, essentially eliminating the need for a list.
MordredofFairy: You may scavenge abilities from those books.
Cthulhu_Eats: Just pick the FCB that you want.
Thunderbeard: You may take the speed boosts, despite having Slow Speed.
Rednal: It fits perfectly, actually! I am allowing it, along with most other templates from the Pathways series. Cataclysm Creature and Daikaiju are disallowed for obvious reasons. 1,000 damage to everything within one mile, no save, is bonkers, as is just becoming a SUPER KAIJU!!!
HighonHoly Water: You may spend part of your GP allowance on innate magic items on enchanting your fists/natural attacks as if they are weapons. Does that sound amenable?
Monkeygod: Yes, if it requires MP. This is due to the character's, and by extension their item's, severed connection to the Heavens.
MordredofFairy: Is that your complete list?
Fnord72: I would houserule that it is reduced to a free action. While this may seem like handwaiving, there are effects which can prevent free actions, so it may be important to note.
Monkeygod: You can power it by expending 10 HP, representing a portion of your soul that you put into the shot. Once everyone goes Mythic, you can use MP to do so. You may add the powers from Oathbow and other stuff, yes. You may do so with your 'innate magic item' pool of gold, since the item is one of your legendary items.
For every gallon of water an electric creature is exposed to, it takes 1d8 damage. If it is submerged in water, the damage increases to 1d10 per round it is submerged, but also does 1d6 electricity damage to all within a radius equal to the electric creature's space.
That said, it IS Hell, so how many creatures would have or even care to utilize Create Water? I can see it being an interesting thing to deal with in some environments though.
Cuan: Occult Adventures is allowed, as I have that book.
And, if reading as written, that wouldn't even be true. You could impale an infinite number of enemies on your dagger, hahaha.
Flaming Spear+this=enemy kabobs? All joking aside, I think space issues prevent this from happening, but it was still an amusing idea when I first saw it!
Battlespy: Most of the templates on d20pfsrd are legal for use in this campaign. As for the Advanced Bestiary, it is a 3PP book. It is, I believe, $15 for the full PDF, but it is SO awesome!
TarkXT: Glad I could fulfill that angelic murderbot wet dream! It is a pretty awesome concept, so I would have been remiss to not allow it.
JonGarrett: I will allow that Legendary Item modification. Still going for the 'halo' of firearms that I read in the old thread?
Rednal: What templates are you taking? I know several that would fit that concept!
Just going to copy Benighted Regent's format for addressing questions.
This recruitment is so much more complex than any other that I have seen, but it just makes me more interested in the campaign itself! The thoughtful questions here show that people know the system and I don't have to worry about forgetting some trivial detail and it flowering into a full-scale problem once the campaigns begin.
For Legendary Items, I propose that they gain additional powers as you level. For purposes of legendary weapons or armor, assume that they have the equivalent of a +6 bonus already. For other legendary items, drop a line on the thread about what you might be interested in as far as abilities. Also, my mistake in noting that they were not already Minor Artifacts. That will teach me to post after I've been to a party!
You cannot buy any more ability scores with EP or RP, unless that change is due to size increase or decrease.
You know what folks? Screw the list of powers... you may look at ANY Bestiary creature and propose powers that you want to scavenge from each! I will assign their point costs after you propose the ability to me. This way, everyone has a SUPER broad range of awesome abilities that aren't just limited to what classic evil outsiders have! The reason I am doing this is so that people can select things that fit their character more. I reserve the right, as always, to disallow abilities that do not suit the campaign.
ALL of the Path of War and Psionics materials are allowed. For that matter, all d20pfsrd material, unless I specifically ban it, is allowed. I thought I stated that earlier? I may have forgotten.
Any becoming Undead gain the (Extraplanar, Fallen, Evil) subtypes. This is because, even though you are Undead, you are still a Fallen.
Bigrig107: The Marilith's Multiweapon Mastery IS going to be available under Fiendish Powers. As for Legendary Items, Tier 5. You will go beyond tier scaling in this campaign, as far as the items go.
Battlespy: Multiple sets of arms are as relevant as you want them to be. As for the Rage/Bloodrage, they are combined in each way as far as pools and the additional DR/FH are concerned. However, this means that you cannot enter a Rage AND a Bloodrage at the same time. Is that something that makes sense? The AC cap is from any combination of natural AC purchases from EP and RP COMBINED. I am not having people run around with 63 AC at 12th level, while completely naked. You are correct on template level use.
Nidoran Duran: You may use EP to increase your size, yes.
Johnnycat93: It was not oversight. I did that so that people wouldn't try to stack SR from both.
TarkXT: Would you like to have the abilities from Robots and Clockworks scavenged for your concept? I'm sure THOSE would make you actually p!$$ LSD and rainbow unicorns both! Also, you may buy the Constructed power of the Inevitables for 10 Fiendish Power. This is due to the massive amount of immunities that it grants you, as well as the bonus HP and no loss in CON. You may also use the Limbjack template, if you want.
Wondering_Monster: The bonuses were included in their base ability scores, so no, you cannot go above 24. If you go Large, you adjust accordingly... same if you go Small.
MordredofFairy: You may use EP to improve your Winged Flight. And that is a fair assumption to make.
Rednal: Warlord is allowed. Mythic Mania is allowed for Legendary Items. It is also allowed for when the PCs gain a Mythic Rank and can start taking Mythic stuff.
Fnord72: You can use fractional BAB if you wish to. Regarding d20pfsrd, yes, although I reserve the right to disallow anything that I feel doesn't fit, especially in light of one of my bolded new rules above. You may take any number of PRCs at one time, but you cannot level dip in classes with spellcasting and level up 3 'hybrid classes' that basically allow you to multiple full-casting levels after you dipped levels.
Rynjin: You are correct and may handwaive the requirements since you already meet the prerequisite, even if you got it from another method. You may also substitute Solar Wind for Black Seraph. In the fluff, the fiends GIVE this discipline's knowledge, so it wouldn't make sense that they would have to learn it separately.
HighonHolyWater: Only in D&D 4.0 did angels of any sort even age, unless it was a weird seasonal aging/growing younger thing, which I think was only one nature-oriented celestial. So no, they do not age.
Benighted Regent has pointed out to me earlier that people would probably prefer their questions answered directly, using their name before typing the reply. Is this standard practice? Would people prefer it? It has been so long since I posted, I do not even know.
Length of Backstory: Any you feel is necessary to fully flesh out your character. I much prefer well-written backgrounds, though not necessarily exhaustive ones.
Recruitment Period: Unknown, but likely spanning 2-3 weeks, maybe more if promising applications are taking a bit longer.
Setting: Good question, as I was honestly going to put that to a vote! Do people want the Golarion or D&D 3.X version of Hell? The Golarion Hell is much more of a totalitarian, police state type place while the 3.X version of Hell has much more Machiavellian power-scheming going on, along with a looser system.
Changing Base Forms: Not in-game. You will change as your character falls, but that is the opening scene and should already be figured into the character. You can choose from any of the Eidolon Base Forms, including, if you have the 3PP Summoner book (Don't remember the name), the Amorphous base form, for those looking to play the weird angels whose forms might consist of a swarm of smaller angels with a hivemind or a sentient glob of celestial energy.
Buying Outsider Type: No, it's free!
Legacy Item/Legendary Item: I meant Legendary Item, I just confuse the terminology occasionally. Old Guard 3.X players know why!
Legendary Item: Your item starts at a baseline of five abilities. When you gain mythic ranks (SPOILER!), it will increase. As well, it automatically upgrades to Minor Artifact and Major Artifact status as you gain Mythic Ranks, requiring no expenditures to get such upgrades.
Base Racial Modifiers: Essentially, you do have a +2 bonus across all your ability scores.
Eidolon Form Stuff: You do not get ANYTHING from the Eidolon block other than what is listed, that being the base form (NOT the stats, just the movement, body shape, and free evolutions).
Flight: Supernatural has always been better for pure movement, that's a fact. However, wings are cool, thematic, AND allow you to buy Wing Buffet as attacks! I know that more people than just Benighted Regent are going to go for wings, despite wings not being the min-max, optimized approach.
Gobo Horde's List of Questions: All of those are correct. The cap on arms is just applying to people purchasing more, not giving people the option for free extra arms. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but I'm clarifying it.
Benighted Regent has two major concepts right now: one is an Aztec-like version of the angel of death who holds a black mirror of obsidian that he can use for cool stuff and the other is a fallen angel of prophecy who saw the future ruined by mortals and now plots to annihilate and/or subvert them before his grim vision can come to pass. Both, from my understanding, will be heavy casters.
Okay folks, I'm about to log off of Paizo for the night and go play Hearthstone with Benighted Regent. You all take care in the meantime and work on those characters!
Here is the long awaited recruitment for the Fallen Sons and Daughters of Heaven campaign!
For those who did not check out the initial interest check, this is a crazy-powered campaign set in the Lower Planes. The PCs are all recently-fallen angels who begin their long plummet down into the darkness of Hell. After a short time learning how to survive in Hell, cut off as they are from the energies of the Heavens that once sustained them, they will work to leave their mark on the multiverse.
This campaign will feature all the usual facets of adventuring, but will also utilize kingdom and cult building.
Before people read the campaign rules and assume that nothing from the bestiary is going to be a challenge to PCs but the most powerful, you are correct... but that does not take into account that the bestiary entries of creatures are their BASELINE power levels. In Hell, only the most exceptional rise in station and how many out of those beings are content to languish at a set power level for millenia? Very few, I would suspect! Most enemies that the PCs will face are tristalt as well, with many having mythic ranks and generous amounts of templates and each 'big boss creature' having Dual Initiative. So, before there is the inevitable 'but balance', just throw all ideas of balance out the window and prepare yourself for the awesomeness that is this campaign!
I will be selecting two groups of PCs, one for each table that I plan on running so, despite the numbers of probable applicants, do not let yourself be intimidated.
Okay, so let me get the character creation out of the way!
Level and Class Information:
Tristalt 13. This works like gestalt, although instead of melding 2 classes for each level you have, you meld 3.
With regard to classes, everything on the SRD is allowed, save for Paladin, though Antipaladins can be of any evil alignment.
Be warned, however, that I am NOT looking for concepts that are about 'summon everything', because I DO NOT want the thread to be glutted with 50 creatures. It might seem cool, but it's not happening on my watch, not in this campaign. Any creatures that you summon will likely be obsolete and will only serve as paper dummys that get wrecked in moments anyway.
You may also use levels from any side of the gestalt to acquire templates, with the calculation of (level=CR-1, mimunim of 1). These templates DO NOT grant any ability score bonuses and any DR, SR, AC, or similar bonuses from templates DO NOT STACK, with you only receiving the highest of any particular one that you possess.
Ability Scores:
Okay, so here's the thing, you are all angels. You each start with a baseline score of 12 in each of the six stats. From there, you may spend 30 points on ability scores. Each point spent raises the stat by one. You may raise any individual score up to a value of 24 at initial character creation. You also gain the normal ability score bonuses from your levels. Please note that if, later in the character creation process, you decide to become undead or incorporeal, you will NOT gain any bonuses from your stat, it is simply gone.
Creating Your Fallen:
All of the Fallen are unique beings, more unique than the angels they fell from or the fiends that they will reside among. Hence, you will be allowed to build your Fallen in most any manner.
You will be able to use the ARG to build your race, but may select any of the 'base forms' for Eidolons as a body type.
You gain 30 points to buy racial stuff from the ARG with, though ability score bonuses are banned and AC bonuses cap at +4.
You also gain the equivalent of 10 Evolution Points from the Eidolon list to add to your character. These points may be spent on anything but ability score bonuses and AC/SR/DR.
Arms cap at 3 sets (Six arms), so there are no 'hundred handed ones' in the group.
Each character also has the power of flight. You choose either Winged Flight or Supernatural Flight. Winged Flight functions at base speed x2 with Good Maneuverability, functions in antimagic zones, gives you wings, which allows you to select the Wing Buffet natural attack from the Eidolon list of abilities, should you decide to spend points on it, but does not function if you are unable to use your wings somehow. Supernatural Flight functions at base speed x3 with Perfect Maneuverability, allows you to move in any combination of directions while airborn, and can be used even if physically restrained or immobilized, but is completely negated in areas of antimagic.
You also gain immunity to ONE type of energy damage of your choice, chosen at character creation. Choices include fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic, negative energy, and positive energy.
Your type is Outsider (Evil, Fallen).
You also have several powers and limitations as Fallen, but it is up to you to discover those in-game. Benighted Prince spoiled a few of the weaknesses in the interest check, but no more shall be spoiled
Alignment:
NO Chaotic Evil or non-evil alignments. You were evil enough to be cast from Heaven into Hell, so you are not anything resembling good or neutral. I also have a distaste for CE depictions of the Fallen. I am aware that the latter is a personal preference, but please stray from the CE stuff. Your Fallen is in Hell anyway.
Traits:
You gain two Traits. The flavor can be altered, assuming that it makes sense.
Skills:
You gain 3 bonus Skill Points at each level.
Feats:
You gain a bonus Feat every level that you would normally not gain one, thus making it so that you have a feat/level.
Hit Points:
You roll your hit points and... WHO ARE WE KIDDING?! MAXIMUM HP PER LEVEL!!!
Starting Equipment:
Now, here's the thing: angels do not come strapped with loot. It's just a simple fact. They have very few pieces of equipment, so each piece is quite powerful. To reflect this, you gain TWO Legacy Items, listed under the Mythic rules. In addition, you have the powers of 150,000 GP in magic items as INNATE ABILITIES, MATCHING THE 'ITEMS' THAT YOU SELECT! To give an example, you could spend X amount of gold and get the corresponding Bracers of Armor +Y, which would function identically, but would be an innate power of yours, not some item. Or you could have abilities copying a Robe of Eyes or a Staff of the Magi. The options are pretty vast really. My only caveat is that items which are consumable be okay'd by me first.
Fiendish Powers:
All of the Fallen practically drip with power, though this reflects differently in each of them.
Each Fallen starts out with 21 points of Fiendish Power. Said Fiendish Power is spent on unique special abilities and special qualities.
While the list is not yet complete, I will give you a few examples. All fiendish powers from non-unique fiends from D&D 3.0 to Pathfinder that I have access to statblocks for have their abilities included on this list.
There are also corrupted versions of celestial powers to. To give an example of this, you can have the Dark Rebirth, which is basically an inverted version of the Star Archon's power, but instead of turning you into a lesser archon after the blast, it turns you into a bodiless specter of cold, shadowy death that can reform it's body after 1d6 days, during which time it loses access to Dark Rebirth. Dark Rebirth is on the highest end of the point spectrum, as it is obviously a super powerful ability. It will likely cost 10 whole points, which is the one of the highest of any Fiendish Power costs.
Said list of Fiendish Powers will be posted in the next few days, but I cannot guarantee when. If you are eager to get an idea of what is available, go to PFSRD and scroll through the Evil Outsiders and their abilities and look at the Good Outsiders and think of the ways those abilities can be twisted into darker versions.
Domain:
All Fallen get access to ONE Cleric Domain of their choice from the SRD. You may select a Subdomain, should you so wish. This domain reflects something that your Fallen had power over before their fall. You gain BOTH Domain Abilities and you gain all spells that a Cleric of your level could cast from said Domain as Spell-Like Abilities. You can use 1st level spells from this list 9/day, 2nd level spells 8/day, and so on and so forth. The saves are based on your level and the mental score of your choice, as opposed to class level + WIS.
Fallen Names:
While I hate dictating fluff, many angel and demon names will be used in this campaign, so please refrain from using real world angel and demon names. As Benighted Regent said, most angel names end with -el, the Babylonian suffix for light, so that would be a place to start coming up with a name from if you are going old school with naming conventions, you know?
Is there any information that I forgot to list? If so, please tell me and I will try my best to answer your question.
