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It's worth mentioning that brains continue to develop after birth and change in microscopic ways every day.

It's entirely possible that these "malelike" and "femalelike" traits they observed are either A) based on cultural preconceptions, and/or B) a result of the brain adapting to the environment (culture influencing the brain in ways that the brain perceives as "what is necessary to survive/succeed").

I personally tend to play mostly male characters and their sexuality depends on the group. My characters will either be "uninterested in anybody, to avoid rustling any jimmies" or openly gay/bi, if the group is accepting of that sort of thing. I sometimes play female characters and whenever I do, their sexuality is often one of the last things I nail down (and often remains ambiguous).

Whenever I do an openly gay/bi character, he tends to have some sort of "ex-boyfriend he never got over" or "impossible guy he quietly pines over" in his backstory to assuage the straight dudes that my character won't be hitting on theirs. And now I'm realising that I tend to make that NPC be in another country (or at least city) so that it's unlikely the backstory will ever be resolved.

It's certainly interesting how one tends to subconsciously accommodate for straight people. I've never heard of someone playing an openly gay/bi character who actually has an "on-screen" same-sex romance, unless it's a mostly-LGBTQ+ group. Most of my fellow LGBTQ+ gamers either don't play gay/bi characters at all or just do similar things to what I outlined. :-/

The Minis Maniac wrote:

So I have a really really scary awkward situation at work. So a woman at work whom I have major difficulties with basically said in the staff room that her husband pushed her up against the wall in a verbal argument. Apparently the mans father just passed away and he has gotten uncontrollably angry with her and their kids. Putting hands on your spouse is just plain not okay in my books. And if this is what she is admitting too what else could be going on. What should I do. This woman is super irritable to me and not generally nice to me, but I don't think I have it in me to not say or do something.......

Edit: I know this isn't LGBT specifically, but I am part of the LGBT community and this is a safe place.

You really don't want to get involved personally, as the risk of violence escalating towards you, especially as part of the LGBT community, is a very real risk.

I would advise you to find a list of numbers for places that specialise in counselling victims of domestic violence and then anonymously emailing that to her or printing it and leaving it somewhere only she will find (and won't be revealed to the public).

Freehold DM wrote:
this is often the only language companies understand. It is also the language of history- and an all too often quiet one at that. One never knows the effect a movement has had until they look at the effect it had on economic culture.

While economy is an effective and powerful tool, it's not the be-all, end-all means to achieve an end. It's likely the easiest to succeed at, surely, and the most effective, perhaps. But it's hardly the only thing that brings in results.

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Has anyone changed their buying patterns because of this sort of encounter?

This is a very "corporate" question. It sounds like you're less interested in treating the trans* customer right and more interested in making sure you don't lose sales because of that.

I think this is one of those cases where you should step back from the numbers and prioritise the human element. :)

Yuugasa wrote:

I prefer to consider people on an individual basis rather than pass blanket judgments over the entire human species. :P

thejeff wrote:
I suppose. In that case, your post seems really out of left field. :)

Well, this is what I was getting at:

Krensky wrote:
Point of order, I said it seems reasonable that a correlation between ADHD and being male could exist. Not that it does. That would require proper research. And even then, as the pirate and global warming reference was meant to imply, it doesn't necessarily mean the two are connected at all.

But I was going about it in a more general and philosophical way. I generally find that being prudent and detached when it comes to scientific findings is the best approach.

thejeff wrote:

In my case though, I find that "molecules randomly colliding in the vacuum of space" can develop culture, art and technology to be damn inspiring, not nihilistic at all.

"There is a grandeur in this view of life."

I completely agree, that's why I adopt that view and embrace it wholeheartedly. There is beauty in chaos and randomness, but people spend too much time trying to decipher the rules that "govern" the chaos in an attempt to tame it because it makes them feel safer.

Then again, I consider myself Chaotically-aligned, so that may be my bias showing. :P

thejeff wrote:

I don't think that's what biological determinism is. As I understand it, in this context, it likely translates into people being born gay or straight or bi or cis or trans. That such things aren't chosen or the result of your culture or upbringing.

Strictly speaking, it's that all human behavior is biologically driven, which is much more arguable, though I suspect it's closer than we like to think. But applied loosely, to specific things, there is a lot of evidence.

But, near as I can tell, it's got nothing to do with "divergent evolution, genetic plasticity, evolutionary "dead ends" and so on". Or intelligent design, for that matter.

People have different ideas of what biological determinism means, and I'm addressing all of them.

In general, people become too emotionally attached to certain interpretations of the universe and how reality works because they cannot deal with uncertainty. The idea that we're simply molecules randomly colliding in the vacuum of space is too nihilistic for a lot of people to accept, so they cling to apophenia as a coping mechanism.

They see patterns and correlations beyond what the evidence supports and defend them because they are emotionally attached.

I think, in general, that there is far too many people willing to believe in biological determinism even when there is no evidence for such a thing being true in the first place. If biological determinism was a thing at all, we wouldn't have divergent evolution, genetic plasticity, evolutionary "dead ends" and so on.

The idea that biology is somehow "guided" by some sort of hyperlogical, Darwinistic, intelligent design feels very much like a modern-day religion. I mean, I don't blame them, people who reject formal religion often forget that faith is a psychological need like any other, because it helps people cope with the reality of their lives or the events that happen in the world. So they instead place their faith in science and create dogmas where there is no need for them to exist, while not acknowledging that they're doing so.

As a scientist, it's often exhausting hearing people talk about science in such confident and absolute terms, particularly on speculative fields like evolution and why X or Y condition exists.

Basically, what I mean to say (as Sissyl more eloquently put it), is that the correlation may not be "more likely to be LGBTQ+" but "more likely to admit to being LGBTQ+."

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One thing to keep in mind when it comes to studies relating LGBTQ+ folk and X or Y subject: those are only the self-identifying LGBTQ+ folk. There are an unknowable number of LGBTQ+ folk out there who, for their own individual reasons, have chosen not to identify with any label other than "straight" and "cis".

As for the other bit, it's also entirely possible that neurodivergent people feel more comfortable accepting themselves for who they are. Neurotypical people would have no event that forces them to acknowledge that they are different from the rest, so they would find it easier to deny or hide their sexual orientation (or even, perhaps, their gender identity) if it diverged from the norm.

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Sorry to hear that, Doomkitten. :(

For what it's worth, one strategy I've encountered for dealing with the whole "it's just a phase" thing is to milk it for all its worth. I'm not exactly sure what would be liberating for you, but for other trans* people I've met it was things like putting on make-up, changing their outfits to be more "them" and the like. Basically, just start experimenting with things you were too afraid to try out before now. If they walk in on you trying out different lipsticks or whatever, they'll just sigh and roll their eyes because "it's just a phase."

In the meantime, you are using that time to learn more about yourself without stressing out or having to hide things.

Getting your mom's boyfriend to shift gears from "it's just a phase" to "My girlfriend has a trans* kid" is the harder part, but all the time you'll spend figuring out what works for you and what doesn't, is going to give you the confidence to say "This is who I am." It's not going to be easy, but sometimes in life it pays to make the most out of a less than ideal situation.

If he's not accepting this right off the bat, don't waste your time trying to convince him. Go and do all the things you were afraid of doing. You did a really brave thing. Make it count. :)

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I am so glad to hear it worked out, Rosita! Sometimes good things happen just as unexpectedly as bad things.

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And that's one of the main reasons I don't really play any roleplaying games unless it's with longtime friends who respect that sort of thing and aren't clueless (and which are also extremely rare).

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I think asexual settings are extremely easy to portray and actually more common than you think: most stories aimed at minors tend to err on the side of asexuality (or nonsexual romances). The main problem is that there is an illogical habit in media to equate "for grownups" with "must contain sex, violence and/or 'edginess'". It's rather easy to incorporate asexuality in settings, especially the magical fantasy settings we all know and love. You can have asexuality be the default sexual orientation, and have people reproduce via rituals. You don't even need female pregnancy either, as I'm sure we can all imagine a druidic ritual that grows a baby inside an oak tree, or an elemental ritual that allows someone to birth another being from a sufficiently large concentration of a given element.

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Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

I feel I'm missing something. Has Paizo introduced another LGBT+ character? What's this thread you guys are mentioning?

mechaPoet wrote:
people won't be talking about using it for weird forced body alteration on infants to match up with hetero- and cisnormative medieval inheritance politics.

Not that this should ever be a thing at all, considering there are literally no sex or gender-based mechanical differences in D&D (or PF, for that matter), and therefore, statistically speaking, all sex and genders display the same capacity for any societal role.

Very good change to the elixir, though. Kudos to that!

thejeff wrote:

Part of it of course is simply the odds. There's a lot more straight guys out there than gay ones. If I'm a straight guy and 5 out of 5 women I hit on are gay, I'm doing something wrong. If you're a gay guy and 5 out of 5 guys you hit on are straight, that's really pretty likely.

I honestly only consider that to be relevant during teenage years. Once you're an adult, you have entire venues of potential ways of meeting people who are of a compatible sexual orientation. And most people by that point are able to read body language and pick up on cues that denote attraction, so they're able to find people who find them attractive even outside those venues.

Arcane Addict wrote:

There is a slight chance you're misinterpreting me. I don't 'target' straight guys. Its just unfortunate coincidence that it keeps happening. So... No fetish. I do want them to be gay! It wouldn't diminish the attraction at all if they are. Its just that they aren't -_-...

There is also a slight chance I'm misinterpreting you! In that case, sorry :/ Please clarify if this is the case!
I diagnosed myself with a condition I made up called Internet Communication Anxiety causing me to doubt whether either or both parties accurately understand one another in turn causing annoying requests for clarification ad nauseum. I think its a real thing. Watch it show up in the DSM some day!

Possible misinterpretation aside, I do think you're right in a general sense (which you DID allude to, I'll admit). I don't really agree on the synonym-bit but I cannot yet put my finger on why so obviously I cannot articulate my grievance with it. It might be a reactionary response. I hope to get back to you on that. I might just get over it or forget about it before that happens though...

Oh, my bad. Well, to be fair, I've known of several cases where people are genuinely like "it'd be a turn-off if he was gay", which makes me go "????? how does that even work????", so at this point nothing surprises me.

Don't worry, I just like to go on about things I rarely see brought up, feel free to ignore me and move on. xP

Arcane Addict wrote:

I completely understand that! Even if it is torture I cannot help but think its funny. Sort of. A little. Yeah, no, its torture. I'm going to go with torture. Mildly funny torture.

Its just that I don't like the effeminate, flamboyant types I can recognize easily. I like 'regular' guys and I just don't recognize if they are gay or not, information I kind of need in order to have the courage to approach a stranger with romantic intentions. I realize there are plenty of options to find these guys where that particular barrier is removed but they all pose a different barrier to me: I loathe them. Sooo... I get drunk instead.

It's not you, really, I think our community in general fetishises straightness, which is why I roll my eyes at it. It's a bit frustrating too, that we can't escape the hegemony of heterosexuality even in our own community.

I don't think we'd have this issue if stereotypes weren't pushed onto us (and were reinforced by the community itself). It'd be good if "regular guys" wasn't exclusively a synonym for "straight guys".

Hi, Arcane Addict! Hope you feel welcome!

Arcane Addict wrote:
I suffer from a curse. I'm almost always attracted to straight guys.

My best friend is just like that, and so is one of my online friends. They've provided endless material for my eye-rolling practice. :P

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Like I said, it's about normalcy (or the illusion thereof). Raise people into thinking a behaviour is normal, and you can ensure that behaviour will be perpetuated and normalised in a self-reinforcing cycle. That's why our battle as LGBT folk is to challenge that perception of normalcy, and highlight that it's just one of the myriad possibilities for normalcy.

That unfortunately does tend to make people react very emotionally, as shaking up their perceptions tends to evoke irrational reactions. So tread with care.

We also don't really know the status on Lito's parents. They might both live, presumably back in Spain. We also don't know the status on Nomi's father. He might be dead, considering he didn't show up to visit Nomi at the hospital.

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Kala and Capheus still have living mothers. It's pretty important in Capheus's story, actually.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
That's possible...except I don't think Felix knew he had it, and his family certainly did it, which just reinforces him having acquired it without his family at least.

That is still potentially a Felix contact, though.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Time. Picking a lock takes longer than using a key. They almost ran out of time as it was, after all.

Point taken.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
But Wolfgang was the one who was obsessed with the safe itself. I think the plan was definitely a group effort, but it certainly shows Wolfgang as capable of subtlety.

Yeah, I don't think he's incapable of subtlety, he just seems to be a direct kind of guy.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Sure. Imminent death will do that, regardless of the intimidation skills of the people involved.

I think it takes a certain degree of intimidation to convince someone you have what it takes to pull the trigger. That's pretty much what Wolfgang was summoned to do in the finale.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
See, I disagree. Anyone can be intimidating from a position of power. I mean, think about it, when they've got a gun on you, almost anyone is scary. Where skill comes in is if the situation isn't that one-sided, where they're the underdog and they look at you and deliver a threat and you believe them about their ability to carry it out despite them being the underdog. That takes skill...and it appears to be a skill Wolfgang is mediocre at at best.

I think he has the fearlessness and ruthlessness to convey to people that he means it when he says he's going to do something. That may not be the "manipulative" or "clever" type of intimidation you might see from someone with a keen insight on people's minds, but it's still a valid form of intimidation.

zylphryx wrote:
Wolfgang obviously has a great freaking bluff skill. One does not kill one's father and keep it hidden from the family for years without a hellishly good bluff skill.

I actually think his family just has no ranks in Sense Motive at all, and no positive Wisdom scores. We've seen him lie to his family, and all he does is just play dumb. Considering that in the end, they don't believe him, he doesn't really have that much of a Bluff skill in the first place.

The bit about the father is probably a result of his family not even suspecting him for a second, and Wolfgang being clever enough to provide them with an easy answer ("he got caught trying to crack an S&D safe").

zylphryx wrote:
As far as intimidate goes, it's not of the "battle cry" version, but more of the "that's all you got" version, as he can take a hit and makes sure he is theastnone standing.

Yeah, that's also related to what I mean.

zylphryx wrote:

He also has a hell of a DR score, which he can pass on to the others, as wintnessed by the fight he stepped into on behalf of Lito. Taking a solid hit to the face and no flinching is not something most folks could do.

He certainly has a high disable device skill by cracking a safe manually that his father (who presumably was quite skilled) failed to do.

Anyway, just some inebriated possible insights ... ;)

Definitely agreeing with that.

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Jessica Price wrote:

Interesting look inside an anti-LGBT rights religious planning conference.

It's pretty blatant about the "flip the script" tactic of calling LGBT activists and allies "bullies" to give moral cover to attempts to harass and discriminate against them.

This is inevitable. Dominant organisations get used to defining what is normal, and when such normality is challenged, they feel victimised. For them, the way things were done was Right and Normal, and these attempts to change the status quo are a cruel offence to them.

Things will change, in time, as new forms of normality displace the old ones.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Then where'd he get the rocket launcher? I mean...Felix wasn't available to help with that, it's not exactly an easy item to acquire, and his family didn't seem to know about it.]

Figured he already had it. That's usually not the sort of thing you can get on a short notice. The fact that he knew how to fire it accurately indicates he had at least cursory practise with it.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Uh, his key-making business is otherwise known as 'being a locksmith'...the profession that also teaches you how to pick locks (Remember the woman he slept with? She called him because she locked her keys in her car). Nomi's definitely better at the software parts of electronic security, but as he displayed in the diamond heist, he's no slouch at physically disabling such systems. And he seems quite physically sneaky when he wants to. Re-watch the heist and compare how he stole the diamonds with how his cousin was going to. Wolfgang's version is pure finesse, while his cousin takes the thuggish route.

Yeah, I suppose he can pick locks, now that you mention it. Strange why they bothered making a key for the diamond heist instead of picking the lock, though.

As for the bit about finesse, one has to wonder how much of that was Felix's idea. In the funeral, he's the one that relishes in the idea of defeating the cousin, he was the one that made the key and had the fencing contacts for the diamonds, so the plan might've been his doing.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
The thing about that is that literally nobody is ever actually scared of Wolfgang. They certainly should be, but they aren't. Playing chicken, as he does in the finale, is far more about being fearless and willing to die than it is intimidation, and aside from that he never successfully intimidates anyone...leading me to believe he's bad at it.

I think his uncle was pretty scared in the finale.

The reason Wolfgang doesn't intimidate anybody before that is that in order to intimidate, you must be in a position of power over the other person. Since Wolfgang's story is "the underdog", he's usually not in a position to intimidate anyone.

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GreyWolfLord wrote:
[...] the fact that I CAN practice my faith and religious ideals with out being charged with a crime or sent to jail is sancrosanct to me.

I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of crimes are not seen as crimes if they have a religious component behind them. If I go out and start shouting in the middle of the street, I might get charged with disturbing the peace or loitering (or whatever crime people get charged with when they make loud noises). However, if I'm shouting about religion, I get a free pass because of religious freedom. Similarly, people are allowed to harass strangers in the street or their homes if there's a religious reason behind it, and people are allowed to violate discrimination laws if they can justify it with religion.

An interesting exercise to do in one's daily life is to look at an overt display of religiousness and ask oneself "if I substitute this person's speech/writings with non-religious content, would this be a crime or a violation of social mores?" It's surprising how many times you answer "yes" to that. A lot of problems could easily be avoided if society was less inclined to allow religion to excuse certain behaviours.

Freehold DM wrote:
Odd. I was a scout for many years and I didn't know a single troop that WASN'T part and parcel of a church's youth group. Same for girl scouts. Hmm...

I don't think it's possible for a scout troop (boys or girls) to be outside of a church's influence unless actively fought for. I highly doubt most churches would pass on the opportunity to expand their sphere of influence into that age range.

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Uh...Wolfgang is also one of the world's best safecrackers and generally has all the skills and connections one would expect a professional criminal to possess. Will's criminal skills are limited to picking handcuffs. And, indeed, thief-type skills are something nobody else in the Cluster possesses at all outside Nomi's very specialized hacking skill-set. So...he definitely brings that to the table.

Contrariwise, Will is a lot better at interpersonal interaction in general which might well be relevant if Lito is unavailable. Really, Wolfgang isn't even great at intimidation; he doesn't tend to seem especially scary until people start dying. He's charming enough, but a bit too blunt and/or quiet to be really persuasive when the chips are down.

I know Wolfgang can crack safes (I bet that's going to be a plot point in the show at least once), but I don't think he has that many connections anymore. Felix seems to be his main go-to guy for fencing and the like, and other connections might have depended on his family. He probably has a few connections of his own, but not that many. He doesn't seem to have the traditional skills of a thief. He apparently relies on his key-making business rather than on lock-picking, Nomi probably knows more than him when it comes to bypassing security, and he doesn't seem to be type of guy who gets into air vents or dangles outside buildings. He's more of a thug than a thief, really.

I do consider Wolfgang to be a good intimidator, actually. His ruthlessness and fearless bravado can make him very good at convincing people he has no problem hurting them to get what he wants (which is the talent Will invoked from him in episode 12). I wouldn't consider him charming, I think he has average social skills and exceptionally good looks, so he's used to letting his looks carry most of his social interactions.

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GreyWolfLord wrote:
I disagree with that particular stance and find it reprehensible.

As a foreigner, I have no knowledge of the BSA beyond the basics, but in general, I find it morally worrisome to allow an organisation to use money to buy compliance to their mores or cultural tenets outside their legally-defined sphere of influence.

I find it highly troubling if I see an organisation (not just a church, but churches are the most likely to bother investing money into that) using their "support" to push their agenda outside their buildings and usual forums.

This wouldn't be an issue if we were more strict about denying organisations the ability to expand their sphere of influence by puppeteering other organisations through their financial support.

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Bob_Loblaw wrote:
He declined saying that it's either his friend/lab partner or not at all. They decided to not take his picture. I haven't forgotten that small gesture.

That's wonderful. I am absolutely amazed by the kindness people can sometimes show.

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That is so cool! Well done, Bob. I really wish more people did that for total strangers.

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To my understanding, a Hate Crime is not a legal definition of a crime in itself, it's an aggravating qualifier added to another crime. So in order for something to be a Hate Crime, it must already be a crime in and of itself, so if I hear that someone burnt a flag and it was considered a Hate Crime, clearly it must have been someone else's flag (because burning other people's property is a crime), or the burning must have been considered a fire hazard, and therefore punishable by law.

In both those cases, the action is already a crime, and the fact that it's a Pride flag and burnt with anti-LGBT sentiment is what makes it a Hate Crime.

Perhaps, though I also know that one of the main criticisms that was levied at the show was the extensive time it took for the plot to pick up in the first season, so the Wachowskis may feel compelled to tighten things up a bit, perhaps.

It's probably both a good and a bad thing, and both Yrsa and Jonas are right. Whispers will probably try to use it against them and might get some victories out of it, but the Sensates will probably find a way to also use it as a source of strength.

I don't think it'll be purely one thing or the other.

All this Jonas talk has inspired rampant speculation on my part.

We know that if the Wachowskis get their way, the show will last 5 seasons. This is my prediction for the next three:

S2: The focus is on taking down Whispers. The Sensates think that doing so will put an end to EvilCorp. Jonas drops some ominous lines about how things may not be as easy as they seem. Season finale, they lure Whispers into a trap and take him out. It's revealed Whispers wasn't the leader of EvilCorp, but the top field agent.

S3: The focus is on finally taking out EvilCorp and its leader. Jonas is a more active ally, helping them out by endangering himself, etc. Season finale, they take out the leader of EvilCorp and finally dissolve the organisation. Jonas reveals this was his plan all along, and that he can now begin his Sensate supremacist plans.

S4: The focus is on taking down Jonas, who has been plotting something more global all his life. EvilCorp was about controlling the Sensates at any cost. Jonas has grandiose ideas about evolution and philosophy. Season finale: Jonas is finally taken out, perhaps at a great cost.

S5: Not sure, could go in many different directions. Jonas may survive and try to get revenge on the Sensates by going after what they love, bringing it back full circle to S1, or there might be another bad guy after Jonas (Yrsa???).

I'm reasonably confident in how things are going to develop up to the end of S4, but S5 is definitely a mystery (though they might also drag out the Jonas thing to S5 by introducing something filler-ish in S4).

Something I just thought of: what if Riley's talent is her extreme endurance? Like, what if, in D&D terms, she has a massive Will and Fort save bonus? After everything she's been through, she might have an epiphany thanks to Will's hope, where she harnesses the strength she had to summon to survive everything that's happened to her, and she can lend that strength to the others?

It would be really cool if some of the Sensates are under extreme pain (perhaps after a car crash, or torture) and Riley takes over and manages to push through the pain for them. I can definitely see her having a type of mental, emotional and physical endurance not even Wolfgang could match.

MMCJawa wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

I dunno, she seems to know too much. I guess we'll see next season.

Hey, DJs are musicians too! Riley's father made a point of explaining it as well! xD

Rynjin wrote:

There's a major, subtle but important difference between Will and Wolfgang.

Wolfgang is a stone cold killer. Will thinks like a police officer, he'll threaten to shoot you, and he'll do it if he has to, but he'll try all non-violent means first, and nonlethal means second before killing a man. He's compassionate and hesitates to take human life.

Wolfgang does not. Enemy humans are an obstacle to overcome. He's not emotionless, or a "monster" like he claims to be, he just feels very little (or even no) remorse about killing someone who needs to be killed, and he will not hesitate to do it.

Yeah, I know they're different characters, but I'm talking in terms of their skillset. They are both decent at melee fighting, decent at firearms, and good at physical intimidation. While Will has "cop instincts" that Wolfgang lacks, and Wolfgang has that "ruthlessness" that Will doesn't have, they are still fairly similar when it comes to the talents they can lend to the other Sensates.

Not to mention right now Riley doesn't seem to have a skill to lend to others (even if she's good at linking them and all the stuff people are pointing out, she doesn't have a lot to offer to the others in terms of "I need someone who can do X!").

MMCJawa wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

If that's the case, I wish we had seen more of Riley doing that.

** spoiler omitted **

As for the other part, the way I see it,

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Didn't Yrsa say that the reason she found out about Riley was because she got the file before anybody else saw it, and managed to protect her that way? And didn't Jonas also say "someone in this building is on our side, and is pretending to have a heart attack right now"? To me, that meant Yrsa was working for the company (perhaps because it's either that or get murdered), but she heavily disapproved of Whispers' methods. Not to mention she knew Jonas and what he was doing with Whispers.

If that's the case, I wish we had seen more of Riley doing that.

While she seems to be very good at connecting with the others, the show didn't do much to make her useful to the others. It also had a problem making people useful to Will, who's going around being everyone's hero (though the show does acknowledge he has a saviour complex).

As for the other part, the way I see it,

Sensates may be more common than we think, but they're usually inactive. When a sensate "gives birth", they activate a new cluster (and it doesn't really require a sacrifice, Angela's death was necessary to prevent Whispers from just getting the entire cluster right from the start).

It's probably the ultimate reason Whispers is tracking them down. He may have some sort of villainous "for the greater good" reason (imagine what might happen if Wolfgang had no conscience and superior willpower than the others, and could just forcibly take the others' skills and use them for crime, imagine if he was a terrorist, etc.).

Yrsa is IMO the most telling case. She is this wavering vaguely-neutral figure that seems to disagree with Whispers' doings, but still works for the corporation, which means she probably agrees that the Sensates must be monitored/controlled before they can just take the world by storm.

Just marathoned Sense8.

Very good, though I feel the spotlight was a bit unbalanced, in terms of usefulness. Most of the consistently useful people were Will, Wolfgang and Sun; though Lito, Kala and especially Nomi picked up a bit in the finale. Capheus felt like he was pigeonholed as "the driver" and Riley felt very helpless in general.

I liked how diverse the cast was, and how each of them got put through the grinder throughout the entire season (though I felt it was a bit excessive in Riley's case; she felt like the show's punching bag towards the end).

Sun was absolutely amazing and my favourite by far, followed closely by Nomi. Kala actually felt rather sympathetic (the actress was really good at conveying a sense of average-person-empowerment), and I wish she had been allowed to be more useful earlier on, I especially feel there was a missed opportunity for her to help out Wolfgang with Felix. Capheus felt like he could've been given more skills than just "a damn good driver and car jacker", and Wolfgang sort of lost his uniqueness as the show went on, sorta overlapping with Sun and Will (originally I thought Will was more of a firearms specialist and Sun was the melee specialist, but Will and Wolfgang sort of started blending together as "generic fighters").

I really wish Riley had been given a more obvious talent to help people out, and I think there was a missed opportunity with her (and everyone in general) in that there weren't any scenes where one character is scouting ahead/behind another. Riley could have been the character with the best eyesight and hearing of them all (especially hearing), and she could've showed up all throughout the season as a "spotter" and a scout for the others.

Overall it was an extremely good show and I am looking forward to S2.

Kryzbyn wrote:
Anyway, this show has it's own thread, if it's going to be discussed in general.

Oh neat, thanks. Heading there right away. Sorry for the thread derail!

Just marathoned Sense8.

Mild-ish spoilers below.

Very good, though I feel the spotlight was a bit unbalanced, in terms of usefulness. Most of the consistently useful people were Will, Wolfgang and Sun; though Lito, Kala and especially Nomi picked up a bit in the finale. Capheus felt like he was pigeonholed as "the driver" and Riley felt very helpless in general.

I liked how diverse the cast was, and how each of them got put through the grinder throughout the entire season (though I felt it was a bit excessive in Riley's case; she felt like the show's punching bag towards the end).

Sun was absolutely amazing and my favourite by far, followed closely by Nomi. Kala actually felt rather sympathetic (the actress was really good at conveying a sense of average-person-empowerment), and I wish she had been allowed to be more useful earlier on, I especially feel there was a missed opportunity for her to help out Wolfgang with Felix. Capheus felt like he could've been given more skills than just "a damn good driver and car jacker", and Wolfgang sort of lost his uniqueness as the show went on, sorta overlapping with Sun and Will (originally I thought Will was more of a firearms specialist and Sun was the melee specialist, but Will and Wolfgang sort of started blending together as "generic fighters").

I really wish Riley had been given a more obvious talent to help people out, and I think there was a missed opportunity with her (and everyone in general) in that there weren't any scenes where one character is scouting ahead/behind another. Riley could have been the character with the best eyesight and hearing of them all (especially hearing), and she could've showed up all throughout the season as a "spotter" and a scout for the others.

Overall it was an extremely good show and I am looking forward to S2.

34 minutes into the first episode and I'm already attached to Nomi and her girlfriend. The flashback scene to their first Pride together just won me over.

I am so easy. :-/

GreyWolfLord wrote:
Though it's terrible what happened, the very facet of there being a classification of a third gender is a fascinating item I had not heard of. According to the article, it is only Trans-women, do they also have a group for transmen, or what would they fall under?

Quick google search:

Non-Hijra Transgender Struggle For Identity

Transgender vs. Hijra Debate Hots Up

I consider that the main source of friction between the transgender vs. hijra issue does not lie with either of them, but with the refusal of the public at large to learn about trans issues. It's not that hijras are crowding out the space, it's that trans issues are afforded such little space that the public only seems to have the patience and sympathy for one group of trans people, and only if that group goes to the lengths the hijra community has gone to.

EDIT: Also, in the areas where this takes place, the gender division is not biological, it's cultural. They consider intersex people hijra or not based on their role in society. Applying a Westernised view to these affairs is probably not the way to go.

I meant rough as in "emotionally rough" (since that's what people were talking about), but I guess I was too hasty with my choice of words. :P

Wow, clearly I chose a very controversial word, because a lot of people are taking issue with it. :P

Hmmm, all this talk is getting me interested in watching the show. It sounds like it's rough at first, but should get better later on. I'll give it a try, I've been looking forward to more progressive shows to watch.

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