Sorcerer becoming a dragon via wish. How to handle?

[Seems]

So the 15th level sorcerer in my group obtained a wish prior to the finale of CotCT, and is thinking of using it to polymorph himself into a gold dragon. What would happen to his sorcerer levels? And how many HD would he have?

My initial thought is that if he actually becomes a gold dragon, he gains all of the abilities of a gold dragon, including spells, but loses his sorcerer levels. He's a dragon now - his sorcerous ability was tied to his old body and is now replaced by his draconic abilities. He would obviously like to be a 15th level sorcerer in a dragon's body!

And how many HD would he have? If handled like the Polymorph spell, he would have the same HD as levels, so 15? Or can he become an adult gold dragon (18 HD)?

Any ideas on how to handle this? Not sure if this is strictly a polymorph or something else.

[Mysterious Stranger]

I don’t think even a wish is going to be powerful enough to permanently turn a character into a dragon. A wish is basically able to duplicate any 8th level sorcerer spell. Form of the Dragon is an 8th level sorcerer spell but only lasts 1 minute per level.

Is the character a draconic bloodline sorcerer or dragon disciple?

If the character is a dragon disciple, I could see allowing him to have the benefits of the form of the dragon at will with an unlimited duration.

If the character is a draconic bloodline sorcerer maybe allowing him to swap out levels of sorcerer to dragon disciple would work.

If the character is not have the draconic bloodline changing his bloodline to draconic would be about all I would do.

Another option would be to allow him to get the use Form of the Dragon II as spell like ability as if he is dragon disciple.

[Loren Pechtel]

I would say the sorcerer levels are retained--but it's not possible in the first place because that's way beyond the power of a wish. Depending on his age the body is going to probably be CR12. Adding 15 levels of sorcerer to this comes up as CR21. Using normal advacement that's 7.2M XP minus the 635k XP he already has--it's adding 6.565M XP. I would say you need a spell that can create an item worth more than 30M gold--thus a spell more than 1000 times as powerful as a ninth level spell.

That's probably beyond what even a deity can do.

[Joey Cote]

Could be mean and let him polymorph into a young dragon. Even if he keeps his sorcerer levels, since dragons of that age category are not able to cast spells, the sorcerer also wouldn't be able to as I understand it. He would need something like natural spell feat? Form of the Dragon spells don't indicate that the caster is still able to cast spells while changed, even the higher level ones. He might also have some problem equipping some magic items such as cloaks and robes as a dragon.

The player would probably be pretty upset but it makes sense if the mortal is giving up his present power to become something that can live for thousands of years with incredible room for growth in personal power. Not that would matter for the campaign, but makes sense when thinking about the world overall the the power level of a wish effect.

[Kurald Galain]

Seems wrote:

My initial thought is that if he actually becomes a gold dragon, he gains all of the abilities of a gold dragon, including spells, but loses his sorcerer levels. He's a dragon now - his sorcerous ability was tied to his old body and is now replaced by his draconic abilities.

I would go with this. It's a campaign finale, make it impressive. This is not the moment to be mean or go "lol nope" on his one-of-a-kind wish.

[Sysryke]

Not sure what spells a 15 hd gold dragon comes with, but keep in mind that the beastiary stat blocks are generic examples of the creature. It would be entirely legitimate to swap some of the spells the dragon comes with for some of the players spells known. That way, the power boost is present, but not overwhelming, and he still retains some of who he was pre wish.

[zza ni]

this should be very easy to deal with:

just consider the wish just cast polymorph any object on the sorcerer.

if he changes into a dragon (same kingdom +5), with the same size (medium i assume , +2). and doesn't change his int ( same or lower int +2) then the total will be 9+ = duration is Permanent.

all nice and done.

for the changes, just consider this as a permanent form of the dragon I into a medium size dragon:

"You become a Medium chromatic or metallic dragon. You gain a +4 size bonus to Strength, a +2 size bonus to Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus, fly 60 feet (poor), darkvision 60 feet, a breath weapon, and resistance to one element. You also gain one bite (1d8), two claws (1d6), and two wing attacks (1d4). Your breath weapon and resistance depend on the type of dragon. You can only use the breath weapon once per casting of this spell."

if you want to really change him into a dragon and not a humanoid polymorphed into one - change his type to dragon, add him the dragon resistances, immunities and change the breath to be like normal dragons once he breath he need to wait 1d4+1 rounds.

leave the rest (hd and class levels) alone.

[Peg'giz]

First of all I would allow it as this is the campaign finale and the player earned the wish.

I would sit down with the player between sessions and talk this through with him/her.

What does she/he expect from becoming a dragon?
Does she/he understand the benefits/drawbacks of it?
Does she/he understands the impact for the group/other players?
How can you two balance it out with the rest of the group?

I would suggest something like a permanent form of the dragon /like zza ni suggested) but let the player choose the size.

Don't make it more complicate then it's needed. ;)
And talk to the player! :D

[Sauce987654321]

Basically, since it's endgame, I would make it akin to a polymorph effect that's permanency'd, as the spell permanency. Possibly immune to dispel effects, maybe.

Reading above how "wish isn't powerful enough" confuses me at what that even means. Wish is as strong as the GM wants it to be, like, that's literally the entire point of the spell. You know, the last sentence that states you can go beyond the listed effects.

[zza ni]

well as an 8th level polymorph spell can change him to a dragon permanently, as i mentioned above, wish should easily do the same and more.

[Temperans]

This sounds like a matter of "will there be more after this point".

If there wont be more with these characters then making it permanent doesn't matter.

If there will be more the risk of potentially losing the form might make for good drama.

[Loren Pechtel]

zza ni wrote:

well as an 8th level polymorph spell can change him to a dragon permanently, as i mentioned above, wish should easily do the same and more.

Until it gets dispelled...

[zza ni]

even wishes can get dispelled.
the point was that the wish for turning into a dragon wasn't too powerful. as a spell a level lower can do something like that with a permanent effect.

[Zepheri]

i will say iin can be if te wiish dublicate a rebirth spell in some mater

then i go to 3 rules to apply the transformation in exchange of sor lvl: age, CR and HD of te dragon compared to the humanoid (lets say human)

is he a 21 year old sorceres lvl 19 i will go to dragon age category and see whiit dragon age its similar iin this case he will be a young dragon, thhen i will exchange 12 sorceres lvl since the gold dragon have a base of 8d12 HD +4 more HD, then i see that the dragon have a CR equal of the base +4 so i take 4 more sorceres lv to exchange

so in the end he will be transform in a young gold dragon 12HD sorceres lvl 3 and gain all the special abilitys of a dragon of that age