Talgeron's page

Yeah, I'd be okay with something like that. I also dislike the low-level grind, but it's necessary if you're a pretty new player, just because everything builds on each other. I'm not married to any particular idea. I just don't want a free-for-all.

I'd be okay with buying the ability to start higher with achievement points, even because you have to run or play Pathfinder to get them. I routinely start off my characters at higher levels because of GM chronicles. For a ton of folks, that wouldn't be an issue. But for a public game day, that's where you'll have problems. It's the brand new player who wants to try the cool blog build or someone who's trying "basically 5e" for the first time that worries me. The only way I can see to screen for "I have a solid understanding of the rules of the game" is making it achievement point gated. Even then, you'll have issues, just not as many, I don't think.

The day you can freely create PFS characters at any level is the day I stop running PFS. Full-stop. I don't want to be responsible for running games, especially games on a timetable, when people may not have a clue how their characters work. That solution would solve the two level band, but it's not one I am willing to run for. I honestly don't even want to play on tables where someone sits down with a level 7 build they found on YouTube and want to test drive. To me, that's a solution worse than the problem. I don't think it's a big deal in Starfinder right now because there's only one level band, but my experience running the high level play test stuff was agonizing. Nobody had a clue how anything worked. That's fine for a play test, but if that becomes the new norm, I'm out. I've run about 200 pf1e games and about 75 pf2e games, just to establish my experience level. I'm not saying I know more than anyone else, I'm just saying that's where my hard line is.

I just wrapped up a convention and wanted to share some feedback on how the recent changes are playing out in practice.

For context, our SFS2 tables fired at about a 50% rate, while PFS2 tables fired closer to 80%. My primary SFS2 organizer expressed concerns about the scenario length. The only SFS2 game he was able to sit down for ended in two hours, and he left feeling disappointed. His worry—and mine—is how these shortened scenarios will function at conventions. Locally, SFS has been functionally dead at game days for a long time; it only survives at conventions. If scenarios are too short, SFS will either have to be scheduled on an entirely separate timetable from PFS, or else leave long, awkward gaps between sessions.

PFS2 brings its own complications, with scenarios falling partly into the old slot lengths and partly into the new ones. That combination is already shaping up to be a scheduling nightmare. To be clear, I haven’t yet run the newest PFS scenarios myself, but I have already seen negative feedback from the first public runs of SFS2 in my area.

For me personally, the value of Organized Play lies in conventions—meeting new people, seeing wildly varied parties, and facing the unique challenges of mixed-level tables. I run weekly local game days not because I want a fixed, home-game style group, but to build momentum for conventions. The current changes feel designed for weeknight game days at the expense of convention play, and I’m worried Paizo is going to have to decide which format it truly wants to support.

Walk-ups are another major factor. I had many first-time PFS players this weekend. Because of the broader level bands, I was able to shuffle tables and make sure they all got seated. With two-level bands, that flexibility disappears. For this event I scheduled four PFS2 tables and one SFS2 table per slot across a standard seven-slot convention, each slot at four hours. That doesn’t leave much room for maneuvering. I had exactly two Tier 7–10 scenarios scheduled, and both fired: one table with characters at levels 7, 8, 8, and 9; the other with 7, 7, 8, and 9. Under the new system, neither of those tables would have been legal.

Even before PFS2 officially shifts to the new model, organizers are already reacting. One of my coordinators has chosen not to schedule an upcoming Season 7 scenario (Tier 1–4) because by the time Part 2 arrives, it will effectively have been shortened into a much narrower Tier 3–4 experience. That’s discouraging to see before the changes even fully take effect.

Finally, on the volunteer side, the changes to stat block inclusion are also concerning. This weekend I had to ask a GM to step in on just a day’s notice. Because the scenario was a Season 6 Tier 1–4 with stat blocks included, it worked out. Without those included resources, it would have been a much heavier lift to expect them to go print everything and prep it overnight. As I often say as a long-time volunteer for Paizo and other organizations: every barrier to volunteering, no matter how small, reduces the number of people willing to do it.

I’ve been encouraging everyone who shared these frustrations with me to come here and voice their feedback directly. I can share my perspective, but real pushback needs to come from the wider community. My concern is that Paizo may be hearing mostly from the most engaged fans—the ones who are already posting here or filling out surveys. Meanwhile, the convention organizers, store owners, and casual players who are unhappy often don’t bother to say anything—they just quietly stop showing up.

That’s what worries me the most.

Cyrad wrote:

I always appreciated having the full stat blocks of monsters in the back of each PFS scenario. I'm pretty upset that's going away.

Not having to flip between bookmarks for each monster was such a godsend, especially for multi-table specials.

I am not upset by this, but I am pretty darn disappointed. In 1e, a lot of venture-officers pushed hard to get all stat blocks included. This made prepping scenarios a LOT easier and take less time. But, I guess neither of those factors and how they will impact GMs were at all taken into consideration.

It’s almost enough, but not quite, for me to cancel my society subscriptions and stop GMing society play altogether.

I remember when that happened, Mark. It was widely celebrated.

Hardcover APs. As someone who has been subscribing on and off since Dungeon Magazine. I'm looking forward to this change. It is better for shipping costs, environment as well as the shelf space. I like the fact that everything is all in one book versus needing to pull out multiple books when I'm trying to prep either forward looking or reverse looking. Huzzah!

I'm probably cancelling my subscription for the AP line. The main reason I was subscribing is to one, not miss a volume, and two, get something in the mail once a month that wasn't junk or a bill. I'll probably just switch to buying them as they hit the shelf of my flgs. It'll be cheaper anyway. So this a good change for me, but I wonder if it's an intended consequence.

My biggest concern with the narrower level bands: you level out of it so quickly, it can be difficult to figure out which scenarios to schedule for in-person venues.

Case in point: We offer 2 tables every Society night. We have several level 5-6 characters who want to play the new 5-6 adventure...what do we do for the other table? If some players have a level 7 and some have a level 4...they both have to suffer and just make first-level characters to even be able to play? Or somebody can't play at all? Or they have to use pregens?

I'm hoping this isn't how it'll work out in practice, and it's possible that the changes are reflecting the massive shift in how Society is being done these days (I get the feeling in-person non-convention games are fading), maybe this will better serve that new format.

But for how our program current operates, it's making me sweat a bit.

That's my fear, as well. Scheduling. No question it's easier to prep. But what good is prepping a game that doesn't have enough players?

Also, are in-person non-convention games on the decline? I hadn't thought about that, and I only have my area to go off of, but is that other folks' experience?

Average people do not become adventurers. I am an average person in real life. I want to play a character of someone who is exceptional. That is why my fighters have at least a 17 strength and my wizards have at least an 18 intelligence. They are exceptional, and bored with the mundane nature of life in a village, and have become adventurers as a result. If my fighter had a 13 strength and a 12 charisma, he'd probably still be a farmer. It's safer that way. If my wizard had a 14 intelligence and a 7 constitution, he'd probably be a librarian. I figure my less powerfully built characters died to a single goblin attacking them on the road to the Grand Lodge, and that's why they don't go on Pathfinder Society missions.

Congratulations, man! It's a long road!

My wife got mine, anyway, Mark. GenCon boon, SchmenCon boon.

I have nothing but good feedback for this Gen Con.
I GMed 7 slots, and had 6 wonderful tables, and one average table. For those of you who GM at cons, you know that these numbers are phenomenal.

General:
I got a chance to try the Goblin Attacks missions just before the final slot ended on Sunday. The GM I had for that, D'Artagnan, (yes, I had to wikipedia Three Musketeers to figure out how to spell it), showed far more enthusiasm than we had any right to expect at 12:00 on Sunday. I appreciated it. The quests themselves were great fun, but highly dependent upon having an enthusiastic GM. Good job getting the right folks for the job, as far as I could tell.

For headquarters:
The preassigned tables were a huge lifesaver. Not having to move between slots was also deeply appreciated. The laminated pregens in a booklet I think saved a ton of table time, too, as I could just had a new player a book of the appropriate level and say, "I've put the world at your fingertips. Pick your poison!" Seriously, you guys were amazing, for my money.

For the other GMs:
I seriously heard a GM beside me get applause as he was handing out chronicle sheets. I dunno what went on at that table, but kudos!

For the players:
Almost every player at my tables took the time to shake my hand and thank me for a good experience, and that means a lot, especially when you're tired and your voice is starting to go. It made this Gen Con a truly amazing experience for me, and sent me back home refreshed and revitalized, and newly in love with our shared hobby. Thank you for a great Gen Con.

Channeling in combat changes the math. It allows that fighter to survive one more full round and kill the BBEG. With Channel Revival, it saves the party the cost of a raise dead. It reverses the effects of the fireball that just landed on you. I think it's worth it, if you're gonna invest in the phylactery of positive channeling. You get the ioun stones for wisdom and charisma and the phylactery for channeling, and you can really make a difference. I know in high level play, there's some stuff that's just unbeatable without a cleric or life oracle along to change the math in your favor.

I agree that the Expanded Narrative boon doesn't seem to be causing any problems in my area. My wife has used hers to replay scenarios, either because she had a bad experience with them or because she realized after playing that a different character would've been a perfect fit. (Not for boons or anything, just because the character's background fit the scenario very well.) Personally, I've only replayed one scenario, and that was to help make a table. I plan to use stars to replay the bonekeep series with a table who actually knows what bonekeep is and is prepared for it. (Played Bonekeep 1 with a pregen and an 8 year old. Played BK 2 with a 9 year old.) I'll probably eventually use my expanded narrative boon, but TBH, for myself, play opportunities are so slim I hate to waste them on scenarios I've already played.

Again, just my take on it. I might use my stars at some point to replay Eyes of the Ten in a couple of years, when the memory of it is not so fresh, if only because that was the best series I've ever played.

Thank you for your service.

I do the same thing when I'm playing, whether it's me or another player. I'm fond of saying stuff like, "I move to this square, provoking from this guy and this guy."

As one of my players likes to state, "It's everyone's responsibility to maintain game state." And I can't argue that. To be fair, he's something of a rules lawyer, but I can't complain when he argues against himself as often as for the party. At least I never feel like he's trying to slip something by me.

I find the third time running something for me is the sweet spot. I've got all weird mechanics figured out completely, I know where the players are likely to go off rails, I know exactly how to get them focused again, I've got unique voices for each NPC, and my roleplaying has more depth. But I haven't completely memorized all the stat blocks yet, and I can still be surprised when the players do something unexpected.

On topic, I'm bleeding for GMs locally. My area continues to grow, and I just don't have the GMs to back it up. I've got about 8 regular GMs, and we run 6-7 tables per week. That means that some GMs are running two tables a week, and playing every third or fourth week. I'll be honest, I'm just not sure what to do about it. I make it as easy for the GMs as possible by handling reporting, providing chronicle sheets and loaner copies of scenarios, maps when available, etc, but there's not much else I can do.

I'm interested in all suggestions.

Pathfinder Explorer
Pathfinder Agent
Decemvirate Member
Those are the ones I really wanna see in prepainted plastic.

I agree with Nefreet's original post.

If I want to participate in a story with no consequences for failure, I'll just read a book. I prefer my skill (or lack of skill) to matter in my success level. Otherwise, I have no reason to improve. I also believe that the dice should matter. Otherwise, why roll them at all? I believe that without the ever-present fear of death, victory ceases to have the savor. There's nothing better than dropping the big bad knowing your fighter can't eat another full round, or waiting with baited breath as the die slowly stops spinning to land on that 2 for the bad guy's saving throw, and knowing that it could've gone either way. And there's nothing like GMing a table that's on the cusp of utter defeat when someone pulls out just the right scroll or has the right spell prepped, or makes the right call and jukes left when his instincts should be telling him to dodge right and pulls out a win. The players are excited, everyone's blood is pumping, and you get to share in the celebration.

And sometimes, there's nothing like a crushing defeat to remind you how far you still have to come. We had what we thought was a perfect table for Waking Rune in hard mode, and by the end, it wasn't about winning, it was how many body retrievals we were gonna have to pay for. Died like a boss when my superstitious barbarian/fighter failed 2 fort saves in a row. That's not supposed to happen. But that's why we roll dice, folks. Sometimes, the good guys lose. And it was one of the best gaming experiences I've had. We had a phenomenal GM and great players, and I wouldn't change a moment of it.

I've been fireballed twice, and both times it saved my character. I'll just leave it at that.

I built a Dr. Who clone bard that I regret making. He's good on knowledge and diplomacy, but in combat, he's pretty boring. He just entangles things and gives bonuses to everyone else. By the time he got good enough with dazzling display, the shaken condition doesn't matter enough to be worth a full round action. At the level he's at now, the bad guys hit on a 5 instead of a 3 when he demoralizes. He's mostly GM credit, so I didn't realize how boring he would be to play until after he hit level 8.

Also, Eyes of the Ten twice without burning four stars. How 'bout that?

I'm not worried about players not buying books. I think Core is gonna appeal to two types: the ones who have already played almost everything (and already have all the books), and the ones who are just getting started and will view Core as sort of a "bootcamp" to prepare for the greater campaign. Just my two cents.

Season 7 set entirely in Galt. That's what I want to see.

I would rule this under the heading of "alignment infractions," which is detailed very strongly in the guide to organized play.

Alignment infractions are a touchy subject. Ultimately, the GM is the final authority at the table, but she must warn any player whose character is deviating from his chosen alignment. This warning must be clear, and the GM must make sure that the player understands the warning and the actions that initiated the warning. The PC should be given the opportunity to correct the behavior, justify it, or face the consequences. We believe a deity would forgive a one-time bad choice as long as the action wasn’t too egregious (such as burning down an orphanage full of children, killing a peasant for no good reason but sport, etc.). Hence, the GM can issue a warning to the player through a “feeling” he receives from his deity, a vision he is given, his conscience talking to him, or some other similar roleplaying event.

If infractions continue in the course of the scenario or sanctioned module or adventure path, an alignment change may be in order. If the GM deems these continued actions warrant an alignment change, she should note it on the character’s Chronicle sheet at the end of the session in the Conditions Gained box. The character may remove this gained condition through an atonement spell. If the condition is removed, the GM should also note it on the Chronicle sheet.

According to the GTOP, PCs are supposed to be given the opportunity to justify the behavior. Such as "hey, my god doesn't want me to let innocents be slaughtered without trial." It's not the GM's job to punish someone for playing a particular class in a particular scenario. It's our job to run the scenario to the best of our ability. And even if you do decide that accepting the mission requires a paladin to fall, you're required to give them an in character warning that his or her actions could cause him or her to fall.

And FYI, if I were a paladin on that table who fell, I would feel cheated. Paladins are allowed to cooperate with even evil companions if it serves the greater good, much less lead refugees into freedom. Remember that there are a lot of ways to roleplay lawful good, not only your own interpretation.

If other players refuse to play with this individual, then he is actively harming the community. It could be because of his legal character build, or his also legal body odor and bad manners. Ultimately, it's up the organizer to handle problems such as this, preferably delicately. As a GM, you are never obligated to run a table. If you are ALSO the organizer, then it's up to you to do what's best for your community. If you're not, then kick the problem upstairs and make that guy make the tough call. That's why we make the big bucks.

I would give a lot to see Venture Lieutenant Kyle Baird... I saw his fluffy side running newbies through The Confirmation... It was like watching a wolf gently scratch a new born lamb. And the lambs had no idea of their danger...

I would like to be the first to congratulate our own Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome, or henceforth, Thea Peters, in becoming Venture Lieutenant for Murfreesboro, TN. I know this announcement will please those of us who, like myself, found her presence to be an intelligent and moderating presence on the boards. I know that she will do just as much for the Tennessee community as she has for the PFS community at large.

Thanks,

Nick Greene
Knoxville VC

Getting to meet a bunch of the Paizo staff.

Being able to thank Sara Marie in person for all her hard work with customer service.

Meeting a bunch of people I'd only talked to on the forums.

Running the Confirmation twice for brand new players.

Watching Garble eat most of Bonekeep 3.

And autographs!!!

I agree. After the CRB and the APG, the Inner Sea World a Guide is my favorite, followed by Ultimate Equipment.

Put me in the column of people who wouldn't have noticed.
But I do find the comments pretty funny.

While I've been guilty of softballing a bit in 1-2s and 1-5s, I have my own way of running fights, as does every gm out there. The most important thing we can do for our community, however, is to support each other as GMs. Ultimately, the guy in the seat makes a call. Even when it's not the best call, we have to remember that without him/her volunteering, there would have been no call to make.

Personally, I would have just run as written and let the chips fall where they may. However, you made a by-the-seat-of-your-pants call, and who are we to say you were wrong?

Congrats on passing one of the most difficult hurdles as a gm: what to do when the party is completely unprepared for the fight. You'll get smoother with whatever your chosen gm style is with practice.

TLDR: don't sweat it. We've all been there.

We had tornadoes touching down all around us last night, but we finished Year of the Shadow Lodge. Everyone's phone alerted at the exact same time warning us. But we were only halfway through. Nobody left. YMMV.

I just read the stat blocks for the encounter it must have been, and in the stat block, it specifically says that the BG in question is "overwhelmed by her urge to kill." With that in the stat block, I can definitely see why using minions to CDG would be considered a valid tactic, especially when she just put you to sleep.

That being said, obviously the CDG was somewhat bungled, and the second attempt shouldn't have worked. I don't think this was malicious or even wrong tactics, I believe it was a simple rule mistake. As such, it should be addressed.

However, we must be careful overturning GM calls at the table, especially after the fact. If we treat our GM community as though they are subject to constant scrutiny and are not trusted, eventually, we will run out of GMs. That's a tactic we must be diplomatic and sparing with utilizing. Personally, I've been killed a couple of times by GMs making mistakes and either illegally playing up, or forgetting to utilize the 4 player adjustment, and once, by misreading the amount of DR something has. Regrettably, it happens. And I don't think any one of us have ever run a completely perfect table.

I feel like I should close with something about glass houses and stones. I dunno.

I'd be okay with that scenario. As long as Paizo continues to reward our convention volunteers. As an organizer, it can be tough to fill all the gm slots, especially when trying to line up a special or something else equally popular.