Another Family Group

Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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As some of you probably know, I have a group of characters that are all different races but are all siblings. I was thinking it might be fun to have another family group that are again all different races but all siblings. But instead of being one human parent, one non-human parent, I'm looking at all the races that are technically not human despite having completely human parents, like Tieflings, Aasimars, and Sylphs. (I say this having not completed 2 of those characters.)

I was hoping for a couple of suggestions on some other of these types of races and some classes. I'd like to avoid class overlap with the other group so Arcanist, Bard, Cavalier, Cleric, Inquisitor, Monk, and Slayer are all out.

I'm thinking that the easiest way to figure out classes is looking at what roles they can cover. Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Divine Casting, Arcane Casting, Skill Monkey, and Face. Obviously a single class can cover multiples of these (my bard covers Ranged DPS, Arcane Casting, Skill Monkey, and Face) but it's a good guideline to go by.

I already had a half-started Tiefling Rogue sheet so I figured that can just cover that character. And Aasimars have a boost to both Wis and Cha, so I at first thought Paladin but that might be too stereotypical.

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Nothing wrong with leaning in to stereotypes. How many siblings were you considering this time?

It could be interesting is they all had the same two parents, but there's just A LOT of baggage in the family tree.

Not sure if they're just alternates or 3pp, but there are chaotic and lawful outsider ancestor equivalents to Aasimars and Tieflings. Can't recall the names, and the current computer I'm on is not multi-tab search friendly.

Obviously you have all four of the elemental races, and then chuck in the Fetchlings for shadow elemental types. That gets you to as many as 9 right there, so again, how big is this family?

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If you get a nomadic, gypsy, and/or tribal theme going, then barbarian, bloodrager, and skald all could be appropriate. Druid, Hunter, Ranger, and Shifter could also fit a more primal/tribal type family. Your rogue doesn't have to stand out, they can fit anywhere, especially if you look into the scout or skirmisher type builds.

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I'm thinking 7. That's a decent sized group but not so big that it truly unmanageable. Some of them can be half-siblings and some full siblings.

I like the elemental races ideal since I'm already looking at Sylph. With the other 3 and Tiefling and Aasimar, that's 6.

Those classes do cover both arcane and divine, and Skald is Cha based. Ranger is also another skill monkey and almost all of these are great DPS classes. Although I'm not sure 3 pet classes in one group is that great an idea. Maybe switch out Hunter for Oracle. That would make 2 Cha casters and 2 Wis casters.

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I'd recommend Fetchling as your seventh race for this crew, unless you start combing through 3rd party.

If Oracle makes you happy, go for it. However, if it's just the pets issue, both druids and rangers have good alternate class features to their ACs, so only the Hunter really "has to" have a pet.

If the tribal idea appeals to you, somehaman and witch are good options too. I could also see using one or both of those as a background for the shared parent. I'm imagining some ritual or plan where the mother or father channeled or communed with various spirits during the conception of each sibling in order to fulfill some prophecy, or pay some otherworldly debt. Quite literally "planned" children.

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Since you don't want copycat classes of the other family, you have severely limited our access to really good buffing options... Your other family has the Bard, Cleric, and Monk... all of which can provide access to Inspire Courage... that leaves this family with... ummm, Oath of the People's Council Paladin? Probably going to need that.

Skald. Tribe Spirit Shaman. Succor Mystery Oracle. Pack Rager Barbarian. And the aforementioned People's Council Paladin... focus on teamwork...

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Continuing off of my previous suggestion(s)... a Freebooter Ranger can provide pretty decent buffs. And Divine Commander Warpriests get Tactician.

So all of these could have some form of Tactician:
Barbarian [Pack Rager]
Oracle [Succor Mystery]
Shaman [Tribe Spirit]
Warpriest [Divine Commander]

And these two cats can both provide static bonuses to attack and damage (that stack with each other):
Paladin [Oath of the People's Council]
Ranger [Freebooter]

With lots of teamwork feats being tossed around, we can probably find some more use for flanking... which opens up Sneak Attack for your Rogue... maybe a Vivisectionist Alchemist?

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Hm. I will look at those archetypes. Having a couple of characters that can share at least one teamwork feat each can be huge. Imagine one of them grabbing a Keen Scimitar and sharing Outflank while someone else shares Paired Opportunists. Everyone in melee gets all the AoOs.

Sysryke, I love that backstory idea. They could all have different mothers and the 'father' gets possessed by various spirits for each coupling.

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Minigiant's recent post reminded me that the Exemplar Brawler also gets Inspire Courage. And, on top of that, there is also the Marshal Spirit that Mediums can channel. That actually gives you a pretty decent list of team-players for your second family...

Barbarian [Pack Rager]
Brawler [Exemplar]
Medium [Marshal Spirit]
Oracle [Succor Mystery]
Paladin [Oath of the People's Council]
Ranger [Freebooter]
Shaman [Tribe Spirit]
Warpriest [Divine Commander]

If, by chance, kingdom building rules are in play... then the Majordomo Investigator can use their Deligate ability to hand out teamwork feats, but otherwise they are just an Investigator without Alchemy. Majordomo really shine in Intelligence-based roles in kingdom building games, though.

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That's a lot of divine casters. I think I'll drop Medium for Skald to get an arcane caster in there. That's still 8 classes for a group of 7. I'll have to think about whether I want a Paladin or a Warpriest.

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I was more trying to provide a list of archetypes/classes that provide party-wide support... not necessarily everyone in the family has to be from that list.

For my nomadic caravan tribe... I think we, as a community, determined earlier that gypsies are specific to eastern Europe cultures and the name [gypsies] is not universal for all nomadic caravans... I try make sure everyone has a role in the caravan, rather than thinking in terms of a party of playable characters. In your case, it would be the family.

They probably travel together, but not always fight together as a whole. Some missions need Jack because he is sneaky, other missions might need Jim because he is strong. Having everyone be capable of handing out Inspire Courage doesn't do any good, because it doesn't stack, it just wouldn't help. Same with handing out teamwork feats with Tactician... there are only so many useful teamwork feats for any given mission, so not everyone needs Tactician, either.

However, making sure there are several different ways to hand out Inspire Courage and/or teamwork feats with Tactician within the group means that at least SOMEONE with Inspire Courage or Tactician makes sense to be on the sneaky missions with Jack, and there is someone else with Inspire Courage and/or Tactician that makes sense to go on missions with Jim when strength is required... or whatever the current encounter calls for, covering as wide of spectrum as possible makes the most sense. Otherwise, the family would have picked up non-family companions to cover roles they, themselves, cannot.

My entire nomadic caravan tribe is built using small races. They have to get creative in certain situations simply because of their size. But, I am not limited to members of a single bloodline, and so I have many different races to cover various movement speeds like flight. Flying helps overcome being short in a lot of cases. There are a few small races without Strength penalties, so we have a few bruisers that can break stuff or lift things when the time calls for such.

If your family isn't relatively self sustaining, then the chances of them remaining just the family is slim. They would HAVE to pick up companions that cover roles they cannot, otherwise traveling together would be inadequate to survive certain situations... and if they aren't traveling together, it's just a war party with a rotating roster you can cherry pick from. Lol. That may be your intent, just having a fluid party sharing a simple theme [in this case being members of the same family].

I built my nomadic caravan tribe to be an actual tribe that exists on its own... it is not simply a roster I can quick grab a handful of pre-built characters from like a casting call for whatever the current mission happens to be. Some of them are in relationships and prefer to be with their partner regardless of what the mission is... and that goes both ways, sometimes they may volunteer to go out on a mission with their partner even if they don't fit that mission... sometimes the person most fit for a particular mission refuses to go because they choose to stay back with their partner. Not all the archers can leave on the same mission, we always need to leave enough guards to protect the actual caravan, our stuff, and those that stay behind.

That is why I find it important to build team-players above all else in these circumstances. Just choosing the archetype with access to Inspire Courage or Tactician opens up opportunity to help everyone.

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Ok, even dropping either Paladin or Warpriest, that's still 4 divine casters and one arcane caster. What's another decent arcane caster that can fit into the 'tribal' theme?

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Heather 540 wrote:
Ok, even dropping either Paladin or Warpriest, that's still 4 divine casters and one arcane caster. What's another decent arcane caster that can fit into the 'tribal' theme?


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Ok, Witch it is. That makes the full group Witch, Rogue, Barbarian, Skald, Oracle, Ranger, and Shaman.

I think all the roles are covered.

Melee: Rogue and Barbarian.
Ranged: Ranger.
Divine Caster: Oracle, Ranger, and Shaman.
Arcane Caster: Witch and Skald.
Skill Monkey: Rogue and Skald.
Face: Skald and Oracle.

Now it's just a matter of picking out which races goes to which class and the individual builds. I suppose I should finish my sorcerer and slayer first though.

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Someone mentioned the Suli and Ganzi races, and I think they could fit as members of this little family. I would need two more classes. Druid and Hunter both fit the theme, but the divine casters are outnumbering the arcane a bit.

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Heather 540 wrote:
Someone mentioned the Suli and Ganzi races, and I think they could fit as members of this little family. I would need two more classes. Druid and Hunter both fit the theme, but the divine casters are outnumbering the arcane a bit.

Weaponplay Ganzi have innate martial weapon proficiency, and can thus qualify for Eldritch Knight without multiclassing. Lol. Going with Universalist Wizard for Hand of the Apprentice, or Sword Binder Wizard, or Blade Adept Arcanist... enter Eldritch Knight as soon as it's convenient. Wear Sunsilk Ceremonial Armor to avoid Acrane Spell Failure chances, and Armor Check Penalties. There are probably better Eldritch Knights, but at least it's arcane. Lol.

I've been looking through archetypes of various arcane casters. I'm torn between the Nature-Bonded Magus and the Sorcerer with the Verdant Bloodline.

Ok. Looking at all the stats, racial traits, and some flavor, I think I'm going to go with this in terms of class/race combos.

Rogue: Ganzi
Skald: Suli
Oracle: Ifrit
Ranger: Undine
Shaman: Oread
Hunter: Sylph
Sorcerer: Fetchling
Witch: Aasamar
Tiefling: Barbarian

I'm thinking of adding a Dhampir to the group. I just want to but not sure if I should. I can always make an unrelated character that's a Dhampir but having a half-vampire in the group does work. I'm looking at either Bloodrager or Kineticist if I do.

Since many of the partial planar races seem to be recessive traits you could get a lot of different races out of this. When you throw in that some of the races can manifest because a parent or child was exposed to magical influence you can get even more.

The following planar races are often born to human parents. Aasimar, Ganzi, Ifrit, Oread, Slyph, Suli, Tiefling, Unine. A Dhampir could be the result of exposure or magical experimentation. Duskwalkers and Shabti are races that have basically been sent back to life, so they could also be a possibility.

One of the characters could actually be human so that puts the number of races to 12. If you really want to push it have the parents, be considered half elves instead of human. That gives you the option for a half elf or even a full elf. If you go with half elves the human or elven character will show some signs of human or elf heritage.

Fetchlings changed the humans to something else so they probably would not work.

For this to happen the parents probably are the result of a lot of inbreeding. Maybe they came from an isolated community with little to no outside influence.

Basically there is one father and each kid has a different mother. Their little village was taken over by a cult. The cult leader channeled various spirits into the dad before "making" each baby. Then the guy "made" another with his wife and the amount of magic around turned that kid into a Ganzi.

I was thinking that an undead spirit of some can could be what causes a Dhampir baby.

The Ganzi could have been created by the cult leader summoning a chaotic spirit.

This actually expands out the list a bit more. Fetchlings, Changlings, Deep Ones (Hybrid) might be possible. It also adds all half humans to the pool.

Yeah, I already have one kid being a Ganzi. And a Fetchling.

I don't want to do normal half-humans like half-orcs and half-elves for this though. Just the ones that have human parents but aren't human themselves. I'll take a look at the Deep Ones.

Ok, Deep One Hybrids work with this concept but MAN that Sea Longing handicap sucks. And the only way to get rid of it is when they become actual Deep One and get +6 Str! I don't think I'd ever be allowed to use a character with this race unless I never age it. But then, possible Wisdom drain every day.

I don't think Changlings would work since it requires a hag and those are all female.

Someone suggested Aphorite. It works just fine, though I wish there was a chaos-based version as that would fit the theme better.

As long as the mother is a Hag the Changling should not be a problem. You already stated the father is the common parent, but that is up to you.

The Ganzi are the chaos-based native outsider.

I see. Well, I've already got a Ganzi so the choice is either Aphorite, a very handicapped character as a Deep One Hybrid that doesn't age, or not adding a sibling at all.

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