Faerie Dragon

The Dragon's page

Organized Play Member. 1,549 posts (2,529 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 26 aliases.


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You wouldn't happen to have the Saga of Slumbering Tsar, would you? I've read of it on the internet, and I really want to play it.

Running a solo or duo game could be a good way to return to the boards after my long hiatus, and I happen to have the first two books of this - I could buy the rest as we go along.

You know, it's couth to put that in the title of the thread.

Pahlok wrote:
The Dragon wrote:
I remember back in 3.5e, where the only ones ever using the actual monk class were self-flagelants, or warriors looking for bonus feats without meeting the prerequisites. Improved Trip was a bigger deal back then.
It's tough not to cherry-pick a little. Thankfully, there's more to dipping Monk than just bonus feats.

Hey, I'm not judging. Just thinking back on fun times is all.

Pahlok wrote:
DM IRONlord wrote:

Tachi Kamai – Sylph Witch (White Haired)/Monk Unchained
A monk with no WIS bonus? Interesting...

It's a bit unorthodox, but it gets the job done. Stunning Fist is next to useless (especially in a gestalt world), and the Wisdom to AC bonus is nice, but not as useful as Dexterity for her. Her first and second levels will be Unchained Monk, and then she will be a Lore Warden/WHW from level 3 on. This will grant her essential and useful feats and abilities, such as Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Dodge, and Evasion.

Here's a short breakdown of her path to level 4, the point at which her abilities really start to "click".

** spoiler omitted **...

I remember back in 3.5e, where the only ones ever using the actual monk class were self-flagelants, or warriors looking for bonus feats without meeting the prerequisites. Improved Trip was a bigger deal back then.

Hmm. I don't suppose you'd let me use the pre-erreta version of the Aasimar Oracle Favored Class Bonus? It used to add +½ to your oracle level to one revelation, but now it only adds +1/6th.

Planning to do Sorcerer//Life Oracle. The upshot of allowing me to use the +½ FCB would be that I could use Channel to heal 2d6 at level 2, and gain another d6 at 5th and 6th level.

Essentially, the channel pattern becomes ||-||-||-... instead of |-|-|-|..., which is great, because it allows channel to be vaguely appropriate in-combat healing. If not, that's okay, but I'll probably go heavens or lunar mystery instead of life, then.

It looks to me like there's neither much arcane casting nor much divine casting planned, so making a problem solver that has both seems like it'd be cool.

I've been wanting to play Second Darkness for a while now - the whole idea of elves & drow interests me a lot.

Here's Nivathe.

Init +3, LLV, Perception +6
AC 16, T 13, FF 13, CMD 15
Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +0
Hp 11 (1d10+1)
Longbow +4, 1d8
Longsword +2, 1d8+1
CMB +2
Str 12, dex 17, con 10, int 16, wis 11, cha 8
BAB +1
Point Blank Shot
Pragmatic Activator, Looking for Work
Favored Enemy(Humans +2), Track +1, Wild Empathy +0
Elven Immunities, Envoy, Fey Thoughts(UMD & Acrobatics), Keen Senses, Low-Light Vision
Acrobatics +6, Climb +4, Knowledge (Nature)+7, Knowledge(Dungeoneering) +7, Perception +6, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +6, Survival +4, Use Magic Device +7
Gear: Clothes, Studded Leather Armor, Longbow, 20 Arrows, 10 Silver Arrows, 5 Cold Iron Arrows, Longsword, 48gp.

I built her on a 15 point buy & average gp, but would not at all mind either a large pool of points or rolling for stats.

Nivathe was once a ranger of her homeland, patrolling the borders and keeping out humans and others who'd enroach on their territory. She came across some loggers by chance, fell in love with one of them, and ended up revealing more about elven settlements, patrols, and general intelligence than was proper or wise.
While she was not cast out, exactly, the shame was still there, and she eventually left for human lands. She's settled down in Riddleport, where she works the odd mercenary and guardsman job. She's even done some straight up thuggery, hiring on as muscle for business men.

Nivathe is a washed up elf, living in a society that doesn't fit her well, yet unable, it seems, to return to her old one. She's come to the tournament to stake out the place - she heard the manager is looking for workers, and since she still has a little trouble picking up on the subleties of humans, she usually tries to stake out potential jobs beforehand.

While certainly beautiful, the principal impression one gets of Nivathe is that she's tired. Her gear shows sign of wear, but she's also obviously alert. Life might've dealt her a rough hand, but she's not one to break. At least not entirely.

Fizban the Mysterious wrote:

Well I am basing this guy on the wizard who gets everyone going on the quest and then dissapears for a while to do secret wizard stuff only to reappear just in time to save the group from the big bad indefeatable monster of doom.

Lucky for you guys I was off researching how to find the one thing that could beat the big bad indefeatable monster of doom...Ok He's totally Gandalf with some Alannon The druid from the shannara books tossed in for good measure and the dude from the Belgariad.

While I do admire your cliché-fu, I can't help but think that that concept would require you to not be present for a good bit of the game, which is probably not ideal.

I've an idea for a drow dual-wielding scimitars. I know it's not strictly within the premise of this game, but maybe you could make one exception to that 'cliché' thing?[/s]

Also, I'd love you forever if you picked me and ran expedition to the demonweb pits eventually.

Doubly interested in this now.

Honestly, I think at least some of it is just because gestalt high power games are hard to run, and burnout is real.

I guess there were one or two suspicious ones, but I don't think it's all the ones that vanished.

Amgir wrote:
Thank you Bane88, just a quick clarification ... I can still use Archtypes of each class, yes? Or do they count as Varient classes?

Oh yes, you can still use archetypes, and even variant classes. You just can't take the same class with two different archetype two times on the same level.

For example, a character can't be a Bloodrager[Primalist, Steelblood, Untouchable Rager] 1//Bloodrager[Spelleater] 1, even though that might be fun to play.

However, you absolutely can be a Rogue[Scout] 1//Fighter[Dragoon] 1

Sumutherguy wrote:
isdestroyer wrote:
TarkXT wrote:
Was considering writing a guide for this.

I would love to see a guide for this! The magus is my second favorite class (with paladin first) and I have wanted a magical, gun wielding, Outlaw Star like character for years now.

Anything I can do to make this guide happen, let me know!

That might work as a magus x/spell slinger wizard 1, though you will need rapid reload on top of other ranged feats. You get higher DCs on your spells too, so that's neat.

What's really cool about the DC thing is that the magus has everything else beat for getting a high bonus on his weapons - he can easily be running around with a +3 gun at level six, if he uses arcane pool. Which he should.

Nice. Creation rules?

I've wanted to run an eldritch archer magus for a while now. Is the Arcane Archer prestige class considered dual progression? Currently thinking something like Eldritch Archer Magus 17//Fighter 4/Wizard 3/Arcane Archer 10.

Archery still needs feats, you know how it is.

If you go unchained, I'd rely on flying kick instead of pummeling charge, and take Dragon Style as your style feat chain.

High strength is obviously good.

So.. You have a gunslinger and an investigator? I'll have to think on that one a little bit.

Ms. Pleiades wrote:
The Dragon wrote:

I really like the concept of kellid barbarians. Also, there's this picture, so I probably have to do a two-weapon fighting barbarian, now.

Not sure how to make that good, but I will, somehow. Unchained is an option, especially if I can convince the GM that I should get to use Chained rage powers. As for what goes on the other side of the gestalt... Bard, maybe?

You might want to look into the Savage Technologist archetype.

Yes, I know, but I feel like going Invulnerable Rager instead, I think.

Besides, ST does melee / ranged two-weapon fighting, which isn't really what I was looking for.

Thanks for the recommendation though.

I really like the concept of kellid barbarians. Also, there's this picture, so I probably have to do a two-weapon fighting barbarian, now.

Not sure how to make that good, but I will, somehow. Unchained is an option, especially if I can convince the GM that I should get to use Chained rage powers. As for what goes on the other side of the gestalt... Bard, maybe?

I could do lvl 1. It's an AP after all, those are meant to start off there.

It's also a bit of a problem that, at levels 1 through 3, or 1 through 5 for partial BAB, Dodge is straight up better. A lot of play goes on at those levels.

Why are people getting their panties in a bunch over this?

Free infite cantrips is already a thing. It's in the core rulebook, availible to half the classes. Seriously.

Vivisectionist alchemist or Investigator works for a witcher, I'd think. Go half-elf or half-orc for some non-sucky martial weapon proficiencies.

But honestly, if your concept isn't 'witcher' but 'Mage Hunter', I'd go Magus. One of my players in my RotRL campaign is making a magus with exactly this fluff, and it works great. Pick up the various anti-magic Magus arcana, and you can be quite effective. You really need magic to stand up to a spellcaster, is the sad truth. But then again, even the actual witcher relies more heavily on signs than anything else to fight mages, so you're not far off.

Aww. You guys have fun though.

Ring of ferocious action (3k)

Ring of Mind Shielding (8k)

Ring of Inner Fortitude (18k)
or Ring of Energy Shroud (19.5k)

Ring of Return (33.6k)

Ring of Freedom of Movement (40k)

Those should be in just about the right price ranges, for +1 through +4. +5 is a little iffy, in that the general purpose ones are either a good bit cheaper (FoM at 40k) or a lot more expensive.

Hey, just posting to say that, looking over my schedule again, I don't think I'll have time to participate in this. :(.

On the bright side, that means that there's an opening in one of the hotly desired tank slots, so that's good.

You guys have fun though!

Any tips on relevant favored terrains? I get to pick two, so a list of things that might be relevant would be cool.

If not, I guess I'll pick Jungle & Underground.

Zayne Iwatani wrote:
So is this first come first serve on the slots or is this a closed recruitment? Cause I have an idea for a four armed gunslinger/alchemist that is pretty badass. Gestalting the two just makes it so much cheesier.

Everytime I see that build, I can't help but wonder, don't you run out of bombs far too quickly?

Yeah, they're here.

Would Order of the Green be an appropriate order to have?

Benedict deBornezan wrote:
What's the starting gold? Iknow it's probably up there, but if so, I didn't see it

We don't have starting gold. We get to choose a bunch of gear, according to the rules in the op.

Take a look at where it says 'starting gear', and then keep in mind that rings & wondrous items aren't limited by CL - they're limited to an individual price of 10K gp each.

I'd like to call tank - Witcher Daring Champion archetype Cavalier//Magus.

Edit; here's the start of a sheet.

GM Miskatonic wrote:
@ The Dragon: Considering the higher level campaigns I've played in in the past you may have just saved the game before it began.

Well, that's good, right?

By the way, can we exchange one of our items for a slotless item?

What happens with spellbooks? Usually I spend a good chunk of my gold buying more spells known at character creation, but that doesn't seem applicable here.

GM Miskatonic wrote:

Damn, missed my edit window. So, here's the new Wondrous Item Limit:

No Wondrous Item or Ring can exceed 10,000gp in cost.

Aaand I ruined it for everyone. Yay me.

GM Miskatonic wrote:

Aura faint abjuration; CL 5th

Slot ring; Price 2,000 gp (+1), 8,000 gp (+2), 18,000 gp (+3), 32,000 gp (+4), 50,000 gp (+5); Weight —

Requirements Forge Ring, shield of faith, caster must be of a level at least three times higher than the bonus of the ring; Cost 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5)

Fair enough, the new restriction has been put in the creation rules. I intended the creator's caster level to be the limit. It's more accurate than the resultant level at determining the strength of an item in my opinion.

Okay. That's not the core of the issue though - what I'm getting at is that an entirely okay loadout might look like this:

Long-ass list of gear:
Helm of Teleportation - 73.5K
Headband of Seduction - 40K
Swordmaster's Blindfold - 80K
Amulet of Proof against detection & location - 35K
Wings of the Gargoyle - 72K
Mantle of Spell Resistance - 90K
Merform Belt - 32K
Slippers of the Triton - 56K

Bracelet of Second Chances - 15.75K
Gauntlets of Rust (Greater) - 34.5K

Ring of Telekinesis - 75K
Ring of Inner Fortitude (Greater) - 66K

For a total gear value of 669.75K before armor and weapons. Note that I didn't chose the most optimal gear in all cases - I just chose the most expensive CL 9 or below I could find. A more realistic estimate probably sits at around 400K gp. That's still like *9 wealth by level, though.

Also, stat enhancers start at minimum CL12, so we can't have them at all, which I think is a little weird.

If this is working as intended, well, like I said, not gonna argue. I just want to make sure that it is working as intended.

If it is, well, It'll certainly help shore up on traditionally struggling martials by letting them go ape with gear to make up for it.

Edit:Build-wise, I'm planning to go 'Tank' with a witcher Cavalier(Daring Champion archetype)//Magus.
Edit2: Do we roll hit points, or take average or something?

GM Miskatonic wrote:

Requirements Forge Ring, shield of faith, caster must be of a level at least three times higher than the bonus of the ring; Cost 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5)

Gotta be 15th level to make a +5.

Aye, but the rings, when bought, have caster level 5.

It says so at the top of the statblock.

CRB wrote:

Aura faint abjuration; CL 5th

Slot ring; Price 2,000 gp (+1), 8,000 gp (+2), 18,000 gp (+3), 32,000 gp (+4), 50,000 gp (+5); Weight —

Anyway, if It's working as intended, I'm not going to argue. It just seems like a lot of stuff. At this rate, I'll wind up with gear worth at least two hundred thousand gp when I'm done. Maybe a little more or less.

Looks nice. I can't help but think that you might want to tie the magic items we can pick to a gold limit, instead of caster level.

Caster level is a pretty poor predictor of item power/value, after all. For example, Ring of Telekinesis, Inner Fortitude(Greater), Spell Storing, & Protection (+5) are all at or below caster level 9, and are all individually worth more than the entire suggested wbl at level 9.

Meanwhile, Ring of Wizardry I is CL 11.

This is fairly inconsistent, and could be fixed by saying something like "Individual magic items can't be worth more than 20K", or something like that.

Looks fairly interesting. The mention of witcher has me wanting to do a Swashbuckler or Daring Champion Cavalier//Magus.

Given that Swashbuckler is banned, I'd probably go for the cavalier version. The idea would be str-focused, but with Slashing Grace(Longsword or Bastard Sword).

I think it could wind up being pretty cool.

I think the main problem with kobolds is there's always more kobolds to be had. Sort of like rats, really.

The biggest problem with grapple isn't that they're strong, weak, or any other adjective to do with balance.

It's that they're f@!&ing hard to make sense of.

Garidan Layafette wrote:
Maybe reptilian favored enemies lizardfolk, kobold....Wait not that last one,

So Humanoid(reptillian)? I might go with that one. It's just a bit nerve-wracking, it might never come up.

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Careful, SAO II will make you really sad at one point. It's an awesome anime.

Feats: I've spent some time thinking on it and have come to a decision regarding bonus feats that come from classes.

If a class gives a specific feat, such as Lore Warden's Combat Expertise, then you must choose a path to take when you gain that feat.

If a class does not give a specific feat, like fighter's bonus feats, or gives a choice like the monk, then they do not get the path benefits(a monk that picks Dodge as a bonus feat does not gain Mobility or Spring Attack). This applies to temporary feats, like those gained from a Brawler's martial versatility.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. It makes my plans for a badass dwarven fighter sad, but it makes sense.

Since it's going to be a lot less good than I thought it would, would you consider handing out advice for good favored enemies? I get that dragon will probably be thematic, but maybe it should be picked up at fifth level instead of 1st?

Could you explain the feat trees thing more?

Axolotl wrote:
And tieflings can't wear full armor because of their tails, too? In this case RAW would be ridiculous.

It doesn't even end there - have you seen the ears on the official elf art? By all accounts, elves should be getting horrible cases of 'helm-ears', if they walked around in human helmets. I know my ears can get a little achy if I wear headphones for too long, what do you think would happen to those things? Or dwarven helmets for that matter, which will fit them by virtue of both races being medium.

I think you might be able to argue that feat & trait increases to caster level with specific spells in the staff (i.e. Spell Specialization & Gifted Adept) will file under 'can use his caster level', but we're definitely interpreting here.

Personally, I houserule that it counts as if you had actually cast it when you use a staff, but that's just so it's easier to remember and gives me less headaches.

Also, people are able to do it on instinct, with blindfold on. Go watch mythbusters, they have something on this.

Maybe if you panic real hard, you might be a little confused. Maybe. Regardless, it's probably not a 'skill' in the sense that you get better at it by having training, so survival wouldn't apply here. An (easy) will save where fear bonuses apply, maybe. That's a nice way to make the fighter feel good about his Bravery class feature too, so that's good.

It's certainly nowhere near the dc 25 that campingcarl set as the upper boundary.

Quantum Steve wrote:
Azten wrote:

Not exactly true, since Pathfinder is compatible with 3.X.

1. Compatible Rule Sets != Congruous Rule Sets

2. 3.5 Gestalt was not created with Pathfinder Hybrid classes in mind. Pathfinder Hybrid Classes were not created with 3.5 Gestalt in mind.

3. The only thing "legal" at your table is what your GM allows. The only thing "illegal" at your table is what your GM doesn't allow (society games notwithstanding).

Do with that what you will

Yeah, yeah, you just keep splitting those hairs over there.

Anyway, traditionally, if you get the same thing twice on the same level, you have to ditch one of them. Personally, I'd consider the two quite different - warpriest allows you to treat these feats in particular as if you had full BAB, so I'd say you get both, the same way a Fighter//Psionic Warrior got both of his feat sets in 3.5e.

However, a swashbuckler//Fighter would only gain feats according to the Fighter schedule, since both bonus feat abilities function the same way, albeit at different rates. This is the same logic by which a fighter//feat rogue only got one of his sets of feats.

Isn't helpful to what? I've found that wish, teleportation circle, create demiplane and the like are fantastic tools for when you want to make lasting, monumental changes to the environment, and society at large.

Is that a lot of narrative (actually, scratch that, this goes way beyond narrative, don't know what to call it now) control to hand over to the players? Yep. But if they agreed to play at these levels, they agreed to take responsibility for that.

I mean, balance in pathfinder is a joke. The only somewhat useful yardstick you can use is if people are having fun. Mechanically, 'fun' often equates to options, so as long as the people who aren't full casters still have relevant things to do, I really don't see the inherent problems in the 9's 'breaking' the setting. It's there for them to play with, after all.

I do agree that high-level casters shouldn't exist in the same world as low-level characters, in the same manner that parties always just so happen to be surrounded by level-appropriate monsters.

But still Golarion isn't made for high-level characters, so maybe it's for the best that they take off for the Abyss, or whatever? The only high-level casters sticking around on Golarion are those who're stuck (I.e. big final bosses for at least two APs I know of) or those who want to play around with being a big fish in a small pond.

Rynjin wrote:

I can't improve my Wis further without dropping my Dex. Maneuvers still need to hit to work.

Aurora Break is fire damage. We are likely going to be fighting a lot of Fiends. Not something to rely on.

I do have Undead and Evil Outsider Bane, but that still seems a mite low.

I largely selected Maneuvers that inflict status effects since I decided not to delve into Weapon Group Adaptation/Broken Blade cheese but maybe I should rethink that?

Suppose I could drop the Judge archetype and get Deadly Strike back.

Again, Murderous Insight is good for you here. You'll very likely get more accuracy from dropping dex by 8, and putting the resulting overage into wisdom.

N. Jolly wrote:
LazarX wrote:
swoosh wrote:

Full casters tend to get ridiculous abilities, especially endgame.

Martial characters tend to struggle figuring out what they're supposed to do when they can't walk up and punch something.

People keep saying that with some kind of mantra.. Maybe that's true for the bad GMs that gave them that impression... or maybe the player who can't imagine doing anything that's not from an optimizer's mechanic.

But it's not the universal truth they think it is. It's true where GM's give the nod to caster players, and are simply not strict with magic. Or haven't realised that you build your campaign to your players. I've played the gamut from non-casters to 4th, 6th, and 9th. The thing is ... no matter what you play, the key is to make your own fun.

Isn't admitting that you have to change the way the game is played or however you're 'more strict with magic' to make things fair? Also you're calling everyone who has problems with this a bad GM instead of possibly assuming that MAYBE there's a problem with the game.

As for 'building your campaign for your players', a lot of people use APs, and doing that isn't really feasible, so yeah, maybe in the way you run games with players who aren't using the rules the way others are, it's fine for you. But you have this needless air of superiority to how you play the game that's not helpful in conversations like this and painfully antagonistic towards people who play the game differently from you that you seem to bring into all conversations on the subject.

This thread was meant to talk about what the game does best, not to bash others for having problems with a game that most will admit isn't perfect, and I agree that the 6th level casters are a bright spot in design that I myself greatly admire. Keeping new designs around this level would be great, and personally I'd love to eventually see 9th level casters phased out.

That last bit I can't agree with, at all.

High-level D&D is bending the universe and doing horrendously overpowered things to the horrendously over the top villains - the only thing that's wrong with this picture is that the rogue and the fighter doesn't get to join in on the funsies.

Low-level d&d logic shouldn't be extended into high-level d&d adventures. Rather, the classes who aren't given the tools to participate should be phased out, in favor of like classes who can, such as the 6th level characters.

Honestly, if you want to stick around at the lower levels of play, E6 is a wonderful system which sits right there. It's my goto when I don't want to deal with the glorious insanity that is high-level d&d. With some optimization, and a slightly bigger party than is standard, you can run encounters at CRs all the way up to at least 13, which is plenty for telling whatever story you want.

The concept isn't all that new - PFS itself effectively runs E12, for example, although they haven't got an advancement system in place for post-12th.

Talathel Wyndle wrote:
Still a few final touches to tweak, but here's my character. Rakshasa spawn sorcerer (and wannabe bard) Talathel Wyndle. After being raised by elves, the Calistria-worshipping demonspawn finds himself heading for the big stage of Sandpoint.


A couple issues though. Rakshasa-bloodline isn't actually either the of the fiendish or abyssal bloodlines - which is what Fiendish Sorcery requires. Also, the penalty from your Bloodline Arcana is -0(not a typo, it's equal to ½*sorc lvl) at first level.

Melkiador wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

With Fighter, you will eventually lose all effectiveness.

Consider Barbarian.

This is largely overstated. A well built fighter does about as well as a Barbarian for damage. The Barbarian's only real advantage is the potential to pounce. The Fighter's overall issue is from its lack of out of combat usefulness.

He does a little (not much, but just a little) worse for to hit & damage. A well built barbarian has better AC, though. Also, more skills and HP, which is nice.

Overall, barbarian is quite a bit better, but not enough that you go 'Oh, crap, he's taking up xp with his high-level fighter'. At least, not any more than one would think if they swapped in a high-level barbarian for said fighter.

But high levels aren't really the concern here - low level play is. And at 1st level, +7 to hit/1d10+5 damage is an unlimited use, ~50% chance to kill whatever you point it at, which is awesome.

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