Santiago Mendez's page

Also remember everyone that this is just the playtest, who is to say that their wont be a way for the rogue to pick up ninja stuff in the actual book. The playtest is just supposed to give us an idea of what some of the core pieces of the book are going to be, in this case the three alternative classes, and isn't everything that is going to be within the actual product.

Remember that the APG playtest only gave us access to the six classes and didn't show us any of the variant class abilities, new feats, etc. that were in the rest of the book.

So in the end I am pretty sure that they will be giving the rogue more love in the book than in this playtest, including ways to make your rogue more ninja like and vise versa.

Has anyone gotten this PDF? I am just wondering what exactly is in it, like examples and stuff. How does the system work? Etc?

So I have a question about one of the spells in the book, Spectral Eye, it is missing its spells description.

Dark_Mistress wrote:

So is this just a collection of the 4 stand alone PDF's you have done so far?

It includes 4 of the base classes (Archon, Death Mage, Shadow Assassin, and War Master) plus the 3 books of feats (Subterfuge, Magic, Battle) and Ice and Earth Magic.

You get everything in the PDF's plus expanded info for each base class and the types of magic.

Hyrum.

When you say books of feats and list Magic, do you mean the book of Metamagic or book of Spellcasting, or both?

So far I am really liking the positive response I have received from my request for proposals.

I really do like the PFRPG community. You guys rock.

Dave

We like you too

Legora wrote:

2. When it lists "Weird Science" infusions in the class chart, is that Weird Science infusions known or how many the artificer can memorize that day or ?

Gareth-Michael Skarka answered this question on August 29, 2009 in the Tome of Secrets: Errata and Questions thread:

Gareth-Michael Skarka wrote:

The part where you're making the mistake is in thinking that the "spell list" on the table is per day -- it isn't. That table entry is labeled Weird Science Inventions -- which means that at any given time, an Artificer may only have inventions that total the number of spell effects listed.

For example: A 4th level artificer may only invent Weird Science that emulate the effects of 3 different 1st level spells, and 1 2nd level spell. Whether that is 4 different inventions, or fewer inventions combining spell effects -- that's all they get. They cannot "swap out" spells -- what they invent is all they have. They cannot "mass produce" items by cranking out Cure Light devices every 4 hours, for example. They make one, and that's it.

If a device becomes unusable, they can build another (replicating the same effect), or invent a new one (choosing a different spell effect).

They do not expend GP to do this.

Seems pretty clear and "official" to me.

This is exactly how I read it and how I always used it in my games. Thank you for that clarification.

Wow, thanks for the quick reply. :-) What I had in mind for a class was something pretty specialize... like... a mage support or something. Like the FFXI equivalent of refresh and spells that raise mage stats or cut down on spellcast time or something (based on the water element... the character is somewhat o a shaman). The problem is, I'm not sure if any of these translate well into the game. :S On top of being a mage support I would ideally be a light DD with maybe some water based damaging spells and melee capabilities with sword + kite shield (like FFXI PLD :P). I am not too worried about min-maxing (I was in FFXI) as much as I am just having a fun time with cool utility spells as well as having a unique role in the party that no one else can claim.

Oh and one more question I forgot to ask, do I make my character with my fellow players or do I make it on my own time and bring it along? Also, I have no one AT ALL to play with. None of my friends are too interesting in pen & paper RPGs, they are more about automatic gaming as opposed to manual gaming if you get my drift. I'm just looking for somehting refreshing and social.

I'm pretty young (19) and "hip", would it be hard to find a group of people that would play with someone like me? It doesn't matter to me who I play with, but they might care who I am haha.

Class wise I would recommend a druid or cleric for buffs. The ability to use weapons and shield more so cleric. Spells that help increase the spellcasting ability of other spellcasters (or your own) would be spells that buff the mental stats, INT (for Wizards, Witches, and Alchemists), WIS (for Clerics, Druids, Rangers, Paladins, and Inquisitors), and CHA (for Sorcerers, Summoners, and Oracle), which are Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom, and Eagle's Splendor respectively. They are higher level spells but they are nice ones for a little boost. There are other buff spells as well that are nice but don't really help with increasing spellcasting (besides those I already listed) or decrease spellcasting time.

It really depends on the GM, some GMs have you make it right in front of them and others allow you to bring a character (as long as it doesn't look like you cheated). But different GMs are different so you might want to wait and "make" the character there, but that doesn't mean you can't plan your character out ahead of time. Make the character as you want it and modify it as needed when you actually make the character. This is also good cause some GMs have different house rules (rules that they made up or core rules that they changed) or different ways at making characters that you can't predict.

You shouldn't have to much trouble finding someone to play with. If you have a local gaming store it should be easy to find someone there that is looking for a new player or someone who could lead you to someone else. And even if you don't just ask around at schools or colleges and you are sure to find someone if not a group of people.

I agree completely with Baijin in all aspects.

If you let us know what you want to play we can help you figure out good combinations. The classes may seem a little one sided at first but once you start to play and gain experience as a player you will start to see all of the cool combos and different things you can do with a table top pen and paper game.

I 150% agree that pen and paper games have much more freedom and customization than any MMO or video game will ever have.

There is a really good book that could give you ideas for an "evil" campaign. It is titled Villains by Necessity, it is written by the author Eve Forward. It is about a group of villains attempting to save the world by restoring evil to it after it has been overcome by the forces of good. It is a really good book (although rare to find) and I recommend it to anyone who like fantasy books.

Unless your GM is doing something non-standard with the way initiative functions, the answer to all of you examples is that nothing special happens because you already finished casting the spell at initiative count 10 on your first turn.

Compare it to a full attack: if someone makes a full attack against you, you don't get to dodge some of the attacks by moving away before their next turn.

This would be true if Summon Monster had a casting time of a Full Round Action but it doesn't its casting time is 1 round, which means it takes the full round (everyone else acting) to cast it. This would provoke the AoO when starting to cast it and then you could need to make Concentration checks every time you took damage during the round to maintain concentration till you finish casting the spell.

DeathQuaker wrote:

And certainly you can still fit them into other roles. No, an elf doesn't have a bonus to Wisdom but elves will still make excellent druids. You just need to focus on building that Wisdom another way (frex, just give the elf a low Int--it'll still be boosted by racial bonuses--and put those extra point buy points into Wisdom instead). I see the ability score adjustments as a help to making certain builds, but certainly seldom a great hindrance otherwise.

It's still pretty hard to overlook as a player. It might not sound like a hindrance, but when you've got four races that can grant you the same wisdom score without pumping down every other stat, choosing the elf just sounds like gimping yourself to me.

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I hope they do not. I have always hated the "But my elf lives on the coast land and his skin is not the same color as the core elves. So clearly I need different stats"

I don't see what's wrong with elves and the others having a little bit of freedom for their mental stat bonus, it's not as if their physiology changes. It just gives you a little more space to fit in a concept you like.

0gre wrote:

FWIW the new search works quite well.

James made some comments on this a while back.

And that pretty much answers the thread topic. Thanks.

You might as well just make it so that every race has a floating mental stat then. If at every corner you want a certain race to fit a certain class you will always want it changed. Now it is an elf druid, but next you will want the elf to have a bonus in charisma so you can play a bard. That completely nullifies the point of the races and having niches that they fill better than others. What you are asking sounds more like min/maxing rather than just character concept.

2 things :

* On all level 1 characters, how many have reached 11th level ?? How many of them didn't lose all or a major part of their gear ??

* How many of your 11th level character have exactly the gear they want to have ??

Magics Items and other stuff are a part of the game so at high levels, the Wealth vy Level is here to help players create new PCs with appropriate stuff for their level.

The new PCs are adventurers like any other PCs, they have known defeats, losses, wounds and sometimes death. They are not wealthy people who suddenly decide to visit the world with a sword in a hand and a spellbook in the other. They are not common people who won the lottery and want to change their way of life.

They are PCs, who have fought monsters, looted their lairs, had their favorite magoc items stolen by some nasty halfling thug. They may even have crafted some of their stuff. But they must stay in the GP limit given by the wealth by level table because that's the average amount of wealth a character of this level would have gained and because (nearly) doubling the wealth for some classes by just taking one (or two) feat(s) is obviously overpowered and an abuse.

When you have Item Creation Feats, you don't spend all your cash in creating magic items, because you don't have the feat at level 1 and must wait until to have it, and when you have it you are not sure to get the cash to craft, and because sometimes you loot magic items that fit you and you keep them.

You already have the advantage of having every magic item that you want to give to your character and can afford.

Wanting to use your Item Creation Feat to reduce the cost of your stuff for your new character is as much an abuse that saying that you new 11th level fighter doesn't have to include the cost of his magic longsword because they's always a magic longsword in any adventure and he would have certainly find it at no cost ...

I have had a character go from 1st to 15th before the campaign stopped because of the DM becoming ill. During that time I never once lost any of my gear I only upgraded it and I only carried gear that I wanted. Why would you carry around something that you didn't want? Anything that I got that didn't fit my concept I sold.

Besides that you are being completely contradictory to your self. You say that adventurers are not people who just get up and start because they won the lottery but you also say that they could not have created stuff during there adventuring or life before this point in time. That is just stupid. How would the person have leveled up if they didn't do anything until now?

Based on your statement if a wizard took a crafting feat, had the appropriate spells, and any other requirement needed he couldn't have made the item anytime during his 10 levels of advancement (which could have taken years to do). That is like saying that a person in real life who is a mechanic could never make/fix a car until you actively watch them, even if they are 50 years of age.

You also seem to state that you don't have the money on hand to craft during your adventures. So does that mean that the item creation feats are stupid and useless to have until your above 11th level, that is just stupid. In the past I have almost always had enough money on me to make an item I wanted (and if not I would sell something that I didn't want) no matter what level I was.

All spells cast by a divine caster from their spell list (including domain spells) are divine spells no matter what the spell was originally, the same is for arcane casters. The bard is a perfect example, the bard has the Cure spells that no other arcane caster has and the norm is that it is a divine spell, but not for the bard, it is an arcane spell.

This is really up to your GM. Since item creation requires die rolling to actually make them, with the possibility of failure.

There is no definitive rule but I don't think you should really be penalized for taking those feats, so I personally would, as a GM, rule yes you can.

After looking at some interesting variants from old Dragon issues, I happened to stumble upon a monk that does not need to be lawful. It seems the Flurry of Blows works off of a strange mechanic, and I'm not quite sure if it would be balanced to use in game. Their FoB is roll 1d4 -1, that is how many extra attacks you get for taking a -2 on every attack roll made. It progresses as you gain levels of course, but since Pathfinder ruled that FoB now acts as a free Two Weapon Fighting for monks, I was wondering how to go about using this mechanic; my embodiment of chaos would love this.

Battledancer/Chaos Monk/Barbarian/Tempest

I figure TWF wouldn't stack with the new FoB. But I was also wondering, would a sane DM allow a monk to take Two Weapon Defense without monk weapons? While not quite realistic, I could see a monk slapping a greatsword away.

My second question was regarding the removal of turning/rebuking/destroying/controlling undead. I was hoping to see if someone has thought about adding it back into the system to see if it would throw off balance, a character I've used has had implications of being controlled by an evil cleric to do really bad things.

1: I would have it work the same as the monk works now. Change the Flailing Strike (FoB) to allow for the 1d4-1 (improvements at later level) like normal. Change the alignment to any Chaotic. Change the abilities accordingly (not much really changed). And call it a Chaos Monk (or something else to that effect).

2: Turning/Rebuking was not removed from the game. They are now feats that improve the channel ability. So all you have to do is spend a feat to gain the ability to use it again.

Interesting Post Wolfman & Twilight

Thats true. I didn't really think that was a problem. I was just trying to give an option to allow for more eidolons while still allowing for the customization.

Instead of having them have set levels you could have something like this:

You gain an eidolon at 1st, 4rd, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th. (or something like that)

Each eidolon starts at a HD equal to 1/2 the level in which you get them (min 1) rounded down.

At each summoner level (except when you gain a new eidolon) you can increase the HD (max 15) of 1 of your summons. This way you choose which eidolon to increase the level of but you have a limited number of increases.

So as a summoner I could gain a lvl 1 Shiva and at 2nd level I can increase her lvl by 1, same with lvl 3. Now at lvl 4 I gain a lvl 2 Ramuh but don't get to increase any of my eidolons lvls.

That way it makes them summon something and it is not the same as any other wizard/druid/etc that specializes in summoning. Make them more unique and more interesting. Give them all 9 LVLs of the summon spells as spells, but make them able to summon eidolons through a SLA and have multiple eidolons.

Summons in FFX were customizable, too. Not to the extent that Eidolons are, but you could raise their stats and give them extra abilities.

Thats right, I forgot about X. I personally like the idea of having multiple eidolons rather than one. I say get completely rid of the summoning SLA and make it so the summoner can summon multiple eidolons.

I was think the Eidolons would be pre-stated out; the player gets no say in how the Eidolon's EP is spent (much the same way FF Summons are not customizable).

I figured that a 1st level summon would 'level up' so to speak for two levels, and then it never levels again.

But you are right, your bullet list is really the issues I want to deal with.

Thats not completely true. The summons (GFs) from FF8 kind of had some customization. They were the ones that leveled and learned abilities that would be equipped to the characters that had them equipped. Kind of the same with the summons of FF6.

[note: I've changed references to "Pathfinder Modern" to the publisher's new working title "Cinematic Adventures," as the name "Pathfinder Modern" is not compliant with the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License.]

Thank you. I did not know of this change in title. I like the name. Cinematic Adventures, it has a nice ring to it.

Well they are all sci fi, but if you mean futuristic then the reason being that I am a fan of Star Wars and already have those rules, so I didn't really want to do anything to futuristic. But if someone has a good futuristic idea then I am all ears.

I am going to be play testing these rules with a group and am thinking about the setting, and I want some impute from those that find the modern setting interesting. Here are my ideas:

1 - Resident Evil: Zombies, zombies, zombies, and some other monsters. I was thinking of having the characters play through the mansion of the original RE game. This would include zombies (all three incarnations normal, spitters, and crimson heads), lickers, hunters, cerberus, snakes, spiders, bees, moths, plants, and of course the Tyrant.

2 - Bioshock: Splicers, Eve, Adam, Little Sisters, and Big Daddies. I was thinking of having the characters be citizens of Rapture and going through the civil war. With the new Bioshock 2 Multiplayer as kind of an example of what would be going on, except the players would be together going through the events leading up to the first game (at least my rendition of what happened).

3 - Men in Black: Aliens, secret agents, and black suits. This one is simple, the characters are members of a secret organization that deals with aliens and their going ons. This one would feature homebrew aliens (modeled after already created monsters and such) and probably a world threatening event.

4 - Heroes: People, super powers, and Sylar. This one would just be everyone being a special (or not, their choice) and having to deal with the events of Volume 4 Fugitives. The powers would probably just be spells from the core (modified if necessary) that are usable with a concentration check. The abilities would increase with level and would just be greater versions (or related) spells.

5 - Other: Suggestions, suggestions, suggestions. Give me a suggestion or idea for an interesting setting. This can really be anything, as long as it is set in a modernistic setting. I do want to use the Modern Beta rules.

Overall I am partial to choices 1 and 4, but am open to just about anything. I am just asking for help to make a decision, there are just so many, and want to know what people would like to play.

I personally am a fan of Steampunk and love it in my D&D, Pathfinder, etc. games. I think it adds a lot more flavor to game and allows for things like pirates, mad scientists, and snipers. I just treat them like crossbows, for everything (including reload times) except that they have a 20 x3 critical and that they are all simple (exotic if in an area that really doesn't know what they are) weapons.
Hand Crossbow = Pistol
Light Crossbow = Musket
Heavy Crossbow = Rifle
I have never had an issue with them, no one has ever been more powerful than anyone else. I don't think firearms need to be something all powerful, people just want them so they can make swashbucklers, pirates, snipers, etc. not to become these great warrior of black powder.

I don't see why people have issues with firearms in any form of fantasy, even high fantasy. Why can't the guns just be magical by nature. Instead of this huge scientific thing that is really complex and hard to deal with, manufacture, and use have them just be crossbows that shoot sling bullets with magic.

I think people who try to over complicate something in a world were dragons and trolls exist are just silly. Why couldn't a gun exist when there are vials of napalm (Alchemist Fire), flamethrowers (burning hands), and missile launchers (magic missiles) floating around, among other things.

Yeah, that is were we differ. I always see Artificers not as magic item crafter's, since they don't actually get spells, but as scientists who emulate spells through science and technology. They make flamethrowers that mimic Burning Hands, they make missile launcher shoulder pads that mimic Magic Missiles.

I can't speak on the adventure path, but here is a general discussion on the 'need' for healing in D&D. Hope it helps you make your decision easier.

A Players Guide to Healing wrote:

*SNIP*

...

The only issue is that most of this is not Pathfinder, so if the OP doesn't want to include any of the 3.5e supplements that myriad the post then just about everything you listed is null and void.

I do agree that a wand of CLW is worth more than any potions you get or really any other items that heal, but since wands require a DC 20 to anyone who doesn't have the spell on their list (1st LVL Cleric, Druid, and Bard, or 4th LVL Paladin and Ranger) at 1st level it could be a little more difficult.

Rogue and Sorcerer both have UMD as a class skill so they get the +3 but everyone else would only have a 1 + Cha Mod. So even with a 16 CHA the character would only have a +4 (+7 if Class Skill), that is a 20% (35% if Class Skill) chance of success, per Standard action that the person is using, to use the wand at 1st level. Since it takes the one using the wand to use it as a standard action you might as well have someone who has the spell on their list (or a good Cleric) which is 100% chance of success as well. Now a potion has a 100% chance of success no matter who uses it.

So until someone gets a higher UMD skill the wand isn't really a viable choice (Unless someone is a Cleric, Druid, or Bard [with CLW on his list]).

This is just my opinion on healing and by no means condone the use of a healer or lack there of. Anyone can really be a healer and no class is specific to that role, some are just better than others.

OK, so based off of that once they reach 5th level they can make Gauntlets, Wands, or Goggles of Fireball that work 4 times per day (plus more with a Use Magic Device check), and can make many of these items. That just doesn't seem right. Everyone in the party can just start letting off Fireballs with this method as if they were a Wizard of equal level and more often than a Wizard could.

I never stated that the Artificer was the only one who could use the items I just said that the table limits the number of items that the Artificer can have at any one time.

From what I have read the Artificer is Int based on all of its "spells" and the weird sciences are not prepared or known, they are items that the Artificer creates at the beginning of the day (kind of like preparing) and the number on the chart tells how many spells of what level those items can mimic.

So if the chart said 1 first level and 1 second level then the artificer can have one item that mimics a first level spell when activated and one item that mimics a second level spell when activated, or one item that when activated mimics the first and second level spell at the same time.

Example: 1st level spell could be Shoulder Pads of Magic Missile and 2nd level spell could be a Helm of Detect Thoughts. Or you could make Goggles of True Strike and See Invisibility, this item taking both the 1st and 2nd level spell slots.

The artificer can get a little confusing, but it really works like a wizard that can mimic spells through items.

So I did the math for the d8 + d10 method and here are the chances of each roll:

2 - 1/80 or 1% or .0125
3 - 2/80 or 2% or .025
4 - 3/80 or 4% or .0375
5 - 4/80 or 5% or .05
6 - 5/80 or 6% or .0625
7 - 6/80 or 8% or .075
8 - 7/80 or 9% or .0875
9 - 8/80 or 10% or .1
10 - 8/80 or 10% or .1
11 - 8/80 or 10% or .1
12 - 7/80 or 9% or .0875
13 - 6/80 or 8% or .075
14 - 5/80 or 6% or .0625
15 - 4/80 or 5% or .05
16 - 3/80 or 4% or .0375
17 - 2/80 or 2% or .025
18 - 1/80 or 1% or .0125

Yeah, make it so that classes that are similar and don't work together really well at the ends, and the classes that work with everything in the middle.

You could always just roll a d8 and a d10 to determine the classes. This produces a number between 2-18 (This covers all of the classes) and allow for a single re-roll.

And maybe allow a player the choice of re-rolling all if a role is not filled by anyone

As I stated, it was not RAW or official, just how I thought about the base forms. I never said that what I said was the way it was, just how I see the base forms being applied with different evolutions.

Also Crocs and Alligators both can climb, though not commonly (since food comes to the water). They have been known to climb trees to get to food that tried to get away.

I know that this is not RAW or by no means official, but you could think about it this way.

If you start with a serpent and add legs they would be more like the legs of a salamander (the animal not magical creature) and could you see a salamander raking or pouncing? I can't really, they may have legs but they are shorter and not as strong as those of a dog or large cat, which is what I see the quadruped as.

Take this how you want but this is how I see it as.

I have always ruled it as some kind of force damage. I see it as creating a minor explosive force between the target and wielder of the weapon.

By 5th level a wizard can throw a fireball that does 5d6 (5-30) damage to everything in a 20 foot blast.

I do not see the problem.

Actually Fireball is a 20 ft. radius which is a 40 ft. blast. Radius means that it extends that length on each side of the origin.

Also cleave and vital strike work as standard actions (as part of the attack action) and spring attack just lets you move, make a standard action, and move again. (up to a total of your base land speed) I don't see a problem with using it as it was meant to be used.

It is a well known fact that bonuses and penalties of the same type do not stack. The Evil Eye hex from RAW can not target AC twice to double the penalty but if the duration is long enough it should be able to target AC once and Attacks once, and unless stated otherwise it should be fine to do this. Normal circumstances say that if they only wanted a target to only be effected once they would have stated: A target may only have a single Evil Eye active at any one time, or No more than one Evil Eye hex can affect a single target at any one time, and Any new Evil Eye hex supersedes any old ones and the new penalty and duration take precedence.

Cackle (Su): A witch can cackle madly as a move action.
Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the
effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune
hex, misfortune hex, or ward hex caused by the witch has
the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

If this was meant to affect only one creature or only one hex it would say so, instead of any it would say any one or a single creature, and it would say withing 30 ft. that is under the effects of any one of the following.

This is very clear on what it does and how it works.

Being able to turn someone into a newt is enough for me. (He got better.)

I love this reference. BURN THE WITCH

So this is how a Witch with Evil Eye and Cackle could do her thing:

Round 1:
Standard - Evil Eye (Saving Throws)
Move - Cackle

Round 2:
Standard - Evil Eye (Attacks)
Move - Cackle

Round 3:
Standard - Evil Eye (AC)
Move - Cackle

Round 4:
Standard - Evil Eye (Skill Checks)
Move - Cackle

Round 5:
Standard - Evil Eye (Ability Checks)
Move - Cackle

Round 6+:
Move - Cackle

From the beginning the target starts to take the -2 (-4 if 8th or higher) to Saving Throws for a minimum of 1 round which is extended to 2 rounds because of Cackle. (Note that if they pass the saving throw the target has the penalty till the Witch's next turn since that is one full round)

From here on out each of the stats are decreased and continue to remain decreased until they either move out of 30 ft. for long enough for the duration of each to expire or kill the Witch. (which is what having a fighter or other tank in front of you is for)

Then once all of the stats are decreased the Witch only needs to maintain it with a move action each round.

Overall this is a really nice use of the abilities but the penalties are not that big (compared to some spells) and they would take a while for them to get going (if you wanted to penalize everything instead of just a single stat or two) per opponent.

I agree that they shouldn't stack, I don't think that a classes weakness should be almost completely negated without needing to expend any real resource. If you want a fighters will to be higher take Iron Will as a feat.

Well the judgement that adds to attack rolls also adds to CMB since all combat maneuvers are attacks, and also it almost negates the negative for dealing nonlethal damage at low levels and at 10th negates it and still adds more to attack. (Of course this is after a couple of rounds but it still does it)

Well RAW just states that you have to touch them and as is the case of a monk's unarmed combat you can use any body part (within reason) to attack or touch the target. So if the caster wants to deliver the spell (or ability) through a kiss (or more "romantic" methods) or a kick I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to, and who knows it could add more flavor to that caster if they started to deliver their spells in different ways than most people.

Say that every time the female elf cleric casts a cure spell they give a kiss on the cheek of the target to deliver the spell.

If it to much of an issue switch to a lighter armor. Once your Dex overcomes the amount of armor that the armor provides armor is no longer useful in situations like that (other than FF AC)

I am having the same problems. And I am using Adobe. The A in the class names are missing.

Don't get me wrong I think it should be a class skill as well. I was just saying that as is it is not unreachable.

Well you should also note that all creatures have a natural armor. Just those that don't have it mentioned have a +0 NA, like humans, elves, dwarves, etc. Spells like Barkskin show what I mean.

Don't forget that in Pathfinder anyone can put ranks into any skill, it being a class skill just gives the +3 training bonus. I agree that it seems like a skill they would have training in but don't forget anyone can learn languages for just putting ranks into it even if it is not a class skill.

Xaaon of Korvosa wrote:

Santiago Mendez wrote:

You know what I think, I think that the Summoner shouldn't gain any of the summon spells as spells. They should gain them only as Spell Like Abilities, have the summons have max HP and maybe gain improvements on them later like bonus Str, Dex, Con, AC, DR, Fast Healing, or something of the like. I just don't see why they need the spells and spell like abilities, when the spell like abilities are better and if you gave them some more improvements beyond the faster casting and longer duration it would make it unique and something that you would want to do.

I agree, Have them as SLAs, then tack on bonuses to make them "THE" summoners" I like that.

Take the Augment Summoning feat from PF Core. Voila.

Yeah, I was thinking of going even farther possibly, with DR, Fast Healing, Energy Resistance or Immunity, etc. Just making it so that the Eidolon isn't the only summon that the summoner gets thats powerful or worth noting. As is stands SPA Summons are no more powerful than the Spell Summons just that they last longer, and I think that they should be differentiated more.

Yeah, the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting has rules on firearms as well, then there are other d20 books that have rules on firearms like Legend and Lair's Sorcerery and Steam and the Iron Kingdom books are just examples. But Tome of Secrets and Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting are more geared towards Pathfinder so those might be more of what you are looking for.