You can always drop your pack at the start of fights assuming you're not constantly pulling things out of it in combat, but it turns out being small is probably better for the build anyway especially if you can get bonuses to Dex and Wis/Con.
Everytime a pc does that in games I play, someone steals or attacks the now unattended object.
Great way to lose all that expensive gear.
LOL! the second time I drop my "pack", it's likely to have something fun in it (like a lit fuse grenade). Or maybe just a Fire Trap/Glyph of Warding?
depends on a lot of things...
it is kind of a trope though, so whatever works for you. Just do try not to add this level of realism to your Role Playing (this is another advantage of Table Top vs. LARPs...)
So, I am once more trying to fit the Alchemist shape into another class shaped hole and was curious, What archetype, Or combination of archetypes, Would you recomend for a Rogue like Alchemist? Sneaking, Stealing, Picking locks and disabling traps, Taking out enemies and such?
I prefer the CryptBraker in this roll, but a Trapbreaker works almost as well. (Be sure to checkout the Extract reduce person, as it boosts Stealth and Dex).
This one item has so many different ways it is interpreted by different Judges in PFS Play (sometimes by the same Judge at different times in the same scenario) that I simply gave up even trying to use it.
The DC 25 is not the simplest to hit... even if the Judge lets you Take 10 on the roll, which some don't (INT of 20 gives a +5, +3 class skill, +2 for a Masterwork Tool, still requires 5 ranks in Spellcraft, so a 5th level PC.). And if you want to Mix Holy Water this DC goes up by 5 more... and by 5th level your bombs will be doing 3d6 in themselves...
Then it takes 10 Minutes to produce one mixed weapon... so an hour to get 6. Early in my PCs life I have mixed Acid with a bunch of things go get cheap weapons - only to discover that my targets had Acid & Fire resistance 5... and the judge then split my Alchemist Int Bonus (from the Alchemists Throw Anything) between both... so most of the time I wasn't actually doing anything even with direct hits. (And splash damage was 3 of one type and 4 of the other). Later I just started to mix Acid and Alkili - which was more effective, but feels like it really shouldn't work...
Anyway - I've stopped even giving this item to my Alchemists in PFS - to much YMMV.
I really like the cheaper items - still very affordable/useful even at low level.
Potion of Mage Armor, or have the caster place the spell on you before the meeting... other potions for buff spells, or just long acting spells.
Alchemical items such as Anti-Toxen, Anti-plague, Stillgut to boost Saves for an hour (maybe extras in case you need them longer than an hour). Liquid Blade for an instant short sword - or two if you are a two weapon fighter. Smokesticks, smokebombs and so many other things...
Improvised Weapons (hit them with the chair!) can be your friend.
are these the kind of things you are looking for?
or more expensive?
like a Bracelet of Friends (19K, less for one with fewer than 4 charms) - have the fighter not even go into the meeting, they can remain anywhere else (back at the Inn? in the next country? a world away?), armed, armored and with weapons drawn, awaiting the call. Then, if things in the meeting get all sharp and pointy, the Talker just "calls" in the cavalry.
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.
When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.
Chirugeon. Im not sure why they of all things fixed that archetype but Chirugeon. Am I going to debate how they fixed it as being incredibly odd? No.
I missed this change. Do you mean chirurgeon? The Alchemist Archetype? What happened to Chirurgeon?
a 3nd level wizard (transmuter) can out produce an Alchemist?
This spell would allow a wizard to produce Thunderstones with his 2nd level spell DCs (likely to be better than DC15). Or Alchemist Fires (DC 15 again), or Tanglefoot bags (DC 15) or ...so much stuff.
School: transmutation
Level: alchemist 2, bard 2, druid 2, inquisitor 3, occultist 3, ranger 3, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Components: V, S, M (alchemical reagents or herbs worth 1 gp)
Range: touch
Targets: 1 object touched
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object)
Spell Resistance: no
You cast this spell as you draw out a consumable alchemical item to use. The object must be an alchemical item, but not a dose of disease, a poison, a magic potion, or another type of consumable item. The item divides itself into two nearly identical copies and the newly separated one is delivered into your hand. The new item functions as the original in all ways except the copied item suffers a slight reduction in quality. Saves against the new alchemical item's affects use the original item's save DC or the save DC of this spell, whichever is higher.
Ok,... How does this spell work? Am I missing something here? Duration is instantaneous, so it creates a duplicate of an Alchemical item. Often with a better save.
So... Say Al the Alchemist wants to use a 2nd level extract of full pouch to create an extra tanglefoot bag. He reaching for his existing 'bag and ... Casts this extract? Creating a copy which he then puts on the table in front of him. Does he have two tanglefoot bags? One with a different DC?
Can he do this again? And again (if he has the 2nd level extracts to do this)? Until he has a dozen tanglefoot bags on the table?
You essentially pay 1/3 the price, assuming you make the Craft DC.
You may Take 10, but not 20.
It's one check per item crafted, but since most people succeed when taking 10, it's usually a non-issue. Unless you're low level and not built to maximize that check just yet.
If there are any material components (I'm not aware of any for Alchemical items), then you'd need to factor that into the price you pay.
Other people cannot pay you, but you can hand out crafted items for others to consume during that scenario.
The bolded statement is not EXACTLY true - though likely it is "good enough" for PFS....
from the Crafting Skill:
To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps.
1. Find the item's price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp).
2. Find the item's DC from Table: Craft Skills.
3. Pay 1/3 of the item's price for the raw material cost.
4. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you've completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn't equal the price, then it represents the progress you've made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces.
If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again.
so it is possible that it might take more than one roll (and more than one week) to craft an item...
(and you really should check with your judge, as it is possible that they will not let you Take 10 on this skill check - in case they "want to control the pacing and tension " )
I realize that they don't have spells... but Alchemists actually have to prep their Extracts every day - even if they didn't use them.
When an alchemist mixes an extract, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist's possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below). An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day. Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work—most alchemists prepare many extracts at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it's not uncommon for an alchemist to keep some (or even all) of his daily extract slots open so that he can prepare extracts in the field as needed.
But as it only takes them a minute of work to prep an extract (and this can be done at any time during the day) this is really a bit of a non issue...
As interesting as this diversion is, could we get back to the topic of the thread? More specifically, there's a number of people who prefer to be generous with their consumables, without having any assumption of other players paying them back. Are these people opposed to the proposed rule on any grounds other than their personal preference for play style?
Feel free to disagree with me, but saying "I prefer to be generous and not have the expectation of players to pay me back, therefore this rule shouldn't be introduced" is basically the same as saying "I prefer to play in purely martial parties, therefore all casters should be banned".
I have no problem if you prefer to be generous, but if people are allowed to pay you back you are still capable of declining their generous offer with a friendly "The offer is appreciated, but there is no need to repay me, your thanks and your continued survival is all the payment I need". As it currently stands there is no option for those who prefer a different play style.
...
actually, under the current system, several times before going into a 'crawl, when I hand out several alchemical buffers (like Anti-toxin) and tell PCs to use them, some players will say "I'll go ahead and use mine if you think we need to. That way it's not costing you ..." to which I reply - "I make mine, so they cost 1/3 what yours cost. Lets go ahead and you save yours for when I'm not around and use my cheaper one now."
(The following is the pessimist in me coming out - seeing the potential bad parts of such a change).
I also realize that there are people in this game who feel that everything players can do in game should be splint into "Prohibited" & "Required" categories. "If it's not Required, then we need to Prohibit it." Sometimes I call them Type 1 gamers.
I often run alchemists who hand out LOTS of consumables. It's kind of a trademark of mine. I've even printed up cards (business card size) of several different types to hand out to other players. For example, my current "Crawl Pack" has a vial of Anti-Toxin, Anti-Plague, Sooth Syrup, Stillgut, as well as a pot of Alchemical Grease and a dose of Vermin Repellent. Each item has a couple lines discribing it's effects and a check box. After the game, I collect back the cards and mark off anything used... The total pack would cost 185gp, but as I'm an alchemist able to craft all that (DC25 for the hardest), I craft the entire pack at one third cost.
Players that game with me have started calling them "party favors". Players give me the cards back at games end and that way I have a list of what got used. (I've even encountered other players doing the same thing! Talk about a complement!)
Just before starting a "crawl", I'll often (in Character) instruct everyone to pull the "crawl pack" (not the grenade pack, the other card) and "drink the first three, and smear the last two over your body, put the 4th in a spring wrist sheath." This leads to the expected comments about "lube" and "oiling up" etc. Sometimes, when fighting a monster my Alchemist (who just made a Knowledge check) will yell something like "The Blue Bottle from the Grenade Pack! Hit it with the Blue Bottle T.S.!"
Every now and again, it means I get to point out "hay T.S., did you count the +5 alchemical bonus on that save?"... Sometimes it saves lives, or keeps someone in the fight...
(And I get to call everyone by the same first name..."T.S., for Test Subject") -
This is a fun thing that I like to do for my party - and it allows me to "Buff" in a unique way...
But I can see a New Rule that would REQUIRE the other players to re-pay me for my items - at the full cost to them. Even if it isn't written in the rules, I can see some judges requiring it (after all, what isn't prohibited is compulsory). Yeah, that's going to be fun....(sorry about the sarcasm)
Should we be allowed to replace something someone used for us? Yeah, that would be nice. I just fear it becoming REQUIRED (even if it's just required by "social pressure" from the group).
I am currently working the Season 6 sheet for this - and I don't have the Season 7 handy... so going from that, this is what I see.
#1 can be done with money (Buy something? Ah... what PC doesn't buy stuff?)
#2 Recruit someone - Diplomacy or Profession (Merchant) check... which can actually be done untrained. It's NOT EASY, and you may have a slim chance, but ... Buy a MW tool, take you shirt re-roll, do it early when you're low level (lower DC) put some effort into it (like we would for anything else in the game)...
#3 & #4 might take spending PP to get a non-standard Day Job roll. How many people use a skill other than Craft/Profession/Perform on day job checks? and getting two of the others nets you a +5 on this roll (and heck, buy MW tools for the skill, and maybe a cracked IOUN Stone @200gp)
#5 Adventure in one of 4 cities. Check the advertising blurbs on scenarios and find one set in one of the 4 cities... This one isn't even a skill check, you just have to go someplace. If we put a little thought into it - heck ask your local Coordinator to schedule something set in one of the locations for you.
#6 "Resolve a combat encounter nonviolently through diplomacy, trickery, bribery, or a similar tactic." - I guess this might be hard for some players. But... I'm not even going to bother. If your party (collectively) avoided a combat you didn't even have to roll anything, just don't shot the guy you are sneaking around...
#7 "Acquire a merchant's license in a city..." - this one is a combination of #5 (be sure to play games set in large cities?) and #2 with the skills Appraise rather than Diplomacy (or Profession (merchant)). And it costs some money (25gp per character level)... but it saves you money then too (on mundane items).
Now... it looks to me like #1, #5, and #6 are the simplest to do. Two of these make #3 & #4 easier. That leaves #2 & #7 which the player will likely need Profession (merchant) for - or to get lucky on a Diplomacy/Appraise roll.
Can these be "Faction Goals for the less scrupulous entrepreneur"? yeah, I think so. That part (the "less scrupulous") is the Role Playing part... the fun part.
You know, I read thru the posts here and I'm not sure I actually noticed what everyone seems to be encountering...
I run a lot of Exchange Faction PCs. Maybe half of my PCs are in this faction (easy motivation to adventure - "it's all about the money").
So - let me look at the last (season 7) game I played with an Exchange PC. (He is still working on his Season 6 card...)
We got sent to Goka (so that's one box I could check...), to do the job.- Check
We're posing as smugglers - and I pointed out to the rest of the party that we should check in with the local "Thieves Guild" or "Smugglers Guild" to make contacts... ("...Acquire a merchant's license in a city other than Absalom..." - hay, a Smugglers Guild license is sort of a Merchant's license right?) check.
While in the city - as part of our "cover" we "sold" several smuggled items - and I picked up some items on the black market - "...purchase or sell and item worth at least 100 gp/character level" - check.
"Recruit a named NPC merchant, trader, smuggler, or..." (this would be hard for my PC with his -5 mod for CHA skills, but I COULD have tried it, and heck, we were talking to a local Fence/Smuggler, the perfect recruit to link into our "family business")- check.
While moving across the city we needed to slip past check-points ("...Resolve a combat encounter nonviolently through diplomacy, trickery, bribery, or a similar tactic." We actually use several of those options) - check.
This leaves two lines for earning money thru day job checks (50gp and 100gp respectively) and all the lines are covered in this one scenario. And this depends on how you build the PC... what's your day job?
OH! and the mission was a Kidnapping (Grab the target and smuggle them out of the city)...
My problem was not being able to check off a faction goal - it was that I can only check off ONE. I did six or seven (and some of those more than once).
Wow... talk about "Faction Goals for the less scrupulous entrepreneur".
I've never gotten alignment, and would never dream of asking for such a "crunchy" detail, but type when it is not obvious from the name of the creature is something I do expect to get.
eyup. For a diplomat its a pretty important piece of information I wouldn't USE the word alignment but...
But alignment is one of those things that is only representative of the average member of the species. IOW the average hobgoblin is LE but just by looking at the one trying to bash your head in how do you know this particular one isn't N?
but that can be said about almost anything to do with what knowledge skills return to you...
Try it like this "But Energy Resistance is one of those things that is only representative of the average member of the species. IOW the average Tiefling is resistant to Cold, Electricity and Fire but just by looking at the one trying to bash your head in how do you know this particular one doesn't have the Scaled Skin racial trait that replaces most of its' fiendish resistance? So this one is resistant only to Cold - and due to the deity it worships has Resistance Acid added on. SO, unlike most of it's kind, this Tiefling is resistant to Cold and Acid... not Fire and Electricity."
About three years ago, the organized play campaign retired the Lantern Lodge as a playable faction, and it's certainly easy to assume that the Lantern Lodge itself (an estate in Goka) just faded into obscurity. In fact, the faction retired largely because it had fulfilled its goals of achieving recognition and resources for the Society's exploration of Tian Xia. I like to revisit the continent several times a season, and this month we're doing something a little different. Rather than just letting the players know that Venture-Captain Amara Li is still in charge of a thriving lodge, this time the PCs are working for her directly to hunt down an Aspis Consortium aggressor. What's more, this adventure has special metaplot opportunities for former members of the Lantern Lodge faction.
This is exciting, but very disappointing. In the three years since Amara Li completing her goals, my "Lantern Lodge" PC has now graduated past 7th level, even only playing occasionally and on slow track.
So John, is there a legal way to backdate a PC so we can play it in this adventure or can we transfer any boons we receive from the PC that plays The Deepmarket Deception to a former Lantern Lodge PC?
wow... my former LL PC is only 5th? maybe 6th now... not played much sense the end of Lantern Lodge...
When I have my Cryptbrakers Draught going I have Light Blindness - so sudden exposure to bright lights blinds me (for a round) and Dazzles me for the encounter. I have had a fellow player pop a daylight spell on me without warning... at the start of an encounter... That would almost be PVP (blinding another PC at the start of a round)... but I figure the guy was just a twit.
Also available as darts sling bullets shiurken etc
+2 to attack and damage against the creature if you have scent... like say a druid and their pet. Buy them and hand them out to the archers.
I always picture them as BBQ sauce flavored.
How as sling bullets?
In Alchemy Manual (pg 20) it says you "...can infuse other ammunition and thrown weapons that deal piercing damage)...". Sling bullets don't do piercing right? so they can't be "Pheromone XXX"...
But oddly enough, Javelins/Darts can be? go figure... not sure how this is going to work. ("I pull the Javelin out and re-use it... does the Pheromone property still work?"?
Works great for a Crypt Braker Alchemist (who get's Scent that lasts 10 minutes per level from his sorta Mutagen. And can make the items at 1/3 cost).
I can see having another player point out that we had forgot about the disease - only to have someone else (me perhaps) jump in with:
"Hay! I'm a Chirurgeon (Alchemist) - I totally got this guys! I'll take 10 on the Heal check, and use a Healers kit for a +2, and maybe I can get in an Anti-Plague that I crafted two games back for ... ah... 31. Yeah, a 31. Does he improve?"
Gives me a chance to show off some.
;-)
Edit to add:(Unless the judge is a School #1 type and says something like "You forgot to bring it up 10 minutes ago, so you guys didn't notice the disease set in and missed the chance to treat it! Gotcha!")
And yet I *still* cant find anyone at the table with disable device!
>:-(
I find this funny, cause at a recent game I was playing my (Crypt Braker) alchemist at, about the only PC not trained in Disable Device was the rogue. The Archer fighter and the Wizard both had it as a class skill (from diffferent traits),
I could see "speed running" it with a pair Alchemist - perhaps with Acid flasks in addition to thier bombs. Open a door, two well placed flasks which do 5 or 6 damage splash... just don't roll any 1s...
I was thinking of buying this and running it for some friends of mine. There will be five PCs. Only one of them plays pathfinder regularly. The other four have only played the last two times I ran something for them, the first being First Steps In Service to Lore and the second being The Frozen Fingers of Midnight.
Everyone will be level 1. How long would it take to run through? I've also read differing opinions on how "deadly" it is, is that something I should worry about?
'cause it seems some people missed this the first time thru...
For the most part the party seems to have done First Steps and Frozen Fingers of Midnight.... so are likely to each have about 4PP and about 1K in gear.
I have started several of my PCs with this path... though we normally have one or two players with 2nd level PCs. It often works great! (very dependant on PC Classes in the party - a CryptBraker Alchemist or more than one Positive Channel focused PC makes it much easier for the players).
potion of reduce person (or scroll) to boost your stealth skills... +4 Size bonuse to stealth, and +2 to Dex (which should bump stealth another point).
As a Crypt Braker Alchemist, I'll often use it to give me that 1 extra point of bump to disarm a trap. Took 10 and failed to disarm the trap? but didn't set it off? So you missed by just a little bit. Add in some aid from another PC (+2), a +1 for guidance from the cleric, and the +1 to the dex bump for reduce person? Even better when the reduce person is an extract! (and very useful in combat - effectively a +2 to hit with bombs and +2 on AC...)
ah... Crypt Braker Alchemist? his sorta Mutigen gives him Darkvision or Low-light vision or scent at 10 minutes per level... so he get's it at 1st level
Jarl Rukk, Linnorm-Slayer, is considering establishing a lodge in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings.
A lodge high in the Kodar Mountains would probably be the best fit. His orcish heritage would help with relations with the Belkzen orcs on the border, and the constant threat of death from the native monsters would prevent him from ever growing soft.
I would think "growing soft" would be directly related to how long the monster chews on him, wouldn't it?
