Ryze Kuja's page

If Toppling Metamagic was meant to only affect instantaneous spells, then it would say so.

Apocalyptic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spell becomes infused with the devastating horror personified by the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, temporarily transforming reality into a treacherous ruin.

Benefit(s): You can alter a spell with an area of effect and a duration of instantaneous to become an apocalyptic spell.

When you cast the spell, the area affected by the spell’s instantaneous effect becomes ruined and devastated in appearance. All surfaces in the area are treated as difficult terrain, and Climb, Fly, and Swim checks attempted in the area take a penalty equal to the spell’s original spell level.

The difficult terrain and skill penalties last for a number of rounds equal to the spell’s original spell level. An apocalyptic spell gains the evil descriptor.

An apocalyptic spell uses a spell slot 1 level higher than the spell’s normal spell level. Spells with the good descriptor can’t be apocalyptic spells.

Centered Spell (Metamagic)

You can make a spell explode around you, leaving a safe zone for yourself at the center of the blast.

Prerequisite(s): Spellcraft 3 ranks.

Benefit(s): You can center the area of a spell with an area effect and duration of instantaneous on you, and exclude yourself from the effects of the spell. Your familiar (if any) is also excluded from the effect, provided that it is in your square and at least one size category smaller than you.

A centered spell does not use up a higher-level spell slot than the spell’s actual level.

Lingering Spell (Metamagic)

Your spell clings to existence, slowly fading from the world.

Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn. Those already in the area suffer no additional harm, but other creatures or objects entering the area are subject to its effects. A lingering spell with a visual manifestation obscures vision, providing concealment (20% miss chance) beyond 5 feet and total concealment (50% miss chance) beyond 20 feet.

Level Increase: +1 (a lingering spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

You don't cast a Touch spell on others, you cast it on yourself, and then go touch something later.

For example, if I cast Rime Frostbite and attempt to touch a target and roll a nat 1 and miss, what happens? Does the spell get expended or does the spell stay active on the wizard until he touches a target? Answer: The Touch Spell stays active on the Wizard until he successfully touches something. Right? So, you cast a Touch spell on yourself, not on another target. And then you go touch another target to discharge the spell.

You could cast a touch spell on yourself at 8:00am and not touch anything until Noon, and the touch spell would still be active until you touched something at Noon. A touch spell stays active on you INDEFINITELY until you touch something. So, you cast Touch spells on YOURSELF, and then go touch something later.

If I'm a level 20 wizard and I cast a Rime Frostbite, the next 20 targets that I touch get Entangled from the Rime Metamagic whenever I cause Cold damage. It's a touch spell that stays active on the wizard for a total of 20 different touch attacks.

In the exact same way, I'm casting a Toppling Telekinetic Strikes spell on myself, and it would cause the next 20 minutes-worth of unarmed strikes to cause a Trip whenever I cause force damage.

Do a Wile E. Coyote character with a Reincarnated Druid, and then die horribly once a week :)

Mummer's Ruff would be good for a concept char like this.

Badge of Veiled Authority might be kinda fun too.

There are Metamagic Feats that specifically only work with spells that are Instantaneous, and it calls that out as a specific rule in the Metamagic Feat. Toppling Spell doesn't make this designation for instantaneous spells. It just says any spell with the [force] descriptor.

In the case of Telekinetic Strikes, the spell causes force damage, not bludgeoning damage. So the spell is definitely causing damage, and therefore satisfies this clause: "If the target takes damage, fails its saving throw, or is moved by your force spell".

Reddit Discussion

^----- Here's some people saying that Toppling Spell works with Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Ally, and Toppling makes Floating Disk cause a Trip with the Force Check CMB check to bull rush.

"Destroy yourself" is ordering an attack from one of your allies on it and it breaks the spell as soon as it tries to obey it.

^---- I'm agreement with this right here. Ordering a skeleton to harm itself (or ordering a skeleton to harm another skeleton) satisfies the "Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the commanded undead (regardless of its Intelligence) breaks the spell." variable, and would break the spell.

Ryze Kuja wrote:

@ Diego and Azothath

Do you think that Frostbite is a valid spell for Rime Metamagic?

Rime spell works with Frostbite.

It is a completely different spell. It is instantaneous and damages the target. A touch B, B is damaged.

Telekinetic Strikes: A touch B, B hands, or natural attacks, are enhanced. B strikes C with the enhanced hands and damages it.
Toppling spells requirement: A spell targets B and damages it is not fulfilled.

Does Toppling Spell say that only instantaneous Force spells are affected?

Or does it say any spell with the Force Descriptor?

@ Diego and Azothath

Do you think that Frostbite is a valid spell for Rime Metamagic?

Frostbite

School transmutation [cold]; Level bloodrager 1, druid 1, magus 1, shaman 1, witch 1

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range touch
Targets creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION

Your melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of nonlethal cold damage + 1 point per level, and the target is fatigued. The fatigued condition ends when the target recovers from the nonlethal damage. This spell cannot make a creature exhausted even if it is already fatigued. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.

Rime Spell (Metamagic)

Creatures damaged by your spells with the cold descriptor become entangled.

Benefit: The frost of your cold spell clings to the target, impeding it for a short time. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell.

This feat only affects spells with the cold descriptor.

Level Increase: +1 (a rime spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

Telekinetic Strikes

School evocation [force]; Level magus 2, psychic 2, sorcerer/ wizard 2

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range touch
Target one creature
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

DESCRIPTION

The touched creature’s limbs are charged with telekinetic force.

For the duration of the spell, the target’s unarmed attacks or natural weapons deal an additional 1d4 points of force damage on each successful unarmed melee attack.

Toppling Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells with the force descriptor knock the affected creatures prone.

Benefit: The impact of your force spell is strong enough to knock the target prone. If the target takes damage, fails its saving throw, or is moved by your force spell, make a trip check against the target, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, Intelligence for wizards, and so on). This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the check fails, the target cannot attempt to trip you or the force effect in response.

A toppling spell only affects spells with the force descriptor.

Level Increase: +1 (a toppling spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

==================================================================== =======

Is Telekinetic Strikes a valid target for the metamagic Toppling Spell?

Yes, you may prepare a Toppling Telekinetic Strikes spell.

If it is, how does it interact with making multiple natural attacks?

You can make a Trip attempt every time you cause force damage with unarmed attacks or natural weapons.

My perfect world involves multiple trips in a turn (similar but different circumstances to the question asked about MM and the same metamagic)

Perfectly kosher, provided multiple attacks that round are successful, you could have multiple trip attempts. I'm sure you already know this but I'm going to say it for the benefit of those who might not, but you can't trip a target that is already prone. So, you would have multiple trip attempts per round, but you'd stop making trip attempts once you have your first successful trip attempt and knock the target prone.

RotR is a pretty melee-heavy campaign that is full of giants who hit really, really hard and have massive 15ft and 20ft AoO reaches, and my group didn't have a ton of crowd control, so it was pretty brutal in some fights.

If you want to be a full divine caster, I'd strongly recommend going with a Shaman and taking the Wings (take Wings x2), Misfortune, and Slumber hexes, and eventually pick up a Rod of Abrupt Hexes for Swift Action: Misfortune----> Standard Action: Slumber Hex or some other Save or Die hex/spell. Crowd Control is really important, and Slumber is a fantastic CC spell that will scale well all game.

Wings Hex is going to be a godsend for your survivability because of the generous amount of melee enemies throughout the campaign. As early as level 8, you'll have eight 1-minute increment uses of Wings Hex and you'll have about 4-5 encounters per day, so you could be flying in every combat encounter of the day and still have some leftover uses.

Shamans are sort of a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none style of caster, but this is actually the strength of the class: massive amounts of utility. There aren't very many situations/problems that a Shaman can't outright solve immediately, or at least reduce/mitigate the difficulty of the problem. They have a fantastic spell list too, heals, buffs, debuffs, nukes, CC, condition removal, ability score restoration, resurrection, just about anything you need.

Another good reason to go Shaman is the roleplaying potential. Without giving any spoilers, I'm just going to say that you're going to have some unique and rewarding roleplaying opportunities if you're in-tune or have some relationship with spirits, especially in the final chapter.

Nvm, found one: Make Lost

Make Lost

School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 2, druid 2, ranger 1

CASTING

Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION

You strip the targets of their senses of direction and recent memories of travel. They immediately forget the route they took in the last hour (but not details of encounters along the way) and become lost.

Lost Passage

Lost Passage (Samsaran)

School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 4, mesmerist 3, psychic 4, sorcerer/wizard 4

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area one 30-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw Will partial; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION

Creatures in the area of this spell are subject to a subtle enchantment that confounds their senses of direction, interferes with recognizing landmarks, and causes them to misjudge distances and angles. Creatures that enter the area must succeed at a new Survival check to avoid becoming lost immediately, whether or not they succeed at their saving throws. Those that fail the save take a penalty on such Survival checks equal to double your caster level, treat all squares they enter as difficult terrain for as long as they are in the area and for 1 hour per caster level thereafter, lose the benefit of all effects that allow them to ignore difficult terrain, and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity.

Lost passage can be made permanent with permanency at a cost of 10,000 gp.

I don't think that there is a spell that targets a single creature though.

Familiars are completely mundane creatures that become magically enhanced through a special magical bond with their master, granting them all the ability score bonuses and special abilities we've all come to know and love. So familiars are very much magically-enhanced creatures, and that magic never ends even if the master dies; for example, if a Wizard dies and the familiar survives, the familiar still retains all of its magically enhanced ability scores and languages known.

So, if you abandon a familiar for a new one, that familiar would retain all of its magical enhancements like increased Int, any known spoken languages or sign languages, HD, HP, Saves, Skills, Improved Evasion, Spell Resistance, but it would lose the ones that directly include/require the Master, such as Empathetic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, etc..

This is actually a really good idea for a story hook tbh... PC's meet an abandoned, distraught familiar and the ex-familiar wants.... vengeance? to re-unite? find a new master?

The big question here would be what do you consider a campaign wrecker?
Do you consider things that do not fit in the setting (or at least the GM's current plan for the game) but would not be mechanically a problem to be campaign-wreckers?

Honestly that is entirely up to the GM as to what they would consider a "campaign wrecker". Personally, I would consider a Deck of Many Things as THE ultimate campaign wrecker, but as far as other items, it would be a case-by-case basis.

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Here's what I'm getting: the only reason to ban/restrict crafting is to benefit the GM. Maybe it's a "playstyle" that the GM gets to decide whatever items the PCs are worthy of having; maybe they're trying to protect game balance or force PCs to accept McGuffin quests they have planned so that the plot stays on their track. Maybe the GM just doesn't enjoy Downtime scenes/scenarios or doesn't want to detour their plots for lengthy crafting times. Whatever the case, the only real reason to remove the crafting is b/c the GM doesn't like it.

Fine. This isn't MY cup of tea but at least most of respondents in this thread say that they tell their players these things up front. Chell's post in this thread however brings up the concern I have; when GM's run games based mostly on their own whims vs those of their players, there is the temptation to derail previously established crafting capabilities for the sake of the GM and nothing more.

That is... frustrating.

Tbh, I find the compulsion for a GM to ban crafting or certain items to take away from the PC's experience. There are some items that are absolute campaign wreckers though, so I understand why GM's would ban things like Deck of Many Things and other similar items. But if it's not a "campaign-wrecker", it should be available.

Here's my thing R to the K: unless my players are absolute total noobs, they likely know some items like the Deck of Many Things are campaign-wreckers. If they still want them... its' EVERYONE'S campaign to wreck, including theirs. If the players are nihilists or shenanigan-types that just want to see the campaign world burn, let 'em.

There is NO story I've ever written for any of my home games that is so sacred and sacrosanct that it should be considered completely immune from player devastation. Period. Now again, as HR upthread says, this type of playstyle isn't for everyone and I don't expect everyone to get on board with me. At the end of the day...

Personally, I don't ban things very often, if at all. I even play with all 3pp content so that the PC's can achieve exactly what they want with their character. If a PC is still not happy with the available content, then we start custom-creating items/feats/classes/archetypes, whatever you want. And yeah, if they get super powerful for their level, then that's when I just scale up the encounters. Combat Manager is a godsend for this style of play because as the GM you can choose a level 8 mook and then add templates, HD, and beef up their CR to 21 in less than 30 seconds. Just add water and presto, you've got an encounter.

The Deck of Many Things isn't banned at my table, but I might disallow the PC's to get one until certain milestones in a campaign are met though. That way if they want to wreck the campaign, at least I got what I needed.

Whenever I GM, we play in my homebrew world, and I'm very much of the philosophy of "build something so that way you can destroy it". The world is a sandbox and everything in it are just sand castles waiting to be destroyed; I encourage my PC's to destroy my world on purpose, so honestly the Deck of Many Things hasn't ever *needed* to come into play to sate the PC's desire to destroy stuff or introduce chaos to the world. My PC's have even destroyed/dislodged entire continents, and I even helped them plan how to do it :P

Here's what I'm getting: the only reason to ban/restrict crafting is to benefit the GM. Maybe it's a "playstyle" that the GM gets to decide whatever items the PCs are worthy of having; maybe they're trying to protect game balance or force PCs to accept McGuffin quests they have planned so that the plot stays on their track. Maybe the GM just doesn't enjoy Downtime scenes/scenarios or doesn't want to detour their plots for lengthy crafting times. Whatever the case, the only real reason to remove the crafting is b/c the GM doesn't like it.

Fine. This isn't MY cup of tea but at least most of respondents in this thread say that they tell their players these things up front. Chell's post in this thread however brings up the concern I have; when GM's run games based mostly on their own whims vs those of their players, there is the temptation to derail previously established crafting capabilities for the sake of the GM and nothing more.

That is... frustrating.

Tbh, I find the compulsion for a GM to ban crafting or certain items to take away from the PC's experience. There are some items that are absolute campaign wreckers though, so I understand why GM's would ban things like Deck of Many Things and other similar items. But if it's not a "campaign-wrecker", it should be available.

Combat Manager is my go-to resource for generating NPC's. You can essentially select just about any creature/NPC from the bestiary, level them up, add HD, whatever templates you want (like half-dragon, half-celestial/fiend, w/e). And then I use Fantasy Name Generators to name them.

I like it. I would consider a different name for the spell though, as to truly differentiate it from the Cleric Spell. Maybe something like: Interdiction, Prohibition, or Disallowance. And 6 hours seems like a really long cast time. I would drop that to 1 minute or 10 minutes.

I would also include some verbiage about allowing the caster's allies to use a password when they enter the area, or by uttering the password at the time of casting a teleport spell that would allow them to teleport inside/outside of the spell's effect.

I typically start campaigns at level 3. Honestly the only reason to start at level 1 is to acclimate a newbie to the game or to increase the difficulty for veterans looking for a low-level challenge.

Step 1: Take Craft (Siege Weapons)

Step 2: Make a Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal -sized Catapult, Ballista, Cannon, or other siege weapon of your choice

Step 3: Cast Shrink Item to reduce its size by 4 sizes for 1day/level, and then carry it around in your pocket or a small cart (depending on whether it's Medium, Small, or Tiny -sized once it's been shrunk).

Step 4: Pull out a lawn chair and some popcorn, drop the Shrink Item spell, and fire the Siege Weapon at the enemy who you think probably has the most loot.

I think the best way to force enemies to attack you is to simply present them with only a single target that they can attack and this can be achieved with good positioning. The best way to do this via choke points and using terrain to your advantage.

But there will be plenty of times where you find yourself in a open battlefield without a lot of advantageous terrain, so that's when Enlarge Person, Reach Weapon &/or Combat Patrol + Combat Reflexes + Stand Still, and/or having your party wizard use Pit/Wall spells to create your own barriers/chokepoints, etc, can determine whether the party ends the fight with minor bruises and scratches or being out of spells/abilities and needing a visit to Ye Olde General Hospital.

Antagonize can be helpful, but it takes a Standard Action and only affects a single target. Frankly, there's probably better uses for your Standard Actions.

Honestly it comes down to a combination of your party working together to make the battlefield smaller and you being the combatant that can't be ignored.

Dreamscarred Press incorporated Sonic into almost every Energy spell as a legit damage type and even gave it some utility for being able to ignore hardness when targeting objects, but that doesn't really help PFS because they're 3pp.

Examples: Energy Ray, Energy Cone

Action

Varies. Handling an animal is a move action, while “pushing” an animal is a full-round action. (A druid or ranger can handle her animal companion as a free action or push it as a move action.) For tasks with specific time frames noted above, you must spend half this time (at the rate of 3 hours per day per animal being handled) working toward completion of the task before you attempt the Handle Animal check. If the check fails, your attempt to teach, rear, or train the animal fails and you need not complete the teaching, rearing, or training time. If the check succeeds, you must invest the remainder of the time to complete the teaching, rearing, or training. If the time is interrupted or the task is not followed through to completion, the attempt to teach, rear, or train the animal automatically fails.
Retry?

Yes, except for rearing an animal.
Modifiers

Low Intelligence Non-Animals You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do.
Animal Companions A druid or ranger gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Handle Animal checks involving her animal companion. In addition, a druid’s or ranger’s animal companion knows one or more bonus tricks, which don’t count against the normal limit on tricks known and don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks to teach.

Special

Untrained If you have no ranks in Handle Animal, you can use a Charisma check to handle and push domestic animals, but you can’t teach, rear, or train animals. A druid or ranger with no ranks in Handle Animal can use a Charisma check to handle and push her animal companion, but she can’t teach, rear, or train other non-domestic animals.

An animal doesn't need to be domesticated in order to teach it tricks, but you do need a minimum of 1 rank in Handle Animal though.

Hmmmm. Five bucks is certainly reasonable, though I'm usually adverse to spending money on anything "frivolous" for myself. Will Combat Manager actually let me build characters inside of it, or is it just for tracking information I plug in?

It should be free, unless they recently started charging a fee I'm unaware of. As far as building characters inside of it and saving them, I'm not sure, I've never tried. I usually build whatever character that I need, then copy/paste it over to an excel document that I use for my Campaign File, and then build a new creature, then copy/paste that one over as well. Rinse Lather repeat until I have all the monsters/npc's I need for an encounter.

The first time you make your first monster, it's going to take you a little while to get used to all the options/templates you can add, but once you build about 10-20 characters, you're going to be building these characters in 30-45 seconds. It's so easy and fast that you can come up with an entirely random encounter in 5 mins or less, even in the middle of sesh.

Happy International GM's Day

Hey all, today is March 4th, International GM's Day. Please celebrate accordingly. Today is the anniversary of Gary Gygax's death, and the official day that is celebrated as International GM's day. Gary Gygax, father to us all, died March 4th, 2008. His death was most expected after his two strokes in 2004, but he died in 2008. Honestly, my brethren and sistren, this loss will be felt by all, especially in our generation.

It is only honorable that we pay our respects to this man, but also we honor other GM's around the entire planet who keep his vision alive. This day, Today, is for ALL GM's who have ever served, and for all GM's currently serving, as well as all GM's who will be serving in the future.

RIP Gary Gygax, you've inspired millions. And the millions more will continue to inspire more.

Thank you so much.

Your GM can't really through throw Equal Level CR monsters at a Gestalt party, they'll get curbstomped.

Curse you, auto-correct. Should be "throw equal level CR monsters".

I get what you're saying, but we're already in local investigations, and at level 2. 2 re-recruitments later, gestalt became an option for us remaining 3. Plus personal background wise, dear (adoption) mother is a prominent inquisitor, and raised her to become one as well. She aims to become her mother's equal in efficiency.

The 'something specific' idea was to be an efficient archer with solid investigation and social skills.

But Zen archer/monk is a good backup, things considered, should it come to an untimely demise.

If you're already level 2 in the campaign, you certainly have plenty of levels to correct your planned build. And even if you've already made a mistake, then fine, you can retrain; that's what gold is for. And if it really comes down to it, fine, reroll your character into something that you would like.

In Gestalt campaigns, you primarily want to focus on defense rather than offense. Don't get me wrong, offense is important, it is SUPER important, because if things aren't dying then you have problems, but the more important issue is that you don't want to be knocked out of a fight. Defense is crucial. The damage will come eventually. It's like Sylvester Stallone says in Rocky, it's not about how hard you hit, it's about how many hits you can take and still keep moving forward.

==========================

Anywho, let's talk about your Inquisitor side of things. Let's take the backstory of your character out of this for a moment (because you *can* reroll). Is there a really significant reason why you're going Inquisitor for this other than backstory? Inquisitor is a great class on its own, but it's not ideal for the challenges that you're going to face in a Gestalt Campaign if you pair it with a 4/4 martial class. Tbh, the main draw to go Inquisitor is for stuff like Monster Lore, Judgments, Cunning Initiative, Detect Alignment, and on-demand Bane, and of course the skills, but the skills you can gain from Inquisitor aren't anything you couldn't also gain from any other 6+Int skills class like Ranger/Slayer. If this Inquisitor class is so important for your character that it's a "non-negotiable" for you, then you might pursue Inquisitor20 + any 9/9 spellcasting class, because Inquisitors have 3/4 BAB and a crapton of skills, 6th level spells, and Fort/Will +12 save progression, and this is all really GOOD stuff. But you'd be infinitely better off going Inquisitor20 + any 9/9 spellcasting class that can give you a thousand Quickened True Strikes per day. True Strike is on the Inquisitor spell list sure, but you want to be doing these True Strikes for as many hits as possible throughout the day because APL+8=CR monsters have pretty high AC, and you only have 3/4 BAB; your iterative attacks are going to suck, quite frankly. You'll probably want to be burning your Quickened True Strikes on your Iterative attacks, tbqf. And let's be frankly further, as an Archer, you should absolutely want to be 4/4 BAB and try to get as many full attack actions as possible, and relying upon Quickened True Strike to land Iteratives isn't ideal.

Okay, so now let's bring your backstory back into this: what if your mother was an Inquisitor and you highly aspire to become "better" than she was, and rather than taking the path of the Inquisitor class to do this, you took a 9/9 divine spellcasting class like Cleric or Oracle, but also choose a 4/4 BAB class for the Archery side of things. Now this makes you either a Wis- or Cha-focused character, with a mostly-major dependence upon Dex to hit. In Gestalt, you want to get as many skills/abilities/spells focused upon 1 or 2 attributes as possible, but you also want to make sure that the two classes you've chosen don't conflict with one another for Action Economy. But you still want high level spells and at proper progression as well. Gestalt is a nice complicated mess, for sure.

Anywho, here's what I'd suggest:

Inquisitor20 / Cleric20 (Destruction or Luck domains), focus on lots of Quickened True Strikes per day, Reflex Save is lacking so boost it with High Dex and probably a Ring of Evasion

Ranger20 / Cleric20 - solid all around, Wis for Spells, 4/9 and 9/9 spells, Dex for AC/Attack, 3 strong saves

ZenArcher Monk20 / Cleric20 - All 3 Saves are strong, lots of attacks, plenty of survivability, 9/9 spells

Ranger, ZenArcher, or Inquisitor20 / Sorcerer20 (Empyreal Bloodline)

What about Zen archer 5/inquisitor x, + Ranger on the other half?

The last book of the AP is for lvl 15 characters, after all.

Typically when you do Gestalt characters, you're going to want to pick one class that is a 4/4 BAB d10HP martial and a 2nd class that is a level 9 spellcaster, and between the two classes try to get +12 progression on all 3 saves. And if you deviate from this recipe, have a really good reason why-- like you're building for something specific, and nets you a greater benefit than not getting 9th level spells and 4/4 BAB.

Gestalt campaigns are high-powered and get rocket-taggy real fast, even as early as level 1. As a GM, challenging a group of gestalts is difficult, so any monsters you face from the Bestiary will be APL+3=CR to APL+8=CR, and any named NPC/BBEGs are going to be Gestalt monstrosities custom-created by your DM to kill and maim you guys. Your GM can't really through Equal Level CR monsters at a Gestalt party, they'll get curbstomped. By level 10-12, you'll be facing level 16 to level 20 monsters that can 1-2 shot you, either through straight up damage or Save or Die effects. Having Good/Decent AC and Saves in Gestalt is the same as having Bad AC/Saves, because if you get hit even once, then you're out of the fight-- if you survive the hit, you have to gtfo and heal because the next hit is going to kill you. Maximized Disintegrates that deal 40d6 damage (unrolled 240 damage), Empowered Dazing Fireballs that Daze for 3 rounds on a failed Save, and 20d10 breath weapons are certainly on the table of possibilities. So here's the point: either put your Armor Class and Saving Throws in the clouds or don't even bother, figure out a different way to negate the damage/spells, like via Mirror Image, Protection from Energy, and Displacement.

The issue that I see with going Zen Archer5/Inquisitor15/Ranger20 is that you're only getting 15 levels of a 6/9 spellcasting class and then you're also taking 5 levels and 20 levels of a 4/4 BAB Martial class. I'm not trying to crap on your concept, but when it comes down to it, mechanically speaking you're basically a 4/4 Martial with level 5 spells at level 20. Tbh, I would either pick Zen Archer or Ranger, not both. And if you're truly married to Inquisitor, then take all 20 levels, not 15 levels. I would go ZenArcher20 / Inquisitor20, or Ranger20 / Inquisitor20. I would still advise against taking Inquisitor here (unless you're building for something specific), and instead take a 9/9 spellcasting class.

Ryze Kuja wrote:

EldritchArcher20 / Wizard20, Slayer20 / Arcanist20, or ZenArcher20 / Cleric20 would be solid choices.

My favorite Eldritch Archer gestalt is:

Eldritch Archer Magus 20/
Grenadier Alchemist 20

All good saves, and a ton of skills. Alchemy and 6/9 arcane prepared spellcasting means there is always something you can do to contribute. You have Alchemical Weapon and Arcane Pool and Bombs... always a way for you to pull your weight in combat. There is even a certain level of sharing spells between Alchemist formula books and Magus spellbooks...

Your typical Sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice Half-Orc with Fate's Favored and a HornBow can do god's work.

Beastly :)

I'm in agreement with the others, you have to be standing to Mount (or Fast Mount). While it doesn't explicitly say that you must be standing to perform a Fast Mount in the rules, it is certainly implied that you cannot do this while prone.

I'm all for Rule of Cool though, so if you have a Dex of 20+ then you're pretty much an Olympic gymnast, so I'll certainly let you roll for it with probably a +10 to the DC. If you're in medium or heavy armor, I probably would add an additional +5 / +10 to the DC. To quote Matt Mercer, "you can certainly try."

EldritchArcher20 / Wizard20, Slayer20 / Arcanist20, or ZenArcher20 / Cleric20 would be solid choices.

Get Combat Manager. You can create NPC's and monsters in 30sec to 3-5 mins, depending on how many you need. And then you can instantly level them up, add HD, templates, etc., whatever you need to customize the monster/NPC.

Fantasy Name Generators is a great site for naming them if they're going to stick around for a while.

You should probably get both, tbh. Enemies immune to fear will be a problem if you don't have Greater Invisibility. But you don't want to be Invisible vs. enemies that you're trying to fear.

If you have a Ring of Invisibility, you can switch between Invis/visible at-will (as a Standard Action tho).

This is an interesting build, have to consider it for my next character.

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Also, if you don't have a Wand of Greater Invisibility by now, get one. Greater Invisibility is +40 Stealth while not moving, +20 Stealth while moving, and doesn't drop if you attack something like normal Invisibility does.

If you are invisible the Dazzling display bomb will not work.

Dazzling Display wrote:

Make an Intimidate check to demoralize all foes within 30 feet who can see your display.

That's a good point. Maybe instead of Greater Invisibility, get a Ring of Invisibility that you can turn on as a Standard Action. That way your Invisibility drops the second you Sneak Attack and just before your Dazzling Display goes off, and then you can Hellcat Stealth to re-enter stealth, and then Invis again (if you want to).

None of you are the proverbial a-holes, unless you guys took any of what transpired personally irl. Tbh, it sounds like all of you RP'ed your characters exactly as you should have.

Trash talk them. It is a free action to tell 'Yo mama' jokes.

"Yo momma loves 4e!"

*crowd gasps*

Thanks, but no I've never used it before :P I've come up with similar builds before but they're always different each time, it just depends on what kind of concept character the OP is looking for :P You said you wanted a scary reaper who would show up, fear everyone, kill the frightened/cowering, and disappear, rinse lather repeat, so that's just where I went with your concept :P

Shake it off immediately comes to mind. Either talk your party into taking this teamwork feat, or take levels in Cavalier so you can give it to your allies.

If you're allowed to use 3rd party content, there are some pretty spiffy Psionic powers that allow you to make saves for allies, like Psychic Bodyguard and Metaconcert.

At level 16, your WBL is 315,000gp, and you should have a Belt of Strength +6 and Headband of Charisma +6 and put your +1 Attributes from lvl 4, 8, 12, and 16 in Strength. So you should have a Strength of 30, and a Charisma of 20.

Belt of Str +6: 36,000gp
Headband of Cha +6: 36,000gp
+5 Cruel Weapon: 72,000gp
+5 Ominous Weapon: 72,000gp
Boots of Speed: 12,000gp
Ring of Chameleon Power: 10,000gp
Wand of Greater Invisibility: 21,000gp

= 259,000gp

Leaving you 56,000gp for other various items and adventuring expenses.

Intimidate should be: 16SkillRanks + 5Cha + 10Str + 6SkillFocus + 5OminousEnchant = +42 to Intimidate vs. 10 + your level + target's Wis = approximately DC 26 +/- 5ish

Stealth should be: 16SkillRanks + 1Dex + 10RingOfChameleonPower + 6SkillFocus + 1-4ChildOfTheMoonTrait + 20-40GreaterInvis = +54-57 while moving, +74-77 while not moving, and -10 if actively viewed vs. whatever their Perception is.

Your Full Round Attack should be: 16BAB + 1WeaponFocus + 4StudiedTarget +5WeaponEnchant +10StrMod +1Haste -2TWF: +35/+35/+35/+30/+30/+25/+25/+20, -4 instead of -2 if you're using 1-handed instead of Light, +2 for Flanking

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Your combats should look something like this:

*Activate Studied Target, use UMD to cast Greater Invisibility and Stealth over to target, activate Haste if needed*

Surprise Round:

1st Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage, Violent Display +42 to Intimidate all enemies within 30ft.
Defeat by 10: Panicked 1 round or Frightened 1d4 rounds.
Defeat by 20: Cowering 1 round or Panicked 1d4 rounds.
Target is now Shakened (at minimum).

2nd Attack from Hellcat Pounce: +35 to hit, on success cause Sickened and Shatter Defenses (target is now Flat-footed).
If you were Invisible for this attack, cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage. If not Invisible, cause weapon damage only.

Round 1:

*Activate Haste as a Free Action if you didn't already*

1st Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage, Violent Display +42 to Intimidate all enemies within 30ft.
All enemies' Fear becomes worsened by 1 step from Disheartening Display (no save).
Defeat by 10: Panicked 1 round or Frightened 1d4 rounds.
Defeat by 20: Cowering 1 round or Panicked 1d4 rounds.

2nd Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

3rd Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

4th Attack: +30 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

5th Attack: +30 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

6th Attack: +25 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

7th Attack: +25 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

8th Attack: +20 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

That's 120d6+120 damage just in SnA damage from the Surprise Round and Round 1, and with average rolls would be roughly 540 SnA damage, not including weapon damage.

Target is most definitely unconscious (or dead), and you gain 5 Temporary HP from Cruel enchant.

After your turn is over, an enemy attacks you with a longbow from 100ft away. He has to guess which square you're actually in, and if he guesses correctly, still has a 50% miss chance. Let's assume he chooses the square correctly and hits you.

Round 2:

As a Move Action while actively viewed (depending on if your GM *would* consider you actively viewed after being hit or not, ymmv), you make a Stealth check with -10 penalty and Move 60ft closer to the enemy who just shot you, with a +44, +45, or +47 Stealth (depending on the Moon Cycle). Don't forget to increase the Archer's Perception DC by 1/10 for every 1 foot they are away from you, and in this case, it would be +10 to his Perception DC for being 100ft from you. If successful, the enemy has no clue where you are.

Use a Swift Action to use Studied Target on the Archer. Use your Standard Action to move up to an additional 60ft and position yourself adjacent to the archer.

Round 3:

1st Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage, Violent Display +42 to Intimidate all enemies within 30ft.
Defeat by 10: Panicked 1 round or Frightened 1d4 rounds.
Defeat by 20: Cowering 1 round or Panicked 1d4 rounds.
Archer is now Shakened (at minimum).

2nd Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.
Archer is now Sickened and Shatter Defenses (Flat-Footed). The archer is already flat-footed to your attacks due to Greater Invisibility.

3rd Attack: +35 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

4th Attack: +30 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

5th Attack: +30 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

6th Attack: +25 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

7th Attack: +25 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

8th Attack: +20 to hit, on success cause weapon damage + 12d6+12 SnA damage.

That's 96d6+96 damage just in SnA damage from the Surprise Round and Round 1, and with average rolls would be roughly 432 SnA damage, not including weapon damage.

=========================================================================== ====

You're going to melt faces bro.

For a "Shock and Awe" Intimidation Slayer with a dash of Grim Reaper flavoring, I would go with a TWF Bludgeoning build that focuses on Stealth, re-stealthing mid-combat, and Fear effects that can worsen to Frightened, Panicked, and Cowering, and relies on non-lethal SnA for damage. (because Sap Master can double your SnA damage whenever you strike non-lethally)

Human Slayer - 25 pt buy : Ambushing/Knockout specialist and Intimidate-focused

20 Str (18 + 2)
12 Dex
11 Con
12 Int
10 Wis
14 Cha

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Traits:

Inspired - Once per day as a free action, roll twice and take the better result on a skill check or ability check. <--- If you REALLY need someone to be Intimidated and think you might miss, use this.

Child of the Moon - Choose either Climb, Stealth, or Swim. You gain a +1 trait bonus on checks made with the chosen skill. On dates during and after the first quarter of a lunar phase but before end of the last quarter (the half of the lunar cycle where the moon is fuller), this bonus increases to +2. During the full moon, this bonus increases to +4. (choose Stealth)

=================================

Alternate Race Traits:

Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.

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Weapons:

Use Two light or 1-handed Bludgeoning weapons of your choice: saps, light flails, warhammers, w/e you want. Saps will be 1d6 damage but only -2 to hit for TWF because they're "Light", Light Flails and Warhammers will be 1d8 damage but they'll be -4 to hit for TWF because they're "1-handed".

If you choose Saps, then you won't need Jaguar's Grace at level 4, but if you choose a Bludgeoning weapon that doesn't have the non-lethal trait, then you will need Jaguar's Grace.

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Feats:

L1: Focused Study: Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Focus

This build is going to start out slow, but it will build into a crescendo between levels 7-10 due to all the mucky-muck we're getting in the first 6 levels. Unfortunately, we actually do need Weapon Focus in this build as a prerequisite for Violent Display at level 7, otherwise we would've gone Menacing for our Ranger Combat Style. It's not a complete loss though, Weapon Focus + Studied Target will make you have a higher Hit chance and offset your TWF penalties. Skill Focus is +3 Intimidate right now, but it becomes +6 to Intimidate at level 10.

L2: Ranger Combat Style: TWF

Even though we only have 12 Dex, you can still take TWF because Ranger Combat Styles can be selected even without meeting prerequisites. During the early levels before you get your Intimidate/Stealth rolling, TWF is going to be doing a lot of your heavy lifting.

L3: Dazzling Display, SnA 1d6

During levels 3-6, you'll probably want to start combat in round 1 with Dazzling Display before wading into melee.

L4: Slayer Talent (Jaguar's Grace)

No more -4 penalty for nonlethal attacks. We're going to need this for Sap Adept/Master later on. And, now you have the option to knock someone out and interrogate them later. Or Coup de Grace them, Death Dealer's choice.

L5: Signature Skill (Intimidate)

In order to Intimidate someone, the DC is 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier, and if you defeat this DC by 10 or more, Signature Skill Intimidate causes them to become Frightened instead of Shaken. If you're fighting equal level creatures, this DC is typically going to be 10 + your level + target's Wis, so right now that would be DC 15 +/- 2ish. At level 10, it's going to be DC 20 +/- 2ish. High Wisdom targets, like clerics/monks/druids, will probably be 10 + your level + 5 or 6. Anywho, your Intimidate should be Your Level (Skill Ranks) + 2Cha + 3/6SkillFocus = +10 Intimidate at level 5, or +18 Intimidate at level 10.

L6: Ranger Combat Style: Improved TWF, 6/6 Human Slayer FCB: Combat Trick: Shatter Defenses, SnA 2d6

Shatter Defenses is crucial for landing Sneak Attacks on your Iterative attacks, as well as debuffing your enemies' AC so that your Iterative attacks have a higher success of landing. Get a Cruel Enchant on at least 1 of your weapons by now, that way you can Sicken any Shakened target for that juicy -4 att/skills/saves/abilchecks. Your party wizard and bard will love you for these debuffed saves. As an added bonus for the Cruel Enchant, you gain 5 Temp HP anytime you cause a target to fall unconscious or kill them.

Round 1: Dazzling Display
Round 2: Go hit a Shakened/Frightened target and Shatter their Defenses to cause SnA

L7: Violent Display

Violent Display: When you land a successful sneak attack or confirm a critical hit against a creature with a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can use Dazzling Display as an immediate action.

Violent Display is a major milestone for this build because now we can use Dazzling Display as an Immediate Action whenever we land a Sneak Attack. So this means you'll be 30ft AoE Shaken/Frightening every single round that you land a Sneak Attack at least once. Now you don't need to start combat in round 1 with Dazzling Display. You can just start combat by stealthing up to a target and SnAing them. From now on until forever, you're basically an AoE Fear Bomb that goes off every round.

Round 1: SnA + Violent Display
Round 2: SnA + Violent Display
Round 3: SnA + Violent Display

L8: Focused Study: Skill Focus (Stealth), Slayer Talent (Fast Stealth)

Save up 12,000gp by this level to buy Boots of Speed for on-demand Haste for 10 rounds per day, and get these boots earlier than this level if possible. Haste is super important for you, so even if you have a party Wizard casting Haste on you, you still want these boots for the times that your Wizard cannot buff you (for w/e reason). Not only does Haste give you an extra attack per round, but it increases your speed by 30ft. With Fast Stealth, you can move 60ft per round WHILE stealthing with no penalty. This is perfect for Ambushing and generating Surprise Rounds for your party. Your ability to Ambush and generate Surprise Rounds will make your party leaps and bounds better via Action Economy.

One major thing that you absolutely need is to be getting as many Full Round Attacks as possible, so this extra 30ft Movement from Haste can certainly help you close the distance and keep you on target for as many rounds as possible.

L9: Feat: Disheartening Display, SnA 3d6

Disheartening Display: When you successfully use Dazzling Display against any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponents, their fear increases by one step. An already panicked creature demoralized by this feat cowers. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again (by you or anyone else) for 24 hours.

Now when you Shaken/Frighten with Violent Display via SnA in Round 1, Disheartening Display will worsen whatever fear effect they had by 1 step in Round 2 as your AoE fear bombs continue to go off. So Shaken becomes Frightened, Frightened becomes Panicked, Panicked becomes Cowering.

L10: Ranger Combat Style: Greater TWF

You should have 10 ranks in Intimidate by now, so Skill Focus Intimidate is now +6 and Signature Skill Intimidate can now cause targets to become Panicked if you defeat their DC by 10. Likewise, you should also have 10 ranks in Stealth by now, so Skill Focus Stealth will also be +6.

L11: Feat: Hellcat Stealth

Here's where Stealth goes into overdrive. Now you can Stealth mid-combat as a Move Action, while actively viewed and even in bright light, albeit at a -10 penalty. Try to make sure you have a Ring of Chameleon Power 10,000g to offset this -10 penalty.

*poof* SnA, *poof* SnA, *poof* SnA is now on the menu.

Also, if you don't have a Wand of Greater Invisibility by now, get one. Greater Invisibility is +40 Stealth while not moving, +20 Stealth while moving, and doesn't drop if you attack something like normal Invisibility does. This is so handy for making your *poof* *poof* *poof* in combat never fail. Additionally, you are very reliant upon Fear effects to force your SnA damage, so if you come across an enemy that is immune to fear, Invisibility will still allow you to SnA because you can ignore their Dex to AC. Having multiple paths to force SnA is important.

L12: Advanced Slayer Talent (Feat): Sap Adept, 6/6 Slayer FCB: Feat: Sap Master, SnA 4d6

This level is a massive boost to damage output, and here's where you become a Knockout Specialist. Your non-lethal SnA is now 8d6+8 damage, and you should have 7 attacks per round with Haste and Greater TWF. So that's a potential 56d6+56 non-lethal damage, not including your weapon damage.

When an enemies' non-lethal damage equals their current HP, they become Staggered. And when their non-lethal damage exceeds their current HP, they're unconscious. And once a creature's non-lethal damage exceeds their Total Maximum HP amount, all non-lethal damage becomes Lethal damage.

Non-lethal doesn't work vs. Undead, Constructs, etc, but it works vs. pretty much everything else. This makes you a knockout specialist. After the fight is over, coups de grace or interrogate them.

L13: Feat (Accomplished Sneak Attacker), SnA 5d6

Your non-lethal SnA is now 10d6+10 damage, and 7 attacks per round. So that's a potential 70d6+70 non-lethal damage, not including your weapon damage.

L14: Advanced Slayer Talent (Feat): Hellcat Pounce

Now you can attack TWICE in the Surprise round.

L15: Feat: Intimidating Prowess, SnA 6d6

Add your Strength Mod to your Intimidates. At level 15, your Signature Skill Intimidate can cause a target to become Cowered (or Panicked for 1d4 rounds, your choice) if you defeat their DC by 20.

Your non-lethal SnA is now 12d6+12 damage, and 7 attacks per round. So that's a potential 84d6+84 non-lethal damage, not including your weapon damage.

L16: Focused Study: Skill Focus (Perception, Survival, or whatever skill you want), Advanced Slayer Talent (Feat): Anything you want

Now you have 8 attacks per round with Haste and your non-lethal SnA is 12d6+12, so that's a potential 96d6+96 non-lethal damage if you hit with all 8 attacks. If all attacks hit, that's an average roll of 432 non-lethal damage.

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Gear/Enchants:

Ring of Chameleon Power

Potions of Greater Heroism

Wand of Greater Invisibility

Cruel and Ominous Enchant for weapon

Belt of Strength

Headband of Charisma

Boots of Speed <---- make these a priority, haste is going to be very critical to your success and I would get these Boots even if you have a friendly neighborhood wizard in your party who can buff you, because what if he can't buff you and you really need Haste like right now right now.

==================================

As far as this build order goes, you can switch and swap around the Intimidate, Stealth, and Non-Lethal SnA feats around all you want (provided you meet the prereq's). If you want better SnA earlier, then just put Sap Adept at level 3 and Sap Master at level 9, or w/e. The order that I put them in is just how I would do it, but feel free to swap these around as you see fit.

Yeah, you're technically not allowed to retrain traits. But there's a loophole, if you take the Feat "Additional Traits" and then select Magical Lineage as one of your traits, you can then retrain the Feat and reselect Magical Lineage using a different spell.

Personally, I allow retraining of traits simply to avoid shenanigans like this.

Improved Dirge of Doom

The foreboding tone of your dirge is especially effective at unsettling your enemies.

Prerequisite(s): Ability to perform dirge of doom.

Benefit: The range of your dirge of doom ability is extended to 60 feet. Additionally, if a creature is shaken from another effect, the effect of your dirge of doom is changed to frightened for that specific creature. This benefit cannot cause a creature to become panicked, even if a target is already frightened from another effect. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.

Normal: The range of dirge of doom is 30 feet. A creature that is already shaken cannot become frightened by dirge of doom.

Greater Dirge of Doom

The haunting sound of sepulchral intonations chills the most stalwart adversary to its very core.

Prerequisite(s): Improved Dirge of Doom, ability to perform dirge of doom.

Benefit: The effect of your dirge of doom lingers with a target for 2 rounds after the creature leaves the dirge’s area of effect. If you use your dirge on a creature that is shaken, it becomes frightened. If you use it on a creature that is frightened, it becomes panicked. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.

Normal: Fear effects on a creature end immediately once it leaves the area of dirge of doom. A fear effect cannot be made more extreme by dirge of doom and can be changed only to the frightened condition by the Improved Dirge of Doom feat.

If you want a supercharged Dirge of Doom, consider getting these feats.

If you want to crank this all up to 11 and break the knob off,

Disheartening Display (Combat)

Your show of prowess further demoralizes others.

Prerequisite(s): Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +6, proficiency with chosen weapon.

Benefit: When you successfully use Dazzling Display against any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponents, their fear increases by one step. An already panicked creature demoralized by this feat cowers. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again (by you or anyone else) for 24 hours.

Level1: Weapon Focus (if human or half-elf, take Skill Focus: Intimidate in addition to Weapon Focus)

Round 1: Dazzling Display, anyone demoralized by 10 or more becomes Frightened (via Signature Skill)
Round 2: Dirge of Doom, anyone shaken becomes frightened, anyone frightened becomes panicked
Round 3: Maintain Dirge of Doom as Free action, Dazzling Display (this time it's Disheartening Display) Frightened becomes Panicked, Panicked becomes Cowering
Round 4: Take a full round action to set up lawn chair and eat popcorn

If Sling is going to be your primary attack, and you're wanting to boost your damage, I'd take Deadly Aim instead of Power Attack. PA is only going to affect your club/dagger/spear, so that's kind of a waste unless that's your primary way of fighting.

Even if you befriend a coven of NPC witches, it's not any more powerful than a PC witch doing the same thing and forming her own coven. Witches who belong to covens usually don't hang out with each other all the time, they typically do their own thing alone by themselves, and then meet up with the other coven members a couple times a year for rituals and blood moons, etc., and maybe some birthday parties :)

There are some covens that hang out with each other on a daily basis but I'd say that's kinda rare. So even if you do have an NPC witch hanging out with you for a particular side quest or short journey, she'd be no more powerful than a Cohort. She probably wouldn't be dragging the other coven members with her.

What about a Slayer with the Sniper and Stygian Slayer Archetypes?

You could get Slayer's Feint, Ranged Feint, and Moonlight Stalker Feint, and then once you're level 7, you should be able to cast Darkness or Obscuring Mist to grant yourself concealment, and with Moonlight Stalker Feint you can Feint as a Swift Action, and with Slayer's Feint, you can use Acrobatics instead of Bluff to Feint.

With the Sniper Archetype, your SnA range is up to your first range increment (100ft with Longbow) rather than just 30ft.

Now just make sure you can get Darkvision from race or items and/or Fogcutting Lenses, and you can Feint as a Swift and get a full attack that all deals SnA vs. any target within 100ft ;)

Sanctify Corpse

School evocation [good]; Level cleric/oracle 1, inquisitor 1, paladin 1, witch 1

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF, M (a pinch of silver dust)

EFFECT

Range touch
Area corpse touched
Duration 24 hours
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION

This spell blesses a corpse with positive energy, preventing it from being turned into an undead creature. Attempts to raise the corpse as an undead automatically fail. If the corpse is of a person slain by a creature that creates undead out of its slain foes (such as a shadow, vampire, or wraith), that effect is delayed until the end of this spell. It is possible to protect a corpse for an extended time by casting this spell each day.

Sanctify corpse can be made permanent with a permanency spell by a caster of 9th level or higher for the cost of 500 gp.

Undead aren't corpses, so they're not a valid target for the spell.

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Anywho, here's my point: we shouldn't be using PF2e mechanics for this. D&D 5e, 3.5e, and 3e glitterdust would all be more applicable to PF1e glitterdust, rather than PF2e glitterdust.

The derailment was inevitable the moment we took the bait of trying to point out that glitterdust is fairly consistent in other versions of the game. It just gives them more material to cherry pick through and reinforce their own interpretation.

Yes, Confirmation Bias was alive and thriving wildly in this thread :P

Elf Divination Wizard.

If 3pp content is allowed, Elan Chaotic Wilder from Dreamscarred Press Psionics.

Aronbar wrote:

That's okay. I've already conceded that it's a RAI vs. RAW issue. (But the Paizo developers do seem to agree with me and fixed the poor wording of the spell.)

The changed how the spell function in PF2 because they also changed how concealed functions in PF2. It's now a 20% miss chance which is much less than it used to be.

I don't agree with your summarization that (for PF1) "the developers agree with you". It's a different edition of the game with lots of vary different mechanics compared to D&D 3.5 or PF1.

I feel like you came here to ask people a question, but in reality you were just looking for yes men to say we agree with your interpretation when the rest of us are saying we don't.

^----- this.

I will plant my flag on the "a -40 stealth penalty is not compatible with concealment" hill.

^---- and this.

In PF2, they came up with all new mechanics for Concealed vs. Hidden vs. Observed vs. Undetected vs. Imprecise Senses.

Concealed is basically Concealment, Hidden is similar to Total Concealment (except you know which square they're in), and Undetected is the strongest form of Concealed, and it is similar to Total Concealment except you have no idea which square they're in, and any checks against them are rolled in secret by the GM.

While Invisible, you're considered Undetected until an enemy's Imprecise Senses can help them "Seek" you and make you merely "Hidden" to them. So in pf2e, Undetected is basically Uber-Concealed. You have literally zero chance to find an Undetected character unless the GM *wants* you to find it. Glitterdust takes Undetected all the way down to Concealed.

Anywho, here's my point: we shouldn't be using PF2e mechanics for this. D&D 5e, 3.5e, and 3e glitterdust would all be more applicable to PF1e glitterdust, rather than PF2e glitterdust.

I think we should be leaning on the intentions listed in D&D 5e Glitterdust because this is what they came up with after the rules of D&D 3.5E Glitterdust were debated ad nauseum, and Pf1e is pretty much a copy/paste of 3.5e.

PF2e is the only iteration of this spell that reduces Invisibility from Total Concealment (50%) to Concealment (20%). They have a whole new mechanic for Concealed vs. Hidden vs. Undetected vs. Observed, etc.