Hello all. I am running a Seven Swords of Sin game, and, as promised, the module's really difficult. The goblins riding dinosaurs smoked the party, killing the armored hulk barbarian in two rounds, and then knocking the cleric unconscious. The rogue and alchemist proceeded to run. The issue here is my players are heavily against optimization and very interested in roleplaying, they don't really enjoy making new characters all the time.
All this to say, I have an unorthodox solution that I thought maybe I could put on the internet to see what people more experienced than myself would think. The solution is... *Drumroll* a time warp.
Basically, every time that the players fail in a room, they, and the room, reset at the door. This is because Tirana's ritual, which by the way is using the unconscious cleric from before as a sacrifice, is, due to her drawing on ancient, incredible power from the past, is causing the disruption. they respawn because a benevolent time traveler who I built as a character a while back is cutting the timelines where they fail. There's also going to be some other vaguely time-warp-based weirdness. (Eg, the aforementioned goblin room has double the enemies, but they're fighting each other.)
This'll also let them do a bit of metagaming and trying out new tactics, because I'm not running this module super seriously, so we'll all still have fun even if they metagame some.
I'm going to try and play up the deja vu sensation that they get upon reentering a room, potentially add some Horror Adventures sanity rules. (Because that would absolutely drive me to madness after a while.)
I'm also planning on preventing the characters from leaving Kaer Maga until they find the source of the time warp and fix it, as they're playing a-holes who'd totally abandon the mission (and have already discussed doing so) if given the option.
Not really too much of a point to sharing all this, but suggestions would be cool and appreciated.
That's fair, and probably easier, but this was actually (in part) suggested by one of my players, and I think it'll be the most fun way to do this. Still, the second opinion is appreciated.
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I use this----^ when customizing encounters and it works out great. If your PC's are struggling with the module's encounters, this tool can be used to calculate an appropriate CR for them. I'd take each encounter that they do and plug in the numbers here and gauge how they did with the encounter, and adjust the future encounters up or down accordingly, and if you're finding that the module's encounters are actually APL+1=CR or APL+2=CR, then try bringing them down to APL=CR or even APL-1=CR, if necessary.
Any encounter that is APL=CR should use about 25% of the party's resources in a given battle, and PC's should have about 3-4 APL=CR encounters per day , so if they're struggling with APL=CR, then try removing one or even two of the monsters/NPC's from the encounter or simply nerf the level of the monsters by -1 and see how they do.
This calculator tool cannot account for everything though, it's just a gauge. Some factors can't be calculated properly due to party composition. For example, if you have a group that doesn't have a lot of Cold damage options and you're facing creatures that are fire-based, they're obviously going to struggle with fire enemies-- similarly, if they're facing enemies that poison, disease, and curse, and if they don't have a lot of condition removal options, they're going to struggle with that as well. Vice-versa, your party might do exceedingly well vs large groups because you have a PC with Cleave-->Improved Cleaving Finish, or if you have a 2handed Paladin and you're facing a lot of undead or evil enemies. This is something the CR calculator cannot gauge, but you as the DM can.
It's a pretty cool tool, but don't rely on it 100% because of the unaccounted variables like these --^.
Oh, thanks! This tool's awesome! I'm planning to customize some of the encounters, so this'll help tons.
There is no conflict between optimization and roleplaying. Even in real life successful people optimize themselves. The doctor who studied his ass off when he was younger so he would have the grades to get into medical school is optimized. The major league sports star that focused his whole life on being the best athlete he can be is optimized. Both of those people focused on a single thing at the expense of other aspect of themselves. So unless your character concept is that you are an incompetent slacker, there is no reason you cannot have a reasonable level of optimization and still roleplay your character. Personally, I don’t see much of a reason to play a character like that. When I play, I want to play a hero not a zero. I want to do incredible things.
Most “dedicated” role-players seem to me to be more of a problem than those that optimize their characters. At least with the optimized character I can count on the fact he can do his job. Optimization can be taken too far, but so can the role-player. When your character cannot do what he is supposed to do because you don’t want to optimize that is a problem. If your character is supposed to be a great swordsman, he should be able to kick ass in a fight. Spending feats to make him better at combat is not being a munchkin; it is building your character according to the actual concept.
I may have miscommunicated that somewhat... A better way to put that would be that they all enjoy playing suboptimal characters, and while we have fun with it much of the time, this module is better suited to more optimized characters. The above is just the way I think we'll all have the most fun. Although, I'd just like to point out I do agree, Mysterious Stranger, there's no conflict between optimization and roleplaying. My players just make actively suboptimal characters for fun.
One other thing you can do is to document your encounters on an excel spreadsheet and then use it as a resource for customizing your monsters. The most important thing to document here is each action that your players use in every given round, how much damage they dealt (if any) with the attack/spell/effect, or whether it was crowd control (how many monsters saved/failed), as well as if there were any environmental factors, such as a Wide-open battlefield, was there a chokepoint that they abused, etc.
This can help you understand your party's average Damage-per-Round, and this affects how many HP you should put on your monsters. If they're lacking in the DPR department and things aren't dying fast enough, then consider dropping the monster's HP or give the encounter a beneficial environmental effect that the players can abuse to their advantage, or w/e you feel is right for the encounter.
After you have about 10-ish encounters documented, that's a reasonable amount of data you can pull from to help you create challenging encounters that won't kill the party.
Last thing, some encounters that you design are going to be a little dicey on purpose, such as BBEG fights, and for these fights, you can incorporate some fun stuff as "contingencies" just in case the PC's start losing. Turn it into a 3-way fight. Mid-fight, a pair of drow assassins swoop in and steal the mcguffin! Oh my, plot twist! The assassins are getting away, meanwhile the BBEG and the party are fighting each other as well as trying to run down the drow! Spice it up even more? The assassins have commandeered a carriage and are now speeding down the crowded street like a bat outta hell while the BBEG and PC's steal some horses from a nearby stable! Now the BBEG is "mostly" distracted and will be spending some of his Action Economy on attacking the drow rather than 100% focused on the PC's, and who doesn't love a good ol' fashioned Indiana Jones chase scene.
Ryze, in keeping with what you said earlier, I'd been thinking about changing the final encounter with Tirana to a cooperative fight against some powerful time based creature that she accidentally summoned with her ritual, or alternatively sought her out because of the power the ritual would grant her. Anyone know of some CR 10-12 time themed monsters to use? Thanks in advance.
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Ryze, in keeping with what you said earlier, I'd been thinking about changing the final encounter with Tirana to a cooperative fight against some powerful time based creature that she accidentally summoned with her ritual, or alternatively sought her out because of the power the ritual would grant her. Anyone know of some CR 10-12 time themed monsters to use? Thanks in advance.
Hey there. I looked at Pathfinderwiki's Dimension of Time page, and in the Denizens list in the sidebar, a couple options stick out:
- Misery Siktempora, which is CR 12- Young Time Dragon, which is CR 11
Also, Hounds of Tindalos, which are only CR 7, are summoned creatures from this demiplane, so maybe multiples of these creatures could suit your need.
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*Eyes widen in wonder and evil delight* I LIKE the Misery Siktempora. That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, thanks so much Andostre!
Happy to help!