UPDATE - A few simple Corrections


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest

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Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Hey there all,

I am making a few small changes to the classes that were rereleased on Monday, February 1st to correct a number of issues. To help ease the download rush, here are the exact changes.

Pg 6: The grand mutagen ability was changed so that is provides an alchemical bonus, not an enhancement bonus.

Pg 7: The sticky bomb discovery was changed. On the round after a direct hit it now deals damage equal to its splash. It does not repeat the full damage.

Pg 13: All three of the Order of the Sword abilities were altered. By My Honor now forces the cavalier to pick an alignment. As long as he keeps that alignment, he receives a +2 morale bonus to a saving throw of his choice. The first sentence of Mounted Mastery was changed to allow the cavalier to ignore the ACP for Ride skill checks, no matter what creature he is riding. Finally, Knight's Challenge now allows the cavalier to add his Cha bonus to attack and damage rolls and gives him a +4 circumstance bonus on crit confirmation rolls against the target of his knight's challenge.

Pg 25: Spontaneous Symbology lets an oracle use her available slots to cast symbol spells, even if she does not know them.

Pg 35: The location of the Ability Score Increases on the eidolon's chart were changed to arrive at every 4 HD. Improved Evasion was dropped down one level.

Pg 36: The text of the claws evolution was changed to allow one set of claws to be placed on a limbs (legs) evolution. The rest must go on arms.

Pg 40: Notes were added to the Large evolution concerning reach. A Large biped eidolon gets reach 10 feet. All Huge eidolons get reach 10 feet.

That is all aside from a few page reference fixes. If you have already printed this, substituting out the above pages should bring you up to date.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Has the PDF been updated with these changes already, or is this all we're getting?


Shisumo wrote:
Has the PDF been updated with these changes already, or is this all we're getting?

To quote Mr. Bulmahn: "To help ease the download rush, here are the exact changes."

I'd say that means they updated the PDF. Given the slow speed at which my copy is currently downloading I'd say a number of other people have come to the same conclusion :)

We'll see...

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

I did indeed make changes to the pdf.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Just Downloaded it. No update.

So a huge bipedal eidolon has 10' reach same as large? I wish you guys would be consistent with your rules. Summoner class has enuff odd rules already...


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm also running into the issue where the PDF isn't updating. My copy was still personalized from earlier today and telling it to re-personalize didn't appear to change anything. I'm guessing that it's an issue that the personalization server has an old copy cached somewhere that it's continuing to use.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Pg 25: Spontaneous Symbology lets an oracle use her available slots to cast symbol spells, even if she does not know them.

Because the Oracle isn't a Prepared Caster in the first place?

Quote:
Pg 36: The text of the claws evolution was changed to allow one set of claws to be placed on a limbs (legs) evolution. The rest must go on arms.

Is this meant to be a Quadruped-only change, or can Bipeds also take Claws on their Legs?

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Hmm... I am at home now and it is possible the file did not get switched today. I will check it in the morning.

Sorry folks...

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hmm... I am at home now and it is possible the file did not get switched today. I will check it in the morning.

Sorry folks...

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

It happens. I thought I brought a pile of work home today. Seems I managed to leave the text I needed in my classroom. Mixed feelings about that :D

And thanks for the update and info. It is appreciated.


Where the changes to the Summoner's spell list intended? They seem like an unnecesary nerf and a reduction of the class to Eidolon buffer.

Humbly,
Yawar

Shadow Lodge

YawarFiesta wrote:

Where the changes to the Summoner's spell list intended? They seem like an unnecesary nerf and a reduction of the class to Eidolon buffer.

Humbly,
Yawar

I agree, is the Eidolon still so awesome you had to nerf the Summoner's spell list? It looks like a step toward the "They'll just play the Eidolon more anyway" stuff I saw people complaing about in several threads.

Overall though, the classes are amazing and I can't wait to playtest the new Alchemist!


Dragonborn3 wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:

Where the changes to the Summoner's spell list intended? They seem like an unnecesary nerf and a reduction of the class to Eidolon buffer.

Humbly,
Yawar

I agree, is the Eidolon still so awesome you had to nerf the Summoner's spell list? It looks like a step toward the "They'll just play the Eidolon more anyway" stuff I saw people complaing about in several threads.

Overall though, the classes are amazing and I can't wait to playtest the new Alchemist!

Yep, those alchemical bomuses and 10 extra discoveries really improved the class. The only thing that kills me is that the it should have had, from my perspective, some early entries in in the polymorph elixirs.

Humbly,
Yawar


is the true mutagen ability still enhancement bonus or is it alchemical like all the other mutagen abilities?


I hear around the forum cooler that there are alot of questions surrounding Witch Hexes, are those going to get clarified (most specifically "Evil Eye")?


Huzzah!

Thank you Jason! :)

-S

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

The PDF has now been updated. (If the file shows that it has already been personalized, you'll need to repersonalize it before you can download the new version.)


Will you be fixing the Cavalier's mount? As of now if a 20th level Cavalier loses his mount, his new mount will never get access to the evasion, etc abilities.

Why does it take longer for a 15th level cavalier's (months to reach level 16) mount to reorient (regain its SU abilities) than a level 4 cavalier?

Shadow Lodge

Xaaon of Korvosa wrote:

Will you be fixing the Cavalier's mount? As of now if a 20th level Cavalier loses his mount, his new mount will never get access to the evasion, etc abilities.

Why does it take longer for a 15th level cavalier's (months to reach level 16) mount to reorient (regain its SU abilities) than a level 4 cavalier?

And will you give him back his old list of mounts he can choose from?


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there all,

Pg 6: The grand mutagen ability was changed so that is provides an alchemical bonus, not an enhancement bonus.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I posted this before the update but it looks like it was still missed:

"True Mutagen: The alchemist’s mutagen now grants a +8
bonus to his natural armor score and a +6 enhancement
bonus to his Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution"

Not only does it still provide an enhancement bonus instead of alchemical bonus like the rest. But it also looks like its providing the numbers from before the update, it seems with the current scheme it should provide +8 alchemical bonus, also it should clear like the rest of the mutagen discoveries do about minus to other stats, because as its worded it seems like it would provide no minus, to int, wis, or cha.


Draajen wrote:

I posted this before the update but it looks like it was still missed:

"True Mutagen: The alchemist’s mutagen now grants a +8
bonus to his natural armor score and a +6 enhancement
bonus to his Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution"

Not only does it still provide an enhancement bonus instead of alchemical bonus like the rest. But it also looks like its providing the numbers from before the update, it seems with the current scheme it should provide +8 alchemical bonus, also it should clear like the rest of the mutagen discoveries do about minus to other stats, because as its worded it seems like it would provide no minus, to int, wis, or cha.

Exactly, True Mutagen provides +6 to ALL physical stats (as opposed to the descending bonuses of the lesser versions) and doesn't hurt your mental stats, which makes it considerably better than Greater Mutagen.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Draajen wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there all,

Pg 6: The grand mutagen ability was changed so that is provides an alchemical bonus, not an enhancement bonus.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I posted this before the update but it looks like it was still missed:

"True Mutagen: The alchemist’s mutagen now grants a +8
bonus to his natural armor score and a +6 enhancement
bonus to his Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution"

Not only does it still provide an enhancement bonus instead of alchemical bonus like the rest. But it also looks like its providing the numbers from before the update, it seems with the current scheme it should provide +8 alchemical bonus, also it should clear like the rest of the mutagen discoveries do about minus to other stats, because as its worded it seems like it would provide no minus, to int, wis, or cha.

Grr... I missed the True Mutagen Bit...

This should provide a +8 alchemical bonus to all physical ability scores, along with a -2 to all mental ability scores.

That is all for now.. I hope.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Looks like I was wrong. >_>


Is it just my pdf or do all of them have errors in the names of the classes. at the very beginning of the description of the classes the titles are:

THE LCHEMIST
C V LIER
OR CLE

Although I might be interested in seeing what a C V Lier is, and the L Chemist could be exactly what the class is, i'm not sure this is what you want it to say.
it looks like the spell lists have the same problem.


Eric Stipe wrote:

Is it just my pdf or do all of them have errors in the names of the classes. at the very beginning of the description of the classes the titles are:

THE LCHEMIST
C V LIER
OR CLE

Although I might be interested in seeing what a C V Lier is, and the L Chemist could be exactly what the class is, i'm not sure this is what you want it to say.
it looks like the spell lists have the same problem.

Certain PDF readers (Foxit?) don't like displaying the capital letter "A".


hogarth wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:

Is it just my pdf or do all of them have errors in the names of the classes. at the very beginning of the description of the classes the titles are:

THE LCHEMIST
C V LIER
OR CLE

Although I might be interested in seeing what a C V Lier is, and the L Chemist could be exactly what the class is, i'm not sure this is what you want it to say.
it looks like the spell lists have the same problem.

Certain PDF readers (Foxit?) don't like printing the capital letter "A".

Update Foxit, they fixed their printing issues with the last update.

Liberty's Edge

So with the few "Quirks" of the revised PDF, will there be a version 3.0 of this PDF that has been corrected?

Aside from that... the new classes are looking great!
Keep up the great work all.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cartigan wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:

Is it just my pdf or do all of them have errors in the names of the classes. at the very beginning of the description of the classes the titles are:

THE LCHEMIST
C V LIER
OR CLE

Although I might be interested in seeing what a C V Lier is, and the L Chemist could be exactly what the class is, i'm not sure this is what you want it to say.
it looks like the spell lists have the same problem.

Certain PDF readers (Foxit?) don't like printing the capital letter "A".
Update Foxit, they fixed their printing issues with the last update.

The only PDF viewer I know of for which the answer *isn't* "update your PDF viewer" is Preview under OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Until Apple gets around to fixing the bug, the answer for those folks is "use Adobe Reader instead of Preview."

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I noticed that Preview does not like the new final version PDF. It takes forever to scroll through it. It's weird because the old 2 class ones are nice and smooth.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:


The only PDF viewer I know of for which the answer *isn't* "update your PDF viewer" is Preview under OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Until Apple gets around to fixing the bug, the answer for those folks is "use Adobe Reader instead of Preview."

I know I know I've been harping on this in threads all over the place, but, if a someone were to volunteer to update the font to shift all the glyph indices by 1 so there is no glyph at ID0 would there be an unreasonable amount of effort to republish the PDFs?


Turns out it is just me.... again. OK, Thanks for the help!!! :)


Eric Stipe wrote:
Turns out it is just me.... again. OK, Thanks for the help!!! :)

Don't feel bad Eric, I have the same issue running version 9.3.0 of Adobe Reader, and there doesn't appear to be any more updates.

Lantern Lodge

I am having the same problems. And I am using Adobe. The A in the class names are missing.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Galnörag wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:


The only PDF viewer I know of for which the answer *isn't* "update your PDF viewer" is Preview under OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Until Apple gets around to fixing the bug, the answer for those folks is "use Adobe Reader instead of Preview."
I know I know I've been harping on this in threads all over the place, but, if a someone were to volunteer to update the font to shift all the glyph indices by 1 so there is no glyph at ID0 would there be an unreasonable amount of effort to republish the PDFs?

Unless somebody has a tool that could modify the font embedded in the PDF directly, yes, there would be a crazy amount of effort involved. Hours per, and that doesn't even include remaking any changes to the bookmarks.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Black Harlequin wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:
Turns out it is just me.... again. OK, Thanks for the help!!! :)
Don't feel bad Eric, I have the same issue running version 9.3.0 of Adobe Reader, and there doesn't appear to be any more updates.

This is new to me. I see that 9.3 came out about two weeks ago... do you now have the problem with older Paizo PDFs that worked fine under the previous version of Reader?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One question. It says the Alchemist has a range of 20ft with his bombs. Is that Max range, or range increment?


Vic Wertz wrote:
Black Harlequin wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:
Turns out it is just me.... again. OK, Thanks for the help!!! :)
Don't feel bad Eric, I have the same issue running version 9.3.0 of Adobe Reader, and there doesn't appear to be any more updates.
This is new to me. I see that 9.3 came out about two weeks ago... do you now have the problem with older Paizo PDFs that worked fine under the previous version of Reader?

The main rulebook looks fine, and the Cavalier/Oracle preview look fine. Using Win 7, I can mouse over the Cav/Oracle preview and the new page, and they look nearly identical, except that the a's in Cavalier disappear in the new version. The other A's disappear as well in the new pdf, not just in Cavalier, I just used it for primary testing.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

nevermind, I found the answer in an earlier thread.

but might want to fix the text on that one.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Black Harlequin wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Black Harlequin wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:
Turns out it is just me.... again. OK, Thanks for the help!!! :)
Don't feel bad Eric, I have the same issue running version 9.3.0 of Adobe Reader, and there doesn't appear to be any more updates.
This is new to me. I see that 9.3 came out about two weeks ago... do you now have the problem with older Paizo PDFs that worked fine under the previous version of Reader?
The main rulebook looks fine, and the Cavalier/Oracle preview look fine. Using Win 7, I can mouse over the Cav/Oracle preview and the new page, and they look nearly identical, except that the a's in Cavalier disappear in the new version. The other A's disappear as well in the new pdf, not just in Cavalier, I just used it for primary testing.

So they're visible until you mouseover? Do they print?


Vic Wertz wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:

Is it just my pdf or do all of them have errors in the names of the classes. at the very beginning of the description of the classes the titles are:

THE LCHEMIST
C V LIER
OR CLE

Although I might be interested in seeing what a C V Lier is, and the L Chemist could be exactly what the class is, i'm not sure this is what you want it to say.
it looks like the spell lists have the same problem.

Certain PDF readers (Foxit?) don't like printing the capital letter "A".
Update Foxit, they fixed their printing issues with the last update.
The only PDF viewer I know of for which the answer *isn't* "update your PDF viewer" is Preview under OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Until Apple gets around to fixing the bug, the answer for those folks is "use Adobe Reader instead of Preview."

Everything Adobe makes is bloated and bug ridden. Especially Reader.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Black Harlequin wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Black Harlequin wrote:
Eric Stipe wrote:
Turns out it is just me.... again. OK, Thanks for the help!!! :)
Don't feel bad Eric, I have the same issue running version 9.3.0 of Adobe Reader, and there doesn't appear to be any more updates.
This is new to me. I see that 9.3 came out about two weeks ago... do you now have the problem with older Paizo PDFs that worked fine under the previous version of Reader?
The main rulebook looks fine, and the Cavalier/Oracle preview look fine. Using Win 7, I can mouse over the Cav/Oracle preview and the new page, and they look nearly identical, except that the a's in Cavalier disappear in the new version. The other A's disappear as well in the new pdf, not just in Cavalier, I just used it for primary testing.
So they're visible until you mouseover? Do they print?

Sorry, that was unclear. By mousing over, I mean back and forth between viewing the original Cav/Oracle document, and the new one with all the classes. In the new one, the A's are always missing. The A's are present in the initial 6 class document as well.

I tried copy/paste and the characters in those spots don't exist.

I'm also running Adobe 8.2 at home on a Vista machine, and 9.3 on a Win 7 machine and have the same issue with the new file. The APG playtest before the recent fixes worked fine on both machines.


Now Im glad I havent updated adobe yet. I figure if it's running fine, why update? whew


I'm having the same problem with the missing 'A's. Acrobat Pro 6 (yes I know it's old) and only on the updated APG final playtest. All others work fine. Also getting a message that the NexusSansOT embedded font cannot be extracted (and is being replaced in all the tables by dots). Again, only on the updated APG final playtest pdf. I'm wondering if it might be corrupt embedded fonts.


Freesword wrote:
I'm having the same problem with the missing 'A's. Acrobat Pro 6 (yes I know it's old) and only on the updated APG final playtest. All others work fine. Also getting a message that the NexusSansOT embedded font cannot be extracted (and is being replaced in all the tables by dots). Again, only on the updated APG final playtest pdf. I'm wondering if it might be corrupt embedded fonts.

+1

Warning sign from Adobe when opening the PDF:
"Cannot extract the embedded font 'RZXACS+NexusSansOT-Bold. Some characters may not display or print correctly. "

I use Windows XP anad Adope pro 7. I have not the latest update. Only on the updated APG final playtest pdf have this problem.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

I'll look into this tomorrow.

Dark Archive

Black Harlequin wrote:

The APG playtest before the recent fixes worked fine on both machines.

Ditto. Windows 7, Adobe Reader 9.


Just a little more feedback for you on this. The first version of the final playtest is fine, it only seems to be the revised version of it that has the A's missing. For me, the A's are missing in the name of each class where it is the header of a new section, but no other A's are missing anywhere else in the document. I am using XP Pro and Adobe Reader 9.3.0.148 and I am not getting any error messages.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Just a little more feedback for you on this. The first version of the final playtest is fine, it only seems to be the revised version of it that has the A's missing. For me, the A's are missing in the name of each class where it is the header of a new section, but no other A's are missing anywhere else in the document. I am using XP Pro and Adobe Reader 9.3.0.148 and I am not getting any error messages.

Same here with Vista Ultimate and Adobe Reader 9.3...


I'm currently using Adobe Reader 8.2.0 (I know, it's a bit old, but my philosophy with software is: if it works, better stay with old products) on Windows XP SP3; the Final version released 2 days ago hadn't any problem, while the version 2.0 (with the last erratas, like page references, erratas regarding Mutagens granting alchemical bonuses instead of enhancement bonuses and so on) has the problems with the missing 'A's.

The funny thing is, not all capital 'A's are missing, only those of a particular font. For example, on page 8, the introduction of the Cavalier class reads
"C V LIER:
While many warriors strive to perfect their art, spending all of their time honing their skill at martial arms, (...)"
while the header of the table above (1-1) reads CAVALIER without any errors.

Same for the Alchemist; on page 2 the introduction of the class reads
"THE LCHEMIST
Whether secreted away in a smoky basement laboratory or gleefully experimenting in a well-respected school of magic, (...)"
while all along the rest of the description, the capital 'A's are visible (like in 'Alchemy (Su): Alchemists are not only masters of creating mundane alchemical (...)'), and they again disappear in the spell lists on page 49, where all the capital 'A's from the particular font of the headers are missing (for example, I can visualize the 'A's from the spell lists - Aid, Alter Self, Arcane Sight... - , but not from the headers, where I only see ' lchemist Formulae', '1-st level lchemist Formulae', and so on).


The Wraith wrote:

I'm currently using Adobe Reader 8.2.0 (I know, it's a bit old, but my philosophy with software is: if it works, better stay with old products)

Off-topic - but that is generally REALLY stupid. Especially with bloated and buggy software like Adbobe's that is SERIOUSLY prone to malware/virus attacks.

The A's for the table header were NOT missing (Alchemist, Cavalier, Oracle, etc), and those seemed to be the same font to me, but maybe not.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zark wrote:
Freesword wrote:
I'm having the same problem with the missing 'A's. Acrobat Pro 6 (yes I know it's old) and only on the updated APG final playtest. All others work fine. Also getting a message that the NexusSansOT embedded font cannot be extracted (and is being replaced in all the tables by dots). Again, only on the updated APG final playtest pdf. I'm wondering if it might be corrupt embedded fonts.

+1

Warning sign from Adobe when opening the PDF:
"Cannot extract the embedded font 'RZXACS+NexusSansOT-Bold. Some characters may not display or print correctly. "

I use Windows XP anad Adope pro 7. I have not the latest update. Only on the updated APG final playtest pdf have this problem.

Good so it is not just me with the error...Thought my copy of Adobe was acting up.

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