Sysryke's page

I'm normally very Cthulhu adverse, but in this case, if you have the time and will to do a right-up, I'd love to see what you came up with and how it all played out.

In the absolutely broadest strokes, assuming a caster has been built to focus/specialize in combat, then an offensive caster chucking their high and mid-range spells at every combat is going to be responsible for keeping combats to the 1 to 2 rounds range (3 maybe for the mids).

In this scenario, you expect your caster to either AoE wipe a bunch of minions, put out some kind of powerful crowd/terrain control effect, and/or neutralize/gimp the main baddy. Whatever is left is for the martials and ranged types to clean up, or dog-pile on.

But, to Melkiador's point, there are way to many variables. This assumes the hypothetically near perfect built caster who has access to an appropriate combat spell for every conceivable permutation of encounter. I find that in play, these builds are pretty rare. Also, if by "offensive" casting you mean hit point damage, then the contribution goes down unless dealing with swarms, bands of baddies, or enemies the rest of the party can't hit.

I'm sure there are some non-polymorphing, non-weapon enchanting, pure magic/energy/spell damage builds that can try and compete in the DPR Olympics, but they're exceedingly rare at the tables I've played at.

Howdy Lonestar Sam! I've been to your country a few times. Good fun, but I'm pretty happy here in Missouri:p

I was born in 88. So, some luck for both of us there.

BTW - grognard is not complimentary. LoL. When M. Mearls talked about "grognard capture" it was also not complimentary. IMO their attitude is making L. Williams look good.

To put it simply; AD&D was rough, at times random, and much was left to the GM. PF1 is a simplified easier 3.5. So overall from a simple game perspective it is better now.

I just have Swedish and German relatives and a few Norwegian friends, so I hear the jokes.
translation of das Nunstück

Sorry. I was introduced to the term as mostly a designator/honorific for gamers who'd played original D&D. No curmudgeon implications intended.

Sysryke wrote:

Howdy again Oli *waves*

*waves two hands excitedly secretly afraid you waved to someone behind me!*

das-Nunstück was a secret phrase developed by the Ministry of Monty Python to combat the forces of evil!

You are warned.

That is beautiful! I was raised with Monty Python, but mostly just Holy Grail and a record of Live at City Center. That bit is new to me.

Oops! You're right if course. It was just the accent my brain gave to Oli's post.

Silly thing is, I think those words were probably German, but I know nothing :p

On the rest of your post, cool name, respect for a definite Grognard, and even though I don't drink, Dionysus has always been one of my favorite Olympians. :)

Not many people alive nowadays know that meister is short for Wenn-ist-das-Nunstück-git-und-Slotermeyer-ja-Beiherhund-das -Oder-die-Flipperwaldt-gersput-meister.

Howdy again Oli *waves*

Did you just remind us of/accost us with the Swedish Chef!? :p

:p

Yay! Thanks for sharing:)

I'm dusting off another old thread. If you care to share, tell us a bit about who you are on our screens.

I'm also a little confused as to what your question or point is.

From the title, I can't tell if you're lamenting that meta-gaming is becoming more common, trying to normalize meta-gaming, or looking for a way to integrate meta-gaming into "better" more organic or story driven games. Can you clarify your prompt a bit?

I don't want to massively derail here, but could you all expand just a little on the problems of D&D 5.5? What do you mean by "lowest common denominator"? Is 5.5 the same as the rather poorly named D&D One I've been hearing about?

Some of my clients occasionally talk about current D&D as new participants in the hobby, and my 3.x/4e knowledge is becoming less useful when I'm trying to help encourage new players.

Depending on rage powers, I think a lot of Barbarians will do just fine.

Any Bard or Skald with ranks in any non-instrument Perform skill should do okay, as well as most of the other spontaneous casters.

Any druid who hasn't sacrificed wild shape has at least a shot after 4th level.

As already said, Monks, Brawlers, and Shifters shine in this scenario.

I feel like the ability to improvise or craft gear out of your surroundings shouldn't be entirely dismissed, so clever martials and skill monkeys who can McGyver stuff shouldn't be counted out. I'm not talking about stealing gear from jailers/enemies, but more turning a chair leg, the nails in your bed box, and strips of blanket into a makeshift spike club. Or something more clever. So, Fighters, Rangers, Rogues, Ninjas, Investigators, not to be counted out.

Summoners, Shamans, and Witches can all bring something to the table, even if stripped bare. Inquisitors can also still use judgements and spells, which might be enough to get the job done.

Really, it seems like the list is shorter for those who are completely screwed. Obviously spell selection and feat/feature choices will make individual builds more or less vulnerable here, but it feels like only the item specific classes are left out. Occultist has been mentioned. A naked vigilante is effectively half or less of their character. Alchemists, Gunslingers, and weapon/armor focused builds are all worse off.

. . . . .
Without going overly pervy, this now makes me wonder what the composition of an adventuring troupe from a nudist colony would be????

I play several non-D&D games, but if I’m playing a D&D-esque one it will be PF1.

......

I’m pretty sure the people you first play with have the biggest impact on whether you enjoy a game system.

Sing Sweet Wisdom! Truer words were never spoken.

I know I'm a decade late to the party, but I recently started watching Critical Role. I'm well aware that the whole group is all professional actors, and not all games will, can, or should be what theirs is. That said I do love the storytelling aspect of this game, and so far it looks like they all do it well. One component that the CR group includes is romance, and I'm in a musing/wondering kind of mood.

So, aside from the boring/useless/non-constructive answer of "Just don't!", I'd like to know how different folks have successfully incorporated romance for their characters. I think with long running campaigns, when this is well done, it makes for richer more believable characters and more layered stories.

That said, I've never really managed this with any characters I've played. The few times I've had a character in a relationship it's been in back story, transition scenes, or prologues, never during actual gameplay. It's not something I usually think to think about or act on for my characters, but if I stop to think about it, I don't really think that any (maybe 1 or 2) of my characters are asexual/aromantic.

So, how do you go about developing intimate character relationships? And, to be clear, I don't mean exclusively or even primarily sex. The act can be implied, but I'm not looking to be graphic. I'm all for the classic Hollywood soulful gaze, embrace, flare the fireplace, flutter the curtains, and fade to black. I'm much more interested in how to build, act, and convey the thoughts, deeds, and feelings that create those relationships.

That all makes a lot of sense. I literally never saw, read, or heard any advertisements for 4e. My initial exposure was thumbing through the books in Barnes and Noble, and then my first store game a year or so later. I came in fresh with no preconceived notions one way or the other.

Sysryke wrote:

4e is definitely not the best system, but I'll never agree with the hate some folks throw at it.

A lot of the hostility to D&D 4e has little to do with the system itself.

1 - In the minds of many, D&D 4e came out too early - well before D&D 3.5 had run its course. I offer the popularity of Pathfinder 1e as evidence of this.
2 - Some of the actions of WotC to try to force the new system on the community did not engender good will. Hasbro/WotC has a general problem with the way the interact with the RPG Community.

I definitely agree with the first point. I never have been involved enough in pop-culture or social media to have been aware of the second part, but it makes sense.

Swinging back by the threads, and once again finding myself at the kids table :p Only 37 here.

My first exposure to D&D was pouring through the original 1st ed. Monster Manual in my uncle's room at my grandparents house when I was 3 or 4. I probably read that book hundreds of times, and creatures have always been my favorite part of any system.

My mom got me a 2nd edition starter set when I was 10 or so, but this was right before 3rd edition came out, and I never had anyone to play with. I just collected and poured through 3e books in junior high and highschool, but still couldn't find a group.

For better or worse the first game I actually got to play in was a 4e game in my Friendly Local Game Shop. I was blessed to find a good GM and welcoming tablemates. 4e wasn't as good as what I'd read of 3rd edition, but that DM taught me that "the roleplaying is what you bring to the game" and I have many happy memories. 4e mechanics were definitely beginner friendly, and while I'd grown up reading books set in Faerun, I didn't hate the new lore, it was just new. 4e is definitely not the best system, but I'll never agree with the hate some folks throw at it.

Eventually though, I got invited to join home games set in 3.5. The history and splat of the older system offered greater customization which I've always enjoyed. Around that time, some of my fellow players were getting into Pathfinder, and the conversion was a natural step.

Eventually I settled in with a core crew, some from my 4e days, others who I met through conventions and Pathfinder friends. Everyone just settled in with Pathfinder, and 15 some odd years later, no one wants to make the effort to adapt to a new system when Pathfinder has more content than we'll live to play through.

I did play with a Marvel crew that I loved for years, and that's the one system that I try to occasionally entice my friends with, but no bites for now. I would love to play in any edition of World of Darkness. My brief exposures to that system show me it's much better for horror and shape-shifters characters (I'm forever a critter guy). However, I've never played with a Storyteller who was competent, experienced, or well versed enough with those systems. As it's been pointed out, those games are dying off, so it's hard to find people.

I've played test games and convention one-offs of maybe a dozen other systems. I didn't have a great intro to 5e, and what I've heard in the years since hasn't given me much optimism. Aside from that, they're all fun for what they are, but with the exception of the MURPG (diceless Marvel, 3rd iteration??), no other system has ever allowed for as much customization and specificity of character creation as Pathfinder for me.

Nothing wrong with a little happy necroing now and then :p

In the intervening years, D&D put out a much better movie. Honor Among Thieves was an absolute blast! I'm actually almost grateful my husband has memory issues with movies, because I get to reintroduce him to it on a semi-frequent basis.

Supposedly, there's a live action series coming to Netflix set in the Forgotten Realms. I'm cautiously hopeful.

Dot

Excellent breakdown Tom! Thanks for jumping in :)

Pyrian Raesttag
Male Ifrit Inquisitor (Immolator) of Feronia (formerly Moloch) 6
LN Medium outsider (native)
Init 11; Senses Darkvision 60 ft.; See through Smoke and Fire; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, Touch 14, Flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
HP 60 (6d8+12)
Fort 7, Ref 6, Will 8; +4 vs. Bleed effects from HP loss, +2 vs. Fire and Light effects, +2 to Stabilize checks
Resist Fire 10, Negative Energy 1; Immune Dazzled; DR 2/Bludgeoning
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Lead-lined Blood Iron Bastard Sword +9 [+8 two-handed] (1d10+5[+8] S/19+) (+1 -> 1d6 Fire)
or Masterwork Tine-Blades Gore +9 (1d6+6 P&S/19+) (+1 Fire)
Full Attack LLBI Bastard Sword +5[+4] (1d10 +5[+8] +1d6 Fire) plus MTB Gore +4 (1d6+2 +1 Fire)
Ranged Masterwork Composite (+4) Longbow +9 (1d8+4 P/×3)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . 1/day—Efreeti magic[ARG][ARG]
Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . 6/day—Fire Bolt (1d6+4 fire)
Inquisitor Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . At will—Detect alignment
. . 6rds/day--Discern Lies
Inquisitor (Immolator) Spells Known (CL 6th; Concentration +9)
. . 2nd (4/day)—Blistering Invective*[UC] (DC 15), Flames of the Faithful*, Pyrotechnics*, Shared Training*
. . 1st (5/day)—Barbed Chains, Burning Hands* (DC 14), Expeditious Retreat*, Touch of Combustion*
. . 0 (at will)-- Brand* (DC 13), Detect Magic*, Disrupt Undead, Fire Bolt* [3pp, calling this "Ember Shot" to distinguish from Domain ability], Light, Shield Open Flame [3pp], Sift*, Spark*
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 18
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 22
Feats Scorching Weapons*, Deadly Horns* [normally Tiefling, GM approved], Precise Strike[APG], Fire Sight*, Outflank
Traits Fiery Glare*, Natural Magic*, Two World Magic*, Oppressive Expectations [drawback]
Skills Acrobatics +2, Bluff +13, Climb +4, Craft (weapons) +10, Craft (glass/pottery) +9, Diplomacy +8, Disguise +4, Intimidate +20[+21], Knowledge (Arcana/Nature) +12, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (Nobility) +3, Knowledge (Planes) +14, Knowledge (Religion) +11, Linguistics +5, Perception +10, Profession (soldier) +7, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +2, Survival +12, Swim +2
Languages Common, Ignan, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial, Dwarven, Elven
Other Gear Masterwork Lead & Sunsilk Lined Blood Iron Chain Shirt, Masterwork Aberrant Alloy Buckler, Adventures Outfit & Sash, Silver Holy Symbol, Signet Ring, Masterwork Tools for my 3 crafts, Masterwork Backpack, Matching Set of Masterwork Quicklatch Barbed Manacles and Fetters w/ Superior Locks, Skeleton Key, 10 squares worth of Vicious Caltrops, Glass bottle of Mimic Ashes, a schmidt-ton of other miscellaneous adventuring gear, 104Pp, 409 Gp, 6sp, 8cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Blood Iron Sword and Armor Each grants a +2 bonus to Intimidate when wielded/worn, +1 on first draw. Sword gains +4 to confirm crits and deadly property. Armor boosts saves vs. Bleed effects and stabilize.
Burnt Offering (flaming, 6 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant a weapon flaming ability. Slain opponents burn to ash, leaving equipment untouched.
Cunning Initiative (Ex) Add Wisdom mod to your initiative.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deadly Horns Gain a 1d6 Gore Natural Attack.
. . Masterwork Tines [mechanically Tusk Blades] Custom built of Aberrant Alloy, Adamantine, Bone, Bronze, Glass, Gold, Mithral, and Primal Iron. Depending on which tine/prong you wish to hit -4 -> -14 to attack, or variable miss chance from 0 -> 50%.
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (6 rounds/day) (Sp) (DC 15, 17, or 18?) As the spell, detect falsehoods from one targeted creature, Will negates.
Domain: Fire Several abilities. No extra spell slots or spells known for domain. GM allowing Fire Domain spells to add to Inquisitor spell list as Deific boon.
. . Energy Resistance, Fire 10
. . Fire Affinity +1CL for Fire Domain Abilities. Ifrit racial ability.
. . Fire Bolt 1d6+4 Fire (6/day) (Sp) As a standard action, ranged touch attack deals Fire dmg to foe in 30 ft.
. . Servant of the Flame +1CL for Fire Domain, stacks with Fire Affinity.
Efreeti Magic (1/day) (Sp) Cast enlarge person or reduce person 1/day.
Fiery Glare Can always take 10 on Intimidate, even in combat.
Fire Sight Can see through mundane and magical fire and smoke, ignoring concealment and cover. Immune to Dazzled condition.
Judgment (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses to Atk, Dmg, AC, DR, Energy Resistance, Fast Healing, Saves, or Concentration & Spell penetration.
Judgment of Immolation -10 (Su) Reduce target's fire resistance by listed amount.
Lead-lined equipment Weapons and armor are 1.5× as heavy. Add +1 (+2 if two handed) damage to Bludgeoning or Slashing Weapons. Light armor grants Negative Energy Resistance 1.
Monster Lore (Ex) Add Wis mod in addition to Int for Knowledge checks to learn creature abilities and weaknesses.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Scorching Weapons As a swift action, imbue up to two held weapons with intense heat adding +1 Fire damage. Always have a +2 bonus to saves vs. Fire attacks and Fire or Light spells.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones. 3/day you can "loose" your last learned Teamwork feat and replace it with any other you qualify for.
Stern Gaze (Ex) +1/2 Class lvl to Intimidate and Sense Motive Checks.
Sunsilk Lining inside armor grants DR2/Bludgeoning.
Track (Ex) Add +1/2 Class lvl bonus to Survival to follow or identify tracks.
Traits Natural Magic (Religion) adds two Druid Orisons as lvl 0 spells known. Two World Magic (Magic) adds one Wizard Cantrip to the 0 lvl spells if your class spell list.
Wildfire Heart +4 racial bonus on initiative

=========================================================

The spells, feats, traits, or other features marked with "*" are locked in parts of the concept/build or first session gameplay. I'm open to comments or suggestions on the rest. I'm debating a few of my spell choices, but I'd also appreciate recommendations for things to consider when I level up. I also still need to figure out a list of swappable Teamwork feats to use with Solo Tactics.

Remember, my group allows 3pp, currently no magic or alchemical items, and some house rules. Anything you're not clear on, feel free to ask me. Obvious point, we have a very generous stat rolling mechanic. One of our players (who is honest, and dice have been checked anyway) consistently rolls near max stats, and the group all prefer to roll stats, so this keeps us on par.

A huge THANK YOU to everyone who helped me in this endeavor!!!

I do like the idea of adding different metrics beyond raw "power" to the conversation. That term is already ambiguous, so getting more concrete would be nice. As to the archetypes thing, I'm in no way familiar with all of the tier lists out there, but I've seen a few that will acknowledge tier adjustments up or down for notably powerful or sub-par archetypes. As to combos, no thank you, that's a list of a magnitude approaching infinity (or at least an enormous enough number as to make no difference).

I'm in no way prepared to tackle something that involved, but I very much like the idea. I think I'd be more interested in the level by level comparisons than the final aggregate scores. However, with all of the archetypes in play, this is a likely monumental undertaking.

Sysryke wrote:

Well either source should work. For what it's worth I still have a physical copy of the original CRB. The quote you're looking for in in Chapter 9 "Magic", "Special Spell Effects" section, "Bonus Types", page 208, first continued paragraph of the second column, last sentence.

Oh, thank you so much for pointing out the exact location. I know that my GM has a hard copy of the CRB because I've seen it. This should settle the argument. Thanks again.

;)

Mysterious Stranger:

Sysryke is NOT asking “how do I (the player) choose which spells to prepare when I don’t know what is going to happen today.”

The question is “what can my character do to have a better idea of what is going to happen today, and choose the spells to prepare based on that.”

Sysryke isn’t looking for “spell X is more generally useful than Y, so prepare that when you don’t know anything.”

Thank you Belafon. You understand the question I'm asking quite well. To be fair to the other posters though, the problem here is likely twofold. Firstly, I don't always phrase my thoughts and questions as clearly as I would like. I tend to try to think ahead to people's questions or confusion, get overly verbose in my pre-emptive explanations, and then muddy the issue. This is why I appreciate when someone like you can actually catch my point and distill it into clearer language.

The second issue is the tendency of many of us who are intelligent, passionate, and/or creative (which I'd say is most gamers) to sometimes fixate on our own thoughts/points/perspectives and lose the forest for the trees. I was rankling a bit at Mysterious Stranger's last post. We're still not quite having the same conversation. However, the fourth paragraph did offer a few interesting points tangential to the spirit of my enquiry, so I'm still glad for the contribution.

That said, Azothath and Mysterious Stranger, I wish to thank you both for your participation. You have however been answering the question "you think" I'm asking, in part based on what I presume are your past experiences on other threads with similar language, and in part do to my own failure to be clear AND concise. I would refer you both to Belafon's last post, and suggest you check your assumptions about what you think I'm asking. I truly look forward to reading your insights if you have more to contribute when we're on the same page.

In the broader scope. I feel I've gotten some good answers (though perhaps not exhaustive) on options for Wizards and Witches. Does anyone have anything to offer more in the way of specifics for the other prepared casting classes? Druids, Clerics, Rangers, Paladins, Alchemists, Shamans, Arcanists, WarPriests, Hunters, Investigators, and any others I may have forgotten.

Sysryke wrote:

Keeping in mind that this whole scenario is a big hypothetical, let me try rephrasing again. The caster knows everything about herself as it relates to her identity, her capabilities, and her ability to prepare spells. But, in this scenario (as extremely far fetched as it might be), she basically has amnesia about where she is, what she was doing the day before, what she's doing now, or why. The only goal is, Be Effective. Nothing said so far is wrong, but those strategies are still based on pre-existing knowledge, probabilities, and hope. We're looking for options to narrow the scope or improve the probability that what you've prepared is the best choice possible.

A very singular example. If you don't know what's coming, how do you choose lightning bolt vs. fireball. Circumstance vacuum means, you don't know what's coming. Assuming lightning bolt because fire resistance is more common, or fire ball because it's numbers are slightly better are both metagame or strategy arguments, just playing the odds. What could the caster do to get a hunch which choice is right for the day? How do we make the odds better?

that is very "theoretical" and unrealistic.

First of all, I find PCs rarely "know themselves" as they metagame all the time rather than look at their skill lists - it's a lot of projection rather than acting (hey, it's a Game...).
Secondly - they would KNOW what's coming in the moment if they made their spellcraft skill checks or (pseudo-cheat) and scry ahead.

Just do what I said above IF you're playing a Wizard.
Sorcerers, Arcanists, Witches are more constrained. Alchemists and Magus are very constrained. Clerics and Druids have a poor spell list when it comes to tricky spells as they're mostly healing, condition removal, and some protections...
Almost all SLAs are drawn from the spell lists, so nothing creatively different there.
Commune:D5 is a bit tricky as the information is biased. Your...

I'm not sure if your intent with that first line was to be critical or disparaging, but it came across that way a bit. The whole point of my question and this thread was to discuss a hypothetical situation. This is a thought experiment, and any good experiment limits as many variables as possible, no matter how realistic that setup is to the real (or game) world.

I appreciate the Wizard input, and you mentioning the "constraints" on other classes. I also realize that many class features replicate spell effects. Since I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of all spells though, I'm asking about the more limited category of each prepared class's specific features. Example: What options does the constrained Alchemist have to make better extract preparation choices? The character/class, not the player.

For the purpose of this discussion/thread/experiment the variables of circumstance, player knowledge, play style, and tactics available to all classes have been removed. Wether you like this premise or not, or wether or not this scenario is likely doesn't factor in.

If the metric is about total power, my list changes. Not with any great authority, but from what I've gleaned from these threads and play for many years.

1. Wizard
2. Arcanist (swap one and two if power to you is versatility/reliability as opposed to theoretical output)
3. Witch [contends for top spot if you measure power by tactics and stamina. Falls lower if considering total theoretical spell access. Sorry Jezebel ); ]
4. Sorcerer (limited spells known keeps them off the podium. Not to derail, but I've often wondered if them being a 3/4 BAB class would fix the Wizard/Sorcerer disparity?)
5. Psychic (not enough info, but I've always been given the impression that, while Paizo did it better, psychic magic has never had consistent support, and only 4e managed to do them with any balance).

Sysryke wrote:

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

It is obvious you have not played with me or another player experienced in playing witches. :P

For those problems hexes can't solve, they have spells. Which last longer as you often use hexes instead.

I do have relatively little experience with witches, though I did help one of my friends build a White Haired Witch years ago. I guess what I meant by offensive oomph was straight damage dealing spells. Even when it's not the most optimal choice, it bothers me that every casting class doesn't have at least one damage dealing cantrip/orison.

Witch offense, at least at the first few glances, seems to be more geared towards debuff and control effects.

I left some of my original text there for emphasis.

Other full arcane spellcasters certainly have more offensive options. There are a goodly number of very good offensive spells available to a witch- Web, Stinking Cloud, Lightning Bolt and Black Tentacles for example. I could not give a stuff about my limited ability to do HPs of damage.

Imagine a combat where our parties front line fighters take on a powerful monster with Misfortune on it, our Fighters have Fortune and Protective Luck used on them.

My Witch is Cackling maniacally to keep the hexes working and everyone else is cackling maniacally at the monsters attempts to do anything. It matters naught how many HP it has. It takes a fair while to do and won't work every time, but it does not cost a single spell slot.

Absolutely no argument. All good points and great tactics. I just sometimes get fixated on the base numbers. It's like a fighter or barbarian player rolling a schmidt ton of damage dice. Sometimes it's nice to just smash/blast the crap out of enemies. In that case, I'm less likely to play the Witch, unless I've got a very specific build/concept I want to play. For instance, I'd love to play/explore a Winter Witch at some point. Which class I play depends on party needs and/or which play style itch I want to scratch. Witches are amazing! If we're staying in the Arcane full casters though, Sorcerer fits more of my personal starting character ideas.

1) Wizard (Diviner) the feats point to another school like evocation

2) Wizard (likely Diviner) multiclass into Monk-arch-flowing or Cleric-arch-VarPriest.
3) Wizard (Evoker)
4) Wizard (Conjurer)
5) Wizard (Enchanter or Illusionist)
6) Paladin multiclass with Bard or Wizard
7) Arcanist
8) Gunslinger(pistolero, musket master, or bolt ace) super simple - pew pew!
9) Cleric with side multiclass (as I'm playing a support character with flavor!)...
10) Psychic
11) Witch
12) the other ones...

A priest, a minister, and a rabbit walk into a bar. The bartender looks at the rabbit and asks, "what'll ye have?" The rabbit says, "I don't know, I'm just hare due to autocarrot."

Ha! I love a good pun.

Your list is a nice insight into your thoughts, but did you pay attention to the limits and intent of the OP's original question? The only classes under consideration here are the five first named in the original post.

Keeping in mind that this whole scenario is a big hypothetical, let me try rephrasing again. The caster knows everything about herself as it relates to her identity, her capabilities, and her ability to prepare spells. But, in this scenario (as extremely far fetched as it might be), she basically has amnesia about where she is, what she was doing the day before, what she's doing now, or why. The only goal is, Be Effective. Nothing said so far is wrong, but those strategies are still based on pre-existing knowledge, probabilities, and hope. We're looking for options to narrow the scope or improve the probability that what you've prepared is the best choice possible.

A very singular example. If you don't know what's coming, how do you choose lightning bolt vs. fireball. Circumstance vacuum means, you don't know what's coming. Assuming lightning bolt because fire resistance is more common, or fire ball because it's numbers are slightly better are both metagame or strategy arguments, just playing the odds. What could the caster do to get a hunch which choice is right for the day? How do we make the odds better?

Sysryke wrote:

I quite enjoy a Witch's familiar, as well as the hexes, I just wish they had a little more offensive oomph. Part of that depends on how much splat you have access to, and/or 3pp.

It is obvious you have not played with me or another player experienced in playing witches. :P

Just considering Paizo publications w/o third party witches are excellent offensively. They can devastate individuals with hexes and cackle. Then the hexes are still there for the next encounter.

For those problems hexes can't solve, they have spells. Which last longer as you often use hexes instead.

I do have relatively little experience with witches, though I did help one of my friends build a White Haired Witch years ago. I guess what I meant by offensive oomph was straight damage dealing spells. Even when it's not the most optimal choice, it bothers me that every casting class doesn't have at least one damage dealing cantrip/orison.

Witch offense, at least at the first few glances, seems to be more geared towards debuff and control effects.

Well either source should work. For what it's worth I still have a physical copy of the original CRB. The quote you're looking for in in Chapter 9 "Magic", "Special Spell Effects" section, "Bonus Types", page 208, first continued paragraph of the second column, last sentence.

So, I like all this discussion, but you're still talking "best guess" and good strategy Mr. Stranger. If there are combats upcoming, then your recommendations are useful. What I'm wondering is how to reduce the guesswork, or at least make it an educated guess when it comes to which spells to prepare.

So, the caster is "alone" either in fact or in practice. He has all the necessary time to prepare his spells, but access to only his own class features and gear. When he leaves the area of his preparations, he has no clue what the day will bring. What can he do to know wether he should be preparing for social encounters, a cave, farm or city, combat, distant travel, cold energy attacks, enchantments, research, crafting, or whatever else the cosmos is prepared to offer him?

Divination spells saved from the previous day are one answer. Sending a familiar or AC to scout is another. Witches have some info gathering hexes. What other features do the other classes have to help them choose the best spells for the day? Not Player strategy, but Character tools. Except for specific divination spells to use to guide the choice of your other spells, not which specific (or types) of spells, but other class features. We're looking for the actions to take BEFORE spell preparation and the adventuring day.

I'm partial to Sorcerer for the inbuilt flavor that comes from bloodlines. I also prefer the consistency of spontaneous casting.

Arcanist tempts me, but can be a bit complex. Versatility for the win, but fewer spell slots.

I quite enjoy a Witch's familiar, as well as the hexes, I just wish they had a little more offensive oomph. Part of that depends on how much splat you have access to, and/or 3pp.

If you want to be a specialist in a school of magic, then Wizard's are absolutely the best.

I don't know enough about Psychic to opine, but that may say something about the class, if it's failed to capture my attention after all these years.

Basically, it's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job, and that depends on the type of character you like to build. I build for theme first usually. On that metric:

1.Sorcerer
2.Witch
3.Wizard
4.Arcanist
5.Psychic

@DragonChess Player

I appreciate your contributions, but I think you're failing to apprehend the premise of this thread. I would point you to Joynt Jezebel and Belafon's responses, as they've clarified my idea much better than I originally presented it. You seem to be coming at this from a player strategy perspective. Your recommendations are good advice, but things I'm mostly familiar with. I'm asking more from an in character perspective (albeit still using game mechanic terminology) what resources a prepared caster has contained within themselves and derived uniquely from their own class to guide their preparation choices.

Obviously it's impossible to account for all variables and all situations. But (making up numbers here for example), if a prepared caster normally has a 60% chance of preparing spells appropriate to the day's needs, what class features could he use to bump that up to 75 or 80%?

As important as knowing what you are facing is for a prepared caster there is another thing that is nearly equally important for them to know. Knowing the abilities of your party is almost as important as knowing what you are going to be facing. That information is something the prepared caster should always have. With the right spells the wizard can usually cover most roles especially out of combat.

If you lack a stealthy character invisibility can often be used to get that done. In some cases, the wizard can even cast it on someone else instead of casting it on themselves. Casting invisibility on the halfling swashbuckler is going to be more effective than the wizard casting it on themselves.

Another thing the wizard can do is to use his spells to fix obvious weaknesses in other party members. Casting Heroism on a character with only one good save can really boost their survival rate, on a rogue it also boosts all their skill and chance to hit so is incredibly effective. Any monk is going to be grateful for the wizard casting mage armor to boost his AC.

As other have mentioned divination spells can give you a clue on what you might be facing. Clerics have some good divination spells for this. If there is a cleric in the party memorizing one of these can help the party wizard by alleviating the information vacuum. Cooperation between characters will make all characters stronger.

All great points that I both know and completely agree with, just not entirely germane to this thread. Those are all great party tactics. This thread is about the hypothetical situation where the casting character either cannot access, use, or otherwise rely upon his allies.

Sysryke wrote:

Does it all come down to Divination though? Or, are there other class features that can provide insight/guidance/luck to make "better" preparation choices?

Basically, yes.

Your premise is that you are in an information vacuum, and have no idea what would be good choices. There are tons and tons of things you could do to get out of the information vacuum if you had that option (send the party rogue to scout before you prepare, ask your commanding officer what your mission for the day will be, etc.), but that's not the premise. And there are quite a few class and feat options that give you more . . .

Thank you. You actually summed up my idea more clearly and succinctly than I could manage. Your right that the feats don't quite match the premise. They're neither class unique, nor providing foreknowledge. However, that kind of flexibility does come near the spirit of this inquiry, raising the chance of not having wasted prepared spells. I'm glad to have learned about those feats.

It's good to know about those other class features you alluded to. I actually think those do satisfy the premise. I didn't mean to imply that divination was excluded or objectionable. I just was looking for options beyond divination spells. SLAs and SU abilities are perfect. If spells are the only "sneak peek" options available to a certain class, then I'm curious which ones are best.

Sysryke wrote:

Excellent insight into the Witch. That sort of analysis is part of what I'm looking for.

Since witches are what I know best, I thought I would finish answering the question.

Hexes don't do much for gathering information of this kind. Hag Eye and Beast Skin are good greater hexes useful for gathering information, but they facilitate spying. The grand hex Summon spirit should be of use, but I have never had it so can't really confirm. Summon a ghost that knows what you are trying to find out is the idea.

Familiars with commune or other information gathering spells will work.

Apart from that it is just spells.

Actually, that all sounds exactly like what I'm asking about. Hexes are different from spells, and familiars I would consider to be part of a character. Sending out your familiar to scout is definitely one way to get some extra info before you commit to your choices for the day. I get that most of the time a caster has allies, can draw on past experience and/or context clues, or just have a reliable list of preset spell packages based on statistically useful spells, but it's nice to have some extra options if you find yourself somewhere strange and on your own.

Now, about other prepared casters . . . ?

spell search Divination is the arcane school of information gathering and those spells can help with knowing what to prepare for the next adventuring day or days.

Augury, speak with ___, commune, seek thoughts, clairvoyance, and scry are all used for that.

Thank you Azothath. This is more what I was wondering about.

Sysryke- The other 2 respondents are giving answers that are at least largely correct. I also doubt they are the kind of answers you are looking for.

I had a look at witch spells to level 3 and found Ears of the City, Commune with Birds, Detect thoughts [sort of] and Planar inquiry. Read thoughts can also be very useful but you need something to go on for it to be any use.

Even more powerful spell like Contact other plane [a witch spell] or commune in its various forms [you need divine casters for these] all fall short of completely solving information problems.

I think this is deliberate design. Spells can be powerful tools to gather info but normally it does part of the job. The spell tends to point you in the right direction [when it works] but usually you have to search out something or make like Sherlock Holmes.

Another thing worth mentioning is having someone in the party with a familiar with commune is a real boon. It saves you 500gp each time it is used and you don't have to have the spell memorised.

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for :)

Theoretically, a Wizard could try to always save one (or however many) divination spells from the previous day, and cast them to guide his next day's spell prep. Sacrificing a few spell slots, to have a greater chance of ensuring all his other spells get to be utilized.

Does it all come down to Divination though? Or, are there other class features that can provide insight/guidance/luck to make "better" preparation choices?

For prepared casters, a fairly effective strategy is to have two or three "standard load outs" for the day's expected activities: dungeon (combat-heavy, short ranges, small spaces), social/urban (combat-light, minimize collateral damage), and possibly wilderness (mix of combat and exploration, few if any limits on mobility, long ranges, wide AoEs). Note that these "standard load outs" can be often used as starting points to tailor the selection if you do have an idea about the specific encounters and challenges that are expected for that day (e.g., enemies with specific resistances and/or weaknesses, environmental conditions [water breathing for flooded areas], etc.).

I get the strategy point. What I'm asking is, what class specific features do different classes have to get the information they need to "tailor" their spells? This is where the hypothetical circumstance vacuum comes in. For this discussion, assume that there are no allies to help scout, and mundane skills don't work. What, if any, unique options does a Ranger, vs. a Druid, vs. a Psychic, vs. a Warpriest, etc. have?

it is rather simple and you are just creating/inflating fears.

Wizards are the most powerful class due to their spell list, bonded . . .

I'm not creating any fears. I wasn't asking about why prepared casters are good or bad, or how/why Wizard's are the best. I'm not even really asking for advice on spell selection or builds (except maybe divinations). That's why this is a general discussion thread, and not an advice one.

What I was wondering about was the features different prepared caster classes have to help them prepare useful/relevant spells each day. Any player can read guides and try to make good strategic choices. What I'm asking about is what other abilities can a character use to guide those choices?

Can a Cleric or Druid somehow commune with the Divine and get advice about what spells they'll need? Can a Wizard use some type of divination? What about Witches, Paladins, Alchemists, Rangers, Shamans, and the rest? Are there other features besides spells? If only spells, which spell(s) for each class give the most reliable glimpse or direction from the future?

This isn't a critique of prepared casting. This is just wondering how these characters manage this challenge.

Excellent insight into the Witch. That sort of analysis is part of what I'm looking for.

As to the circumstance vacuum, I realize that no such state exists. I explained this poorly, but I'm trying to limit the variables and scope of my inquiry. Put another way, IF HYPOTHETICALLY, you can't rely on allies or skills to provide you with information, the GM won't provide any information without game mechanical means justification, and you have no context clues about where you are or what you might be facing, what can your character do?

Basically you only have the knowledge and powers of your own character at your disposal, and all you know is that you will wake up and be able to prepare your spells. What divination spells or other class features can each prepared casting class use to aquire information to not have to make their choices utterly blind, and more than just player experience and strategy?

I'm going down a questions rabbit hole, but hopefully this is my last new thread for a little while.

I'm wondering how prepared casters make the most out of the "prepared" feature. I understand scouting, choosing gold standard or high versatility spells, and leaving empty slots. What I'm curious about is what class specific/unique options these characters have to mitigate poor spell selection.

If somehow you have no information about where you are, no allies to advise you, and no foreknowledge from the GM, what can these characters do to inform their spell choices for the day?

For instance, a wizard's familiar can be sent to scout and then advise. Anyone with divination spells can try those, but which spells are best for giving insight into your spell prep for each class? Within the confines of their own class features and their own actions, what other abilities do each class possess to help them make better choices?

It's also possible your friends could be dealing with their own anxiety as players. Maybe do a quick check in every few sessions. Have everyone share comments about what they liked or thought was cool/useful about each other's characters, but also offer constructive critiques on things you might have each done differently. This could even be a useful roleplay tool if done as post-encounter campfire talk. You can cheer each other on, remember fun game moments, and develop better party comraderie and tactics.

Not to pile on, but hopefully to help . . .

I'm diagnosed with GAD myself, and I've played with players who struggle with anxiety more severe than mine. I tend to ride myself hardest when GMing, but the feelings of fear of being annoying, not good enough, a burden are all too familiar. The best way for me to tackle this is a combination of the care of my friends and aggressive logic. This hobby is a game, and nobody is being forced to play with you. If your friends were truly that frustrated with you, they'd either stop hanging out with you, or at the very least, stop gaming with you. If you're all still coming to the table and having fun, then you're doing something right. I know how hard it can be, but you just have to think that, say that, and act like you believe it every day.

The only way you'll really be a burden is if you allow your anxiety to tie you down and keep you from playing. I have had a few acquaintances who got too much into their own heads/characters/feels and torpedoed games by panic/sulking. It doesn't sound like you're doing any of that, so keep playing, and give yourself some grace. Support characters are awesome!

Afterthought: You might talk to your GM about adding some extra elements into your games. Exploring diseases, poisons, curses, and other long-term ailments could give your characters a bit more spotlight time, if you're craving a little bit more obvious signs of your usefulness.

I've never been much of an online person. I found these threads as a resource when dipping my toes into GMing in earnest for the first time. I hope this community continues to thrive, if somewhat reduced in numbers. Considering that every time I pop back on, the threads I'd engaged with have fallen way down the line, I take some hope in this.

While there are systems I enjoy more for different things (MARVEL!!!!!), and editions I've even able to have fun in (*blush* *whisper* 4e), PF1e still hits a sweet spot, and the rest of my crew are happy to stay here. If anything, I am nostalgic and more than a bit jealous of DeathlessOne and others for when I was still active in multiple games. Yet coming here, engaging in discussion and the marketplace of ideas over this thing we all enjoy helps to fill some of that need. I'm happy to have you all.

I'm always so behind when it comes to technology, pop-cupture, and other trends, that should this site ever fade, I will be caught completely unawares, and feel quite sad. Hopefully, our little corner of the net, and Paizo's servers, is vibrant enough, (and resource cost low enough) to just keep chugging along. Regardless, I'm happy to have had these experiences.

Secretly being an "old man from the 50's" (in spirit), I will encourage or remind others here though, to not forget/forsake the real world. I know you have to be careful online, but if you've made good friends here, make the effort to keep in touch, whether by other correspondence or IRL. But, what do I know? I'm also just a baby (on another thread :p)

Lots of good advice on here. But, can I just ask the OP, please don't cut yourself down so much. We were all new players once, and we all have different strengths and weaknesses as players. I'm not the strongest number cruncher or tactics guru myself :p

That aside, what specifically do you like about the magic users in video games and films? If it's just the aesthetic, numerous classes with supernatural or spell like abilities could serve you well. If it's blasting magics of great elemental or arcane energies, Sorcerer, and Kineticist can both fit well, or really any caster with the right build. From a RP perspective you could build any of these and just call yourself a wizard. However, if specifically the wizard class is what you must be, then you already have a lot of good information in the above posts.

Something I try and do is either choose a theme and/or choose a role/job within the party. The sheer scope of the wizard's spell list can be overwhelming. Using a theme can help you pare down your choices more quickly, and as was said above, finding the spells that let you fill the gaps in your party makes sure that you aren't a "burden". Just keep in mind, RPGS are most often group ventures. When your character can't do something, that's why you have teammates. IMO there's nothing worse than the character (really player) who thinks they can do everything. If that's really the case, then why even travel with companions?

I'll also +1 in favor of at least one damage dealing cantrip. I like having an always available magic offense option. Investment of a trait, feat, or just appropriate gear can keep them semi-relevant. Most of the time though, unless you want to be a blaster, direct damage is what a wizard does when he's got nothing better to do. Basically, outside of dire circumstances, you're going to fall back on damage cantrips only for RP or "clean up" when the fight's no longer really a challenge ("Oh look, a rat . . . ." *Zap*). If the circumstances are dire though, I'll take the ranged and more likely to hit 1d3, over the melee and likely to miss 1d4 nearly every time. That said, in a traditional medieval type setting, what character doesn't have at least an eating knife/dagger? You're not breaking the bank there.

When you do try a wizard, just figure out who you want the character to be, what you want to excel at, and how that character can gel with the rest of your party. There are enough options to go nearly any direction you choose, as long as you commit to your choices. Have fun :)

I've only been posting since spring of 4723, but I've been lurking since mid-late covid, when I properly got into the game. So I win at being the baby of the site. :)

*Fussy toddler glares at the new baby*

:p